hi daniela,

i know exactly what you are talking about. however, you have to understand that when you get a negative reply with the "reason" for not wanting to consider your application, very often this reason is not reflecting the true reason why. but rather, the reason that you would believe !

i have been workig with job seekers and the unemployed for over 7 years in switzerland, and have created over a 1000 cv's and cover letters ( you must have read my profile here on glocals) and i've said this so many times. if you continue to get negative or no replies to your applications, STOP sending them. don't repeat the same mistakes every time. and it appears that with over 200 applications and no or negative replies, you are doing something which is not working.

many job candidates feel they have the skills and qualities needed for the position offered, BUT, if you are not able to communicate this effectively ( that means getting invited for the interview) then you have not achieved your goal.

the BAD news is that nowadays employess are considered as a product, not a person. a product has a value, and is sadly a "bottom line" consideration. the GOOD news is that we know how to market/sell products.

having said this, if you can't effectively sell your product ( YOUR skills and qualities) find someone who can help you create the curiosity and desire to know who/what you are about.

remember, if YOU don't have the desire to invest in yourself.......why would anyone else!

now daniela, you have gone away and learned new skills, surely an investment. now you need to be able to market yourself as the  "new and improved" daniela :-)

Similar problem to Daniela. I agree with what Epicure said it was certainly good advice, but I think there are two extra elements at play: patience and chance. Patience because because even if that right job is out there somewhere in this little, old city you may have to take some time to make the right contacts and know the right people to get it; chance is part and parcel of the patience thing, coz a lot of who you meet is based on luck. Although some people say that you make your own luck...

This is true..but to talk about some feeling or some problems helps sometimes...

Thanks for answer

Daniela

you leaved me without words!!great answer...Thank you very much...:)I will

Daniela

Really the best answer..thank you..:)

Thanks very nice...I'll!

You're right patience et chance...but if there is no chance you can just be patience...if you can..

Then take the short-term jobs. They will greatly help in getting the next full-time job.

this is also right but if you have a house or just if you want to be indipendent I don't think that with a short term job you can, do you? 

maybe...while looking for a job in tourism, think of adding to your skills something very specific most people lack in your industry. for instance u may do a research on the trends in your industry, and find out there are increasingly millionnaires in India or brazil, and so start learning intensively hindi or portuguese, considering they dream of visiting europe (which you already speak 3 major languages). and in the meantime, you can do any kind of part-time job or internship to survive.  

god luck!

The problem is if I don't have the right connections, Ok?

OR by reason of I didn't study in Geneva tourism, but  I did my DELF in French and I had to work to live in Switzerland!

OR just because I come from another country so I’m alone

BUT I show that maybe I did something good : hard working, responsibility, that other people didn't..learn languages French then left to learn English, working, why just because I did various job they consider me not able to do a job in communication or tourism?

I think that potentially anyone could do any job if he just wants..ANY JOB need just practice!!

They are not considering that maybe I could be the perfect candidate, for any company, hotel or travel agent, just because I’m motivated to stay to improve to live my life in Switzerland...I’m flexible because I changed life Country languages friends different times...and just who did it can say how much it is difficult, but my passion for foreign people and foreign country make me stronger  I show my flexibility and motivation that maybe other people doesn't have...

Maybe who can just stay there doesn’t understand how much lucky he is to live in a such Beautiful place.

Daniela

The problem is if I don't have the right connections, Ok?

OR by reason of I didn't study in Geneva tourism, but  I did my DELF in French and I had to work to live in Switzerland!

OR just because I come from another country so I’m alone

BUT I show that maybe I did something good : hard working, responsibility, that other people didn't..learn languages French then left to learn English, working, why just because I did various job they consider me not able to do a job in communication or tourism?

I think that potentially anyone could do any job if he just wants..ANY JOB need just practice!!

They are not considering that maybe I could be the perfect candidate, for any company, hotel or travel agent, just because I’m motivated to stay to improve to live my life in Switzerland...I’m flexible because I changed life Country languages friends different times...and just who did it can say how much it is difficult, but my passion for foreign people and foreign country make me stronger  I show my flexibility and motivation that maybe other people doesn't have...

Maybe who can just stay there doesn’t understand how much lucky he is to live in a such Beautiful place.

Daniela

I don’t agree with epicure  

You can have a perfect profile, two three masters, speak several languages and have valid national and international experience and transmit it well in your application but you may stil not get invited for interviews. Why? Because there are 300 applications for one position and they take only one person: maybe they didn’t even look at all applications, maybe they have a friend who has not as good as a profile as you but has the contact or you may be overqualified and this is the worst qualification today.

I don’t know how it works in tourism. But generally I recommend you not to take it personal when you get negative or no answer. This doesn’t mean that you shouldn’t try to improve your profile and application. What makes you not find a job is not your lack of qualification but the crisis. Try to insist if you afford it, otherwise try to take on any job to pay your life and continue applying every day in your sector.

yes marysol, what you say is very true. but i'm sure you do agree that having a cv and cover letter that makes your profile "stand above the others" is part of the solution. networking is 80% of the issue as well. also, having a personal contact with the HR person or the responsible person for the job selection, BEFORE you send in your cv is another helpful approach.

and yet, after having done all this, you still may not succeed. however, by continuing and being persistent, and having guidance you place the odds more and more in your favor.

and last but not at all least, you must not present a desperate attitude. nobody wants to hire a desperate candidate. it is very difficult indeed, to receive 200 refusals and remain undaunted and positive.

sometimes, marysol, it is necessary to get help from EXPERIENCED and focused trainers in this field to get yourself to achieve your objective. it's like anything else in life. you can't be ALL THINGS ALL THE TIME.  you wouldn't   ( i hope) climb Mt. Blanc without a guide, right?

today so many well qualified people are getting guidance to prepare their cv and cover letter, why would anyone think that they should not also compete at the same level? with the same advantage.

as i mentioned in my earlier text here in the forum, today it's all about "branding" and product ( it's all "bottom line" oriented) so you have to create a desire, a curiosity, a solution for the employers needs. and be able to express this in a cover letter and a cv. if you are an accountant, or a banker or a hairdresser, this expertise is not part of your baggage, and why should it be? get the help you need in today's job searching environment and give yourself the boost you need to play on a "level playing field" .

and lastly, i come back to marysol's statement

" generally I recommend you not to take it personal when you get negative or no answer."

after 200 or more ( i know someone who had 400 ) negative answers, how can you NOT take it personally? we are all human. maybe you have to have had this experience marysol, to understand.

Right...untill you don't feel it you don't understand.

Daniela - there's an English expression "barking up the wrong tree" and that's what you're doing.  You're obviously a very intelligent, motivated person which you've shown by doing a degree and learning another (third!) language (neither of which I could do, so hats off) but if the sector you want to work in isn't hiring.....then you're not going to get hired, however good your CV is and however good your networking is.

It  really is as black and white as that.

Swallow your pride and take your skills and experience to another sector that IS hiring and you may find your luck will change.  Hoping for you :-)

> After issuing 200 CV’s in Switzerland with no luck

200 CVs is nothing.  You need to work much harder than that.

Do you know what is the difference between a loser and a winner?  The loser gets rejected fifty times and then gives up.  The winner gets rejected one thousand times and then wins.

First, start building your network.  Open a profile on LinkedIn, Xing, Viadeo.  Go to conferences, expos, and meetings on your field.  Be truly interested in what you do, and devote some time in training.  Contact other people to make yourself known.  This is extremely important.  Connections bring other connections, and this will 1) let you know about non-advertised job openings and 2) give you an enormous advantage over other faceless candidates.

Second, polish your CV as to convey exactly what you want and what you can give.  Prepare yourself for job interviews.  Be positive, don't be desperate, and show your best image to the recruiter.  You can find plenty of useful tips on the Web, for instance here.

The aim is to be the best possible candidate, to believe you are the best possible candidate, and to present yourself as the best possible candidate.

Everybody that posted here so far gave very good advice.  Start working on this.  Remember, if you don't believe in yourself, nobody is going to do that for you. 

So stop whining, and go back to the fight!

Best wishes of finding your dream job... I know you will.

Hi Carolyn,

I have been thinking about it..

Sometimes I think, if there is a good position ( in which I can be in contact with international people), and they give to me a possibility to work and learn, to start in somewhere, also if it is not really my sector, I'm not saying no thanks..!!I'm not so narrow mind!life is not black or white we have a chance to so many colors:)

But maybe I don't really  know which kind of poste I can do!!if it is not in tourism..I think at sell, communication, events, airport..and I tried in this direction also but  I didn't get a chance to have an offer!!or just a job interiew...

This is hard not even get a chance to explain your reason

thanks for hoping I'll do my best anyway because at the moment the only things I know that I'm going to come back!!soon or later!!

Daniela

Hi Daniela, I know how it feels to get no foot in the door.

If you want to know what other kind of job you could do, you might contact a coach to do a "bilan de compétences". This is to find out all kinds of things that you know how to do (typing, organising conferences, order processing, account openings... etc.) and compare them to all kinds of jobs. At the end, you will get a list of positions/sectors that match your skills. But I have to admit that a coach costs money that you possibly don't have.

You seem to have a lot of qualifications and skills that are needed on the market, so adapt your CV to every job you apply for in order to prove that you are the candidate they want. List in keywords 3 things that you achieved in your last positions AND that your potential employer would be interested in. Quantify it, if you can. (Like: meeting organisation for 300 persons, budget responsability of xxx CHF, managing a team of 5 people, percentage of turnover increase due to your marketing campaign,...). You don't need to give details of jobs that are not relevant of the position you apply for. - Keep in mind that a recruiter takes 10 seconds to look at your CV and make his/her decision. So be short, precise and give evidence that you are the right candidate.

By my own experience I know it's hard, but I wish you good luck!

Hello every one I will be in Geneva for a few days we could organise to meet and talk about this subject what about tomorrow evening in a bar in geneva?

Let me know

Daniela

Everyone want to tell us about his experience during job's research, or also if he is still looking, bring everything could helps cv covering letter etc others people in the same situation. Thanks to replay
The place where we meet will be will be tomottow 20 oct at  the entrence of the FNAC in area RIVE (tram 16 from the train station 18:00pm).

Let me know and Maybe see you there
Daniela

"BUT I show that maybe I did something good : hard working, responsibility, that other people didn't..learn languages French then left to learn English, working, why just because I did various job they consider me not able to do a job in communication or tourism?"

Hi Daniela,

I Can see you are really trying by improving your English, but still you make quite some spelling and grammar errors. If your French is at a similar level and you have nobody to check the applications you send out, you will be rejected every time. Ofcourse the occasional error can be made, but I see quite a few reading your posts. Even having your applications reviewed by someone, they will normally find out during the notice period.

It's nice of everyone to give you all this advice, but I don't understand why no-one has pointed this out to you.

I do ofcourse, wish you all the best in finding a suitable job!

Dani:

If you sent 200 CVs and got zero replies back, then you're doing something wrong. Maybe your CV is not written well enough, maybe you're applying for jobs that you're not qualified to, maybe your cover letter isn't good enough, etc.

I'd expect that if you're applying to the right jobs, and your CV is well written, you'd get atleast some interviews when sending out 200 CVs (even the interviews don't end up with job offers).

I'd suggest you sit with an expert to go over your CV and over the jobs you might be best for, and change something in the job hunt.

Good luck,

Nir

Great answer!

Imagination is more important than knowledge. - Albert Einstein

☁ Beyond the ☁☁ grey clouds and rain, ☁☁☁ don't forget that the sun still shines! ☀

.. or, if you appear overqualified, the CV will usually not be considered for fear, that you will leave quickly for a better job. More training on *your own* time and expense may not always pay off. It can be better to conserve resources and take small jobs to weather the storm.

Have not read all the answers so might be repetitive.

1.  If you want, I can put your cv into correct English. I would not change it or suggest improvements as I am not an expert.  If you wish email me and if it is on word I can correct in 2 or 3 days - no charge

2. Have you thought of Ticino? It is Switzerland. I have just spent a year there and noticed that there is a shortage of English speakers, most people speak French or German.  On the downside the problem there with tourism is that the largest number of visitors are German which I think yo do not have.   once you have a foot in the door and obtain your first permit, it becomes easier to find a job

Hi, I have had very similar experiences and I am very dissillusioned now with Switzerland.

I come from a similar background, having worked as a ski resort manager and cheff in france, I have managed restaurants in the USA as well as London.

the problem I am having is that the Swiss do not recognise Europe and they keep asking me what experience I have in switzerland. I keep telling them that I am Suiss and have just arrived and that  I am looking for experience in Switzerland. but hey do not understand and keep asking where (which Canton) i did my apprenticeship. I keep replying that I have just arrived and they just look at me in a strange way

I am actualy from London but have dual  nationality. I was told it would be easier if I came from Algeria or Portugal with a C permit than if I was actualy Swiss but with no Swiss work history.

Now I am ashamed to be Swiss with their Nazi mentality.

It is an impossible situation and utterly frustrating so I totaly understand your plight. I have now decided to hell with them and have started my own business.

If you or anyone else out there is experiencing the same problems maybe we can all get together and start something ourselves using our combined skills.

My background is in ski resort managment and customer service, catering, chalet managment.

Please let me know what you think

Hello,

a link that might be useful for you:  https://www.antworten.admin.ch/main/fr/fragen/detail/267?iframe&fancybox=true

Good luck.

Cheers,
P.

Likewise I am actively seeking work here in Switzerland and I find that getting a foot in the door here is incredibly difficult.

A lot of what I have read here is true and I have come to the same conclusions myself, but it's good see someone else express the same thoughts.

My frustration is I gave up 2 businesses in Spain to join my partner and kids here in Switzerland. I knew especially as my French was extremely rusty (it's now improving quickly) that I may have some difficulty but seriously I didn't believe it would be this difficult.

While I think my CV is definitely an issue, I am now creating 4 separate versions for day to day applications, I also believe that the agencies here in Switzerland leave something to be desired. After one of the few interviews I have had, which came from a newspaper advert, I discussed the agencies with the interviewer who expressed concern that rather than send 10-20 CV's to the company to choose from they sent 1 or 2 candidates for the post, which isn't really a choice.

I myself have tried to approach some of the agencies for advice regard my CV and where I am going wrong, but I can't even get my foot in the door to speak to any of them! As was mentioned before in this thread - We are products and when ever selling a product you want it displayed in the best way, so agencies please advise your products.

To cover what I do professionally:

I have been working in IT professionally for 14 years, as a CAD 2D/3D draughtsman and designer with AutoCAD and SolidWorks in the UK in a Research and Development department of a Communications company. In Spain until recently I  had my own IT company which included all aspects of IT and Design. Web design was a large part of the business and included SEO and New Media services.

I hold over 15 recognised professional qualifications in a range of IT subjects but focusing on AutoCAD, Programming and Design. My native language is English, I speak Spanish fluently, and before I was fluent in French and it's returning quickly.

I will keep applying and maybe with the advice from this forum hopefully I will soon be back in work.

Cheers,

Chris

I had a b permit but I had to leave it when I went to study English in England... !!But if I found something they give it to me again!

Thanks anyway

Daniela

Go to ask maybe to the

Office cantonal de la population

route de chancy 88

1213 onex

maybe they can give to you some inform about your permit and your possibility in Switz!!

You are really overqualified!!

My God what a bad time...

Guys, I'm sorry you're having no luck but is this not just a case of supply and demand? I arrived three weeks ago, armed with a new qualification to teach the English language, and with my existing CV and skill set as a yoga teacher / personal trainer. I had no luck whatsoever with the language schools, who ignored my emails, but found a 100% job in a health club within two weeks.

So maybe you need simply to be more flexible? Either retrain in a profession which is needed here, or go live somewhere else where they need people with your skill set.

Michael:

Relax man. Amy simply made the point (which I think is spot on) that if you can't get the job you want, then being more flexible on what you'd consider accepting is a good idea. The job you end up maybe won't be your dream job, or your dream level, but in today's hard market any decent job is already good. 

No one said it would be easy to get a job, and no one tried to take away from the kind of jobs you're looking for. 

Nir

Michael - my intention was not to offend. Nor is it my place to judge anyone as stupid or stubborn, I was merely pointing out a simple fact and relating my own experience in contrast to some of the more negative experiences described here.

I picked up this thread when I arrived and to be honest it scared me. To read of this bleak employment market, with so many skilled unemployed I feared that I would have to return to London, unable to support myself in Geneva.

In answer to your questions - I am 34 years old and the 100% job is far from my dream, but I have adapted so will hopefully prosper here whilst working towards my dream.

Thank you for your forgiveness, evidently my naivete and lack of knowledge of local culture is working to my disadvantage. I wish you every success in your continued jobhunt and admire your tenacity. I am sure that through this website you will use your adept social skills to continue building the network which will open the right doors for you.

Wise words Nir, you are so very right.

Flexibility is the key, the thing is with the swiss is that they only ever study and do apprenticeships for one career.

Everybody want to be a director or engineer and no one wants to sweep the toilets in macDonalds. This could be the downfall of the Swiss unless they learn from the rest of Europe.

I have a very checkered CV ranging from acupuncturist to ski resort manager responsible for huge budgets and 40 staff as well as chef, which is like gold in the UK because it shows flexibility and willingness to learn other trades.

In Switzerland however it is consedered as indecisive with lack of direction and not goal or career orientated.

I now have five CV's all of which are full of holes and gaps because I don't want to mix different work experiences and/or training. Very tricky indeed but I sense the time will come when people like myself will be of value and indeed an asset due to the vast experience we have acquired.

I am now studying to obtain my HGV (heavy goods vehicle) lisence as there is plenty of work in that sector (another string to my bow), my aim is to drive lorries around Europe three days a week and spend the remaining four days working for myself and my business as a private chef.

Hope springs eternal my friends.

I don't really consider myself over qualified, for my profession, but I do consider that maybe I am being pidegon holed as a webmaster. The fault of this is my own, I don't think I am communicating my abilitys correctly in my CV.

I think BOTH Amy & Michael are correct: Amy has a second profession to fall back on, and that is great. I am going to be taking a taxi driving exam if possible just to get back in work. However if you have been in a profession for all your working life a complete change of direction can be difficult, lack of experience can be a major problem and a lot of employers won't look at an 40+ applicant for a basic job, after all they don't believe you will stay.

As for myself going somewhere else unfortunately I can only do that if I want to tear my family apart. Yes I can go back to Spain, my clients there would be very happy to see me return, but I have a partner and 5 children now settled in Switzerland.

My Plan is take a long hard critical look at my CV and get some professional help regarding my CV (I know who from), applications and interview technique.

Just like Lawrence I am creating multiple CV's tailored to different skills:

1 - Web Design

2 - AutoCAD

3 - IT

4 - Basic general

Hopefully if I get my CV correct I will find some form of work, or at least another interview. Regardless I will be getting some form of professional help as I really think that my CV is failing to comunicate correctly.

Maybe all of us Job Seekers should start our own support group here on Glocals - maybe we could meet in Ikea where we can get a free cup of coffee!

Cheers,

Chris

lawrence, I agree with you 200%!

I've been there in the job market for almost 8 months, gave up and staring now my own business!

recruiters are so boxed in their strict criteria that if ur slightly over-qualified they rather not take the risk with you.  OR god forbid, if you have job experiences in two or more different fields, they're astonished as to how can you not stick to one track career path! 

i've lived in 6 countries, never had problem finding a job but here it's just tooo damn (use the word you want!)....

good luck starting something on your own too!

cheers!

Thanks Catherine,..... my motto is    "if you can't join em, beat em".

I have also worked in many different countries and find Switzerland the hardest job market in the world.

A reason for this may also be to keep the wages high (minimum wage is 20sfr per hour) in order to maintain the high standard of living and to not flood the market with "cheap labour", but i do still feel that a two year apprenticeship to pour a cup of coffee is a little too excessive.

I have many cousins in Switzerland and I have discussed this with them, hoping for a glint of sympathetic recognition to my plight

It is so funny (if it wasn't such a serious topic) to see the looks of horror on their faces when i show them my CV.

I used them as a mirror for future possible employers in order to guage a reaction from a typical Swiss.

I myself am half Swiss (and half Indian) so I shouldn't be so harsh to judge.

But I am now all for the concept of free enterprise, a lot of foreigners in London have done this and have become hugely successful as a result, you only need to look at the amount of Indian, Iranian and Turkish restaurants we have which are booming in London.

Fabulous, lets all learn from them, see with new eyes and stretch our wings for the flight ahead.

Ps, I would be more than happy to cook a wonderfull Indian meal for all of you at no charge so we can discuss this further and exchange ideas.

I am in London now but will return shortly

hey, you think the job market is difficult, wait till you start your own business and "tread" on your competitor's toes. You will find that you will be boxed out, have your car tires punctured, be super scrutinized, etc etc. and may even have a few court cases just to make you aware you are not in your own country.

Nevertheless, if you play smart and play to win, you can beat them.

Hello,

I am Swiss and am still unemployed since more than a year, IN Switzerland! Sorry to admit that I am somewhat happy to hear that it is just as difficult for some foreigners to get a job here as it is for the Swiss. Where I live in central Switzerland though, I am disgusted to see that "Flüchtlinge" have more chances of getting a job with NO qualifications, that someone like you or I with many.

In my entire career in Switzerland, I have been unemployed a total of three years altogether. What a waste of career time and loss of money! Needless to say, I expanded my search to temp jobs in hotels, bars, shops.... and even THERE you need to have THE qualifications, or are overqualified. I have also cross-searched in similar domains than mine and... no luck/chance.

It's not easy to NOT be desperate. It's not easy to stay motivated or "understand". Today IS an employers market so... including painting up your CV again, rearranging it, applying in another field, networking, using social online networks.... I can only conclude one thing: it's just a lottery.

I have changed my CV COUNTLESS times. EVERYONE I showed it to WITHOUT EXCEPTION will tell me how I "should do it up again". Therefore - that the RIGHT format of your CV falls in front of the RIGHT eyes, that are in the RIGHT mood to "see" it.... Wuuu! Good luck!

The only encouraging thing I can say is... you are not alone. Don't bother getting any more papers, qualifications or the like. Yeah, ok, see a pro about CV formatting and all that jazz. Naturally, there's always a new view on that (just like the number of works of art in this world, I can tell you!!!!) .

What I suggest is, you set yourself to make a specific number of applications a month, and just send your CV as is to them. BUT make the big mods in your CV to match up with the number one job ads that you REALLY want.

The rest of the time, TRY (and believe me I know this is hard, as I'm there right now), TRY to get off this applications sprawl, and do something you like: sports, dancing, going out, meeting people.

This for two reasons:

1- you have to do something positive to keep your motivation up and your nerves calm.

2- you just might bump into someone who is willing to take your CV and push it forward for you.

Knowing your position, I admire your cool at some of the replies you've been given here. No doubt they are all true and meant well. I don't know about you though, but BOY am I sick of hearing the same feedback! So, good of you to let it out here ;o) After all, it IS an online community = help, a listening ear and advice, soothing or solidarity from others... the latter from me in particular :)

Wish you well.

Hi Guys,

Here how good Agencies are:

I have been visiting a certain agency for 6 months. My CV tells them I cover 3 related displines. CAD design/draughting - 7 years experience. Web design - Approx 10/12 Years experience. IT Support/trouble shooting - 7 years experience (obviously some of this was at the same time over a period of 14 years).

No matter how I arrange or word my CV, or say anything this agency tells me I am a web designer! So 3 weeks ago I applied for a web design position through them... Twice!

First time they told me they already had people going to the interview, second time they advertised, they told me they would get back to me.

The position has been advertised AGAIN!

Is this a real position? or are they pulling everybody's chain?

Tomorrow I will visit them again, in an attempt to find out. Anything interesting comes out of this I will let you all know.

Epicure I know the feeling, I ran my business in Spain for 7 years, but strangely enough the ones that made really feel I was in a foreign country were my own lawyers/accountants - over 7 years I fired 3 groups and lost 1000's to them.

Cheers,

Chris 

Hi guys,

Can I suggest you pick the top ten companies you want to work for and do some extensive research on them. ( history, mission, vision etc) Then tailor your coverletter to each company accordingly. Focus on what skills you have that will benefit them. Also, do a little digging and find out who the HR manager is (Via Linkedin or something similar) and write to them directly.  Follow up with a phone call a week later.

Hope that helps!

haha! you are funny epicurei say: bring on the battle! 

!I I were you, i'd start a blog for discouraged/disillusioned job seekers expats or not, in geneva and your role is to put a smile on their face though ur funny comments!

trust me, i'd definitely check ur site often!

HI Roberta,

Really appreciate your support!

but you know what? for all 5 jobs i've had so far, i didn't even apply to them.  They indirectly came to me because i was recommended or i just knew someone who know's the boss type of situation.  All this to say that i know that you're chances of getting a job are much much higher if u have the right contact/network.  Linked In is great a tool and now i attend special all-women professional network meetings in geneva to broaden my network.

good luck to all!  need faith, patience and a sense of humor :)

I would like to complete the excellent answer form kparker.

2/ Language is very important over here. If you are not at least competent in the regions native language then your chances are even more restricted

⇒ You absolutely need French and good-enough German in the French Swiss part; and German and good-enough French in German Swiss part). English is a must.

4/ I'll stick my neck out and say the Swiss do NOT really want 'foreigners' coming in and taking 'their' jobs. Ok I'll say it ...they're racist.

5/ The Swiss job market is SLOW and inflexible

6/ Because of the situation you will be expected to take any job at any price and you can expect your salary and conditions to be disappointing

In the Ikea!!:)very funny!

check in this site internet:

www.portail-emploi.ch

www.topjobs.ch

www.jobclick.ch

go to the tourist information centre next the post office to ask for a list of agence de placement they have...few of them...and then go to the ORP (next to square Augustin to correct your cv)or ask for info about open activity in Geneva

Good luck to you also

 ps 40 is nothing!!!

Good good good!!

Thanks Roberta I feel less disperate now!!:)

Thanks Catherine!!sense of humor doesn't miss!!!

We all have!!

But also a good network you're right! by the way I'm also on Linked in.. to increase my network!!But I don't really undersend the way does it works!!

I tried to find some events or some conferences...meeting..but I didn't!??:(((you want help me:)

Wau Jose F!!

I 'm so excited about your speak!!Are you working in Comunication??

In this case I'll be your assistant!! 

Cheers

Daniela

OK reporting in...

I took my new refurbished CV in today to the same agency i have applied to 2x before (same position) and applied again - this time with my new CV.

Basically due to some great advice from a gentleman with whom I will be taking a course with regardless (as no job is for life now) I edited my CV and decided instead of a nice introduction - a HUGE ammount of Buzzwords (related to the job and my skills but still buzzwords) in different fonts, sizes and then in italics and in bolded letters.

Now I am waiting for a phone call to go to an interview, it made a difference, before I could even get them to really read my CV - now it's being submitted to the next stage. I still don't know if I will get the job but it got a more positive response.

Of course they still could be fobbing me off, but at least I walked away feeling better. Your never know I might even get an interview.

If I get the job I suggest we change the venue of the "Jobseekers Support Group" from Ikea with a free coffee to Starbucks - 5-8 CHF a coffee but you get to sit down.

Chris

If you want the job, put your self in the job, You think positive, "I can do it", " I can get it!" If you don´t, think that " I think there is reason, there is something bigger and better out for me". This is how I do it when i am looking for a job. I get stressed, I stop looking. I cry, maybe dont even  talk to anybody. I take myself together and start again when I feel fresh. I read books of confidence. I work hard ON MY SELF and I start looking again. It helps if you let someone to take a look at  your CV. Don´t just give up but sometimes just take a brake! You will get the job which ever you choose. It is just all up to you how you sell yourself.

thank you reka1123, but I do juse it to get the job I want. It is not books, it works for me. I was looking for a job for 6 months until I got the one I wanted! And I got it just exact. this way.

I did.

But I would say even less than 1 / 10 people.

No, this is wrong. Advertising fake ads is illegal and serious recruiting companies don't do that. It may be true when speaking about really small and brand new recruiting agencies... but I don't think they can afford that little game, job-ads costs a lot of money.

I heard a lot of stupid stories coming from people who can't get a job "I am on the recruiters blacklist" "these are all fake ads" etc.. but thruth is that even if you are "wow" on the paper, if you have no social skills, it will be really dificult to get a job, that's all.

Some tools in today's world : socializing, follow-up (do it everytime you get a business card), personal branding, defining your target (and being realistic with it).

I personally believe my CV was to detailed, I have removed a lot of the detail now and made it bold. I have had an imediate change in reaction, it's far from perfect now but it is getting better.

Everyone who read the CV before said it was good, but here the important thing THEY READ IT. However I think it's safe to say the Agencies don't read the CV's. They act like an interviewers and only read the ones that grab there attention. This is fine but let people know they didn't find the CV visually interesting, find out what the person can do and offer some quick advice. IT technicians aren't CV writers. It would be great idea if they were just honest.

As for coming here without a job, I understand exactly what you are saying. It was neither my intention or desire. It was either that or take my children away from their father or mother - not a choice.

Now I am here I have to make it work, I have a written job offer as a Taxi driver but until some paper can be obtained I can't take it... So i am willing to take other work.

I will keep trying and I will get there. I am almost tri-lingual, I have been in what I would call a related carreer path for 14 years, Computer based Design and IT, and I look great in a suit! I will get there I just have to keep going.

Hi Eduardo,

I have arrived here from Spain, lots of things are illegal there as well it doesn't mean they don't happen, especially with work law.

But as my Father said "It donsn't matter if you do something wrong, it only matter if you get caught!".

Mind you this is the same man who gave me the following advice:

"Date beautiful women, marry an ugly one" - I asked why

He told me: "Beautiful women will leave you and you will be heart broken" - I asked if the ugly women would never leave me?

This was his reply: "Yes but you won't really care".

Should I real follow this man's advice?

As for your last comments Socialising, follow up... etc. Absolutely right.

Wow. Should I feel better already.

I'm an aerospace engineer, worked in 5 of the "biggest" Swiss aviation companies, can communicate in 5 languages, am Swiss & EU, grew up in the Middle East (hence a deep understanding of various cultures, religions, traditions, etc.), backpacked around the world on my own, and completed Swiss military service upto the rank of Sergeant, got to my first career goal in 2009 as a middle manager leading a team, gradually worked from engineering, to marketing, to sales, to customer relations (all in aviation)... but low and behold... hm, still no job.

Speaking of reality, in "networking", there's a lot of blah blah and "hot air" too. That's even more frustrating. Besides, people may want or will help you and bring your CV forward.... but oooooh how many companies did I get "through" to, until my CV hit and HR persons desk aaaand ooops! It must have missed the table and fallen right into the bin.

Thank you for the note about trying to contact THE HR manager. Yyyyah.... If everyone did that and if he/she alway picked up the phone or replied to all our desperate applications then... the HR department would be a one-an/woman show, na? There'd be no need for a whole department then would there?

As I said before, it's a lottery. And yes indeed, unemployment is a time to "think". But for those who have been or are there.... on some days it's almost like one needs a gargantuan effort to drag oneself in front of the computer to glue oneself to the chair and find the Herculean will to go - through - those - ads --------- AGAIN!!!

And having said that.... I'm off to party :o)

YESSSS!!!I'll!!!GET A Job and be positive!

The ugly one you don't care?!!I don't think so The MEN are just so affraid why are you so affraid of a broken heart?It does make you feel !!it does make you alive!!

I did say should I really follow this man's advice! 

Just try to keep this thread a little light hearted, with all this doom and gloom its really possible to get very dishearten with this thread.

Hi Daniela,

I am in a similar situation.
What about entrepreneurship.. I am thinking of starting a business in Bern because of the same situation you are in.
I am tired of rejections and the same old story.. The economy is weak or I am not Swiss enough.

Just a thought.

Let me know how you are progressing.
Good luck,

Mike

HI Daniela,

I 100% with Epicure, becouse we ( I have also a degree in Tourism) have a problem really in the "base" .. Many companies they don´t know about our degree, they have not idea about what it is all about.

You can try to underline your knowledges. It is not the first time I have to say - yes. we study the following subjects and then list them ( economy, accountancy, statistics, law,..) So probably you need to work on a cv with your skills (competences)

Maybe a new refreshing cv style will be positive. Good luck .

well .

You are my hero now. it is the first time I read Nazi mentality coming from swiss people. Unfortunatelly you are right. There is a big distance between international companies and national companies in the way the react witn no swiss people and it is a shame. I have a care assistant certificate and they ask 1200 frs to get this "recognise" in this country. (I said care assistant- aide soignant )  

In my experience in two of the toughest job markets in  the world -- Geneva and Washington, D.C. -- neither the cv nor the cover letter will get you the job or even the interview. Of course, mistakes in grammar, punctuation and poor phrasing will prevent you from being considered at all, so it's always better to have someone else  review your materials before you send them out.

In my experience, the Swiss in this area tend to hire French candidates, even for retail positions.  I think it has to do with the Swiss inherent inferiority complex toward the French as well as the lack of jobs in the French departments neighboring the area.   It doesn't mean that these French are especially qualified either.  And often times these French candidates even win out over equally-qualifed Swiss ones.  That is just the way it is here, at least in Geneva.

Nearly every one I know who has gotten a job in Geneva has done so through personal contacts.  Hardly anyone in HR has the time or inclination to look through résumés any more, except if highly movitated...

In addition, I know of very few women or racial minorities who are able to secure mid- or upper-level positions with Swiss companies.  One has to focus on multinationals and international organizations where the odds are a little better, particularly if the HR people are not Swiss or French. 

I'm not saying that all Swiss and French are racist and sexist.  It's simply that, in my experience and anecdotal research, that they are not used to dealing with women and racial minorities in upper-level positions. In addition, you can't really expect to find any support in employment discrimination or harassment cases here.  The laws are generally not enforced here, so forget about it unless you have substantial resources, time and patience.

Executives from multinational companies and, to some extent, in international organizations have had wider exposure to qualified candidates from both genders and all races.

If you do a little research, you will see that while women have made significant advancements in the political sphere in this country, few have done so in the business world.  This is one  reason why so many have chosen to create their own companies.

As for tourism-related jobs, if you haven't already looked at various international organizations and non-governmental organizations for positions, you might want to investigate those.  They need people experienced with travel-related software and language skills. 

I would also try to meet with people from your embassy and consulate to ask them for assistance with jobs in international organizations and ngos.  Every IO has a quota for citizens for each country.  A number of countries are under-represented in many of these organizations. It doesn't mean you will get the job but it may help you get a  foot in the door.

I know it's an extremely difficult job market.  I can relate.  Try to keep your spirits up and keep looking...

This is a very good idea !!!I'll be sending out cv and asking people!!and maybe take the first good offer that is going to bring me back!!!

Anyway is not the time to start my own activity witout so much experience...

But let me know how it is going Ok?keep in touch!

Daniela

@ Translator:

I like you! THANK YOU for such an eloquent response! :) I live in Central Switzerland, and it was only a couple of years ago that that part of CH had a CEO that was a woman. Evidently... unfortunately...  seeing the "cookie still crumbles" as it does today, she didn't last up there for very long.

I've been encouraged to start a company of my own and considered it... but - if it were so easy, everyone would be doing it na? :o{

Thanks again.

Thanks!  Yes, I will admit to being cool... 

Well, I recently got together with my black women friends -- many of whom are multi-degreed, with permits, beautiful, talented, etc., and almost every one has related similar experiences in the Swiss job market. 

If you look at Forbes most powerful women list, you will see that the vast majority are from the U.S.  It's not that other women around the world are not equally talented. It's also that the US has good anti-discrimination statutes and that US women are increasingly aware of their power in the market.  Same goes for racial minorities.  Things are in no way perfect in the US in these respects but this structure and market-power awareness helps a great  deal.

Of course, you run into some real bitches (!) in the workplace as well and you find that sisterhood is not all it's cracked up to be...

I have been reading this thread with some amusement, though.. I suppose as a black American, I am so used to discrimination in the workplace that it doesn't really phase me that much.  One does learn to keep good notes.

Switzerland will eventually be forced to catch up, but it is so far behind the US and the Scandanavian nations that I don't really consider this  country modern, in terms of women's rights in the workplace. 

I think most changes here will come through women and their allies deciding to support businesses that hire more women. Of course, the same can be said for most UN-related organizations.  There are one or two women at the top but when you analyze the second strata, you find fewer than there should be....

You are right on the button. Indeed in some countries, things have moved forward for women. Someone told me once, that in England many years ago, there was a phase of positive discrimination: that is, if you were a woman and from a minority group, you were more likely to get the job.

As you rightly said, sisterhood has not turned out as one would have hoped. I never understood why some women that "made it" to the top didn't want to help or even walked all over their female peers. But ok, it takes many different people to make a world *shrug*

I went to Scandinavia once on a business trip. I heard that 75% of the women's population there work! So that must mean that in every company, it's 50/50 men/women, at least. So much for the men here saying that too many chicks in one place doesn't make things work. Tuh!

Ok, when I chose aerospace engineering, I knew it was still a predominantly (I dislike that word) male work industry... so I decided to change that, LOL!!! However, that still didn't change the fact that I was being paid 15-20% less than my male counterparts (I don't like that either) with the same age, qualification and work experience. A study in CH at the end of last year confirmed that, since a long time, last year was a record gap between mens and womens salaries: average 24%!!!!! Despicable.

People (notably men, in my case) keep saying, "be flexible, do another job out of your field", and "it's not about the dosh you make, just get a job"... Na ya. And all of a sudden when they find the carpet's been pulled from under their feet: "oh that's unfair", but "I deserve more/it!", and "I'm entitled to benefits",  "but I've been in this company/doing this for so long, why should I change?!", "how am I going to be able to afford my current lifestyle/standard of living?"...

Funny eh? When the kack doesn't fall on other people's plate but on yours, it's easy for them to say to you: "oh, just wipe it off and something else will come soon", or "oh, just eat it and be grateful"

Anyhow, hopefully, I will find a job soon

Hi, Im from england and yes your right in england they get the same pay as a man doing the same job. It,s called discrimation. They can,t pay a man more than a women just purely cause they are a man. Lot of people got sued few years back and they can,t advertise for a man or a women for the job they can,t discrimate on sex.

Well, one bright side of the Geneva area is that if you have a service-oriented company,  you market  yourself  to lots of ex-patriate clients.  Same is true for certain  goods/products.

I  keep wondering when someone will open a diner where you can get a decent  breakfast.  Pain Quotidien is ok  but I miss those greasy spoons  where you get pancakes,  eggs (any way you want them), bacon, and all the rest of the cholesterol festival...

As part of my sorting out my CV and due to what I am reading here, I am removing vast amounts from my various CV's. A CV should be honest but you aren't on the stand so it doesn't have to be "Complete".

Where as in other markets a varied career within your field or many fields would be looked at as experience, in Switzerland this is looked at as flitting from job to job - however good the reasons were.

So when writing a CV for a position I am looking for the relevant previous experience or creating relevant links and leaving out the other experiences, where possible, and treating the rest as if  I was designing an eye catching notice.

As for discrimination, there is no such thing as positive discrimination, some one should be selected for a job on purely their merits. It's very nice to think that there can be Positive discrimination but it's not possible. To choose anyone based on their sex, skin colour, etc... is wrong however good the intentions. When people try to do good to address the balance they are doing evil at the same time regardless. With any form of discrimination, when people use intelligence, a conscience and play fair discrimination is diminished.

Yes - advertising a job for a specific sex should be wrong, except in certain circumstances - these would normally be in favour of women not men. I know of little to no positions that should exclude women. I have however been refused 2 jobs due the fact fact I am a man, I did offer to wear a dress! Yes equal pay should be a right as well. 

The truth is Switzerland is greatly behind the times, while Spain is slowly coming into the modern world, Switzerland has it's feet firmly set in the past. The design may be new but thinking behind it is old.

Of course this is why this statement however true is also infeasible: I'll stick my neck out and say the Swiss do NOT really want 'foreigners' coming in and taking 'their' jobs. Ok I'll say it ...they're racist. Yes the Swiss may not want all these foreigners here, but the truth is they need us (maybe not all of us) We bring new ideas, skills, labour, etc. BTW this is true of all countries, it's just easier to see here in such a small country.

Plus in the Geneva/Vaud areas there are a large amount of NON-Swiss businesses and organisations and they definitely don't just employ Swiss people.

Roberta - I you have read in previous post that while I haven't been in Aerospace or Cern I have held some reasonable positions over the last 14 years. I had the respect of my peers and clients - I am this morning applying for a job as a dishwasher - Writing a CV for this one was a bit difficult, IT & design on your CV doesn't really help you say you are happy to wash dishes, so I have left most of my working life out  - varied positions covers the last 7 years with some shaky examples. So I am swallowing my pride here heavily to do this.

One of the reason is when you are in work it is easier to get another job. During the first six months here I could say I was holding out, looking, getting used to the area, taking some time off, etc... Unfortunately most people won't except those excuses after 6 months (probably only for 3 months) and I am now just unemployed. I am however a full time stay at home father looking after my 2 little girls, Emily (2 years old) and Mia (1 year old) but of course any where in the world you go this is never recognised as a job/role for a man.

Woman at home looking after her kids and home - Mum/Homemaker

Man at home looking after his kids and home - Unemployed/lazy

Did you know that at least up until 7 years ago (I haven't been back to the UK in 7 years) the term on government paperwork in the UK for a single father (wife dead or left) was not Single dad or Single parent, it was... Single mother. My friend always got really annoyed by this ever time he filed out a form. So discrimination does exist in the UK.

Finally my reason for being part of Glocals - networking. Don't just approach this as a means to a job, that's not really networking that's being a user. Networking may lead to information that leads to a job, but really it should be a way of meeting new people not because of what they can do for you but because of the new experiences, perspectives, ideas and enjoyment they will bring into your life. As a long time ex-pat being a part of a community is a lot more than hoping someone will offer me a job. it is part of what Roberta said before: "do something you like: sports, dancing, going out, meeting people". My home is a strange mix of Cabo verdan's, Portuguese, Spanish and English we speak Spanish all the time so spending some time with fellow English speakers is a pleasure in it's self.

Cheers

Chris

P.S. @Translator: You open up that greasy spoon, I'll wash the dishes ;)

Admin please get an edit button on this forum - I have just read my last post and there are so many mistakes made by rushing (and controlling 2 small children).

It would have been nice to able to edit these, for one it will stop people thinking I am either stupid or English is a second language to me.

After 1302 people who read my article...

I didn't stop to look for a job and correct my cvs...so good I think your suggestion and your support!!

I have to do a job interview!!!!I am so happy like a child with the first present!!!

YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPPPPPPPPP!!!!!
Thaks everyone for supporting!!!(incrocio le ditaaaaaaaa  ce la metto tutta!!))I'll do my best!!!!

@Daniela: Good luck!!

@Chris: Thank you. I would normally agree with you, that discrimination is unfair.... but in my current situation, where I am experiencing a lot of it in my field (and because I am not Yoda, Master Gi, or a Zen Monk), I am unable to express compassion for my male peers competing for the same job as me, and therefore have somewhat adopted slightly unrestrained feministic tendencies As for applying for odd jobs... they didn't even want me in a bar because I was not qualified as well as over qualified.... What tha'??? Same for a hotel reception job. Well, at least I found my current temp job selling jewellery

@Translator: if you are willing to make pancakes, and if Chris is willing to wash up, I am willing to to lay the table/serve them and clear up

Remember so called "positive discrimination" is only positive if it's in your favour - one company I worked for made no secret that they actively sought to employ handicapped staff, even if it meant reject a better qualified non-handicapped person. Why? because they got a nice certificate that they could put in the reception saying what a great company they were.

You really need to try and get out of that field or try a different country if that position is the most important desire in your life. Switzerland is not being your friend, as someone else suggested find a company here that has departments abroad (where anti-discrimination laws exist) and apply there, then you can transfer back and fight the system from inside.

You have qualifications, languages and I am sure a lot more going for you, try what the rest of us have done, change country, you can always come back!

As for me, my 2 girls are the most important thing in my life and my job is second to them. I happen to have a lot of experience and I am damn good at what I do but if no-one here wants to use my skills and knowledge, OK I will be a Taxi driver or dishwasher at Translators new café.

As for basic job, I know what you mean... either strip down your CV to the real basics, or don't even submit one. Whatever you do, don't show somebody that is offering you a basic job that you are a certified genius - if nothing else they will feel inadequate next to you and won't offer you the job for that reason. If they job is really basic avoid even picking your nose and scratching your arse at the same time - they may consider it multi tasking. 

Keep your chin up and say with me "Ommm" and you to could be a zen monk given time.

Good luck,

Chris

Great news, congratulations,

Let us know how you get on.

Good luck,

Chris

hey guys,

is there anybody around working in IT? computer programming? Java basically or anything related?

thanks for letting me know if you or your acquaintances are familiar with this job sector! 

best,

veronica 

I Hello Everyone I find one!!!

Back in Switzerland!!!Montreux!!!:)

A new life is coming!!!

After so many cvs one was considerate:)))

Next stop ROOM and new activity in the Canton the Vaud Montreux!!the city of jazz festival and Chistmas Market!!

Any one coming from there let me know what we can do during our free time !!!

Cheers

Daniela

Finally! Congrats and best wishes! :)

Congratulations, and all the best!

i'm very pleased to say that i gave daniela some cv guidance (via email) and met with her briefly in montreux 2 weeks ago. and voilà, congratulations daniela on taking the initiative to give yourself the possibility to move forward.

well done and best wishes for your future.

:)Today we are meeting up to talk about travel experiencve is anyone want to join!!See you leter Daniela

Hey Daniela,

I want to share with you my own experience in searching for a job here in Geneva..

I have been looking for a job in Finance, Accounting, HR, Admin  since I arrived to Geneva two years ago. I sent many applications to different companies, banks, UN..I never heard back..I just knew that I had been under consideration!!

Till last month, I heard from a friend who works with one of the UN Org., I told him about my difficulties in finding a job in a very rich field in Gva. The first thing he told me is "Remember, the secret is to focus on key accomplishments." in your CV. The CV must reflect your doings in a good and organized way.

Try to re-write your CV, start with working experience first, then studies ect...

GOOD LUCK!

Rajaa

BTW, Congratulations for new job..

Dear Daniela, I was very please to read this incredible thread. On the other hand it has also petrified me! I just moved here to Geneva and am going through the same thing. Really didn't realise how difficult it is get a job here - I had  been advised otherwise..! Only til the non-replies and "will not be proceeding" emails were pouring in did it hit me. The bad thing is that I don't speak french yet, which only makes things more difficult - so I really have to look only at international or multinational companies (which are not easy to get into!). I also have been in the tourism business (large hotel) for the past 7 years in Greece. I'm not actually Greek, but born,raised and studied there - (Applied informatics in business and finance), so I am bilingual in English & Greek and also speak German (not perfect).

I am very happy for you in your success - you deserved it!

Epicure, must say wow to your advice - you really seem to know your stuff!

Ileana 

lol...you're father's advice is quite amusing...funny man

Yeah hysterical...

This is also the man that in 2000 told me to wait a little while because UK house prices would go down. I waited 6 months and it cost me 10 grand UK more for a smaller house :). Great man but sometime rubbish advice.

I think the best advice he ever gave me was don't drink with your brother in law and that Spanish brandy is dangerous. This sage advice arrived on one 26th of December just he got over his hangover. He did try and match drinks with a long serving member of the British Navy (Britain's only lethally trained drinkers) - Yet again he's a great man but like most great men his judgement sometimes isn't so great.

I won't tell you some of the other advice he gave me because this is a polite forum. 

am sure he is quite a character....hard to forget a man who's unique...makes you look at the humorous side of this normally stressful life...thats a good quality actually...never a dull moment :)

Hi Daniella,

Interesting story, just a couple of questions to connect the dots,

Are people being hired in these testing times for the jobs you are wanting to do?

[  ]yes

[  ]no

Do you know any of those lucky people?

[  ]yes

[  ]no

What did they do/have that made them stand out? Talk to them, ask questions.

Or is it just down to shear luck? ( In that case dont invest time in any more training since it is just "luck" anyway)

Are you looking for a job?

Yes maybe!!!I'll be more rich!!;)

Thankkkkkkssssssssss Epicure!!!!!!!!:))))

Temporary job!!but is ok for the moment and yes is not the job that I was looking for but is good way to start again my life here to answer to some of you!!

Hey guys I'd love to see all of you thet give an advice to may advert!!would you like to come to the marché de Noel in Montreux?