I agree with Iannis, particularly when you couple this with Geneva's dog-shit problem. it's a pretty disgusting thought. My observation is that it's mainly the young Swiss Italians that are the problem. 

well, as long as these people don't put their feet up on your couch with their shoes on in your home, we're all safe for the moment!

Mmm.....I get fed up with those shoes on seats too.But I see that everywhere- uk too! The thing about shoes off in houses seems to be more about keeping the floor nice or being quiet.

I have seen plenty of unclean practices here...including unhygienic handling of food in the coop by staff,dogs in shopping trolleys,a dog sitting at table with his posh owner in a posh tea room,eating from the plate........come to think of it,quite a few things involving dogs.It' funny to see this in a country so obsessed with cleanliness and order.

Most definitely... The ones from Lugano's east suburb living in an odd numbered house, to be precise.

I think ticket conductors and other passengers around think probably about their safety first, they don't want to enter into a fight, and secondly don't want to say anything in case they would not be understood.

maybe they should taser them first. to avoid a fight

Many adults, even costume dressed first class costumers do it! In First Class! A ticket conductor when questioned by me why he is not suggesting the passenger to move her feet off the seat he replied ironicaly that he sees no dirt on the seat!
Well, alright then, germs are not visible with a naked eye neither stupidity cells in his brains!

well, i guess it's down to the saying......"you pay peanuts, you get monkeys"

The cleanest trains i have seen in the world are in Japan and Thailand (not allowed to eat nor drink, nor smoke, even on the platforms) ^_^ and you queue in lines.

The dirtiest: London

Some examples to follow :)

@Iannis I understand your issue with shoes on chairs, but as soon as you mentioned germs, well, your argument became less persuasive to me.

If someone walks in the mud and then puts their shoes on the chair, yes, that's actually dirty and if someone sits there, they will get their suit, trousers, skirt, dress or coat dirty and it will need to be cleaned. Definitely.

But, if it's a sunny day and the person has *not* walked in dog shit, etc. etc., well, then the conductor is correct: there is no dirt on the seat. And you should not be worried about catching something (ref: germs) through sitting on that seat later on.

Not such a great system? wow.... you can reach any little village in Switzerland by public transport. Try that in France or even Holland these days.

I think public transport rocks here!!!! 

And apperently the steering wheel of a car has more germs on it than a public toilet seat.

@Lokum

But what if you can’t afford more than one car or can’t even afford a car at all, or can no longer drive for some reason?  We should all take public transport for at least short journeys whenever we can, and not only for ecological reasons.  Which is why the customer should be able to travel in a clean and comfortable conveyance in return for the high fare that has to be paid.

In essence, it is all a matter of respect for others as well as oneself, something that has to be learned in the home and in school:  “give me  a child until he/she is seven …”

Ritchie

What a load of rubbish...

Use the train and respect it, the world will be better for everyone.

Long story - will condense: the "other grandparents" travelling London->Harrow. Young lout with heavy boots on the seat : asked by the above to take his shoes off opposite seat. He flatly refuses. Above say they will call transport police. Lout shrugs his shoulder. TP waiting at next station, board train. Upshot after many months, lout attends court and is found guilty, whereupon he proclaims "no money, can't pay". "How much CAN you pay" asks magistrate? "£1.00 per week" - this for the next five years. Is it worth it? Of course but miscreats know they will only get a slap on the wrist so flout the law. Seems the same everywhere sadly.

@ Zonker: Several times a day I see dogs shit on the pavement and dog owners just removing the shit using a plastic bag. Can you imagine on how many dog shit spots you walk every day?
What if a female dog urinates? Urine stays there until dried by the sun or washed out by the rain.

Some people also spit on the ground. Can you realise on how many phlegms we step every time we take a walk?

Train travelers walk in and out of the not-so-clean train toilets. How clean is the toilet floor in a train or in a train's station toiliet.

Now, if some feel comfortable to walk where dogs have shit and people spited phlegms and then place those shoes on a train seat, what else could I say...

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/10313619/Smartphones-and-tablets-harbour-more-germs-than-toilet-seats.html this is a very interesting read

Public transport rocks indeed! And one more thing: you arrive at your job relaxed! By driving, say an hour, you actually work before even arriving at work! Getting by train you can chat, read, take a nap, browse the internet using your laptop, etc.
I love using public trasport that's why I care so much about keep it safe and clean!

well though i support you for first 2 claim 

however i wish to say that these act is only by school goinig kids not but mature ppl

for 2 year i was traveling between Geneva and Bern at 6am.

Every time I first took off my shoes, put them under my bench seat , and put a 20minute under my feet. I think this is a good solution but maybe your still worried about germs, so avoid sitting on the train or public toilets. I just try to squat but avoid contact on the seat, but the germs could still jump onto my ars.

Many adults, even costume dressed first class costumers do it! In First Class!

A ticket conductor, when questioned by me why he is not suggesting the passenger to move her feet off the seat he replied ironicaly that he sees no dirt on the seat!

Well, alright then, germs are not visible with a naked eye neither stupidity cells in his brains!

I hate bare feet on the seats even more .. I'd rather have some dust from the floor on my trousers than somebody's TOE JUICE

I once saw a conductor had a guy the 20 minutes to put his feet on. (In first class of course)

luxury problems … 

And « toe juice » can be infectious.

R.

Dogs :On CFF/SBB/

If your dog is under 30 cm in height (up to their shoulder blades) and is being carried in a transportation box, basket or other suitable container, your dog may travel free of charge as hand luggage.

If you have a GA travelcard or Half-Fare travelcard with a valid ticket, you can buy a 1-day travelpass for dogs for CHF 34. 1-day travelpasses for dogs are not designated for a specific class and may be used in 1st and 2nd class. However, the accompanying person must have a valid ticket for the relevant class.

And in the end, this means the dog could sit on the seats. not just on the floor?

Interestingly,comments on this thread say a lot about the value of the  " 20 Minutes" which has finally now been proven to be only good enough to rest dirty shoes on!

Thanks all :) Juts put me off my food.

I would add that when visiting a friend in hospital I was horrified to see visitors sitting on patients beds.

When I was working in London in the early 80s (yes, I'm that old!), I had to catch the train home mid afternoon. I sat almost next to an immaculately dressed older gent reading a newspaper, with folds that looked like they had been ironed in. As the train left the station a punk/skinhead came and sat in the seat facing us, and put his enormous Dr Martins on the seat next to the afore-mentioned gent. After around 10 minutes, the gent folded his paper and put it on his lap. He then stared straight at the punk, who was getting more and more anxious but still didn't put his feet down, presumably as he could see that this was obviously annoying the gent. Eventually the punk could bear it no more and growled at the gent "wot the fuck you looking at grandad". Several people looked up and feared the worse, thinking the punk was going to attach the gent. However, quick as a flash, the gent shot out of his seat and punched the punk so hard that the chain that was obnoxiously connecting his ear and nose, ripped from his nose and dangled, while said nose leaked blood profusely. The gent then proceeded to give the punk a lecture for the remainder of the journey to the next stop ("waste of space", "should be in the army", "parents must be ashamed", etc) where the gent calmly smoothed down his jacket, picked up his paper and briefcase and disembarked. The punk stayed on the train but got up and moved to another carriage with his tail between his legs.

It was pure gold!

I know an irish guy that tried that when he made him pay for a dog ticket;-)

Well at 6am, i your guaranteed to pick one up and use if , or maybe read it also.

and if you leave it their, certainly will be reused , i mean read.

So,according to a story above,punching a stranger who annoys you is laudable whilst putting your feet on the seat is unspeakable and deserves  instant punishment.

things are getting a little warped here....

Anyone experienced the feet in the seats in cinema halls? I have experienced that more often than the ones in trains and because of that I usually sit in the front rows and get a neck pain or prefer video on demand on bluewin TV ;) 

Punching an arrogant an intmidating stranger, who shows not the slightest bit of respect for anyone and everyone is perfectly acceptable behaviour, yes. Otherwise one is likely to become the punchee rather than the puncher.

Read properly. punching a stranger who puts his doc martins on a seat needs punching. not just SOME stranger :-)

Spock is on your side even if Buzzcocks isn't

Sorry mr Lloyd...sounds like the law of the jungle.Hopefully,most people don't behave like that.

Anyway,why is everyone getting at punks now?They barely exist anymore! Most "yobs" nowadays are probably listening to rap...or else they are bankers 

I was actually a punk myself. A proper one. In the 70s. Real punks did not wear Dr Martins, tartan, hanging braces or leather jackets.

And yes, I was a banker - how did you guess?!

Don't listen to rap though though. That is actually a sin.

Not possible "real" punks cannot become bankers...

Although the opposite is possible

Haha! I think it's called 'growing up'. It happens to us all. Obviously less to men than women.......

Well,I don't know about "growing up"."Real" punks I knew were people who had curtains values that wouldn't easily translate into banking,that's what I meant.But maybe values change ,I dunno

I would be happy to debate over a glass of wine anytime, just like any grown up punk.

(I think we've scared eveyone off)

LOL- yes,it looks like it.

Where have all the dirty feet complaints gone??

Well, isn't that what punks do?

Could also be good training for a banking career.

I have not read all of the above comments, but as a human person belonging to the human race, I'm sick and tired of some referring bad or good behavior  to their country of origin, race or so ever. 

We're all human after all...

When I was a teenager living in Switzerland, I once put my feet on a train seat. The ticket guy asked me to remove them, as a respect to others. My opinion is that in general, the human race has become more self-centered and many don't care about others or have not been educated to care and respect others. But once again, it has nothing to do with the color, or what country you come from.

lets hope this link works for you

https://www.google.com/search?q=obama+feet+on+desk&safe=off&rlz=1C1CHMO_enCH508CH508&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=M_ROUtaJFYXVtAbwhIGIAw&ved=0CAkQ_AUoAQ&biw=1920&bih=1115&dpr=1

Er... why a female dog?

Because female dogs do not lift their legs against lamp posts, female dogs squat. So more likey you are to tread in female dog wee.

Do I get a prize?

For what?

Avoiding the wee-wee of lady dogs (aka bitches) or not leaning up against lamp posts?

R.

Wow!

Un carlin-étoile du cirque chinois !!

TBJ, R.

I'm often annoyed with the feet on the seat in trains too (but feet on 20min are ok). Sometimes I tell people that it's disrespectful, sometimes I tell them there's a fine for it ( 80 CHF if I'm not mistaken). Sometimes I complain to a train conductor and they either say something or do something about it. Sometimes I just stare at the paysage and stop noticing. Try any of the above. It helps.

I used to have issues with cleansiness in general, then I spend a year in the army. Everything looks clean after that.

Eugenia,you are very brave.

i think the feet on seats thing- on buses really,as I use them every day - annoys me because I am sitting on nice public transport that works and runs efficiently,having come from a country where the opposite is true and dirt and grime abound.And it strikes me that the people putting  their shoes up on the seats are not aware how lucky they are to have what they have.....and they are in the process of dragging it down.I think young people here ( they are after all the main culprits)are a bit spoilt.

but,then again,re- reading this...I just feel that it shows I am getting old and grumpy!

That Swiss trains are the most punctual is one of the biggest bu*****t I've ever heard. Maybe this was once and anyway I've never had the pleasure of sperimenting that.

I took the train for a year from Lausanne to Nyon a/r and my trains were late 8 times out of 10.   

And yes, they are quite dirty, and not only talking about people putting their feet on the front sit....

8 times out of 10? Wow! That's a lot! In that case, you should definitely complain about this 80% lateness rate (along with how dirty their trains are) to the CFF! Has anyone else here also experienced the same levels of inconvienience due to lateness? I guess I've been very lucky because it seldom has happened when I've taken one - just once in every 20 or so by about 2 minutes. 

However, if you are regularly experiencing such huge levels of tardiness of trains then maybe Lokum has a point and it would be better to drive everywhere. Especially for times when you need to be at the airport. 

Many thanks for the heads up Laura.

Exactly! It's the best place, compared to other countries (also in the eu!), when it comes to anything being punctual, being clean a being ordered. It's like a little clockwork itself, and I love this about switzerland, I feel safe and "taken care of", in a strange way. I don't want to moralize here, or even sound naive – really not – but sometimes, when I read/hear about people living in countries where they have war, I think: THIS IS PARADISE. And paradise does not mean everything has to be perfect, it's ok, if it's nearly perfect. Amen! :D

I guess according to Laura the trains in Italy are a lot cleaner and more punctual than Switzerland. Mind you, I'm only basing this one where she said she was from. She may have grown up in a country more efficient than here. Laura, would you care to comment?

About putting feet on seats, leaving litter and your 20 mins newspaper, which you didn't want to read anyway, is not country or cultural specific.

It's the "Macdonald's Generation" where it's become socially acceptable to eat your main meal of the day on a packed commuter train or a number nine bus.

But however hard the cleaning staff try to keep the trains clean, I will never, repeat NEVER, get used to going to the loo and having a 100kpm wind blowing up my arse whilst shitting directly onto the tracks. 

Just wrong.....

whaaaat ? trains in italy cleaner than in CH ? Are you sure you have travelled in Italy ? Because I have: awfull.

Apart from agreeing with you on this one, you really cracked me up, Carolyn!

I didn't have on mind Italian trains which, btw, the one I take from my city to Milan has always been punctual even if coming from about 800 Kms far away. I DIDN'T say trains are cleaner or more punctual than here. I didn't mention Italy at all. Just because I am Italian you thought I was talking about Italy. OH LORD.

I'VE JUST SAID I've worked in Nyon and EVERY DAY FOR A YEAR I took the train from Lausanne at 07.48. 8 times out of 10 this train left AT LEAST at 07.52. To me this is LATE. This is MY every day experience and not based on what people says/think about Switzerland.

And btw I lived 4 years in London and 4 years in Amsterdam. In this last location trains are for sure much cleaner than here and much more punctual as well.

*** I am responsible of what I say not what people understand (in this case, assume) ***

Dear Laura:

Why are you getting so steamed up?  It isn’t worth it nor is it good for your blood pressure.

But I would add that many of the contributors to Forum threads are not native anglophones.  They are writing in a language that is not their own and this can inadvertently lead to misunderstandings.  So we all (including me) have to try to be tolerant and not take offence at the slightest indication of “criticism”

Agreed, that’s easier said than done, but do let’s try.  There are enough conflicts going on elsewhere without stirring up strife on glocals.

Best wishes, R.

The SHIT really hit the fan.... hahahahaha... Imagine...

The umbrella was a nice touch!

shit rains.

a+ for the post. 

Interesting thread.

To be honest, I am much less worried about people putting their feet on the seats than I am about people using their hands holding on to the posts or pressing the button to open the doors! When you sit on the potentially contaminated seat you are wearing clothes and can go home and wash them. But have you got any idea how many germs are spread by hands that have touched any number of contaminated surfaces, have been sneezed and coughed into, or fingers that have picked noses and scratched bums?

(sigh, sometimes I just can't help myself.)

Laura C: "*** I am responsible of what I say not what people understand (in this case, assume) ***"

Communication is not a one-way street. To think that simply by saying something is enough for everyone to understand *perfectly* what you meant is naive or pretentious.

As a simple example, that one sentence you wrote has some errors in it, which could lead someone to misunderstand what you said/meant. 

I've read and re-read what you wrote earlier and while I believe I know what you meant, it was by no means obvious upon first reading.

In your defense, you never said anything about the Italian trains or train system. Then again, you didn't say *what* you were comparing your Swiss train experience to. In order to say "That Swiss trains are the most punctual...is b/s..." with any believability, one has to *assume* that you have experience with other train systems outside of Switzerland.

I think it's fair for anyone to guess (or assume), without any other reason to think otherwise, that your other experience *might* be based on where you are from, until stated otherwise.

But, in the end, regardless of what people write, who agrees or disagrees with you, who's "right" or who's "wrong"...... using the word "retarded" is inappropriate and does not lend itself to constructive conversation.

too long didn't read....

You can't make this shit up....

(Just another reminder of excellent customer service here in Candyland...hahahahahahahha....)

I feel quite excited about only having to shit out the SBB toilet at 100 kmh directly onto the tracks with the wind blowing up my arse.......but if I was "that woman" then why would you wait 2 months to complain - why wouldn't you get off the train, go into your nearest SBB/CFF office and shake yourself like a dog over the nearest SBB/CFF officer?????

THEN you'd (maybe) get some customer service!

I am guest in this country and I have been living here for 13 years and I have to say that I think we are being a bit harsh on the swiss. They are decent and reserved and I personally have not experienced any discrimination in this country, the police is respectfully, the trims run on time, the busses are excellent. 

i have lived in 5 different countries and this is by far the country thAt I feel safe and most important I feel at home.

i agree that putting feet on chairs is disrespectful but this happens everywhere, the swiss are non confrontational which is in my view a good thing but one thing for sure when they see an injustice, they speak up and I have many examples that I am happy to share.

I hope tht I don't offend anyone, this is not my intention

Oh thank you Bellah, cause I am swiss (nobody is perfect !).

As you say I also feel we are more respectuous to other people than what I have experienced in different countries. We still like the "polite way" in CH. Having worked with people from France (for instance) they are far more cruel and agressiv...

Swiss people might be less superficial and laugh lesse, but they are serious and reliant. Nobody is perfect !

Thanks Carolyn. Now how am I going to get rid of this image in my head. 

Good point about the French, but seems contrarary to some other parts of the argument.

If you review the article, you will note that she complained twice. The first time she got the umbrella (--- ella- ella...) and the generous 10chf travel voucher... which I am certain the train officials felt was quite an extraordinary recompense. So, having got shat upon literally, she got 'shit' the second time from the company....

She only got results after going public with her complaint. 

What a horrid little place we live, people putting feet on seats, trains being 2 minutes late, free toilet showers...pffff...

I was 14 first time I was on a train back in the old country. The bus was 2 hours faster, and I had to stand the entire 5 hour journey in the smoking cabin. 

My wife just this week has taken a train journey from Eastern Slovakia to Vienna. Takes me 4 hours to drive, took her 8 hours, 2 trains, 2 temporary buses to do the same. 

So quit your bitching, you should be happy with the awesome 1st world services on offer. Even the acclaimed German system is a child compared to the Swiss systems. 

100% efficiency is only successful when no humans are involved.  

Swiss trains are great, but not always on time admittedly. If you miss a connection at one of the main hubs (which is where most connections happen) then you only wait max 30 mins for the next train.In a car, if there is an accident, you often wait longer than that.

What really impresses me is that there is usually physical redundancy in the infrastructure, meaning that if there is a problem, then the trains don't just wait like cars on the motorway, they are re-routed. A bit like going off the moterway and taking the national road but way more efficient.

Thumbs up to the CFF from me!

Why no one complains about CIGARETTE BUTT on the street and on the rails!??

People smoke in front of you, beside you and everywhere (although out door, you are still bothered by the smoke) and at the train platform. Once the train comes, they just habitually throw the butt away on the floor.

So, Swiss cleanness, I doubt…

My understanding is that people don’t blame on feet on seat, butt on street, probably they think there are more serious problems than those issues.

Be cool…

Cheers,

Dirty seats and human feces aside, most of us are here are expats. So remember where you came from, why you are here (benefits-costs-tradeoffs) and stop complaining about the little things.

oh yea. 4 minutes is not late.

Good point Jimmy, but one that can only be applied to smokers.

It is strange how littering seems to be acceptable in this one specific case.

Does anyone remember when it was spitting that bothered us and that seemed to be acceptable to some?

Indeed, all is relative

Regardless of Swiss or not swiss, people need to know more about "Germs" if thats the concern. As someone pointed out before, the buttons you press to open doors of buses and trains have far more germs than a seat where you sit with your clothes. Sometimes browsing books in libraries or book shops I sit on the floor and everyone walk on that floor. I dont know why it is such a big concern? You open the train door full of germs and the next thing you do is take out your phone and start tapping the screen. You have more germs on your screen than on the seat someone had his feet on ;) 

I still spit when I run. Don't be culturally insensitive.

You should be forced to carry a small black plastic bag like dog owners do now;-)

Give me a break about the germs guys.... We need germs to live - what doesn't kill you makes you stronger. The human race is doomed - there comes a time we are so doped up on anti biotics that a normal little bug will kill us. Just wash your hands with soap... voila... And stop being worried about bacteria. Live a bit. Go to the toilet in the train and let the wind blow along your a..e.... (*thanks Carolyn - still not gone that Image;-))

Because male dogs pee on columns. You are not likely to step on the urine left on and around a column.

In the Greek army? Me too, but you compare uncombarable situation dude!

Smoking at bus stops in another strong issue! You are jam-packed on a rainy day under a bus stop shelter and some puff their smoke straight in to your face!
Yes, there are more serious problems, but shouldn't we start solving the small ones first? To rephrase it: noneone started with heroine or LSD; usually a "healthy" marijuana joint gets you into the habbit :-(

The Swiss should stand up and say what they thing is right more often! I really doubt if it is politeness or shyness at some cases. The SWISS train system is one of the best in the world. The Swiss first ought to keep it this way for their own shake and for the shake of all of us who live here (and pay our fare to travel).

At several times I 've seen incidents that collide with the image this country promotes (e.g. Swiss tourism ads). I could stand up and complain, no matter if the "offender" is Swiss or not, but I am hesitant because I am a foreigner. Couple of times I was almost taunted as e.g. the Swiss ticket conductor teamed-up with the Swiss "offender" against me, the "Auslander" who DARED to complain! Swiss or foreinger, in e.g a train, we are all equal as long as we both pay to travel. Isn't it?

Ok, Mona! If you believe that your soles have less germs that your iPad, I rest my case :-)

Is anyone really concerned about absorbing germs through their arse on a train or bus seat?  is it even possible?

Surely the issue is cleanliness rather than infection.  If you are wearing neat / expensive / light coloured clothes you don't want to end up with something sticky on them that someone has trodden onto a seat.

On train time keeping,  unlike the Swiss, the Brits are totally delusional about their timekeeping.  Took this photo at Putney Station on Saturday at the SAME time as the following announcement:

"Welcome to South West Trains.  There are no foreseen delays to today's services".   

When they should have said "The train's will turn up, as usual, when they want, if they want, the seat's will still be covered in Friday night's rubbish and the toilets will be out of order" (although some may see that as a bonus!).

  Yey absolutely hilarious thread! My! My! did my colleagues and I have a good hearty laugh this morning when I showed the thread. First they didn't quite understand the topic but then could not leave their monitors. The OP is a gem!!! Man you should write more often as you truly cheer people up. 

One israely colleague of mine commented that last time the Swiss (actually the genevans) stood for their ground on a ludicrous matter of incivility it degenerated in a dirty war with Libya (hostage taking etc)... hence one may perhaps understand a healthy reluctance to create unprofitable trouble with uncontrollable idiots such as hormone-driven teenagers and obnoxious strangers... yeah those guys from Lugano-east that live in odd-numbered houses (is that Colina d'Oro bdw?)

Mysophobia: first coined by Dr William Alexander Hammond  in 1879

First world problems