I always wondered about that...how would the controllers know if I bought the ticket before I got on the bus, or 2 min after I got on the bus? (assuming they arrive 10 min after I got on the bus)

Good point Nir..I imagine the time stamp on the message may well have a bearing..who knows huh ??

It probably has some kind of barcode. The controller scanned it with his smartphone before showing the screen to the girl.

Isn't the point of getting the ticket via SMS about convenience? (and to a certain extent, to encourage people to get a ticket without having to fuss with coins)

I mean, regardless if she bought the ticket in the bus or before boarding, the controllers, just by showing up, did "force" her to buy a ticket, right?

Which means they really shouldn't fine her since she did buy a ticket after all.

Also, what if your phone got disconnected from the network at one point or another while you were purchasing your ticket, before boarding the bus, but then the bus came (and it's one of those buses that arrive every 30 minutes) Do you just not get in the bus because you did not get the sms confirmation?  And when the confirmation finally goes through and they scan your time stamp, what happens then?  Do you get fined? 

Their thing is essentially flawed.  Either they trust the people to get an SMS ticket or not.  If they get the ticket, regardless of before or while in the bus shouldn't matter.

If they get the ticket while the controllers are boarding, it shouldn't matter, they still purchased the ticket.  If the controllers never boarded and they never purchased the ticket, the controllers would never know anyway.  If they wanted to catch people red-handed and always fine them, then why provide the SMS service?  It's counter-productive and gives customers a feeling of injustice.

I get a monthly pass and I've gotten caught several times at the beginning of the month, often the next day when my monthly pass expired, simply because I forgot to purchase my renewal, and I always found it unjust, considering the amount of people who don't buy their ticket. You can discuss with the controllers all day long about how it slipped your mind and that you have always bought your monthly ticket religiously etc.. but they will still fine you, regardless of your track record.  They simply don't care.  I always just sucked it up and moved on. With this SMS system, I thought they were finally moving toward some sort of technological progress, but then they'll check the time stamp?  It's ridiculous.

There's a really simple solution to all this.  Like all other buses in the world, 1 entrance, 1 exit.  You don't pay, you don't get on.  Done deal.

If they trust people to pay for their ticket, then why reinforce it so strictly?  You either trust them or you don't.  If you don't, then no ticket=no bus ride, simple.  That probably means a crapload of controllers without a job, but at least they'll be sure people that board their buses pay for their ticket.

Or is that the biggest fear?  That if they make bus fares mandatory, no one would take the bus?

Would be useful to find out how they know if you bought the ticket on the bus.  I would think this is a case that the controllers got on the bus at the stop after she got on becuase the bar code cannot show you where you boght the ticket. 

I buy my ticlet as I am going down the lift to avoid this problem (well that is what I intend)

The comment about whether you get cut off from the network while buying - that is your reposnisbility.  In such a case have cash handy

Also remember you must have enough juice in your battery to last the journey.  Not sure what happens but presume you get fined but have the hassle of going to a TPG sales point to obtain a reimbursement.

It is not really difficult to buy a ticket: there is phone; there is cash; there i a prepaid card; there is your credit card.  What more do you want - thought purchase directly linked to your bank account?

Remember also it is the same on the train but if you tell the ticket inspector in advance I think you just have to pay a 5 franc admin fee. 

Having said all that I often still end up buying my ticket on the bus - usually because I type in an incorrect code and have to redo it.

Normally I buy mmy ticket while walking

Hmm, interesting one. I regularly buy my ticket on the bus/tram for the simple reason that it's been bloody cold and i have to take off my gloves and my glasses, get out my phone, enter the unlock code, etc etc. Okay, so not quite so simple, but the point is that it's much easier and more comfortable to do that sitting down on the bus or tram than outside in the cold, wet and windy weather. If I have to do all that before getting on, then it's almost certainly easier to buy a ticket at the machine.

I always assumed this would be okay and for me the main benefit of using the sms service is that i dont have to fiddle about trying to put coins in the machine in a hurry when the tram is waiting, when inevitably the coins are rejected (i'm sure the driver has a remote control) and reinserted, only to finally get a ticket just as the bus/tram doors shut.

Just in case, there's big stickers on buses doors, in english, saying tickets have to be buy BEFORE bording, so you can't say you didn't know...

For once, they thought to expats.... 

your logic doesn't make sense. 

the tpg objective is to ensure you buy a ticket, regardless if controllers are on the bus or not. so allowing people to buy a ticket just when they see the controllers doesn't align with the objective. 

i agree however that allowing people to but the ticket just a few minutes after they settled into the bus makes good sense. 

Mark

I do not see how you can differentiate between buying after settling in and buying if you see the controller.  What happens if the controller is already on the bus when you get on?

Maybe the TPG should use the tactics of the London Underground where there is a great warning notice

Question: How do you recognise a ticke inspector?

answer: easy - he just looks like everbody else

How can you argue that you always buy your monthly season ticket religiously if you have been caught several times because you forgot to renew it on time?

Even atheists can have religious tendencies but on different days of the month and it cause confusion

And so does describing ticket inspectors as “controllers”.

If the objective is to ensure you buy a ticket, why not just have everyone pay.  As it is, there are people who never buy a ticket, sms or not.  If there's one entrance and you have to pay before being allowed to board, wouldn't that ensure all passengers pay?

Ritchie,

Regardless if I did get caught several times, I still do buy my monthly pass religiously.. I simply sometimes forgetto do so before the end of my pass' validity.  Surely doing so is better for geneva than not buying a ticket allthe time, regardless I am fined for being forgetful rather than willfully not paying my ticket.

My point is, the tpg obviously knows not everyone buys a ticket, so in effect they are counting on it so that they can fine them, regardless if they normally buy a pass but forgot, or if they never usually buy a ticket.  If the point was to have everyone on the bus purchase a ticket, it wouldn't matter if they purchased the ticket in the bus or before boarding.  The price of the ticket doesn't change.  If the point was to make a passenger buy a ticket, didn't the ticket inspectors actually achieve that when this woman sent her sms? So why fine her then?  Because fining her brings in more money than simply allowing her to pay the ticket.

If you can't be assed to pay with coins, you wouldn't pay with sms either.  The sms payment is not to encourage people to buy tickets, its still the same people who already pay their tickets that would use it.  Its just a bigger bait for those who dont, so they can be fined.

In theory, yes, but can you imagine the queue in the street waiting to board a tram in the pouring rain during the rush hour?

I think the TPG’s original aim when introducing the present purchasing system was to speed up the journey time while counting on users’ fair play.  However, the temptation to get a free ride has proved too great, especially for folk who actually enjoy getting away with it.

The TPG has always been an inhomogeneous entity, seemingly incapable of establishing customer-friendly relations.  Innovations are introduced without  in-depth examination and then trumpeted with clumsy and indequate public information.

It’s only recently that the website has been at all manageable and now, with great tra-la-la, there is even an English version!  Whatever did the anglophnone community do before?  Could it be that TPG hadn’t known we were actually using public transport?

As for the ticket inspectors, I have long suspected that they are hired on their ability to clock up brownie points when they catch an offender.  Have you noticed the gleam in their eyes when they book the miscreant?  Perhaps there’s a “booker” prize at Christmas for the inspector with the biggest haul.

R.

hey - they are not all bad. A couple of years ago I was on the bus with my daughter and she had forgotten to atheistically renew her monthly pass and was quite happlily giving her details but when it came to date of birth which she gave, the controller siad but it's your birthday today and tore up the ticket.

Moral do not have a cheapskate for a father you goes out with his daugthter on the bus

I still keep a letter from the TPG apologising for the inconvenience caused because a ticket machine was broken and I was sropped withpout a ticket.

Quite honestly I cannot see any particular problem

you're confusing the objective with the system. 

the objective is to make everyone pay. 

but moving to a system where the driver takes the money through just 1 door is a certain operational system that has major limitations which are not linked to the objective;

- it means tpg has to provide each driver with lots of cash for change, security measures for keeping the cash safe, a way for the cash to be relieved from the driver each days, etc

- it means passamgers will have to wait much longer before getting on and off the bus. imagine rush hour at 18h, on a sub zero winter day, and it takes 5 minutes to board the bus. 

you following asumption is 100% wrong: "If you can't be assed to pay with coins, you wouldn't pay with sms either. " 

i can't be bothered to pay with the old coin system so i often took the risk of getting caught. i just didn't have the change on me, or the time.

with the sms system paying became very simple, and i pay each time. 

so if the tpg objective was to increase the number of people who pay (while simplifying the process), they met it spot on for people like me. 

I find some of these arguments very bizarre. You have to pay to use the tram/bus. If the time on your ticket says 2 minutes ago and the last stop was e.g. 10 minutes ago then it is pretty obvious - you didn't have a valid ticket for all your journey. 

But if you got in at one stop, then bought your ticket and then only met a ticket inspector four stops later, I am assuming they would have no way of telling you had travelled a few metres without a ticket and therefore you would not get fined.

However, when I use the tram it is invariably with a two year old in tow, so I do tend to buy as soon as I am board where it is safer to be fumbling around with a phone. Hmmm - something to think about

I would tend to agree that if you lie and say you got on the stop after you had bought the ticket you should get away with it unless a conscientous passenger disputes this

On the train - no you can be liable for a fine because the train leaves at a specific time and you must buy before that time or contact a ticket inspector before boarding the train

There is a trhead where somebody complained about being fined

On a nicer note I sat oposite a Swedish gentleman on thje train from Lausanne  today.  We were in second class but he had a first class ticket.  The inspector told him if he wanted first class he could move up the train but it meant moving 5 carriages with luggage.  The gentleman stayed put and the inspector agreed that htis was sensible.  He then spent 2  minutes making a calculation and issued a voucher with a value of 5 francs, valid for one year for drkinks snakcs on an train or station buffet.

I could not believe it: it was not the CFF fault and it was a really nice gesture.  I know you can upgrade to first class on the train at any point on a journey but I did not kmnow you could voluntarily downgrade.  How civilised!