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Advice on threatening locksmith behavior

Hi all,


I had a very negative experience with a locksmith this weekend. He was very vague about the costs of unlocking a door over the phone, so when he arrived at my building I asked for clarification and the exact breakdown of the fees. When I responded that I could not accept that, he said that since he already arrived at the building, it didn't matter if I agreed with the costs or not, that he would still bill me the full cost regardless since he had already come.


Does anyone know if there was any legal basis for this, given that I hadn't signed anything at that point? What entity in Geneva can I approach for advice on how to be reimbursed for these costs, and to prevent this locksmith from cheating others in the future?


Thanks in advance for your time!


Melissa

The text you are quoting:

Hi all,


I had a very negative experience with a locksmith this weekend. He was very vague about the costs of unlocking a door over the phone, so when he arrived at my building I asked for clarification and the exact breakdown of the fees. When I responded that I could not accept that, he said that since he already arrived at the building, it didn't matter if I agreed with the costs or not, that he would still bill me the full cost regardless since he had already come.


Does anyone know if there was any legal basis for this, given that I hadn't signed anything at that point? What entity in Geneva can I approach for advice on how to be reimbursed for these costs, and to prevent this locksmith from cheating others in the future?


Thanks in advance for your time!


Melissa


Melissa WJan 29, 2017 @ 11:20
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 1

Dear Melissa,


I really feel for you with what happened. Sucks frankly, and sometimes these sort of things can happen with systems here, and on occasion some threatening/intimidating behaviour - perhaps more so with single women - depending on the region.


One option is to check with CSP https://csp.ch/ for juridique advice (free, but a pain to get an appointment and limited assistance).


I understand your desire for justice and wanting to prevent it happening to someone else, but sometimes I have found in Switzerland, you have to weigh the amount of energy it might require to challenge and change something, and the possibility of success; sigh, pay, shrug it off as wrong, move on, and accept that some things don't work as they should.


I am sorry for what you experienced. Perhaps someone else can give you more specific/better advice.


In general if someone is vague about prices, I would be wary of accepting an appointment, and try another number; easily said in hindsight:/


Wishing you the very best,


Elizabeth

The text you are quoting:

Dear Melissa,


I really feel for you with what happened. Sucks frankly, and sometimes these sort of things can happen with systems here, and on occasion some threatening/intimidating behaviour - perhaps more so with single women - depending on the region.


One option is to check with CSP https://csp.ch/ for juridique advice (free, but a pain to get an appointment and limited assistance).


I understand your desire for justice and wanting to prevent it happening to someone else, but sometimes I have found in Switzerland, you have to weigh the amount of energy it might require to challenge and change something, and the possibility of success; sigh, pay, shrug it off as wrong, move on, and accept that some things don't work as they should.


I am sorry for what you experienced. Perhaps someone else can give you more specific/better advice.


In general if someone is vague about prices, I would be wary of accepting an appointment, and try another number; easily said in hindsight:/


Wishing you the very best,


Elizabeth


ElizabethMH H, Jan 29, 2017 @ 12:58
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 2

Having had problems with SOS locksmiths myself in 2015 (who I would not recommend these days as they were dishonest with me), could you name the locksmith you had this problem with, so we all know to avoid them? 

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Having had problems with SOS locksmiths myself in 2015 (who I would not recommend these days as they were dishonest with me), could you name the locksmith you had this problem with, so we all know to avoid them? 


TogJay, Jan 29, 2017 @ 15:12
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 3

Sound like a good, constructive dea. String 'em up if you can - or at least avoid them.


Hope you have better expereiences in the future.

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Sound like a good, constructive dea. String 'em up if you can - or at least avoid them.


Hope you have better expereiences in the future.


ElizabethMH H, Jan 29, 2017 @ 17:07
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 4

Dear Hunter and TogJay,


 


Thanks very much for your responses - it is unfortunate that this behavior is more systematic than I anticipated, but at least it's making me feel less alone in struggling with this experience. 


When I called to complain to the SOS Hotline operator (based in Zurich), they suggested I send an email to [email protected] with the issue to at least inform the hotline that I had a problem. I do not know what kind of answer I can expect back - likely no refund - but hopefully they'll at least call me so I can ask who has oversight.


The locksmith's information is as follows - do avoid him if at all possible!


Locksmith: Herr Djordje Ilicic, Kemptalstrasse 1, CH-8320 Fehraltorf, +41 79 431 39 49


Company: Schluesselservice VAT Gmbh, Herr Zoran Mijucic, Dorfstrasse 100, CHmobile 


Just to help others, here are more details on the situation. Three times I made clear verbally that I did not accept the terms of the service and that I wished that the technician would simply leave. He countered this each time using the following arguments: 
1) He would mail me the bill anyway for just arriving at the building, and the cost of the bill would amount to the cost of the service. I would have serious fines if I did not pay the bill within a reasonable timeframe. He actually took photos of my mailbox with his phone to make this threat appear more credible.
2) I should have known the high cost of the service before calling for a technician in the first place given the high cost of living in Geneva so it should not come as a surprise. Thus, why should he have taken it upon himself to explain over the phone (he used insulting words to convey this). Given the fact that there is no exact pricing listed online, I do not know where I could have found this information beforehand, but I see now that I should have refused to give him my address until he clarified all details, meaning not just the base fee but also the after-hours cost and all other incidentals (total amounted to around 600 chf). They seem to be on a strict "won't give any information that isn't asked about" policy so I suppose you would really need to dig to get all the details in advance.
3) The exact/total cost depends on the difficulty of opening the door, so he said if I show him the door he could give me the total. This of course created a security risk for me since by showing him the door I would be letting a locksmith know which apartment can be easily broken into, and thus I had no choice but to proceed with the service instead of simply leave the apartment unoccupied until I could obtain a spare key.
 
In the future if this happens with a technician, should I just call the police to escort him away?
 
Fingers crossed we are luckier in the future!
 
Thanks again.
 
The text you are quoting:

Dear Hunter and TogJay,


 


Thanks very much for your responses - it is unfortunate that this behavior is more systematic than I anticipated, but at least it's making me feel less alone in struggling with this experience. 


When I called to complain to the SOS Hotline operator (based in Zurich), they suggested I send an email to [email protected] with the issue to at least inform the hotline that I had a problem. I do not know what kind of answer I can expect back - likely no refund - but hopefully they'll at least call me so I can ask who has oversight.


The locksmith's information is as follows - do avoid him if at all possible!


Locksmith: Herr Djordje Ilicic, Kemptalstrasse 1, CH-8320 Fehraltorf, +41 79 431 39 49


Company: Schluesselservice VAT Gmbh, Herr Zoran Mijucic, Dorfstrasse 100, CHmobile 


Just to help others, here are more details on the situation. Three times I made clear verbally that I did not accept the terms of the service and that I wished that the technician would simply leave. He countered this each time using the following arguments: 
1) He would mail me the bill anyway for just arriving at the building, and the cost of the bill would amount to the cost of the service. I would have serious fines if I did not pay the bill within a reasonable timeframe. He actually took photos of my mailbox with his phone to make this threat appear more credible.
2) I should have known the high cost of the service before calling for a technician in the first place given the high cost of living in Geneva so it should not come as a surprise. Thus, why should he have taken it upon himself to explain over the phone (he used insulting words to convey this). Given the fact that there is no exact pricing listed online, I do not know where I could have found this information beforehand, but I see now that I should have refused to give him my address until he clarified all details, meaning not just the base fee but also the after-hours cost and all other incidentals (total amounted to around 600 chf). They seem to be on a strict "won't give any information that isn't asked about" policy so I suppose you would really need to dig to get all the details in advance.
3) The exact/total cost depends on the difficulty of opening the door, so he said if I show him the door he could give me the total. This of course created a security risk for me since by showing him the door I would be letting a locksmith know which apartment can be easily broken into, and thus I had no choice but to proceed with the service instead of simply leave the apartment unoccupied until I could obtain a spare key.
 
In the future if this happens with a technician, should I just call the police to escort him away?
 
Fingers crossed we are luckier in the future!
 
Thanks again.
 
Melissa W, Jan 29, 2017 @ 17:50
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 5

Hello, Melissa:


You’ve had a very unpleasant encounter with someone who, given the nature of his work, should be more understanding when talking to a customer who needs his help in a hurry.  It’s inevitable that if a client’s door lock needs attention he/she is bound to feel vulnerable and anxious.


That said, I remember paying over CHF200 for a similar call-out some 25 years ago, so CHF600 these days could well be bout right.  And don’t forget that in many instances the call-out fee is fixed by a trade or professional body, so before confirming the order always ask how much you will be charged and whether you have to pay it on the spot.


Of course, there is nothing to stop you making a written complaint but send it by registered mail and perhaps you’ll let us know the locksmith’s response.


Meantime, best wishes that there’ll not be any repetition of such hassle,


Ritchie


 

The text you are quoting:

Hello, Melissa:


You’ve had a very unpleasant encounter with someone who, given the nature of his work, should be more understanding when talking to a customer who needs his help in a hurry.  It’s inevitable that if a client’s door lock needs attention he/she is bound to feel vulnerable and anxious.


That said, I remember paying over CHF200 for a similar call-out some 25 years ago, so CHF600 these days could well be bout right.  And don’t forget that in many instances the call-out fee is fixed by a trade or professional body, so before confirming the order always ask how much you will be charged and whether you have to pay it on the spot.


Of course, there is nothing to stop you making a written complaint but send it by registered mail and perhaps you’ll let us know the locksmith’s response.


Meantime, best wishes that there’ll not be any repetition of such hassle,


Ritchie


 


Ritchie, Jan 29, 2017 @ 21:14
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 6

Dear Ritchie,


Thanks for that context, it is very helpful. I am realising that I lack a broad understanding of how these types of services in Switzerland are priced, so at the very least this has been a learning experience.


After doing some research on the consumer protection services in Switzerland, I have also submitted a request for a price-comparison here: https://www.preisueberwacher.admin.ch/pue/fr/home.html. This link may be useful to others in the future. This should provide an objective review of whether the costs I was charged are in fact far above other cantons or technicians. I will update this thread once I hear back.


Best regards and thanks again for the support,


Melissa

The text you are quoting:

Dear Ritchie,


Thanks for that context, it is very helpful. I am realising that I lack a broad understanding of how these types of services in Switzerland are priced, so at the very least this has been a learning experience.


After doing some research on the consumer protection services in Switzerland, I have also submitted a request for a price-comparison here: https://www.preisueberwacher.admin.ch/pue/fr/home.html. This link may be useful to others in the future. This should provide an objective review of whether the costs I was charged are in fact far above other cantons or technicians. I will update this thread once I hear back.


Best regards and thanks again for the support,


Melissa


Melissa W, Jan 29, 2017 @ 22:16
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 7

When SOS Clés in Geneva changed my lock in 2015 it cost 300f.


In fact, there was no need to change the lock entirely, but that is a long story and if you think you can bear to read it . it's here  http://www.glocals.com/forums/geneva/where-how-in-geneva/Emergency-call-number--locksmith--232788.htm#msg_232886  A bit got cut off the end as I was tired when I wrote it and I didn't realise in time (hopefully we wil have an edit button at some point in time..), but I think its fairly clear.


I was going to put it up on the guides to warn people, but had forgotten about it. 

The text you are quoting:

When SOS Clés in Geneva changed my lock in 2015 it cost 300f.


In fact, there was no need to change the lock entirely, but that is a long story and if you think you can bear to read it . it's here  http://www.glocals.com/forums/geneva/where-how-in-geneva/Emergency-call-number--locksmith--232788.htm#msg_232886  A bit got cut off the end as I was tired when I wrote it and I didn't realise in time (hopefully we wil have an edit button at some point in time..), but I think its fairly clear.


I was going to put it up on the guides to warn people, but had forgotten about it. 


TogJay, Jan 29, 2017 @ 22:54
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 8

I don't have any specific advice in this situation, (except perhaps calling the FRC for advice) but I've heard several bad stories.


So excercise caution when dealing with them. Avoid those with names at the beginning of the alfabet. (Those are names created so that you will notice them first.)


To avoid having to call a locksmith, if at all possible, leave a spare key with a good friend, or in your office.

The text you are quoting:

I don't have any specific advice in this situation, (except perhaps calling the FRC for advice) but I've heard several bad stories.


So excercise caution when dealing with them. Avoid those with names at the beginning of the alfabet. (Those are names created so that you will notice them first.)


To avoid having to call a locksmith, if at all possible, leave a spare key with a good friend, or in your office.


tawb, Jan 29, 2017 @ 23:19
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 9

Hi all,

I had a very negative experience with a locksmith this weekend. He was very vague about the costs of unlocking a door over the phone, so when he arrived at my building I asked for clarification and the exact breakdown of the fees. When I responded that I could not accept that, he said that since he already arrived at the building, it didn't matter if I agreed with the costs or not, that he would still bill me the full cost regardless since he had already come.

Does anyone know if there was any legal basis for this, given that I hadn't signed anything at that point? What entity in Geneva can I approach for advice on how to be reimbursed for these costs, and to prevent this locksmith from cheating others in the future?

Thanks in advance for your time!

Melissa


Jan 29, 17 11:20

My regie charged me CHF 500 and the household insurance reimbursed it.


So CHF 600 out of office hours due to emergency is not much.


Would you mind and enlighten me why one would order services from a locksmith based on the German speaking part of Switzerland while needing help in Geneve? This looks very confusing to me.


 

The text you are quoting:

My regie charged me CHF 500 and the household insurance reimbursed it.


So CHF 600 out of office hours due to emergency is not much.


Would you mind and enlighten me why one would order services from a locksmith based on the German speaking part of Switzerland while needing help in Geneve? This looks very confusing to me.


 


Reka Y, Jan 30, 2017 @ 02:00
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 10

So, wait, I have questions:


1. He performed the services or not?


2. You paid him directly, or no?


If he came and you didn't agree with his pricing which you asked him repeatedly, he can't possibly bill you for "work" as he did no work. As he said himself, he doesn't know how much it will cost until he sees the door, but by that token, he doesn't know the price until he's done the work.

I can understand a call-out fee, but certainly that's not 600 CHF.


 

The text you are quoting:

So, wait, I have questions:


1. He performed the services or not?


2. You paid him directly, or no?


If he came and you didn't agree with his pricing which you asked him repeatedly, he can't possibly bill you for "work" as he did no work. As he said himself, he doesn't know how much it will cost until he sees the door, but by that token, he doesn't know the price until he's done the work.

I can understand a call-out fee, but certainly that's not 600 CHF.


 


Zonker, Jan 30, 2017 @ 11:20
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 11

I guess the lesson is:


If someone is threatening you with "I'll send the bill anyway," make them do it. Make them make the effort. Then you haven't lost any money (yet) while you figure out how to proceed and fight the issue.


 

The text you are quoting:

I guess the lesson is:


If someone is threatening you with "I'll send the bill anyway," make them do it. Make them make the effort. Then you haven't lost any money (yet) while you figure out how to proceed and fight the issue.


 


Zonker, Jan 30, 2017 @ 11:22
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Re: Advice on threatening locksmith behavior
Post 12

Having had problems with SOS locksmiths myself in 2015 (who I would not recommend these days as they were dishonest with me), could you name the locksmith you had this problem with, so we all know to avoid them? 


Jan 29, 17 15:12

Totally agree! Beware.

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Totally agree! Beware.


bearded09, Jan 31, 2017 @ 21:12
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