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Another “slumlord” Regie story, in the making

I was searching to find similar experiences to mine with my particular Regie, but found none. So I decided to share my own particular experience, for future reference.


Four months ago, in late July, the ceiling of my roof started leaking. It was imperceptible at first. A small puddle of water on the bathroom floor. Then some paint bubbling over on the ceiling.  The wall of the entry hall, where I hang my coat started to grow mold.  Then my wooden door wouldn’t lock. One day, I saw a note on my door that a plumber had entered my apartment while I was at work. I thought the Regie knowing the problem would contact me soon. Days passed and no word. I emailed them asking if they knew about the problem. They said they’re aware and someone would contact me. Another week passed, and I emailed them again, and this time, in a more terse tone they told me, “We are aware”. We have contacted the property manager”, “It’s holiday season in Geneva (it was august) so don’t expect a rapid response”.


I waited until mid-September for people to come back from holidays. No news. The leak had stopped, but dried paint chips were falling from the ceiling daily, mold would regrow on my wall after cleaning it with bleach, and the wooden door would not lock anymore, being deformed by the water leak.


Enough was enough, and I went to ASLOCA. The very polite lawyer wrote me a letter to send the Regie, by registered mail. In a very strong language it said, “fix problem, or I will take the issue to some competent authorities.  You have one month”. I felt like a five hundred pound gorilla dropping that mail off at the post-office.


One month passed and no answer. I went back to ASLOCA. They advised me to write another letter, this time saying I would stop paying rent and start paying to the Canton Finance office. I sent the new letter, giving another month.


Again, no answer from the Regie. I went to the cantonal office in the old town, and filled the forms and paid the first month rent there.  They advised that I need to have a court date to settle the issue. I went back to ASLOCA, and they told me it was best for me hire a lawyers for the court date. They were very polite about it…”because maybe with your French it might be easier to have one of us there” J  I paid the 400chf fee for the ASLOCA lawyer. Within a few days, ASLOCA wrote me saying the Regie says they never received my registered mail (Mind you, I had a post-office receipt). But they wanted to repair the damage, so I contacted them.


The Regie asked me to make an appointment with them so they would come and see the damage. Honestly, I was a annoyed by this. I mean, they have ignored my emails and mails for four months, and now I need to make an appointment at their convenient time to come to my apartment? What about a time convenient for me?  Anyway, I agreed to a date, which was this morning.  The Regie person came with painters, and a locksmith.  He asked the painters to paint the ceiling and over the mold. I told him that painting over the mold would just let it back again, and the wall paper needed to be replaced. But he insisted that the mold was not because of the leak, but because “you leave your wet clothes hanging on the wall”. And “you need to keep your windows open to air the apartment” (FYI, it’s -2 degrees today).  I was speechless.


He then proceeded to fiddle with the door, trying to fix it himself. When he couldn’t do it, he unscrewed one of the screws that looked different than the others, and he said, “you put this screw here, it was not there before”.  Now I was insulted.


Anyway, I have my court date next Monday, so I’ll update again after that, to let you know how it ends.  ASLOCA is asking them to rebate me 30% of my rent during the months when there were damages.  It should at least cover my lawyer fees, registered mails, time taken from work to go to various offices and experts; But nothing, i'm afraid, will redeem this wasted worried experience with the slumlord.


TBC...

The text you are quoting:

I was searching to find similar experiences to mine with my particular Regie, but found none. So I decided to share my own particular experience, for future reference.


Four months ago, in late July, the ceiling of my roof started leaking. It was imperceptible at first. A small puddle of water on the bathroom floor. Then some paint bubbling over on the ceiling.  The wall of the entry hall, where I hang my coat started to grow mold.  Then my wooden door wouldn’t lock. One day, I saw a note on my door that a plumber had entered my apartment while I was at work. I thought the Regie knowing the problem would contact me soon. Days passed and no word. I emailed them asking if they knew about the problem. They said they’re aware and someone would contact me. Another week passed, and I emailed them again, and this time, in a more terse tone they told me, “We are aware”. We have contacted the property manager”, “It’s holiday season in Geneva (it was august) so don’t expect a rapid response”.


I waited until mid-September for people to come back from holidays. No news. The leak had stopped, but dried paint chips were falling from the ceiling daily, mold would regrow on my wall after cleaning it with bleach, and the wooden door would not lock anymore, being deformed by the water leak.


Enough was enough, and I went to ASLOCA. The very polite lawyer wrote me a letter to send the Regie, by registered mail. In a very strong language it said, “fix problem, or I will take the issue to some competent authorities.  You have one month”. I felt like a five hundred pound gorilla dropping that mail off at the post-office.


One month passed and no answer. I went back to ASLOCA. They advised me to write another letter, this time saying I would stop paying rent and start paying to the Canton Finance office. I sent the new letter, giving another month.


Again, no answer from the Regie. I went to the cantonal office in the old town, and filled the forms and paid the first month rent there.  They advised that I need to have a court date to settle the issue. I went back to ASLOCA, and they told me it was best for me hire a lawyers for the court date. They were very polite about it…”because maybe with your French it might be easier to have one of us there” J  I paid the 400chf fee for the ASLOCA lawyer. Within a few days, ASLOCA wrote me saying the Regie says they never received my registered mail (Mind you, I had a post-office receipt). But they wanted to repair the damage, so I contacted them.


The Regie asked me to make an appointment with them so they would come and see the damage. Honestly, I was a annoyed by this. I mean, they have ignored my emails and mails for four months, and now I need to make an appointment at their convenient time to come to my apartment? What about a time convenient for me?  Anyway, I agreed to a date, which was this morning.  The Regie person came with painters, and a locksmith.  He asked the painters to paint the ceiling and over the mold. I told him that painting over the mold would just let it back again, and the wall paper needed to be replaced. But he insisted that the mold was not because of the leak, but because “you leave your wet clothes hanging on the wall”. And “you need to keep your windows open to air the apartment” (FYI, it’s -2 degrees today).  I was speechless.


He then proceeded to fiddle with the door, trying to fix it himself. When he couldn’t do it, he unscrewed one of the screws that looked different than the others, and he said, “you put this screw here, it was not there before”.  Now I was insulted.


Anyway, I have my court date next Monday, so I’ll update again after that, to let you know how it ends.  ASLOCA is asking them to rebate me 30% of my rent during the months when there were damages.  It should at least cover my lawyer fees, registered mails, time taken from work to go to various offices and experts; But nothing, i'm afraid, will redeem this wasted worried experience with the slumlord.


TBC...


potvoraDec 3, 2013 @ 20:29
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Re: Another “slumlord” Regie story, in the making
Post 1

Reading this stresses me out only because this uncivil practice is not a isolated situation. It's indecent behavior consistently practiced by companies (fitness clubs, regis..) and endured by everyone who lives in Geneva.


Best of luck to you. I hope the damages are huge.

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Reading this stresses me out only because this uncivil practice is not a isolated situation. It's indecent behavior consistently practiced by companies (fitness clubs, regis..) and endured by everyone who lives in Geneva.


Best of luck to you. I hope the damages are huge.


no.38, Dec 3, 2013 @ 23:04
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Post 2

Sounds like quite a nightmare, and my first question is this: Did you send the letters registered mail only or did you also get them sent by return receipt?


Have you contacted the Post Office to get delivery information on the two registered letters that you sent?


I agree with you that they should make an appointment at *your* convenience, but *you* need to make that point to them. If you don't say so, then they will make it at their convenience.


You should have ASLOCA request a 50% rebate for twice the amount of time, to send a message to the Régie.


By the way, who is the Régie or are you not allowed to say?


 

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Sounds like quite a nightmare, and my first question is this: Did you send the letters registered mail only or did you also get them sent by return receipt?


Have you contacted the Post Office to get delivery information on the two registered letters that you sent?


I agree with you that they should make an appointment at *your* convenience, but *you* need to make that point to them. If you don't say so, then they will make it at their convenience.


You should have ASLOCA request a 50% rebate for twice the amount of time, to send a message to the Régie.


By the way, who is the Régie or are you not allowed to say?


 


Zonker, Dec 3, 2013 @ 23:13
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Post 3

Sounds like Zimmermann to me.   You should aim to get costs which cover your lawyers fees and inconvenience.


Not sure if this is possible but ASLOCA are pretty tough on owners.  The regie of course represents the owner but a good regie is able to act as a sensible go between.  Do not accept proposals from the regie to settle out of court; let ASLOCA go for the jugulare. 


We took a regie to court because when we had a similar problem (bathroom wall and one cupboard) they gave us notice to quit. The result was complete refurshiment of the flat including new kitchen and two new bathrooms and a reduction in rent  

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Sounds like Zimmermann to me.   You should aim to get costs which cover your lawyers fees and inconvenience.


Not sure if this is possible but ASLOCA are pretty tough on owners.  The regie of course represents the owner but a good regie is able to act as a sensible go between.  Do not accept proposals from the regie to settle out of court; let ASLOCA go for the jugulare. 


We took a regie to court because when we had a similar problem (bathroom wall and one cupboard) they gave us notice to quit. The result was complete refurshiment of the flat including new kitchen and two new bathrooms and a reduction in rent  


Paul E, Dec 4, 2013 @ 09:58
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Re: Another “slumlord” Regie story, in the making
Post 4

Thanks all for responses.


@PauE, It's not Zimmermenn.  I'll wait until after the court date next monday to divulge their name.


ASLOCA asked the court for a 30% rebate on the rent while the damages remained unfixed. This surprised me, because I had not discussed any exact figure with them.  But somehow I sense even a 50% reduction would little affect the Regie. They have their building insurance and lawyers on payroll, so this is just a small itch. Which is why I guess they can put off repairing the damages for four months, hoping the tenant gives up and they have even less work to do.


I did discuss with ASLOCA about reducing the rent, as compensation, but they told me it would be a different procedure altogather, and I couldn't combine it with the resolving the issue with the water damage.


 

The text you are quoting:

Thanks all for responses.


@PauE, It's not Zimmermenn.  I'll wait until after the court date next monday to divulge their name.


ASLOCA asked the court for a 30% rebate on the rent while the damages remained unfixed. This surprised me, because I had not discussed any exact figure with them.  But somehow I sense even a 50% reduction would little affect the Regie. They have their building insurance and lawyers on payroll, so this is just a small itch. Which is why I guess they can put off repairing the damages for four months, hoping the tenant gives up and they have even less work to do.


I did discuss with ASLOCA about reducing the rent, as compensation, but they told me it would be a different procedure altogather, and I couldn't combine it with the resolving the issue with the water damage.


 


potvora, Dec 4, 2013 @ 10:21
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Re: Another “slumlord” Regie story, in the making
Post 5

100% Zimmermann!


Gave them notice four months ago,they accepted but last friday when we called them to hand over the keys! they said the person who was dealing with our appartment is away for holiday!so till 2015 i own the flat! by force by Zimmermann.

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100% Zimmermann!


Gave them notice four months ago,they accepted but last friday when we called them to hand over the keys! they said the person who was dealing with our appartment is away for holiday!so till 2015 i own the flat! by force by Zimmermann.


libby joseph, Dec 4, 2013 @ 10:50
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Post 6

Libby


I would speak to ASLOCA becauswe in my opinion you are entitled to leave but you could have problems with your deposit.  Z is regarded as a joke in the courts and has no respect from the other regies.  So those of you complaining about regies just bear in mind there is one worse than them


We have friends in a similar situation and they are (with the help of ASLOCA) refusing to pay.


We found the court very user friendly, the chairman making sure that we were OK with French before proceedings commenced. 


Potvora


We had three concurrent cases against Z to cover all events but this was based on ASLOCA advise. We had to pay lawyers fees which were quite reasonable and we have already recuperated them with the rent reduction. The flat was redesignated unfurnished and the furniture was sold to us for 1 franc.


The owners (a pension fund) changed regies after that and the current one is much better


 


 

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Libby


I would speak to ASLOCA becauswe in my opinion you are entitled to leave but you could have problems with your deposit.  Z is regarded as a joke in the courts and has no respect from the other regies.  So those of you complaining about regies just bear in mind there is one worse than them


We have friends in a similar situation and they are (with the help of ASLOCA) refusing to pay.


We found the court very user friendly, the chairman making sure that we were OK with French before proceedings commenced. 


Potvora


We had three concurrent cases against Z to cover all events but this was based on ASLOCA advise. We had to pay lawyers fees which were quite reasonable and we have already recuperated them with the rent reduction. The flat was redesignated unfurnished and the furniture was sold to us for 1 franc.


The owners (a pension fund) changed regies after that and the current one is much better


 


 


Paul E, Dec 4, 2013 @ 12:15
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Post 7

PaulE


After 10 years of staying in the apartment i dont see the deposit been refunded,thats why they are giving a year contract.


just caught when was almost leaving for holiday but a soon i get back straight to ASLOCA 


All the best to people who are sailling on the same boat!.

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PaulE


After 10 years of staying in the apartment i dont see the deposit been refunded,thats why they are giving a year contract.


just caught when was almost leaving for holiday but a soon i get back straight to ASLOCA 


All the best to people who are sailling on the same boat!.


libby joseph, Dec 4, 2013 @ 16:01
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Post 8

Potvora!


Next when the roof is leaking make sure they know and move in to a very good hotel!.


Once my kitchen was when i called them they complained i left the windows open when it was raining at the night,no power in the kitchen and i could see the water coming from the roof,so almost a day i called again saying if i dont see someone in one hour time am off to a very nice hotel with my family and they will receive the bill for refund.


Luckly they came and they could not deal with it,they booked an hotel for two days!

The text you are quoting:

Potvora!


Next when the roof is leaking make sure they know and move in to a very good hotel!.


Once my kitchen was when i called them they complained i left the windows open when it was raining at the night,no power in the kitchen and i could see the water coming from the roof,so almost a day i called again saying if i dont see someone in one hour time am off to a very nice hotel with my family and they will receive the bill for refund.


Luckly they came and they could not deal with it,they booked an hotel for two days!


libby joseph, Dec 4, 2013 @ 16:22
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Post 9



Well done, Libby! R.

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Well done, Libby! R.


Ritchie, Dec 4, 2013 @ 18:03
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Post 10

Just an update and closure on this story, I just go back from the court with the Regie, Alain Bordier & Cie SA, to settle the issue with the water leak in my flat.


The Regie adamently continued with their line that "we cannot be sure that the mold growing on the wall is due to the water leak, or the tenant leaving his wet clothes hanging on the wall".  I looked around the room to see the reaction. My lawyer rolled her eyes. The judge also didn't pursue the matter further, and moved to settle the costs.


@Zonker, It turns out that the 30% in reduced rent (during the 4 months damage was left unfixed) is the maximum one can ask for in such cases. The Regie's lawyer proposed 15% reduction, and the judge settled it at 17%.


The Regie also never explained why they didn't respond to my emails, and registered mails, except to say that they were "unable to reach me".  I sense that there was no regrets on their part for their poor communication and disregard for the tenant problems. There certainly was no apologies.


And just my own sense, but I think this process of taking the Regie to court will do little to change their behavior in the future incidences.  The one advantage is that the next time it happens, I "will not have to write two registered mails", according to ASLOCA. I just write one mail.

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Just an update and closure on this story, I just go back from the court with the Regie, Alain Bordier & Cie SA, to settle the issue with the water leak in my flat.


The Regie adamently continued with their line that "we cannot be sure that the mold growing on the wall is due to the water leak, or the tenant leaving his wet clothes hanging on the wall".  I looked around the room to see the reaction. My lawyer rolled her eyes. The judge also didn't pursue the matter further, and moved to settle the costs.


@Zonker, It turns out that the 30% in reduced rent (during the 4 months damage was left unfixed) is the maximum one can ask for in such cases. The Regie's lawyer proposed 15% reduction, and the judge settled it at 17%.


The Regie also never explained why they didn't respond to my emails, and registered mails, except to say that they were "unable to reach me".  I sense that there was no regrets on their part for their poor communication and disregard for the tenant problems. There certainly was no apologies.


And just my own sense, but I think this process of taking the Regie to court will do little to change their behavior in the future incidences.  The one advantage is that the next time it happens, I "will not have to write two registered mails", according to ASLOCA. I just write one mail.


potvora, Dec 9, 2013 @ 13:37
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Re: Another “slumlord” Regie story, in the making
Post 11

Thanks for giving the result. A win is stilll a win

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Thanks for giving the result. A win is stilll a win


Paul E, Dec 9, 2013 @ 14:44
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Post 12

My Interphones haven't worked since I moved in 16 months ago. I pointed this out to the focal point, and he told me to call the office since he's too busy. I had repairmen twice, and the last time, the guy left a hole in the wall and said he'd try to ask the regie to replace the old system. I waited another four months and sent another note. No response at all. You're not the only one, though it sounds like your experience is much worse.


 


As a side note, does anyone else worry about being kicked out of your place and not being able to find another apartment if you complain about/to the regie?

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My Interphones haven't worked since I moved in 16 months ago. I pointed this out to the focal point, and he told me to call the office since he's too busy. I had repairmen twice, and the last time, the guy left a hole in the wall and said he'd try to ask the regie to replace the old system. I waited another four months and sent another note. No response at all. You're not the only one, though it sounds like your experience is much worse.


 


As a side note, does anyone else worry about being kicked out of your place and not being able to find another apartment if you complain about/to the regie?


Catherine K, Dec 9, 2013 @ 16:38
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Re: Another “slumlord” Regie story, in the making
Post 13

Catherine


So long as you are registered with ASLOCA you should be OK.  If you read above, we were given notice to quit because we asked for a wall to be replastered. The notice to quit gives you a time in which to respond but always safe to check with ASLOCA

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Catherine


So long as you are registered with ASLOCA you should be OK.  If you read above, we were given notice to quit because we asked for a wall to be replastered. The notice to quit gives you a time in which to respond but always safe to check with ASLOCA


Paul E, Dec 9, 2013 @ 17:06
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