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Forums in Geneva > Geneva > Are taxes paid in Geneva according to the real total annual income?
 
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Are taxes paid in Geneva according to the real total annual income?

Hi!


If you start working in Geneva, e.g. on November, do you pay taxes for the first year


1) according to the two months (November+December) that you have worked (so probably nothing because it is in the low end of the progressive tax curve)


2) like you would have that same monthly salary for whole year (rationale maybe that you would have worked with similar salary before coming to Geneva - thus preventing potential misuse of working part of the year always in a different country?)


I know that Finland for example works like 1) but my experience in Geneva indicates that things work like 2) here. Can anybody confirm this? Thanks.


Seppo

The text you are quoting:

Hi!


If you start working in Geneva, e.g. on November, do you pay taxes for the first year


1) according to the two months (November+December) that you have worked (so probably nothing because it is in the low end of the progressive tax curve)


2) like you would have that same monthly salary for whole year (rationale maybe that you would have worked with similar salary before coming to Geneva - thus preventing potential misuse of working part of the year always in a different country?)


I know that Finland for example works like 1) but my experience in Geneva indicates that things work like 2) here. Can anybody confirm this? Thanks.


Seppo


Seppo HMay 11, 2012 @ 12:31
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Re: Are taxes paid in Geneva according to the real total annual income?
Post 1

Hello,


It works like #1


 


Cheers,


Leo

The text you are quoting:

Hello,


It works like #1


 


Cheers,


Leo


Leo F, May 11, 2012 @ 13:42
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Re: Are taxes paid in Geneva according to the real total annual income?
Post 2

When I moved here it was your option (2).

The text you are quoting:

When I moved here it was your option (2).


James d, May 11, 2012 @ 13:43
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Re: Are taxes paid in Geneva according to the real total annual income?
Post 3

To clarify a bit, you do pay like you mention in scenario #1 but for many of us common foreigners, taxes are charged at the source so it looks like you are paying based on scenario #2 but you will get it back next year when taxes for the whole year are calculated.


Leo

The text you are quoting:

To clarify a bit, you do pay like you mention in scenario #1 but for many of us common foreigners, taxes are charged at the source so it looks like you are paying based on scenario #2 but you will get it back next year when taxes for the whole year are calculated.


Leo


Leo F, May 11, 2012 @ 13:44
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Re: Are taxes paid in Geneva according to the real total annual income?
Post 4

It's option #2 which applies, both for the ordinary taxes and the taxation at source.


For the ordinary taxation, if you arrive in November and work two months in Switzerland, the taxes are calculated on the two months of salary, but at the rate which is converted over the full year (same rate as for a yearly salary). In case of a taxation at source, the rate is determined based on your monthly salary. In both cases, there is therefore no big advantage to work only a short period compared to the full year.

The text you are quoting:

It's option #2 which applies, both for the ordinary taxes and the taxation at source.


For the ordinary taxation, if you arrive in November and work two months in Switzerland, the taxes are calculated on the two months of salary, but at the rate which is converted over the full year (same rate as for a yearly salary). In case of a taxation at source, the rate is determined based on your monthly salary. In both cases, there is therefore no big advantage to work only a short period compared to the full year.


Per P, May 11, 2012 @ 16:02
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Re: Are taxes paid in Geneva according to the real total annual income?
Post 5

I have actually worked only two months in a year and I was charged as if that was my annual income. My taxes over that amount was 2% instead of 20% (or whatever the real number is). Which I still believe puts me in scenario #1.


I was taxed at source so I only realized it worked like that one year after when they did the balance.


This is just personal experience, of course, and I am not a lawyer/account. It is very easy to find out how it really works by going to the Hotel de Finances and ask them directly.

The text you are quoting:

I have actually worked only two months in a year and I was charged as if that was my annual income. My taxes over that amount was 2% instead of 20% (or whatever the real number is). Which I still believe puts me in scenario #1.


I was taxed at source so I only realized it worked like that one year after when they did the balance.


This is just personal experience, of course, and I am not a lawyer/account. It is very easy to find out how it really works by going to the Hotel de Finances and ask them directly.


Leo F, May 11, 2012 @ 18:11
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Re: Are taxes paid in Geneva according to the real total annual income?
Post 6

I had the same experience as Leo. 

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I had the same experience as Leo. 


Nir Ofek, May 11, 2012 @ 22:25
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Re: Are taxes paid in Geneva according to the real total annual income?
Post 7

Thank you all for the replies! For me it seems like our case would be same as yours Leo, so hopefully we get most of the taxes back when they calculate the yearly balance. I guess we don't have to really request the taxes back ourselves so we can just wait now (and maybe only visit the "hotel de finances" to get an official confirmation for this).

The text you are quoting:

Thank you all for the replies! For me it seems like our case would be same as yours Leo, so hopefully we get most of the taxes back when they calculate the yearly balance. I guess we don't have to really request the taxes back ourselves so we can just wait now (and maybe only visit the "hotel de finances" to get an official confirmation for this).


Seppo H, May 12, 2012 @ 10:29
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Re: Are taxes paid in Geneva according to the real total annual income?
Post 8

If someone arrives in Switzerland in November and works two months, the employer is supposed to withhold the tax based on the monthly or hourly rate and not based on the yearly rate (section 4.3.4 of the Geneva Guide in matter of taxation at source).


Please also note that some special rules apply if you are married, depending on the personal situation. In certain cases, the married rate can be used directly by the employer ("B" rate), if only one of the spouses work in Geneva, and in certain other cases, the employer will use the single rate ("A" rate), if both work in Geneva. In this last case, both revenues will be added after the end of the year and the "B rate" will apply to the joint revenues. It's why the employer will ask the employee to fill in a form which gives some information about the personal family situation.

The text you are quoting:

If someone arrives in Switzerland in November and works two months, the employer is supposed to withhold the tax based on the monthly or hourly rate and not based on the yearly rate (section 4.3.4 of the Geneva Guide in matter of taxation at source).


Please also note that some special rules apply if you are married, depending on the personal situation. In certain cases, the married rate can be used directly by the employer ("B" rate), if only one of the spouses work in Geneva, and in certain other cases, the employer will use the single rate ("A" rate), if both work in Geneva. In this last case, both revenues will be added after the end of the year and the "B rate" will apply to the joint revenues. It's why the employer will ask the employee to fill in a form which gives some information about the personal family situation.


Per P, May 16, 2012 @ 17:27
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Re: Are taxes paid in Geneva according to the real total annual income?
Post 9

Thanks again for the answers! I went now finally to the "hotel des finanses" to get also the official answer. The answer in this case (moving to Geneva on November and also starting to work then immediattely) was like you said Per: 2), i.e. they will tax you with a percentage that they calculate based on assumption that you would have earned that much for the whole year. So if you managed to work for two months, you pay taxes with percentage that is your (two month salary) x 6. Right amount of taxes were taken directly and no money will be returned in any point.


I was also thus confirmed in the "hotel des finanses" that married couples are taxed together and it seems in most cases more heavily than if both would be singles and working. It really seems that being married is penalised in Geneva. Quite unromantic but I guess some people might need to take divorce in Geneva to have enough money to live here.

The text you are quoting:

Thanks again for the answers! I went now finally to the "hotel des finanses" to get also the official answer. The answer in this case (moving to Geneva on November and also starting to work then immediattely) was like you said Per: 2), i.e. they will tax you with a percentage that they calculate based on assumption that you would have earned that much for the whole year. So if you managed to work for two months, you pay taxes with percentage that is your (two month salary) x 6. Right amount of taxes were taken directly and no money will be returned in any point.


I was also thus confirmed in the "hotel des finanses" that married couples are taxed together and it seems in most cases more heavily than if both would be singles and working. It really seems that being married is penalised in Geneva. Quite unromantic but I guess some people might need to take divorce in Geneva to have enough money to live here.


Seppo H, May 27, 2012 @ 22:34
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