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Biking in Geneva vs. elsewhere

Hi there Smile

I'm trying to use my good old bicycle again, which I haven't done for quite a while.
I used to bike in the Geneva countryside many years ago, never much downtonw, and a few times in the Netherlands, Germany, Italy also many years ago, and more recently in Zurich. And I felt  happy and safe.

Now I feel quite unsafe, also because of cars ... but mostly because of other bikes and scooters.

Is it just me ? Or is it that times have changed ? Or is biking in Geneva  particularly special compared to other cities ?

Thanks.

The text you are quoting:

Hi there Smile

I'm trying to use my good old bicycle again, which I haven't done for quite a while.
I used to bike in the Geneva countryside many years ago, never much downtonw, and a few times in the Netherlands, Germany, Italy also many years ago, and more recently in Zurich. And I felt  happy and safe.

Now I feel quite unsafe, also because of cars ... but mostly because of other bikes and scooters.

Is it just me ? Or is it that times have changed ? Or is biking in Geneva  particularly special compared to other cities ?

Thanks.


Catherine MFeb 1, 2023 @ 11:46
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Re: Biking in Geneva vs. elsewhere
Post 1

Hi Catherine


As a German I can confirm that Geneva is a bit more challenging. You have to familiarize yourself with the way the bike traffic is meant to flow. For example, from Petit-Lancy/Onex down to Jonction and further to Cornavin station there are some surprising turns. From Bel-Air to Stand there is a bicycle lane on the left side of the street (!) which makes me feel like I'm in England. 


Often it makes sense to look for a convenient route that may not always be the shortest one. There are some special bike routes in the more rural and village parts and it also works well along the rivers and the lake.


One thing Genevan traffic planners like a lot is to allow bikes to go the opposite direction in a one-way street and also to share a special lane with the bus. These are clever tricks, but the car drivers do not always know about them and will be surprised to see you going the other way. Using the bus lane can be scary when the bus is just behind you.


Still, with a bit of practice it is my favorite way of getting around in Geneva. There are also lots of places where you can swiftly pass by some chronic traffic jams that the cars are stuck in. Smile


 

The text you are quoting:

Hi Catherine


As a German I can confirm that Geneva is a bit more challenging. You have to familiarize yourself with the way the bike traffic is meant to flow. For example, from Petit-Lancy/Onex down to Jonction and further to Cornavin station there are some surprising turns. From Bel-Air to Stand there is a bicycle lane on the left side of the street (!) which makes me feel like I'm in England. 


Often it makes sense to look for a convenient route that may not always be the shortest one. There are some special bike routes in the more rural and village parts and it also works well along the rivers and the lake.


One thing Genevan traffic planners like a lot is to allow bikes to go the opposite direction in a one-way street and also to share a special lane with the bus. These are clever tricks, but the car drivers do not always know about them and will be surprised to see you going the other way. Using the bus lane can be scary when the bus is just behind you.


Still, with a bit of practice it is my favorite way of getting around in Geneva. There are also lots of places where you can swiftly pass by some chronic traffic jams that the cars are stuck in. Smile


 


Sven T, Feb 3, 2023 @ 07:46
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Re: Biking in Geneva vs. elsewhere
Post 2

Everywhere in Geneva there are possibilities of finding smaller roads with much less traffic.  problems include: bike lanes which suddenly stop especially when the road narrows which is just where you need a bike lane; bike lanes that run between the parked cars and the pavement (fortunatly not many) which must have been desiged by litigation lawyers; in such places often the pedestrian crossing the road the passenger opening the door are not aware of the possibility of the loegitimate presence of a cyclist.  Even though I cycle most places in Geneva, coming out of my locl Migros in Champel, I have to cross such a bike lane and I often forget to check for cyclists. And then there are the fun places - try to cross the Places de Neuve or Bel Air keeping to the cycle lanes and what to you do when a cycle lane finishes in the middle of the road!! You might ask why but the answer is obvious: the planners could not work out how to continue amd so they just decided not to continue with the paint (Bd des Philosophes near HUG). At least in appears that one of the interesting places where the cycle track gradually become narrower and narrower until it hit the kerb is no longer there (Pont du Mont Blanc

The text you are quoting:

Everywhere in Geneva there are possibilities of finding smaller roads with much less traffic.  problems include: bike lanes which suddenly stop especially when the road narrows which is just where you need a bike lane; bike lanes that run between the parked cars and the pavement (fortunatly not many) which must have been desiged by litigation lawyers; in such places often the pedestrian crossing the road the passenger opening the door are not aware of the possibility of the loegitimate presence of a cyclist.  Even though I cycle most places in Geneva, coming out of my locl Migros in Champel, I have to cross such a bike lane and I often forget to check for cyclists. And then there are the fun places - try to cross the Places de Neuve or Bel Air keeping to the cycle lanes and what to you do when a cycle lane finishes in the middle of the road!! You might ask why but the answer is obvious: the planners could not work out how to continue amd so they just decided not to continue with the paint (Bd des Philosophes near HUG). At least in appears that one of the interesting places where the cycle track gradually become narrower and narrower until it hit the kerb is no longer there (Pont du Mont Blanc


Paul E, Feb 3, 2023 @ 18:07
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Re: Biking in Geneva vs. elsewhere
Post 3

You may want to become member of Pro Vélo Genève, an association that works to improve the situation for cyclists.

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You may want to become member of Pro Vélo Genève, an association that works to improve the situation for cyclists.


Marvin S, Feb 3, 2023 @ 21:08
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Re: Biking in Geneva vs. elsewhere
Post 4

We currently live in Bern, my girlfriend lived in Geneva (Petit-Saconnex) for 5 years before and we intitially tried to cycle around Geneva and to cycle outside the city.


We found Geneva a nightmare for cycling, incredibly poor thought given to the safety of cyclists, almost zero respect from car drivers (french, especially), many motorbike riders and large capacity scooters (again, french often..) seem to see cycle lanes as "motorbike overtaking lanes" and what with their often excessive speed when doing this, means it's all generally an unpleasant experience. At that time, we also found a lot of cycle lanes were obstructed in various ways, cars parking briefly (or not.)  or vans unloading etc.


There also never seemed to be a way to cross the city and leave it in a way that was isolated away from the traffic (and mess the city planners seem to have created) and basically we stopped trying.


 

The text you are quoting:

We currently live in Bern, my girlfriend lived in Geneva (Petit-Saconnex) for 5 years before and we intitially tried to cycle around Geneva and to cycle outside the city.


We found Geneva a nightmare for cycling, incredibly poor thought given to the safety of cyclists, almost zero respect from car drivers (french, especially), many motorbike riders and large capacity scooters (again, french often..) seem to see cycle lanes as "motorbike overtaking lanes" and what with their often excessive speed when doing this, means it's all generally an unpleasant experience. At that time, we also found a lot of cycle lanes were obstructed in various ways, cars parking briefly (or not.)  or vans unloading etc.


There also never seemed to be a way to cross the city and leave it in a way that was isolated away from the traffic (and mess the city planners seem to have created) and basically we stopped trying.


 


Kevin H, Feb 11, 2023 @ 09:38
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Re: Biking in Geneva vs. elsewhere
Post 5

As you can see from Kevin's post below I am not sure if Pro Velo  acives much. I have another problem in that Pro Velo promotes cycling everywhere including footpaths. This is not permitted but also not enforced on those footpaths which pass through forestsand woodland  belonging to the Etat de Geneve 50-60% of the total.  The presence of bikes on footpaths does not worry provided there ia a respect for walkers and I cycle through all the forests myself exceptin those place where it is too steep or there are steps but I respect walkers

The text you are quoting:

As you can see from Kevin's post below I am not sure if Pro Velo  acives much. I have another problem in that Pro Velo promotes cycling everywhere including footpaths. This is not permitted but also not enforced on those footpaths which pass through forestsand woodland  belonging to the Etat de Geneve 50-60% of the total.  The presence of bikes on footpaths does not worry provided there ia a respect for walkers and I cycle through all the forests myself exceptin those place where it is too steep or there are steps but I respect walkers


Paul E, Feb 12, 2023 @ 14:56
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Re: Biking in Geneva vs. elsewhere
Post 6

I just wanted to add that since the referendum on enshrining cycling in the Swiss constitution:


https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/september-23-ballot_swiss-to-vote-on-the-importance-of-cycling/44409042


that a lot of changes have taken place in Bern (no idea about Geneva to be honest).


Measures such as a blanket 30 km/h speed limit in the centre of the city (which will be slowly expanded), reducing dual car lanes to be one single lane and a widened bicycle lane (can imagine in Geneva this would be occupied by scooters and motorbikes..), modifying junctions to restrict cars to less routes and reducing traffic on some roads which have been re-classified as bicycle highways etc.(but not exclusively, god help pedestrians on these routes and still some cars on some sections..)


None of these measures I particularly object to, why would I, they are generally safer for cyclists (me sometimes.. ;-)   but what really is a problem is that all of these changes are designed to allow all traffic types to "co-exist" in the same space and this is what I think (or observe) is near impossible..


Pedestrians hate cyclists (who ignore red lights and pedestrian crossings constantly) and cars. Cyclists hate pedestrians and cars and motorbikes, trotinettes, scooters, 20km/h vehicles with no number plate, e-bikes etc. Fast (45 km/h, yellow number plate) e-bikes hate everybody it seems, and everybody hates them due to their arrogant antics in their race to get to work in the shortest possible time, whether it means running over pedestrians (in pedestrian zones..) or ignoring the (new) 30 km/h speed limit, or endless stupid examples of crazy riding which I see daily.


I think it would be better to seperate pedestrians, cyclists/trotinettes and motorised traffic as much as possible but I guess our cities were not designed for this and it requires many more fundamental changes than the somewhat superficial changes (which didn't require any building work) which have been implemented in Bern. I guess this is "phase 1" but I hope future changes address these problems in a better way..

The text you are quoting:

I just wanted to add that since the referendum on enshrining cycling in the Swiss constitution:


https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/business/september-23-ballot_swiss-to-vote-on-the-importance-of-cycling/44409042


that a lot of changes have taken place in Bern (no idea about Geneva to be honest).


Measures such as a blanket 30 km/h speed limit in the centre of the city (which will be slowly expanded), reducing dual car lanes to be one single lane and a widened bicycle lane (can imagine in Geneva this would be occupied by scooters and motorbikes..), modifying junctions to restrict cars to less routes and reducing traffic on some roads which have been re-classified as bicycle highways etc.(but not exclusively, god help pedestrians on these routes and still some cars on some sections..)


None of these measures I particularly object to, why would I, they are generally safer for cyclists (me sometimes.. ;-)   but what really is a problem is that all of these changes are designed to allow all traffic types to "co-exist" in the same space and this is what I think (or observe) is near impossible..


Pedestrians hate cyclists (who ignore red lights and pedestrian crossings constantly) and cars. Cyclists hate pedestrians and cars and motorbikes, trotinettes, scooters, 20km/h vehicles with no number plate, e-bikes etc. Fast (45 km/h, yellow number plate) e-bikes hate everybody it seems, and everybody hates them due to their arrogant antics in their race to get to work in the shortest possible time, whether it means running over pedestrians (in pedestrian zones..) or ignoring the (new) 30 km/h speed limit, or endless stupid examples of crazy riding which I see daily.


I think it would be better to seperate pedestrians, cyclists/trotinettes and motorised traffic as much as possible but I guess our cities were not designed for this and it requires many more fundamental changes than the somewhat superficial changes (which didn't require any building work) which have been implemented in Bern. I guess this is "phase 1" but I hope future changes address these problems in a better way..


Kevin H, Feb 14, 2023 @ 10:04
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Re: Biking in Geneva vs. elsewhere
Post 7

A short article in the Tribune de Genève which sums up injtolerance of cyclists and confusion at the Place de Bel Air


You need to copy paste or just simply note that the police are looking for a hit and run clylist who injured a 32 year old pedestiran


https://click.mc.tamedia.ch/?qs=9b6f476225ccdb5193c1dfb23c8228917e5556ca634e6db90ee8fa48c05365953096aa67dd8678af9c2dd1d170475a89cce7a371ae1e68e9c119af35692ae7c2


 


 


 


 


5953096aa67dd8678af9c2dd1d170475a89cce7a371ae1e68e9c119af35692ae7c2

The text you are quoting:

A short article in the Tribune de Genève which sums up injtolerance of cyclists and confusion at the Place de Bel Air


You need to copy paste or just simply note that the police are looking for a hit and run clylist who injured a 32 year old pedestiran


https://click.mc.tamedia.ch/?qs=9b6f476225ccdb5193c1dfb23c8228917e5556ca634e6db90ee8fa48c05365953096aa67dd8678af9c2dd1d170475a89cce7a371ae1e68e9c119af35692ae7c2


 


 


 


 


5953096aa67dd8678af9c2dd1d170475a89cce7a371ae1e68e9c119af35692ae7c2


Paul E, Feb 14, 2023 @ 17:49
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Re: Biking in Geneva vs. elsewhere
Post 8

Not sure if this is an example of general intolerance. It is a criminal offense to leave the site of the accident after you injure someone.


The "rue de la Confédération" is open to bicycle traffic and unfortunately forms part of the fastest way between Stand and Rive. The risk to everyone is mainly in the bus and tram traffic on the same narrow street between "Monnaie" and "Corraterie". For sure, anyone who goes fast enough to actually injure a pedestrian there must be crazy. This short bit must be passed slowly and with extreme care.


From further away, e.g. Jonction, this place can be avoided altogether by going on the other side of the river. You would then rejoin Confederation Street at Bel-Air just after the bit where the accident happened.


About the article I do not like how they are mentioning the pedestrian zone which superficially makes it sound as if the accident happened in a place where bikes are not supposed to go. The pedestrian had already left that zone.

The text you are quoting:

Not sure if this is an example of general intolerance. It is a criminal offense to leave the site of the accident after you injure someone.


The "rue de la Confédération" is open to bicycle traffic and unfortunately forms part of the fastest way between Stand and Rive. The risk to everyone is mainly in the bus and tram traffic on the same narrow street between "Monnaie" and "Corraterie". For sure, anyone who goes fast enough to actually injure a pedestrian there must be crazy. This short bit must be passed slowly and with extreme care.


From further away, e.g. Jonction, this place can be avoided altogether by going on the other side of the river. You would then rejoin Confederation Street at Bel-Air just after the bit where the accident happened.


About the article I do not like how they are mentioning the pedestrian zone which superficially makes it sound as if the accident happened in a place where bikes are not supposed to go. The pedestrian had already left that zone.


Sven T, Feb 15, 2023 @ 07:52
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Re: Biking in Geneva vs. elsewhere
Post 9

Hi there Smile

I'm trying to use my good old bicycle again, which I haven't done for quite a while.
I used to bike in the Geneva countryside many years ago, never much downtonw, and a few times in the Netherlands, Germany, Italy also many years ago, and more recently in Zurich. And I felt  happy and safe.

Now I feel quite unsafe, also because of cars ... but mostly because of other bikes and scooters.

Is it just me ? Or is it that times have changed ? Or is biking in Geneva  particularly special compared to other cities ?

Thanks.


Feb 1, 23 11:46

It is not you.


Motorbike drivers and cyclists in Geneva are often uncivilized, aggressive, and violent.


I would advise you to keep using your bike for nice strolls in countryside roads with no traffic, and use the TPG (or your car, if you have one) to go to the city center. And also, as Paul E said, do not join Pro Vélo or similar bike-obsessed organizations, as they defend cyclists to the detriment of all other road users, including pedestrians.

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It is not you.


Motorbike drivers and cyclists in Geneva are often uncivilized, aggressive, and violent.


I would advise you to keep using your bike for nice strolls in countryside roads with no traffic, and use the TPG (or your car, if you have one) to go to the city center. And also, as Paul E said, do not join Pro Vélo or similar bike-obsessed organizations, as they defend cyclists to the detriment of all other road users, including pedestrians.


TheOmegaMan, Feb 15, 2023 @ 20:05
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Re: Biking in Geneva vs. elsewhere
Post 10

Not sure if this is an example of general intolerance. It is a criminal offense to leave the site of the accident after you injure someone.

The "rue de la Confédération" is open to bicycle traffic and unfortunately forms part of the fastest way between Stand and Rive. The risk to everyone is mainly in the bus and tram traffic on the same narrow street between "Monnaie" and "Corraterie". For sure, anyone who goes fast enough to actually injure a pedestrian there must be crazy. This short bit must be passed slowly and with extreme care.

From further away, e.g. Jonction, this place can be avoided altogether by going on the other side of the river. You would then rejoin Confederation Street at Bel-Air just after the bit where the accident happened.

About the article I do not like how they are mentioning the pedestrian zone which superficially makes it sound as if the accident happened in a place where bikes are not supposed to go. The pedestrian had already left that zone.


Feb 15, 23 07:52

Regarding the reference to a pedestrian zone it might be thesection in Bel Air where the trams cross the Rhone where most cyclists pas along the lines as it is afwe than the correct route which follows the bus (but remember my first post where I quoted the impossibility of understanding the route to be taken across place de Bel Air.  It is not a pedestrian zone as trams pass there but the whole 'place is a mess.  Another potential hazard where pedestrian do not look ibefore crossing is the Basses (tram line) between Place de la Fusterie and just before Rive.  This closed to all traffic except public transport (TPG) and service vehicles including bicycles

The text you are quoting:

Regarding the reference to a pedestrian zone it might be thesection in Bel Air where the trams cross the Rhone where most cyclists pas along the lines as it is afwe than the correct route which follows the bus (but remember my first post where I quoted the impossibility of understanding the route to be taken across place de Bel Air.  It is not a pedestrian zone as trams pass there but the whole 'place is a mess.  Another potential hazard where pedestrian do not look ibefore crossing is the Basses (tram line) between Place de la Fusterie and just before Rive.  This closed to all traffic except public transport (TPG) and service vehicles including bicycles


Paul E, Feb 15, 2023 @ 21:14
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