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Buy a place in France (Chamonix) advice

Hi, 


I am thinking about buying a place in Chamonix as an investment. 


Can someone tell me if there is something i should really watch out for in terms of hidden costs.


Also, would it be better to get a mortgage in CHF or Eur? if i get one in France can i deduct it from my taxes in Geneva?


Thanks in advance

The text you are quoting:

Hi, 


I am thinking about buying a place in Chamonix as an investment. 


Can someone tell me if there is something i should really watch out for in terms of hidden costs.


Also, would it be better to get a mortgage in CHF or Eur? if i get one in France can i deduct it from my taxes in Geneva?


Thanks in advance


calfordSep 6, 2011 @ 14:54
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Re: Buy a place in France (Chamonix) advice
Post 1

an investment?


be aware that France has just abolished taper relief on capital games on 2nd homes (ok you may be able to get around that) and that notaires fees/sales tax will set you back around 20% on your investment. france is also one of the most overpriced countries in the world (according to a recent Economist article).


get a mortage in the currency you earn in,


watch out for local taxes


watch out for avalanches, most of Chamonix is built in a red zone (remember Montroc and don't think the local's won't stiff you if they get the chance).

The text you are quoting:

an investment?


be aware that France has just abolished taper relief on capital games on 2nd homes (ok you may be able to get around that) and that notaires fees/sales tax will set you back around 20% on your investment. france is also one of the most overpriced countries in the world (according to a recent Economist article).


get a mortage in the currency you earn in,


watch out for local taxes


watch out for avalanches, most of Chamonix is built in a red zone (remember Montroc and don't think the local's won't stiff you if they get the chance).


David G, Sep 6, 2011 @ 20:50
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Re: Buy a place in France (Chamonix) advice
Post 2

Thanks for your reply David,


 


I was under the impression that the notary fees were "only" 6%.


My idea was to make a downpayment big enough to make the rent of the flat pay for the mortgage (Euros). Is that not a good plan?


 


thanks

The text you are quoting:

Thanks for your reply David,


 


I was under the impression that the notary fees were "only" 6%.


My idea was to make a downpayment big enough to make the rent of the flat pay for the mortgage (Euros). Is that not a good plan?


 


thanks


calford, Sep 6, 2011 @ 22:45
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Re: Buy a place in France (Chamonix) advice
Post 3

The interest on the mortgage in CHF is generally much lower than the interest on a loan in EUR. You cannot deduct the interest on the mortgage from your Swiss taxable revenues, because it's deemed connected to a real estate in France. Similarly, if you rent out the apartment, the revenues will be taxed in France and not in Switzerland. The only little deduction you may obtain is related to the worldwide revenues and therefore a deduction on the applicable tax rate.


Concerning the hidden costs, you may ask about the common costs if the apartement is part of a condomium (which is generally the case). You may also ask about the real estate tax and residence tax (the residence tax - "taxe d'habitation" - may be at your charge if you rent out the apartment on a weekly basis).

The text you are quoting:

The interest on the mortgage in CHF is generally much lower than the interest on a loan in EUR. You cannot deduct the interest on the mortgage from your Swiss taxable revenues, because it's deemed connected to a real estate in France. Similarly, if you rent out the apartment, the revenues will be taxed in France and not in Switzerland. The only little deduction you may obtain is related to the worldwide revenues and therefore a deduction on the applicable tax rate.


Concerning the hidden costs, you may ask about the common costs if the apartement is part of a condomium (which is generally the case). You may also ask about the real estate tax and residence tax (the residence tax - "taxe d'habitation" - may be at your charge if you rent out the apartment on a weekly basis).


Per P, Sep 7, 2011 @ 08:30
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Re: Buy a place in France (Chamonix) advice
Post 4

Hi, I bought an apartment there about six years ago and being a complete novice in real estate (and frankly a bit of an idiot), I paid well over market value. As it turns out I was lucky and it's worth a lot more now. Just beware, don't be shy of offering well below the shown sale price.  Got a CHF mortgage, which apparently is better as it's the currency in which I earn. I normally manage to break even through seasonal lets although the charges are huge (snow clearing and the effects of severe weather conditions on the buildings I guess).  @David G, could you tell me more about the red zone, no idea if my apartment is included therein (still a bit of an idiot.. lol)... Thanks...

The text you are quoting:

Hi, I bought an apartment there about six years ago and being a complete novice in real estate (and frankly a bit of an idiot), I paid well over market value. As it turns out I was lucky and it's worth a lot more now. Just beware, don't be shy of offering well below the shown sale price.  Got a CHF mortgage, which apparently is better as it's the currency in which I earn. I normally manage to break even through seasonal lets although the charges are huge (snow clearing and the effects of severe weather conditions on the buildings I guess).  @David G, could you tell me more about the red zone, no idea if my apartment is included therein (still a bit of an idiot.. lol)... Thanks...


Alison O, Sep 7, 2011 @ 09:11
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Re: Buy a place in France (Chamonix) advice
Post 5

Thanks alison, 


Could you tell me roughly how much thoso charges are?

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Thanks alison, 


Could you tell me roughly how much thoso charges are?


calford, Sep 7, 2011 @ 11:05
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Re: Buy a place in France (Chamonix) advice
Post 6

Well it very much depends on the size and location of your place and of course the management company. My costs can be up to 2000E a year for a small two bedroom place.

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Well it very much depends on the size and location of your place and of course the management company. My costs can be up to 2000E a year for a small two bedroom place.


Alison O, Sep 7, 2011 @ 11:08
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Re: Buy a place in France (Chamonix) advice
Post 7

If by any chance you need to do any upgrades, I get factory prices from different medium-high end suppliers of kitchen, living room, bathroom, and bedroom furniture. The good stuff that can add value to the property :-)   

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If by any chance you need to do any upgrades, I get factory prices from different medium-high end suppliers of kitchen, living room, bathroom, and bedroom furniture. The good stuff that can add value to the property :-)   


giankee, Sep 7, 2011 @ 13:11
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Re: Buy a place in France (Chamonix) advice
Post 8

Hi, I bought an apartment there about six years ago and being a complete novice in real estate (and frankly a bit of an idiot), I paid well over market value. As it turns out I was lucky and it's worth a lot more now. Just beware, don't be shy of offering well below the shown sale price.  Got a CHF mortgage, which apparently is better as it's the currency in which I earn. I normally manage to break even through seasonal lets although the charges are huge (snow clearing and the effects of severe weather conditions on the buildings I guess).  @David G, could you tell me more about the red zone, no idea if my apartment is included therein (still a bit of an idiot.. lol)... Thanks...


Sep 7, 11 09:11

@Alison I wouldn't worry too much about avalanches :-), just let to tourists during the winter months. If I remember I will put a video from the French news on Youtube that talks about it. Otherwise check the site:


http://www.avalanches.fr/


and for more info on Montroc


http://pistehors.com/backcountry/wiki/Articles/Montroc-Avalanche


zoning has changed since Montroc and normally your notaire would have told you about any risks


@calford: yes but you have to both buy and sell so somewhere in the equation 12% will be involved, whoever actually pays, plus VAT if a new build, plus any estate agent charges if you use them in a sale. The fiscal drag is quite a lot on property. As I mentioned watch out for the changes in capital gains treatment which have just been introduced.

The text you are quoting:

@Alison I wouldn't worry too much about avalanches :-), just let to tourists during the winter months. If I remember I will put a video from the French news on Youtube that talks about it. Otherwise check the site:


http://www.avalanches.fr/


and for more info on Montroc


http://pistehors.com/backcountry/wiki/Articles/Montroc-Avalanche


zoning has changed since Montroc and normally your notaire would have told you about any risks


@calford: yes but you have to both buy and sell so somewhere in the equation 12% will be involved, whoever actually pays, plus VAT if a new build, plus any estate agent charges if you use them in a sale. The fiscal drag is quite a lot on property. As I mentioned watch out for the changes in capital gains treatment which have just been introduced.


David G, Sep 7, 2011 @ 20:41
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