Horse riding with a pretty therapist. Are we sure we are talking about a dangerous serial rapist?? 

That's schoking.

It doesn't make any sense.

Why is it that you will never consider a lion safe? even after being locked for 5 years in a cage?

If a lion hasn't eaten a bunny rabbit for a year or two, you still won't trust him to go for a walk with a bunny rabbit. Full stop.

So why would someone trust a rapist to go for a walk with a woman?

Authorities say selection of accompanying person is made based on experience and not based on gender. Will a woman get offended if she is not chosen for a duty like this because she is a woman? OK right, even if it was a man, a criminal like that let out alone with one person is just wrong, even if horse riding was going to turn him magically into saint he should have been better watched. What a shame....I feel so sorry for her 8 months old baby :( 

This tragic news appeared on foreign newspapers too, and again it shows how the Swiss system is ridiculously ineffective when dealing with criminals.

I imagine the discussion between the judges must have went like this:

- This recidivist criminal is dangerous, shall we put him in jail and throw the key away?

- Of course not! Let's organize some horse riding for him to have fun.

- How should we organize the transport between jail and the riding stables?

- Well, since he's a serial rapist, he should be accompanied by a woman alone, not escorted, and not handcuffed.

- Excellent idea! What could possibly go wrong?

Good news, I just heard that they've caught him at the German-Polish border .

A lot of heads are going to start dropping!

And about time too !

R.

Unyet when i suggest public decapitation for such individuals there is an outcry ...

"Oh no, you cannot do that, poor thing, society owes him, social services, poor deprived person"...

A nice shiny guillotine standing in front of each village square would be a good deterrant against such scum...enough said 

Yep they caught him in Germany next to the border of Poland. Am relieved, was afraid going alone hiking.

It is very scary to know that criminals go horse riding in geneva. Honestly, since this incident i am not feeling as safe as before....

This makes me feel sick, poor woman.

He tried to hide in Poland, now he is in polish jail, waiting to be transfer back to Switzerland. Hope he will be locked for good, without a chance of seeing another human being close enough to hurt anybody else.

Quote Mona Hadi: „I cannot believe this system“ 
 
Answer: „This system“ has achieved some of the lowest crime rates world wide. 
 
Quote Mona Hadi: „Horse riding with a pretty therapist. Are we sure we are talking about a dangerous serial rapist??„ 
 
Answer: Are you claiming, that only pretty people are victims of rape? Ort hat there are just some jobs, women should not be allowed to do? 
 
Quote Evgenia: „Why is it that you will never consider a lion safe? even after being locked for 5 years in a cage?“ 
 
Answer: You do realize, that in most cases rapists and murderers are set free after they served their term in prison? Are you advocating, death penalty or lifelong imprisonment for every rapist? If yes, why not for a thief too or do you just want to cut off their hands instead? 
 
Quote TheOmegaMan: „…the Swiss system is ridiculously ineffective when dealing with criminals.“ 
 
Answer: Again, the facts, the number of crimes in Switzerland is lower than in countries with much harsher penalties. I see no correlation between severe punishment and a healthy society. 
 
To the rest of your post, the same points as in my previous answer apply. 
 
Quote robert m: „Unyet when i suggest public decapitation for such individuals there is an outcry ...“ 
 
Answer: Where on earth has mass execution of people reduced crime to the level we have in Switzerland? Please just show one case, where mass murder from the state has reduced violence in a society? Why does the US with an active death penalty system has higher crime rates than Europe? Why do US states without the death penalty in general have a lower crime rate, than those with death penalty?  
 

I would cut something else from all the rapist in the world, not only in Switzerland and it wouldn't be their hands.

Death penalty is such a large subject, there is so many different opinions about it.

I agree with Natalie, cut his 'thingy' off and then i think he will be less likely raping ladies.

Natalie, Imagine his next targets was possibly in Poland? So glad they caught him.

And about Switerland system, well there are always flaws, but in my oppinion, its the best system and safest country.

I feel truly ashamed as a Polish to read this and see how this person affected so many people in a wrong way. I hope he will be transfer ASAP back to Switzerland where we will be paying for what he have done. Even though, nothing can bring this woman back, something could have been done earlier to provent this.

In cases like that, I do feel strongly about the death penalty. He took someone's life, he doesn't deserve to live. Who am I to judge and make this statement? As a woman, I feel like I have the right to speak about it. If that would be my mother, my sister or my best friend it's the same thing even that she was a stranger. She was a victim of a sick man, who decided that he has the right to attact a woman in that way and kill her after. It's not a person, it's not a human behavior - it's strictly animal.

Switzerland is a small and rich country in the heart of Europe. With a population of only a few millions and with the money they have,  they can afford to keep it safe! They are not doing a favour to the tax paying population. they are trying to isolate asylum seekers and forbid them from using public places they can also think about not sending criminals for a horse ride! 

About the term "pretty" I use it for all women! There is no definition of "pretty" for me, may be for you it meant something else. And of course a rapist will most probably rape a woman, especially a sick rapist like him, whose previous psychologist called him "addicted to rape"

This is not about this one rapist only. I think you are unaware of the case of another criminal/murderer who went on "home leave" and murdered a 19 years old girl. So I can say I can't believe the system, not only me even the Swiss are saying it. Then there are people like you who come to glocals only to be negative, and attack others for their opinions.

And yes!!! I agree with cutting "the other part" of these criminals.

Please Natalie, because of this, there is no issue with Poland, really nothing to be ashamed of, poland caught him and that is a 'Star' in my oppinion.

I am for the death penalty, but I think i feel that would be too kind for men like 'Rapists' because they shoudl be set as an example, deterant. So Cut off their pricks/penis/balls and have them live the rest of there life peeing from a plastic tube.Truely sad is the 8 month old baby that lost her mom to this monsters actions. This should not happen again, next time have a male security guard protection any female therapist, yeah it cost a bit more but that is my suggested solution, so just stop providing 'horse back riding' to criminals. Wow, I cant even afford leasons.

And I really dont care about there terrible / sad childhoods or other reasons for there 'Sickness', because this is unacceptable in any country rich or Poor.

We all have mothers, we have grandmothers, some have sisters, wifes, daughters. They all must be protected by family and society from these animals, in my opinion they dont deserve the same rights as others once they commit such terrible acts.

Dave:

Cutting his « thingy » off wouldn’t prevent him from committing murder again.

R.

Richie, and your an expert on Rapist and murderers????

What I like to know if he raped/murdered the therapist or just murdered? Anyone know?

And if you read my commets, the cutting of his prick/penis/ball was to reduce his need to rape women. now He is both. In my opinion, cutting his thingy will reduce his manlyness and he will have have reduced sexual pleasure, which certainy coudl change his sexual motivations.

http://www.thelocal.ch/20130527/mourners-fill-vaud-church-for-maries-funeral this was just few months ago!

Apparently same thing had happened with a rapist set free for a day in german side of CH, who had raped and killed a woman and that had changed everything there. They believe in protecting the public from criminals while the french side believes in curing the criminals. I hope this second brutal murder will serve as a wake up call for this side as well. 

First he raped her and then killed, left the body in the bushes.

There is also chemical castration which is probably just as effective. 

They haven't said that he raped her but maybe they haven't published that out of respect for the family. 

Your reply to Richie was a bit aggressive, she's right, why would it prevent someone murdering? 

Richie and JindaLee, my comments were not about a murderer but about rapist as i discussed.

And If then refering to murderers, there are alot of circumstances that need to be considered for death penalty or other capital punishment.

But for a RAPIST, just cut it off so they pee from a tube.

This particular rapist has been described by his french psychologist as someone who is addicted to violent rape. Exact words "Violer jusqu' á tuer c,est comme un drogue pour lui" (raping until murdering is like a drug for him). So may be he wont murder if he cant rape? How many people murder for pleasure? 

A rapist needs to be imprisoned for life or his rape instrument being cut! Releasing such beasts back to society just make the society unsafe for all of us.

Congratulations on your hair-splitting talent.

Mrs. Richie Rich, I can crack open nuts and split peas for soup.

I think this case just makes everybody extremely sensitive and it's eyes opening for some of us, who actually had the feeling like me, that "this things don't happen around me".

Was there ever any castration punishment before? Never heard about it.

there is just no reasanable way to calculate the pain and the lost of someone into the criminalist punishment . I do agree, that he should be treated as poorly as what he did. She was so young, and her little baby won't have a mother. It's unbelievable, how one person had change this family and us around, by learning about the tragedy. Are we really safe anywhere? 

Wow, yet another talent !

Some muvvers do ‘ave ‘em.

Lol

Castration was certainly a punishment in the not so recent past but whether for rape I don’t know.  Perhaps not, because in those days,  women were still  very much regarded as mere chattels.

It is terrible what happened to the therapist and the babys loss.

britchie, seems your 3 comments of each max 5 words are not really adding anything to this forum. full of helpful and an amazing superior intellect?

Do those advocating violence, torture, murder and/or mutilation also advocate for beating of children when they are unruly? 

Are we talking about Turkey? Did I make any comparisons?

I am more shocked at your arrogance! While I am criticising a murder and the situation which made it happen you are coming and attacking me for something which I have not mentioned anywhere in this thread.... Or are you saying that only a swiss or someone like you (i dont know where you come from and I am not interested in finding out either because thats not relevant to this thread) has the right to speak about something so horrendous? There are many problems in turkey and for that matter anywhere in the world and anyone can open a thread on them or write in newspapers or discuss it on forums or over dinner or anywhere they like, I wouldnt be shocked....But since we live here and the incident happened 2 kms away from my home I was shocked and posted here, or  is there a glocals policy on who can post about what? Some nationalities banned?

"So I am really surprised when someone coming from such a country start blaming the Swiss system"

Since I come from "such a country" I should always bow my head in shame and never try to participate in any discussion, never have a critical opinion or may be not have an opinion at all since I come from "such a country" otherwise people will be so shocked.....Or may be I should show my swiss passport and then things might change :) or does it only depend on the "origins"? Please clarify this to this ignorant turkish lady *sad face*

Reka,

Everybody is entitled to air their opinion whatever their origin is. If you have opinions about Turkey you are welcome to start a new topic, perhaps under politics.  Please do not dilute the discussion with your turkey bashing. 

Ha finally this thread has kicked off and has some oommph in it !!!

Yes i know there has been zillion of studies that prove that the death penalty does not reduce crime or act as a deterrent but there are such low life scum on this planet that deserve the death penalty and besides even if it does not reduce crime per say i still would favor that because prison for life is expensive and in a strange way seems almost worst than a death sentence.  Besides will all the scientific police techniques these days the probability of getting the wrong person convicted has vastly reduced.  Society is already a fragile entity in itself it does not need to be furnished by rapists, child molesters, sadists, etc ...  No we do not need these people, there are no excuses for them...

Robert, though I agree with you that there is scum which should be taken out of society, I am strongly against the death penalty. The problem I have with it - is that it is irreverseble.... And one innocent victim executed is allready too much, and is in that case murder by the state. The death penalty is nothing more than state excecuted murder. Also... do you get your murdered loved one back by killing an other human being? You are than lowering yourself to the "an eye for an eye justice" and I'm so happy we left this midiaevel way of justice behind us here in Europe. Look at the middle east, look at the US (no offence meant).... that should say enough, is there less crime there? Look at Singapore, importing or carrying drugs gets you the death penalty - does it stop people doing it? Nope....the stakes are just higher, so the rewards as well.

And with the costs, there are several sources who compare the death penalty against life without parole, and they don't really seem to agree. Lock them up in 2x2 cell - no natural daylight - for the rest of their natural life. That is punishment, the deathpenalty just gets them "out". 

And about Turkey et al ; Gotta love Glocals - it runs offtopic faster than a spanish train derails ;-) 

I agree with you martin. No death penalty like in the US as that is one extreme and no horse riding lessons for serial rapists and no home leave for sick murders like Claude Dubois either as that looks like another extreme. Some middle path would be ideal.

You totally are right in that! can't agree more. Horse riding for serious criminals goes WAY WAY WAY to far. Lock them up and throw away the key I'd say!!!! 

Some days ago the TDG run an article about this case, and I was stunned of reading the program of the day of this dangerous criminal.

First, he went to buy a knife with his therapist (because when you're allowing a recidivist rapist to have a day off prison with an unarmed girl and no police escort and no other safety measures, you've pretty much given all common sense away).

After the horse riding lessons, he was supposed to have a nice lunch at Brasserie Lipp's with his therapist.  I suppose he didn't like the menu.

Please enlighten our darkness and tell us who pays for these horse-riding lessons and lunches at Lipp.

Thanks, R.

This is the internet, who cares about facts? But lets try anyway:

Question from Ritchie: Who pays for these lessons and lunches? The taxpayer, duh.

Claim form TheOmegaMan (TOM): "Unarmed girl". It is a bit condescending to call a 34 year old professional a girl, hey, but whatever rocks your boat...

Fact is, that A.M. had been alone with "dangerous criminals" over 200 times (like others are on a daily basis even after this event). Do you want to be sexist and claim that only men can do this job or even worse, that it is less of a loss to society, when a man had been killed? There are weak and stronger men and weak and strong women.

It is always easy, to be a Monday morning quarterback or Armchair General. If I had known the lottery numbers, I would be rich. Or as we say in German "Wenn dass Wörtchen wenn nicht wär, wär mein Vater Teddybär".

Fact is, that Fabrice Anthamatten would have been free in 2015, without any police escort and no other safety measures in place.

Well, fancy that.  You do surprise me.  But thanks anyway.

R.

As a Swiss, I can tell the problem in my country is of laxism due to an ideology. In the TV program "Infrarouge" the reaction of some Swiss lawyer and psy were disgusting and out of reality. Some people are out of reality, live in a big confort, and thinl that reinsertion of big crimimals is normal. With their naive attitude, they think to be right and if you try to talk about harder sanctions, pusnishment, more watch on the guilty, you are called fachist alike ! In some other countries like United State they are more severe !

Criminals are getting treated better as victims and now many Swiss people are fed up of this. 

I participated to a Black walk in Lausanne, that had nothing to do with death penalty, but this Black walk was to remember the victims of recidivist  : Lucie, Marie, Adeline. The parents of Lucie was there also. One nice girl that was there is working on an association for the victim and to try to do something.

There will be a walk in Bern in March 1, 2014, for not forgetting the victims.

Rehabilitation of "big crimimals" (sic!) is a basis of our society and of the legal norms of this country. And it has worked quite well. Switzerland is not perfect, but has lower murder rates and fewer repeat offenders than countries with harsher laws like USA and Russia or A'stan or Iran have. And we have a higher standard of living.

Sure, you have the right to talk about harsher punishments, but you have no facts to show that harsher punishments or the death penalty makes a better society. Adding more violence by the state does not reduce the total violence in a society.

And harsher punishment is only a small fraction of Fascism. Many non-Fascist systems had harsh punishments too.

Quote: "Criminals are getting treated better as victims". If this were true, how many years did the rape victim of F.A. spend in jail? Or how was she treated worse than the rapist whose freedom and independence, humans highest goods, were taken for several years?

Obviously Alan you are not a woman and you do not understand what are the consequences of a rape and in that case victims are not in jail but death. Many lifes bruised by one criminal. If you followed well this case, like the one of Marie and Claude B you wil have again victims that are bad treated and in addition criminal who are paid horse lesson and lot of help for reinsertion, in opposition to victims in a bad condition (one woman who was attacked by Fabrice A suffered about the court decision and accusation that she said yes and that was not a rape), Adeline was killed so if it is worse than being in jail.

Not to mention that these big criminals are allowed to go on internet where they chat with women not aware about who they are (that was explained in RTS program on thursday)

And not to mention the 22'000 CHF a month spent in Swiss-German part by the State for affording Carlos, a young criminal a big appartment, boxe thai courses, etc...

So, Tsatsa, your vagina gives you insight into human suffering that no man can ever have? Can you also feel the pain of male victims of rape or do you ignore those as they don't seem to fit in your feminist world view?

I am not quite sure, what are are trying to say from about "and in that case.." to "not a rape)." 

If you are saying, that for example some riding lessons might help victims of rape better cope with their situation, I agree with you, that something should be offered.

You further state something about "victims that are bad treated" but fail to say by whom. Society? Government? Justice system? Police? I would be happy to look into any evidence of your claims.

Adeline was not raped, so I see no reason, to include her death as a worse punishment for rape, as you seem to indicate.

Then about the internet. If you really believe, what other people will tell you on the internet or in real life to be honest and true, then I have got a bridge to tell you. Do you really think, that when you meet a convicted and released murder in a bar, he will really tell you about his time in prison the first time he meets you?

Ah, Carlos. Do you know, how hight the costs are, to keep Carlos in juvenile detention (where he is now)? Over 40'000.00 per month. Taxpayer should be really happy, now he is back in jail...

Again, very little facts in your posts...

I am looking to go to social benefits also, does anyone know if LIPPS will be paid by the medical assurance or the Prison therapy system?

alan s, chill, khill, kill.