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Dénonciation for parking by CSDP

Last week, I parked my car outside my appartment at 110 Route de Frontenex (I rent the appartment).  It's a complex of around 3 bulidings. There are around 60 to 70 external parking places. Each flat also has an underground "box" for one car.  There are usually empty spaces in the external parking.  


The sign in front of the external parking spaces is "P Visiteurs".  There is no mention of a time limit or anything else.  There is no indication of any rule, and none of the spaces are designated as being private or reserved for special types of vehicules.


I left my car outside my flat correctly parked in one of the designated parking spaces.  When I returned later in the day I found I had received a ticket as follows:


"Dénonciation.  Nous avons constaté que le conducteur du véhicule mentionné ci-dessous a contrevenu aux règles de la circulation:.......


Infraction: B34A Stationner un véhicule sur une case de stationnement qui, compte tenu de la signalisation, n'est pas destinée à ce genre de véhicule.. jusqu'à deux heures.


Cette dénonciation sera transmise à la police et sur cette base la procédure ordinaire de contravention sera engagé."


The ticket is headed up as being issued by CSDP Centre de Service sur Domaine Privé SA, Route de Satigny 42A - 1217 Meyrin tel 0900 922 922 (fr. 1- /min)


It looks like I am going to get a fine from the police (probably CHF 40), for parking in the visitor parking outside my own flat.  Is this illegal?  Can I appeal?  Are CSDP scammers?  What right do they have to do this.  Any comments please.

The text you are quoting:

Last week, I parked my car outside my appartment at 110 Route de Frontenex (I rent the appartment).  It's a complex of around 3 bulidings. There are around 60 to 70 external parking places. Each flat also has an underground "box" for one car.  There are usually empty spaces in the external parking.  


The sign in front of the external parking spaces is "P Visiteurs".  There is no mention of a time limit or anything else.  There is no indication of any rule, and none of the spaces are designated as being private or reserved for special types of vehicules.


I left my car outside my flat correctly parked in one of the designated parking spaces.  When I returned later in the day I found I had received a ticket as follows:


"Dénonciation.  Nous avons constaté que le conducteur du véhicule mentionné ci-dessous a contrevenu aux règles de la circulation:.......


Infraction: B34A Stationner un véhicule sur une case de stationnement qui, compte tenu de la signalisation, n'est pas destinée à ce genre de véhicule.. jusqu'à deux heures.


Cette dénonciation sera transmise à la police et sur cette base la procédure ordinaire de contravention sera engagé."


The ticket is headed up as being issued by CSDP Centre de Service sur Domaine Privé SA, Route de Satigny 42A - 1217 Meyrin tel 0900 922 922 (fr. 1- /min)


It looks like I am going to get a fine from the police (probably CHF 40), for parking in the visitor parking outside my own flat.  Is this illegal?  Can I appeal?  Are CSDP scammers?  What right do they have to do this.  Any comments please.


Marcus TJun 25, 2011 @ 16:35
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 1

More than 40CHF because they will have some admin costs to add on top as it is not a normal parking fine


Bienvenue chez les Suisses Smile.


 


 

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More than 40CHF because they will have some admin costs to add on top as it is not a normal parking fine


Bienvenue chez les Suisses Smile.


 


 


David G, Jun 26, 2011 @ 11:01
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 2

The parking probably had the '2 hour max' sign on it  Surprised, tenant or not, hence the fine.  And I bet this was not the first time you parked your car there ?


As to David's comment about "welcome to Switzerland", in the UK they would have put a yellow BOOT on one of your tyres Money mouth.  As far as disagreeable experiences go, I'd guess the ticket is pretty civilized and commensurate with the offence.  Many you never receive the fine as this is just one way of discouraging you not do it again Embarassed

The text you are quoting:

The parking probably had the '2 hour max' sign on it  Surprised, tenant or not, hence the fine.  And I bet this was not the first time you parked your car there ?


As to David's comment about "welcome to Switzerland", in the UK they would have put a yellow BOOT on one of your tyres Money mouth.  As far as disagreeable experiences go, I'd guess the ticket is pretty civilized and commensurate with the offence.  Many you never receive the fine as this is just one way of discouraging you not do it again Embarassed


Poster, Jun 29, 2011 @ 19:10
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 3

The parking probably had the '2 hour max' sign on it  Surprised, tenant or not, hence the fine.  And I bet this was not the first time you parked your car there ?

As to David's comment about "welcome to Switzerland", in the UK they would have put a yellow BOOT on one of your tyres Money mouth.  As far as disagreeable experiences go, I'd guess the ticket is pretty civilized and commensurate with the offence.  Many you never receive the fine as this is just one way of discouraging you not do it again Embarassed


Jun 29, 11 19:10

I've got to be honest with you but I've no idea what they do in the UK, I was just warning that when you get a fénonciationthere are additional administative costs compared to a normal fine and these are normally passe don. I think a warning might be more reasonable in the first instance.


However there is little to be done against the mighty dénonciation, we've got a bit of a hang up about it in France due to the implications regarding Jews in the Second world war but that's how it is done in CH.

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I've got to be honest with you but I've no idea what they do in the UK, I was just warning that when you get a fénonciationthere are additional administative costs compared to a normal fine and these are normally passe don. I think a warning might be more reasonable in the first instance.


However there is little to be done against the mighty dénonciation, we've got a bit of a hang up about it in France due to the implications regarding Jews in the Second world war but that's how it is done in CH.


David G, Jun 29, 2011 @ 22:11
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 4

If there was a sign saying maximum 2 hours or something like that I would deserve it.  Here is a picture of the sign.  No mention of a time limit!


Well I hope you are right and that I don't actually get the fine.  Nothing received so far, and it is at least seven days.  (Swiss efficiency?)



The text you are quoting:

If there was a sign saying maximum 2 hours or something like that I would deserve it.  Here is a picture of the sign.  No mention of a time limit!


Well I hope you are right and that I don't actually get the fine.  Nothing received so far, and it is at least seven days.  (Swiss efficiency?)


Marcus T, Jun 29, 2011 @ 22:29
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 5

It is undoubtedly the conçierge of the building who stuck a PV on Marcus' windscreen. Legaly the owner of the property cannot go after Marcus directly (at least he didn't slash his tyres), however the police/admin play the game and do the legal ticketing.


My guess is that Marcus won't ever see a ticket for this offence (maybe he will, who knows), but just to say that the Swiss system is fair and reasonable.


To  David, you announce yourself as British, I assume you know what the "Boot" is, a rather nasty experience (let's see, first its a trip to the police station, then pay your fine and the cost of putting on the Boot +£100, find the guy who put on the Boot and pay him to take it off (another £100) and beg him to remove it within the next 6 hours; bad luck if you aren't htere when he does remove it, as they are likely to add yet another Boot for passing the parking meter by 15 minutes, back to square one.  I think CHF 40 is a fair price to pay. 


In Switzerland it is called "dénonciation", in the USA its the CIA+FBI=deportation, in France they are on strike, in Italy its the mob.  As for the UK, the Boot works just fine.

The text you are quoting:

It is undoubtedly the conçierge of the building who stuck a PV on Marcus' windscreen. Legaly the owner of the property cannot go after Marcus directly (at least he didn't slash his tyres), however the police/admin play the game and do the legal ticketing.


My guess is that Marcus won't ever see a ticket for this offence (maybe he will, who knows), but just to say that the Swiss system is fair and reasonable.


To  David, you announce yourself as British, I assume you know what the "Boot" is, a rather nasty experience (let's see, first its a trip to the police station, then pay your fine and the cost of putting on the Boot +£100, find the guy who put on the Boot and pay him to take it off (another £100) and beg him to remove it within the next 6 hours; bad luck if you aren't htere when he does remove it, as they are likely to add yet another Boot for passing the parking meter by 15 minutes, back to square one.  I think CHF 40 is a fair price to pay. 


In Switzerland it is called "dénonciation", in the USA its the CIA+FBI=deportation, in France they are on strike, in Italy its the mob.  As for the UK, the Boot works just fine.


Poster, Jun 29, 2011 @ 22:24
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 6

I strongly suspect you might be right about the concierge.  I asked him if he knew about the tickets and parking rules and he seemed to know far more than I would have expected about the ticketing process and which cars had been done this week than I would have expected from a man who cleans the halls.  I guess its too late to bribe him?

The text you are quoting:

I strongly suspect you might be right about the concierge.  I asked him if he knew about the tickets and parking rules and he seemed to know far more than I would have expected about the ticketing process and which cars had been done this week than I would have expected from a man who cleans the halls.  I guess its too late to bribe him?


Marcus T, Jun 29, 2011 @ 23:56
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 7

I would suggest phoning the regie or the number on the ticket(or both if you don't have luck with the first one).


The contravention is quite likely to have been made out by private security company working for the regie. That’s what hapens where I live


Explain that you  live in the building and that you left your vehicule exceptionally for a tempory period and were delayed getting back to it in time and apologize,  ask them if it is possible to cancel the contravention.


With luck you may get away with it before the paperwork goes any further and just get a warning not to do it again. 


An official fine will have to be processed and would take probably about a month to arrive if you haven’t challenged it, or they aren't sympathetic to your request


 

The text you are quoting:

I would suggest phoning the regie or the number on the ticket(or both if you don't have luck with the first one).


The contravention is quite likely to have been made out by private security company working for the regie. That’s what hapens where I live


Explain that you  live in the building and that you left your vehicule exceptionally for a tempory period and were delayed getting back to it in time and apologize,  ask them if it is possible to cancel the contravention.


With luck you may get away with it before the paperwork goes any further and just get a warning not to do it again. 


An official fine will have to be processed and would take probably about a month to arrive if you haven’t challenged it, or they aren't sympathetic to your request


 


TogJay, Jun 30, 2011 @ 08:42
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 8

It is undoubtedly the conçierge of the building who stuck a PV on Marcus' windscreen. Legaly the owner of the property cannot go after Marcus directly (at least he didn't slash his tyres), however the police/admin play the game and do the legal ticketing.

My guess is that Marcus won't ever see a ticket for this offence (maybe he will, who knows), but just to say that the Swiss system is fair and reasonable.

To  David, you announce yourself as British, I assume you know what the "Boot" is, a rather nasty experience (let's see, first its a trip to the police station, then pay your fine and the cost of putting on the Boot +£100, find the guy who put on the Boot and pay him to take it off (another £100) and beg him to remove it within the next 6 hours; bad luck if you aren't htere when he does remove it, as they are likely to add yet another Boot for passing the parking meter by 15 minutes, back to square one.  I think CHF 40 is a fair price to pay. 

In Switzerland it is called "dénonciation", in the USA its the CIA+FBI=deportation, in France they are on strike, in Italy its the mob.  As for the UK, the Boot works just fine.


Jun 29, 11 22:24

Thanks for that detailed explaination of the "boot", I've never lived anywhere where they use such a thing.

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Thanks for that detailed explaination of the "boot", I've never lived anywhere where they use such a thing.


David G, Jun 30, 2011 @ 09:10
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 9

Forgot to say that in our parking lot the visitors places are officially valid for 3 hours, even though like yours there is nothing marked. 


The concierge here told me the time limit and security firm checks are often to dissuade frontalier workers from leaving their cars there during the day.


 

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Forgot to say that in our parking lot the visitors places are officially valid for 3 hours, even though like yours there is nothing marked. 


The concierge here told me the time limit and security firm checks are often to dissuade frontalier workers from leaving their cars there during the day.


 


TogJay, Jun 30, 2011 @ 09:14
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 10

David - they use the boot right here in Geneva. (or, at least, they used to) I was booted in the Mont Blanc parking garage a couple years ago for having a wheel on the yellow line. I had to go to the parking office, pay a 25chf fine and then they came immediately and removed the boot. I've been careful how I park, since then;-)


KEN///

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David - they use the boot right here in Geneva. (or, at least, they used to) I was booted in the Mont Blanc parking garage a couple years ago for having a wheel on the yellow line. I had to go to the parking office, pay a 25chf fine and then they came immediately and removed the boot. I've been careful how I park, since then;-)


KEN///


intlrep1, Jun 30, 2011 @ 10:33
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 11

I've never seen such tiny bays as you get in the Geneva carparks so I can understand you getting a wheel on a line.

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I've never seen such tiny bays as you get in the Geneva carparks so I can understand you getting a wheel on a line.


David G, Jun 30, 2011 @ 10:46
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 12
To conclude, I appealed and ended up with two fines of 60 each. B.....ds
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To conclude, I appealed and ended up with two fines of 60 each. B.....ds
Marcus T, Sep 5, 2011 @ 22:04
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 13

Yeah, never appeal parking fines in CH. :-(

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Yeah, never appeal parking fines in CH. :-(


David G, Sep 7, 2011 @ 20:53
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 14

Marcus: 2 fines of CHF 60 each? Why 2?


 

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Marcus: 2 fines of CHF 60 each? Why 2?


 


Nir Ofek, Sep 7, 2011 @ 22:54
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 15

.. to dissuade him from appealing again, presumably. How can this private company "fine" you extra, when you appeal? ..

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.. to dissuade him from appealing again, presumably. How can this private company "fine" you extra, when you appeal? ..


FerneyL, Sep 8, 2011 @ 08:25
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Re: Dénonciation for parking by CSDP
Post 16

There are cases of people who have gone to court about these kinds of fines and ended up with 1000 CHFs in court costs, additional fines etc.

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There are cases of people who have gone to court about these kinds of fines and ended up with 1000 CHFs in court costs, additional fines etc.


David G, Sep 8, 2011 @ 09:39
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