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Dillema!

Hi everyone,


I would like to know what rights a person renting a room in somebodys appartment has. I saw an advert about a room for rent and called the owner of the appartment saying i was interested in renting the room for a temporary period until i found my own appartment. I visited the place and paid 1000chf on the spot as that was the rent indicated on the advert.


 At that time, it was the 16th day of the month so i though i would be paying for the room on every 16th of the month. After moving in, the apartment owner mentioned that she prepared a contract and that she would like me to pay every first day of the month...and that we should assume that i moved in on the 15th (not the 16th) this meant that 14 days later, i had to pay afresh(1000chf) for a complete month and that the 1000chf i gave her the first time, would cover for the first 14 days (500chf) and the other 500chf, she kept as deposit.


On my second week there, she handed me a contract to read..this contract is in French yet she knew very well i dont speak french. So i kept the contract till i could find someone to explain it to me. Days went by and she started changing..in terms of rules, curfews and accussations that i didn do this and that. Now i wonder what to do because i really respect her that I dont even bring my friends over.


Im also surpried because she recently told me that her friend ``prepared`` a room to rent out in her apartment for 1000chf and that if i know a friend who needs it, i let her know..this caught me by surprise as it seems like they are looking for ways to make money through innocent flat hunters.


Its been one month now and she is still insisting on signing the contract...which i had someone read it for me and its very unfair.


First of all, i told her i would stay for a maximmum 3 months yet the contract says 10mnths


Secondly, it says that if i want to move out, i should inform her two months in advance and that if she felt displeased with me, she would evict me anytime without notice and not give me my deposit back.


It also says that she can only give me back my deposit two months after moving out and it depends on whether i will have made anything dirty, used too much water and a bunch of other things.


Its also funny that it says that if i seem not content around her apartment, she can kick me out without notice.....


Now im wondering, how do i deal with such a situation because im already fed up yet she wants us to sign the contract.


I will appreciate any advice.

The text you are quoting:

Hi everyone,


I would like to know what rights a person renting a room in somebodys appartment has. I saw an advert about a room for rent and called the owner of the appartment saying i was interested in renting the room for a temporary period until i found my own appartment. I visited the place and paid 1000chf on the spot as that was the rent indicated on the advert.


 At that time, it was the 16th day of the month so i though i would be paying for the room on every 16th of the month. After moving in, the apartment owner mentioned that she prepared a contract and that she would like me to pay every first day of the month...and that we should assume that i moved in on the 15th (not the 16th) this meant that 14 days later, i had to pay afresh(1000chf) for a complete month and that the 1000chf i gave her the first time, would cover for the first 14 days (500chf) and the other 500chf, she kept as deposit.


On my second week there, she handed me a contract to read..this contract is in French yet she knew very well i dont speak french. So i kept the contract till i could find someone to explain it to me. Days went by and she started changing..in terms of rules, curfews and accussations that i didn do this and that. Now i wonder what to do because i really respect her that I dont even bring my friends over.


Im also surpried because she recently told me that her friend ``prepared`` a room to rent out in her apartment for 1000chf and that if i know a friend who needs it, i let her know..this caught me by surprise as it seems like they are looking for ways to make money through innocent flat hunters.


Its been one month now and she is still insisting on signing the contract...which i had someone read it for me and its very unfair.


First of all, i told her i would stay for a maximmum 3 months yet the contract says 10mnths


Secondly, it says that if i want to move out, i should inform her two months in advance and that if she felt displeased with me, she would evict me anytime without notice and not give me my deposit back.


It also says that she can only give me back my deposit two months after moving out and it depends on whether i will have made anything dirty, used too much water and a bunch of other things.


Its also funny that it says that if i seem not content around her apartment, she can kick me out without notice.....


Now im wondering, how do i deal with such a situation because im already fed up yet she wants us to sign the contract.


I will appreciate any advice.


Nadia JOct 16, 2011 @ 11:37
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Re: Dillema!
Post 1

1. Don't sign.  If you sign, you will be bound to terms and conditions that are unfavorable and unworkable.


2. Get out ASAP.  Move out during the day while the flat owner is at work if you have to.


3. Fight for the return of your deposit and excess rent after you're gone and your possessions are safe.  Don't expect to win.


This situation has bad news written all over it.  You're about to be "wedded" to a high-conflict flat owner who is dealing from a position of power and is abusing that power.  Even if you learn that you do have some rights in this situation, do you really want to spend three months living under the same roof as someone who has proven through their actions that they don't have your best interests in mind?  They have breached an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing; I would not expect them to suddenly find Jesus and say "I'm sorry" tomorrow.

The text you are quoting:

1. Don't sign.  If you sign, you will be bound to terms and conditions that are unfavorable and unworkable.


2. Get out ASAP.  Move out during the day while the flat owner is at work if you have to.


3. Fight for the return of your deposit and excess rent after you're gone and your possessions are safe.  Don't expect to win.


This situation has bad news written all over it.  You're about to be "wedded" to a high-conflict flat owner who is dealing from a position of power and is abusing that power.  Even if you learn that you do have some rights in this situation, do you really want to spend three months living under the same roof as someone who has proven through their actions that they don't have your best interests in mind?  They have breached an implied covenant of good faith and fair dealing; I would not expect them to suddenly find Jesus and say "I'm sorry" tomorrow.


richardm, Oct 16, 2011 @ 12:17
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Re: Dillema!
Post 2

0. Join the ASLOCA - www.asloca.ch - and go to their offices for advice.  Bring all the papers and a friend who speaks French.


The level of blatant abuse of landlords in the Leman zone never ceases to outrage me.


 

The text you are quoting:

0. Join the ASLOCA - www.asloca.ch - and go to their offices for advice.  Bring all the papers and a friend who speaks French.


The level of blatant abuse of landlords in the Leman zone never ceases to outrage me.


 


TheOmegaMan, Oct 16, 2011 @ 20:57
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Re: Dillema!
Post 3

Thanks guys for your advice.


I thought about joining ASLOCA but don't know if my story will be credible to them since this was initially a verbal agreement until the apartment owner brought about the contract issue. I also thought that they only solve regie vs tenants issues and not tenant vs housemate issues.

The text you are quoting:

Thanks guys for your advice.


I thought about joining ASLOCA but don't know if my story will be credible to them since this was initially a verbal agreement until the apartment owner brought about the contract issue. I also thought that they only solve regie vs tenants issues and not tenant vs housemate issues.


Nadia J, Oct 16, 2011 @ 21:50
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Re: Dillema!
Post 4

Oh by the way, i asked her if she could write the contract in english as i couldn't read the complex french and she objected saying thats the way it is...

The text you are quoting:

Oh by the way, i asked her if she could write the contract in english as i couldn't read the complex french and she objected saying thats the way it is...


Nadia J, Oct 16, 2011 @ 21:59
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Re: Dillema!
Post 5

Don't sign. Verbal agreement are hard to prove, while written are not..


Get out ASAP,


Join ASLOCA and ask them to help,


Get another apartment.

The text you are quoting:

Don't sign. Verbal agreement are hard to prove, while written are not..


Get out ASAP,


Join ASLOCA and ask them to help,


Get another apartment.


FerneyL, Oct 16, 2011 @ 22:17
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Re: Dillema!
Post 6

Before you leave, ask her for a copy of the original lease. Take this copy with you to ASLOCA. If she won't give you this, see if there are any notices in  the building to get the name of the company managing the building. 


Once you get out of the apartment, ask ASLOCA to help you write a letter to the landlord and include a copy of the lease she gave you to sign. With luck,  the landlord will kick her out of the apartment for having violated the terms  of her original lease.

The text you are quoting:

Before you leave, ask her for a copy of the original lease. Take this copy with you to ASLOCA. If she won't give you this, see if there are any notices in  the building to get the name of the company managing the building. 


Once you get out of the apartment, ask ASLOCA to help you write a letter to the landlord and include a copy of the lease she gave you to sign. With luck,  the landlord will kick her out of the apartment for having violated the terms  of her original lease.


Translator, Oct 16, 2011 @ 23:04
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Re: Dillema!
Post 7

Some points might have been mentioned but


1. ASLOCA is a must verbal contract or otherwise.  You can get appointments quickly and also in the late afternoon if you have trouble getting away from work/college.


2.  I assume you have a receipt for the monies you have paid so far - take it with you.  I am not a lawyer but I think for ASLOCA that is proof that yaou have a basic contrac/right (Translaotr will correct me on this point)


3. Take the copy of the lease and as Richard says, do not sign


4. With ASLOCA you can also discuss whether you can stay in the appartment until you have found somewhere else


 

The text you are quoting:

Some points might have been mentioned but


1. ASLOCA is a must verbal contract or otherwise.  You can get appointments quickly and also in the late afternoon if you have trouble getting away from work/college.


2.  I assume you have a receipt for the monies you have paid so far - take it with you.  I am not a lawyer but I think for ASLOCA that is proof that yaou have a basic contrac/right (Translaotr will correct me on this point)


3. Take the copy of the lease and as Richard says, do not sign


4. With ASLOCA you can also discuss whether you can stay in the appartment until you have found somewhere else


 


Paul E, Oct 17, 2011 @ 08:57
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Re: Dillema!
Post 8

Nadia,
May I ask you if this apartment is at Place Molard?


Thanks,


Rena

The text you are quoting:

Nadia,
May I ask you if this apartment is at Place Molard?


Thanks,


Rena


rena, Oct 17, 2011 @ 15:38
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Re: Dillema!
Post 9

Hi Nadia,


Asloca might help in giving you some first hand advice. You have been renting a room - it does not matter from whom.


However if you want to take action you will be directed to a lawyer, whom you'll still have to pay.


Geneva is French speaking. So you cannot expect to receive a contract in English. Some of the things in the contract are just good practice (e.g. the deposit) and you would insist on them as well if you were subletting a room. Others might be malicious or at least not what you have agreed upon orally. Also Swiss law puts tenants in a strong position - not everything written in a contract will be enforceable.


ASLOCA might help you sort out what is just Swiss law or Swiss habits you need to adopt to and what is malicious profiting of the shortage of apartments.


Good luck!


Jörn

The text you are quoting:

Hi Nadia,


Asloca might help in giving you some first hand advice. You have been renting a room - it does not matter from whom.


However if you want to take action you will be directed to a lawyer, whom you'll still have to pay.


Geneva is French speaking. So you cannot expect to receive a contract in English. Some of the things in the contract are just good practice (e.g. the deposit) and you would insist on them as well if you were subletting a room. Others might be malicious or at least not what you have agreed upon orally. Also Swiss law puts tenants in a strong position - not everything written in a contract will be enforceable.


ASLOCA might help you sort out what is just Swiss law or Swiss habits you need to adopt to and what is malicious profiting of the shortage of apartments.


Good luck!


Jörn


Jörn E, Oct 17, 2011 @ 16:19
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Re: Dillema!
Post 10

Hi Nadia,

Asloca might help in giving you some first hand advice. You have been renting a room - it does not matter from whom.

However if you want to take action you will be directed to a lawyer, whom you'll still have to pay.

Geneva is French speaking. So you cannot expect to receive a contract in English. Some of the things in the contract are just good practice (e.g. the deposit) and you would insist on them as well if you were subletting a room. Others might be malicious or at least not what you have agreed upon orally. Also Swiss law puts tenants in a strong position - not everything written in a contract will be enforceable.

ASLOCA might help you sort out what is just Swiss law or Swiss habits you need to adopt to and what is malicious profiting of the shortage of apartments.

Good luck!

Jörn


Oct 17, 11 16:19


This advice is good.  When you go to ASLOCA you have to join which is around 70 francs per year and it is Jan to Jan so you will pay the full whack for 2 months.  But then your initial discussions with lawyers are free.  


If it gets to a court case then you have to pay the ASLOCA lawyers but they are cheap compared to Geneva lawyers


As Jorn says.  You cannot expect an English contract in Swizerland unless it is a huge organisation such as Swisscom just as you could not expect a French contract in the USA or Afghanistan

The text you are quoting:


This advice is good.  When you go to ASLOCA you have to join which is around 70 francs per year and it is Jan to Jan so you will pay the full whack for 2 months.  But then your initial discussions with lawyers are free.  


If it gets to a court case then you have to pay the ASLOCA lawyers but they are cheap compared to Geneva lawyers


As Jorn says.  You cannot expect an English contract in Swizerland unless it is a huge organisation such as Swisscom just as you could not expect a French contract in the USA or Afghanistan


Paul E, Oct 17, 2011 @ 16:44
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Re: Dillema!
Post 11

ASLOCA has lawyers experienced in all kinds of housing/rental issues.  You would almost certainly pay their attorneys less than other Geneva based lawyers.


Receipts are vital -- with date, place, amount, purpose and signature unless you made the transaction via a bank.  


1) Sign NOTHING;  


2) Get receipts and copy of lease. If she claims to be the owner of the apartment, demand proof of ownership; 


3) If you feel you must stay there, ask ASLOCA for assistance in drafting an appropriate agreement with terms that are generally acceptable.


Good luck!


 

The text you are quoting:

ASLOCA has lawyers experienced in all kinds of housing/rental issues.  You would almost certainly pay their attorneys less than other Geneva based lawyers.


Receipts are vital -- with date, place, amount, purpose and signature unless you made the transaction via a bank.  


1) Sign NOTHING;  


2) Get receipts and copy of lease. If she claims to be the owner of the apartment, demand proof of ownership; 


3) If you feel you must stay there, ask ASLOCA for assistance in drafting an appropriate agreement with terms that are generally acceptable.


Good luck!


 


Translator, Oct 17, 2011 @ 16:42
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Re: Dillema!
Post 12

Thank you guys so much for the advice. I went to ASLOCA and they advised me on what to do which was...I decline signing the contract since it didn't state that I can as well terminate it if its not followed. I was also told to discuss with the lady and remind her of our first verbal agreement.


So i did all that and everything is ok I will be moving out at the end of this month but I have the duty to find the next tenant.


And Rena, no its not at Place Molard...its actually not in the center.

The text you are quoting:

Thank you guys so much for the advice. I went to ASLOCA and they advised me on what to do which was...I decline signing the contract since it didn't state that I can as well terminate it if its not followed. I was also told to discuss with the lady and remind her of our first verbal agreement.


So i did all that and everything is ok I will be moving out at the end of this month but I have the duty to find the next tenant.


And Rena, no its not at Place Molard...its actually not in the center.


Nadia J, Oct 17, 2011 @ 20:21
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