I was at the Fête yesterday and I cannot believe someone tried to pickpocket from me. Luckily they didn't get away with it, I felt it, turned around so fast and slapped them. The guy looked at me, shocked and said, "It wasn't me..." Judging by the reaction of the person standing behind him who promptly turned around it was obvious he was telling the truth but whatever. It was obvious they were brothers or friends. I swore at them and made a scene so others would see/hear.

I've seen a LOT of police around the lake area during the festival but what are they looking out for exactly? I can't believe with so many police around these #$#$#@#@ are still getting away with trying to pickpocket innocent people. What infuriates me though, is that I haven't seen a single sign anywhere in Geneva warning about the dangers of pickpockets, signs that I have seen in other European cities.

Thanks for the heads-up, Livia. I guess pickpockets must also seize the opportunity that some people drink a little bit and get less cautious.

To add to your recommendation, I would advise leaving with the mass of people when the bars close (around midnight?) rather than sticking around...

Alain

No problem Alain. What angers me is not just that they did it to me but continue to do it every day to unsuspecting people - locals, newcomers, tourists, anyone.

From what I've experienced and read (and from what you are saying too) it seems to happen in two scenarios

1. In very crowded places (mostly festivals/events and buses/trams/train station) particularly if you are distracted by something.

2. In very UNcrowded places, particularly late at night, and especially if you are alone and have to fend for yourself.

I've spoken to locals who tell me they didn't even realise they knew of this problem and they've lived here all or nearly all of their life!

"2. In very UNcrowded places, particularly late at night, and especially if you are alone and have to fend for yourself."  

How can someone pickpakcet another when out in the open?  Do you mean people actually get robbed face to face late at night?

It is by an organised group, usually more than 2. They usually target at someone (whether alone or with his/her friend(s)), by friendlily talking to you, and especially if you look friendly or responding with more than 1 phrase to his (their) talk to you.

HAND-SHAKING: One of the technicques they do is by shaking hands. If you accept shaking hands, his/her another hand is in your pocket or bag while you are looking at his/her face and one of your hands is taken by him/her - defenseless on your one side.

Once I got it, knowing this fxxxxxg way and I hit hard his hand, astonishing him and his fellows (as I knew it). My friends also realised it. They were speechless and walked away. These kinds of criminals are usually cowards once you know what they are.

It happens in a bar or anywhere, on the street around the outside table when you have a bottle of drink chatting with your friends. Usually, this criminal's fellows make a circle around you (& your friends) blocking the scene of crime from the view of others nearby.

Be careful with a stranger(s) coming to talk to you, smiling and trying to shake hands so quickly (or in the middle of talk) WHEREVER you are, WHENEVER you are in town, crowded or not.

Yes there are cases of people being robbed (rather than pickpocketed). So be vigilant! it tends to be in poorly lit places near popular areas but not actually in them...they try to catch people walking home in the early hours.

A couple of guys tried to hold me up for my wallet and mobile phone. I think they've chosen a path on the straight and narrow now. I dont advise people to hand out education to these people as they do carry knives.

Some people in more crime ridden countries carry a 'dummy wallet' with a small amount of money and some old cards.. enough to make them run off. Or just hand over what you've got and dont be fromt page news as a tragic victim!

Another heads up, this can also happen in peaceful areas in full daylight!

I was sitting peacefully reading my book and eating my lunch on a bench in the jardin botanique one day, with not many other people around me, a young guy who looked a bit like a student/tourist came to ask me some information. As I was being helpful and explaining to him where to go, his buddy came up behind the bench and grabbed my bag from next to me. Didn't notice a thing, just my instinct made me look next to me as a$$h0le number one was walking away, I noticed my bag was gone, turned around and there was number 2 walking off with it. I yelled and he dropped it, nothing was gone, I got lucky. Maybe I was stupid to think these things don't happen in these circumstances, but its not like I got up and left my bag anywhere, it was just next to me

All this to say, you need to be vigilant at all times, not just in crowds, or late at night when alone! I now leave my handbag in the office when I go out to the park, and practically sit on the few things i take with me, my phone and badge. Don't let yourself get distracted, always have a hand on your valuables. Now I feel like a grandma when I'm out, clutching my handbag on my lap, but its the moments you are a bit distracted or feel secure that these things can happen!

Thanks for all the advice.  Whenever suspicious looking people approaches us, especially at tram stops, we tell them to f*** o** even before they try to speak to us.  They end up walking away to find their next victim.

I think there are few ways to scare off this kind of people:

1 - Pay attention to how they look and how they dress. From my personal experience I can say that dressing (including the hairstyle!) almost always reveals the "true nature" of the person.

2 - Don't walk in over-crowded places alone because these people walk in groups of 2+ people.

3 - Don't talk to them. Never (as before said). Answer short, in an uninterested manner. Don't smile.

4 - Know what type of person you are. Whether you're ready to fight them back or just walk away without saying anything. My advise is to be cautious, depending on the situation, place and people you confront.

5 - If you decide to confront them, one of the techniques is to shout (yell) at them. This has a pshychological effect on such people and they step back (in most of the cases).

6 - Don't take many valuables with yourself, unless u need them. Don't show off your mobile phone (especially Iphone) or anything expensive.

7 - Be cautious of people running towards you. What they usually do is that the running guy grasps your, f.e., mobile phone and very quickly passes it over to somebody who's walking behind you. Of course, they are fast. Even if you run and catch the guy, he will not have the phone. I've seen this thing in my life, they act very very fast. Moreover, they use a similar technique in an over-crowded bus

8 - Don't put any valuable into a bag that can be easily cut with something sharp.

Hope this info helps somebody.

I felt it, turned around so fast and slapped them. The guy looked at me, shocked and said, "It wasn't me..." Judging by the reaction of the person standing behind him who promptly turned around it was obvious he was telling the truth but whatever.

"Whatever" is a very cavalier attitude toward a miscalculation that could've resulted in your harm.  You aren't in AUS; men here often hit back.  I've seen it happen three times in my two years living in CH.  Bystanders generally will not white-knight and intervene on your behalf.

How can I live three decades in this city and never get into a fight or pickpocketed and you somehow manage to bring up this topic all the time? 

of those 3 decades half of the time you were a kid so had nothing in your pockets to pick?  if you dont think its a problem you are very nieve to your surrounds and have spent 3 decades with your eyes shut. 

it is an issue that the police do seem unable to do basic things to stop, a few well placed cameras for a start, random searches, even some camera on the plain palais market to catch and prosecute both the crooks flogging there goods and the market stall holders for buying it from them. 

I walked from the station down rue de mont blanc yesterday and ok no one approached and or tryed to rob me but the view of the lay abouts hanging around was not seeling me the image of a city often voted in the top 5 in the world.

Perhaps I should have just directed my post at women as it seems that it doesn't phase most men as much. My guess is that, as women, we:

1. Carry far more stuff

2. Are more sentimental about our stuff

3. Are less able to fend for ourselves should the attacker personally attack us and therefore feel more afraid about incidents like this.

In reply to richardm: I don't know about you, but in circumstances like this I don't sit around twiddling my thumbs thinking about what to do next... It was an INSTINCT. It just happened in less than a second. When one is faced with a shocking or traumatic situation one is often NOT in full control of their emotions and actions. I don't find your 'advice' very helpful at all, especially for something that has already happened.

Richard A - I don't know, maybe it's just bad luck.. Like I said, they didn't get away with anything of mine but also maybe if THE CITY OF GENEVA ACTUALLY PUT UP SIGNS TO WARN PEOPLE AND INSTALLED MORE CAMERAS AND PUT LIGHTING IN PARKS AT NIGHT instead of idly just sitting in their offices typing up thousands of stolen items reports daily and saying, "Oh but these criminals are so hard to catch..." and trying to protect the idea that Geneva and Switzerland are the safest places in the world, incidents like this would happen less often.

I'm tired of the comments that allude to the fact that, "Oh but you should have been more careful then it wouldn't have happened to you" which are just inappropriate and rude. I AM careful but should I be totally paranoid? Sure it could happen anywhere but in all my years of living in Sydney it never once happened, nor did it happen when I was (alone) in Paris, Rome, Florence, Barcelona or London and various other smaller cities. Is it just bad luck or coincidence or what?

It is not a problem for me because I take the correct precautions. Some people don't. Why would not being the victim of a type of crime make you  the naive one? 

In reply to richardm: I don't know about you, but in circumstances like this I don't sit around twiddling my thumbs thinking about what to do next... It was an INSTINCT. It just happened in less than a second. When one is faced with a shocking or traumatic situation one is often NOT in full control of their emotions and actions.

Let's reverse the positions and propose that a man turns around and slugs YOU (who is standing behind him) when he detects a hand fishing in his pocket.  Would you permit him to use "it was only instinct" and him not being in full control of his emotions and actions as a valid excuse?

I don't find your 'advice' very helpful at all, especially for something that has already happened.

The lesson is there; whether you choose to learn from it is your decision.

Livia. I think it was a combination of bad luck and what seems to be an increase of this type of crime in Geneva.

This can happen anywhere and when it does, whether you're a man or a woman, you feel embarrassed and weak. I had an event in the UK 13 years where someone jumped me, held me down on the pavement and threatened to stave my head in with a dumbell. Luckily a passerby yelled something and he backed off.

This happened in Weybridge, Surrey, which some here will know is arguably one of the safest place to live in the UK, Also when it happened, like you, I had to endure all manner of total twats, dispensing pearls of wisdom like, "If it'd have been me, I'd have decked the f--ker!", or I'd have done this that or the other. The truth is, unless you're trained for it, you won't know what you'll do!

I would agree though about the cameras and one other thing that could help would be if anyone reading this has experience of teaching self-defence training or knows someone who could organise something along the lines of a series of short courses to help, (1) prevention of situations like this and (2) developing the reflexes to deal with it when it happens.

I'm not talking about a three year Karate course but just some basis techniques which could help defend yourself if you're unfortunate enough to end up in situations like the above, which sadly seem to be coming more and more frequent in Geneva.

Livia C. You were just unlucky.

One band had performed live in Nyon, came down, some people asked to be photographed with them, later turned out those who had asked for the pictures had stolen the artists bags along with documents and money. This was with security. The bags were found a little further away.

The fact the thieves took pictures of themselves with the victims is what is most surprising.  

I've lived here 22 years, it never happened to me for 21 years, and suddenly twice in the last year

Just a case of being unlucky and in the wrong place at the wrong time I guess, and an increase in such events...

LIvia,

I think you should hire a bodyguard to protect you and carry your camera apparatus ;-). 

LOL, this is pretty funny.

It depends on how you define "suspicious looking people" but this is a bit of an extreme and paranoid attitude, in my opinion.

It is not yet forbidden to talk to strangers in public places in Geneva...

As soon as I knew that I was hired in geneva, I took krav maga courses. All these dirty streets filled by suspicious looking (aka coloured ?) peoples really freaked me out. Now..i know that I can smash their eyes, jaws, throats knees and i hang around safely.. it reminds me my good old kansas hometown. I love it.   

Hmm...Unlucky...not sure I would use that word.  Interesting to see people's reactions to Livia's story...

In my opinion there is plenty more the police and security guards could do, but they don't. Which was a huge shock to me when I arrived 4 years ago and still is!

I grew up in Surrey and London which are far more known for crime than Geneva, but it was here in Geneva that I was pickpocketed. And to go back to the point made by Alirus:

1 - Pay attention to how they look and how they dress. From my personal experience I can say that dressing (including the hairstyle!) almost always reveals the "true nature" of the person.

That is really misleading since the man who stole my wallet was taking the 'UN' Bus 8 and was wearing a suit. (Happy to say that the Mofo's didn't realise that my wallet was pretty much a dummy wallet - UK money and 1 credit card (which had just expired 'hallelelujah') and other cards useless in Switzerland. So as most of you were taught, don't judge a book by its cover - it really does apply.

However, even in upscale stores such as Globus, Bon Genie or Manor where people come to spend serious cash the lack of securtiy is, well, shocking. Another attempt at pickpocketing me happened in Manor. I tried to explain this to a security guard (who I had to search for - wouldn't happen in Selfridges or Harrods). He then explained that he could not go to check on the security cameras to catch the theiving toerags because he was the only 1 or some crap like this. Ok this was 2009 but in 2011, I can still spot a thieve or 5 in these shops.

By the way did I mention that if you are unfortunate enough to be pickpocketed around the Gare Cornavin, you may find yourself at the police station there. Where the officer will hand to you a huge ring binder folder, with mug shots of KNOWN criminals.So they know there is a problem but who should tackle it? The police? Well, you would think? But apparently, not here.

So I agree with Livia C, look out for yourself and friends because I'm not entirely sure if the police will do it for you.

And some of you said that she was unlucky. Pfah.

... suspicious looking (aka coloured) peoples freak you out?  So people of color are suspicious looking and freak you out? 

Thank you for being an openly honest racist. 

If this is an attempt at sarcasm or what some French call "second-degree" humor, it was an epic fail.

Please desist from jokes (if this was one) - it has racist overtones. Why stereotype "coloureds" ?

When I first read that post I thought crikey someones dropped a clanger there. However, maybe the use of the phrase coloureds is a language issue (as it's no longer acceptable to use that phrase).

Perhaps in a very poor way he was referring to the groups of people I have seen (in both Lausanne and Geneva) who hang out on the streets and offer weed, E and charlie. They dont freak me out. I just say no thanks and leave them to it. It's just a couple of isolated groups its not the whole race! Maybe 50 people at most!

You have a point I guess, its all about context so maybe I just over-reacted, it doesnt detract though from the point being made that one needs to be careful in Geneva and should not be complacent.

If I may add my $0.02...

I was born here and lived in the US for the last 10 years. Traveled to many developping countries and never had anything stolen from me... until my 2nd week back here. (happened at a club)

Someone above mentioned that Geneva gives you a false sense of "security" and I kind of agree. I got my iPhone stolen out of my (very tiny) purse while on my shoulder. 

My Mom got robbed on trams and at the train station 4 or 5 times. But also in her car while at the gym....

And my great aunt who has a jewelry store in the "rue basses" has had countless robberies over the years... they've even attacked her with pepper spray.

Theives love Geneva because people probably more money on them than most places and are also less scared to get robed so they make easier targets.

One of my good friends is a policeman here and it's not true that they don't take this seriously, they do. it's just a very dificult problem to solve. If you do get robbed I encourage you to go talk to the police with any info you have because a lot of time it can help them catch the guys (eventually) ... they cough some of the guys that robbed my mom - those were a group of eastern europeans lurking around the train station.... they watched as she put in her pin to buy her train ticket...then stole her wallet as she entered the train... they went to the UBS...put in all her cards with the pin...the Poste...it was done in 10 min....they got 8000CHF. Assholes. .... I got her a new purse with a better zipper for Xmas :-)

When I go out I put a Lock on my purse and keep 20 Chf in my pocket. 

What are you banging on about?! His post used VERY offensive language whether or not it was "parody".

Secondly, I was not advocating the use of 'violence' as a solution - merely suggesting people consider the option of learning how to defend themselves should they wish. 

I'm embarassed to say that after participating in this forum posting yesterday, I got surprised by another slimy hand in my handbag on my way out last night. Again, it can happen anytime anywhere these days: daylight, getting on the tram at Rive, felt pressure on my bag. Grabbed his hand, made sure he didn't take anything and shoved him off. My fault, he saw me playing around with my iphone, slipping it in my bag.

Ladies (or perceptive gents), do you think theres a "safer" type of handbag to carry? this was an across the body bag, with a zipper and a buckle, though have to admit I just buckled and didn't zip. Maybe an over-the-shoulder under the arm bag close to the body is better? One with full body armour and 4 bodyguards included? Piranhas in the bag?

Obviously, always zip always zip always zip!

Maybe Hitler was doing a convincing parody in the 40s. Either way probably best to not do it at all.

Lets draw a line under all this mayhem and just be on our guard against crime be it a robbery or a stranger taking our posessions as a parody about crime.

This is the kind I have : "coach signature demi pouch" http://www.burnfashion.com/product_info.php?language=en&currency=USD&products_id=809

and then I have a little lock that looks a bit like this (without the bling) that I use to attach the zipper to the buckle to keep all slimy hands OUT!!!!

http://www.squidoo.com/Signature-Heart-Trio-Purse-Lock?utm_source=google&utm_medium=imgres&utm_campaign=framebuster

I'm not a huge internet poster..maybe my tenth post in my whole life..but i'm delightfully surprised that the godwin's point was reached so quickly. Considering my VERY offensive language, my post consisted in a quote from this forum and one other from wikipedia... i'm not gonna quote Desproges, this would be useless, but if you understand french, here is my gift for you all : 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HtH_Hosomok

Thanks Annie! Yeah thats probably the best way to go, something close to the body that they can't get into without you feeling it

Shame, I liked my new bag, guess I'll have to keep it for adventures through the Rio slums and other safer places

Hi,

To be sure none of you are, please do take the Harvard test @

https://implicit.harvard.edu/implicit/

Your language WAS/IS offensive. 

Remember that the Internet does not carry the tone of your voice, so who knows if you are trying to be funny or not, so let me help: it was not funny.

I try my best to really listen to people, so I simply take your racist overtones as you showing us you are racist.  If that’s who you are, fine, but I personally do not wish to see it on Glocals. 

It’s sad to see what started as an alert for ALL of us to be vigilant devolve into whatever it is YOU are trying to broadcast.

In fact, Hitler was mocked and not taken very seriously. And look how well that all turned out.  

Many of us appreciate irony, sarcasm, parody and so on.  We are far from being ignorant, humorless or provincial even if we do hail from Kansas, Michigan or any other of those United States of America.

Too many times these 'crime-related' forums end up with some posters referring to 'gypsies,' or 'others.'  Just look at the latest UDC posters demonizing foreigners, once again as invading Switzerland, stomping over the Swiss flag. I don't believe anyone wants what happened in Norway to happen here. 

There are all kinds of criminals here.  The point is to alert people to how to better protect themselves against it and what to do if you become a victim.

Robi,

Thanks for your reply, but you are NOT Francois so you do NOT know what he is thinking.  We have to evaluate him by his actions/words and not your interpretation of his posts. 

Thank you again.

In as much as I hate to say this, I totally agree with Translator.  Francois attempt to entertain us, has left me far from amused and left him with egg on his face.

Francois do the right thing and apologise for your controversial comments.  Close your account and give us a break.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7BR4gXOe36k

here is my answer 4min17, english subtitled

What about an apology?? Just saying....

Because in case you had NOT NOTICED - It looks like no one here is laughing at your 'humour' ?

And to make matters worse...this extract is from 1982!!

- Before I was even born

- not relative to today and

-not remotely funny.

In fact its shows your true colours...The 'humouriste' is describing the pianist to be as "nègre" as the piano---? WTF??

So you are trying to rectify your own foolish mistake with material that is non -politically correct?? Seriously?

François, I really don't know what kind of point you are trying to prove....?But as I said, an apology wouldn't go amiss.

I wondered why François posted this on another forum one minute after you posted the above: "politically correct: A way that they speak in America so they don't offend whining pussies."

Now I'm no expert on diplomacy but I've got a feeling an apology from him won't be forthcoming.

Wow is this Francois dude serious?

He is serious.... seriously ignorant.  And you know what? At least he is honest about his bigotry, but obviously a _____, hiding behind a keyboard. 

Next subject.

To the rest of us, be safe out there, be vigilant, and do enjoy Fetes de Geneve.

Ok..this is what i read yesterday:

First : Mignon O 10:51 copy/paste Whenever suspicious looking people approaches us, especially at tram stops, we tell them to f*** o** even before they try to speak to us... 

As you have noticed, I have added couloured with a ?...I just wondered what kind of people were these so called suspicious peoples...I doubt she spoke about the regular yuppie hanging around in his jaguar. Call me a racist..i don't care.

Second : Rich 12:54 copy/paste : if anyone reading this has experience of teaching self-defence training or knows someone who could organise something along the lines of a series of short courses to help, (1) prevention of situations like this and (2) developing the reflexes to deal with it when it happens.

Cher François, thank you for taking the time to explain to all of us the reasoning behind your posts.  I never thought for a moment you were racist, just arrogant, but then you're French and the two go together.  Call me racist if you want, I don't care :-)

> do you think theres a "safer" type of handbag to carry?

Across-the-body bags are better than over-the-shoulder bags, as they are more difficult to snatch.  Wear them with the bag on your front, not on your side or on your back (suggestion courtesy of a friend who lived in Latin America for ten years) and zipped up, not just fastened with the buckle.  If the bag has a double-slider zip, put the sliders to the front.

In a restaurant or when sitting on a public park, always secure your bag to a chair or a bench.  That's easy to do if the strap of your bag has a snap-hook; otherwise, if the strap is long enough, you can tie it around a bar of the chair via a reef knot (Google for it and try to figure it out).  And always keep an eye on it.

Wallets on the back pocket of your jeans are a big no-no.  Wallets on external pockets of backpacks are neither; put rather the wallet inside the backpack with some wrapping around (e.g. clothes) so it can be reached only with difficulty.

> As for the Hitler comparison, maybe if he'd been ridiculed and mocked by parodies when he started gaining power...

It was.  Enjoy a grotesque Nazi Donald Duck in Der Fuehrer's Face, by Walt Disney (1942).

http://www.xkcd.com/169/

Thanks for that. Well the parody was so well done that I fell for it and I'm a frequent user of parody, sarcasm, irony and outrageous absurdism. so I have a good laugh at myself.

So no criticism from me about Francois however when you read people talking about random searches and the appearance of rue Mont Blanc which I sometimes traverse in the evening with my 14 and 19 year old returning from rue de Paquis up to Cornavin, and negative almost racist comments in other fora about gypsies etc. it was easy to fall into the well lain trap.

Robbery and pickpocketing occurs in so many cities and its good to remind people that it also happens here but I feel some indignant reactions bear more on the fact that people perhaps had too high an opinion of Geneva as some chic safe haven free of crime and populated by beautiful shiny people. It's like any other city i.e. populated with human beings a small proportion of whom do bad things.

One has to be very careful and very good using sarcasm etc. and even with the best sometimes people don't get it - I remember the outrage when as a teenager, the negative reaction to Randy Newman's Short People song despite he being short and lyrics at the end saying short people are just like you and me.

For me in the use of sarcasm, parody, absurdity one has to have an almost clear clue in the joke to show it is not serious and I missed and still miss that clue in Francois' post. In face to face speech or with standups often body language, facial expressions, tone of voice is used to indicate the joke.

Unfortunately in Francois' case it didn't work in the written form. Who reading Swift's Modest Proposal would miss his point? I got conned but I don't think Francois did a good job; however forgive and forget and I still have a good laugh at myself for being fooled.

Doug Stanhope on Nationalism and anti-immigration.

I've said this before and I'll say it again: generalisations, speaking of one person as if he/she represented an entire race or country, labeling whole groups of people as 'something' is a dangerous game to play. You're bound to get some sharp reactions. This is forum where people come from all parts of the world: I love this fact. Lets try to respect as many of them as possible! :) I'd rather irritate Leo than offend someone else!!

Touchée!!!  My apologies if you feel I have insulted/stereotyped 60 million people with my joke and let me assure you it was not my intention. But I could not help it, it was stronger than me!  Anyway, François took it the way I expected, as a compliment.  But again, I am sorry, I should not have posted it but sent it only to him. 

Have a great day. 

Well you did add :) to the end of your post which should indicate it was meant in a good humored way. There are also these 'emotions' icons one can use and perhaps Francois can think to use either device in the future so us dummies will get the intended parody.

In fact I was trying unsuccessfully to post you that your comment on the French Francois was typical of what a (deservedly) inferior to the French (whose humor is inferior to the English) Spaniard would say, followed by one of those icons with a wink. Neither the icons nor the post button worked, so here I go again Spanish pirate!

well done for standing up for yourself

I find that there are a lot of poorly lit areas in Geneva unfortunately