Oh you're killing me now. It's getting more and more boring :(

Calvin lives.

why of this weird decision?

Apparently, because some people who live near the bars complained about the noise. They live in a city on the famous nightlife streets and they don't want noise? Maybe they should live in a lost farm in the montain then... 

And usually the law says that all bars and nightclubs must have noise reduction structures built... at least in "normal cities", this is what the law says about this subject... 

It looks like the decision is already made: "Décision-choc de l'Etat: à minuit, on ferme les bars"

Who knows wich will be the next law? The curfew at 22pm? "No one can be in the street after 22pm!"

Welcome to the Medieval Era! Don't forget to give water and hay to your horses before going to bed! (Maybe the cars will be illegal also soon...) 

Source: http://www.tdg.ch/geneve/actu-genevoise/decisionchoc-etat-minuit-ferme-bars/story/26820102

and bars' owners didn't compell? 

I believe they did but you know how politics and interests run everything... 

yes, same happened in Turin, the famous bar at ''Murazzi'' have been all closed, pretty sad and also a big loss for Turin 

Good decision. atleast some people can sleep now comfortably... 

Yes... I guess they will sleep better knowing that lots of bars and nightclubs will close and put lots of people on the "unemployment street"... they will sleep so confortable now... 

Try living in the Old Town, especially near Petit Palace, which closes -- sometimes -- at 4:45 am in the morning. After that, 30-45 minutes of drunks yelling and screaming, bottles breaking, vomiting, etc., a lovely variety of french expressions such as 'pede, je vais t'enculer' and so on... You might at least want the bars to close at 2am any way...

guys, have you read ALL the text? from 900 geneva bars asking for closing time at 2pm instead of midnight, as the law demands, only 20-30 were denied based on past behaviour. I'd not call this the end of the world...

http://www.tdg.ch/geneve/actu-genevoise/decisionchoc-etat-minuit-ferme-bars/story/26820102

Sur les 1860 cafés du canton, 919 ont déposé une requête pour jouer les prolongations, 799 l’ont obtenue. Selon le Service du commerce, 120 établissements ont donc essuyé un refus: 92 voulaient ouvrir jusqu’à 2 h mais devront fermer à 1 h. Restent 28 bars qui voulaient ouvrir jusqu’à 2 h mais qui devront fermer à minuit:  «Leur demande a été rejetée suite à un préavis négatif de la gendarmerie et du Service du bruit»

Some bars are indeed smack in the middle of residential areas, and I understand noise might be an issue for the neighbors. But if that's the case, there's potentially other solutions than closing at midnight:

1. Give bars a choice: either close at midnight, or commit to have X security guards outside to control the noise. Maybe most bars will still choose to close at midnight cos the other option will be too expensive, but at least they'll have a choice.

2. Limit the midnight thing only to bars in residential places.

Just saw Wanessa's post, that only 20-30 bars will really have to close early because of past behaviour. That ain't too bad.

Translator: closing at 4:45 is different than 2am and completly different than midnight. If they close at 4:45 and only have the permit to close untill 2am, they are not respecting the law. But that's another issue. Because of one bar (or even more) that don't respect the law they shouldn't change it to everyone, even for those who respect it. They should just fine those and that's it. But as I said, that's another issue.

About the "20-30 bars thing", I'm not so sure if that is so simple. Take a look at a  comment from a guy on Facebook about this subject:

"Il y a une grand hypocrisie à affirmer que seulement 28 cafés sur 1860 n'ont pas reçus leur dérogation pour ouvrir jusqu'à 2h du matin, et que ce ratio est minime.

1. La plupart des 1860 cafés genevois ne sont même pas ouverts jusqu'à minuit, en semaine comme en week-end.

2. La plupart des 1860 cafés sont diurnes et pas nocturnes.

3. La plupart des 1860 cafés ne sont pas très attractifs, pas forcément bien fréquentés, et surtout méconnus et souvent vides.

4. On a par contre la certitude que les 28 cafés qui doivent fermer à minuit, sont 28 cafés à succès, car attractifs, au style affirmé et audacieux, gérés par des équipes imaginatives et créatives qui se bougent pour attirer du monde et apporter un plus à Genève.

Conclusion, les 28 cafés qui doivent fermer à minuit, sont probablement 28 lieux parmi les plus intéressants qui existent à Genève.

Quand Genève ne voit pas plus loin que le bout de son nez, et se tire une balle dans le pied."

If that's true, then the "20-30 bars thing" is NOT a small problem... 

(why the hell the "translator part" is in orange? sorry for that, don't know how i did that...) 

Bars closing at nights? Might as well move back to England... but in England bars are opening later... and do bars really need to be open and empty anyway? :-). Geneva is not the liveliest place... That's why there is the mass exodus to the mountains every weekend by car, and by train and plane for bigger cities. 

Sorry but i get fed up with the Geneva is boring tag !!!  If you want live drunken madness all night long may i suggest you go to Ibiza or some other places.  I like the way Geneva is.

@Rui G:

After living in this city for awhile, I can tell you with some confidence that it takes a hell of a lot of 'noise' to get the city/canton to act on anything. This means that the noise along Ecole de Medecine and other streets is probably really, really intolerable and has been the case for a long time.

What is the solution for those bars? Should more police be hired just to move along the remaining revelers -- at 20-30 bars. The 'shushers' don't work and private security guards can't force people off the streets. 

Let's make a friendly bet to see just how many bars and restaurants will be closed at midnight. I doubt any will be. It's just posturing. The relevant committee might be too concerned with their evening wine to get anything done.

http://worldradio.ch/wrs/news/wrsnews/geneva-finance-committee-whines-at-booze-ban.shtml?34526

P.S. I use colored-texts all the time, so no worries...

No, it's because the mountains are the mountains and not a bar. I thought, that was obvious ;)

FerneyL:

Speak for yourself. I head to Chamonix nearly every weekend not only  because it's the mountains, but also because I find the night life there a lot more lively than that in Geneva. If Geneva's night life was better, I'd stay in town far more often.And it's the same among most of my friends.

Robert:

Great that you like Geneva the way it is. That doesn't mean you should get upset when other people point at things that bother them about Geneva.

There's also a huge difference between what you call "drunken madness", to people wanting to stay out on weekends later than midnight.

Glad someone read the article to clarify is not all bars but just about 20-30ish.

Don’t want to cause a panic for those who live for bars after 12midnight.

I must say that there are some bars that do very well and can afford the security but they don’t do anything and this is not good for the industry as a whole. And bars after midnight just mean more drunk drivers, so it is not just about the noise that worries me. I was living next to a bar and fortunately the owner was always encouraging everyone to keep quiet or try stay inside, or he would stop serving them. So it’s really up to the owners to either shape up and respect the neighbour’s or they lose their privilege.

I like to hang out at a bar for American sports but as the time zones dont make it great, its would just make it impossible to enjoy the games in those locations, like Pickwicks or Clubhouse. I like these places, but they do also have alot of noise if its big sports nights or summer time. So they need to consider this very seriously.

I never had and still do not have any problem getting totally drunk by midnight. It is a question of getting the starting time and the momentum right. 

I only ask for one thing that a warning bell is rung a few minutes before closely time so that I can get my last orders in

Friends are not important as by 11pm nobody can understand what I am saying and even if they could, they would find it boring

I really  do not understand the concept of being bored !!!  There is so much to do around here ?!

It baffles me.......................

Sorry

Dave G: "Glad someone read the article to clarify is not all bars but just about 20-30ish"

I don't know if it's that simple...read my previous post 

Paul E:

Let's get drunk earlier! Ahah! That was funny! 

Robert M: "(...) so much to do around here"

Are you talking about nightlife?  I hope this isn't the best you have ever seen about nightlife, for your own sake... 

I believe in a thread about nightlife, Robert is trying to say there is no need for bars or nightlife.

I know some people living in zurich (300 bars and many until 4 and some until 6, and 50 clubs closing at 5 am (Fridays and Saturdays) and they do not know any bar.

It is a choice, if you are married, if you are a guy that do home partys and discussions in home.

When i was in Portugal, i never needed a bar. With homes with 4 floors, pools, garden, kids all over the place, 30 malls in one city, everyone with cinema.

Now in Zurich, i think bars are nice. You can not do parties in home after 10, waking up 6 am Saturday or Sunday to hiking....Lord, i came from Mountains in Portugal...i am sick of it.......you want to see Mountains go to Portugal, plant some potatoes at 6 am and tell me if you want to see mountains anymore.

Not Mountains, lets see lakes (i came from Porto with river and Ocean). See lakes? Please........

Do you see the point Robert? Depends on which people likes and what to do.

Do not tell me you are the one that goes hiking, or seeing mountains or lakes...please.

Jeeez dude, take a chill pill, its just nightlife does not equate to geneva being boring , there 2 things are unrelated.  I lived in the UK before coming here and i got plenty of nightlife galore its just I have adapted to the life here and i do not have to tag a whole city with the 'boring' adjective.  I have seen this come up so many times on glocals.  Yes granted the electro scene (not always true, I have seen some great stuff) does tend to suck in Geneva and so does the rock scene for that matter,but if i want that I go to Zurich.  Geneva is a calvinist city and will never be a party town, its historical and the sucession of mayors here want to keep it that way.  I enjoy the outdoors as much as going to a party, its all about balance.  But yeah if your main staple and life fullfilement boils down to PPPPAAAARRRRTTTTYYYYYYY then yes I can understand you find Geneva a bit boring,,,,totally

if someone is really have some problem with geneva, There are thousands of cities in the world with wonderful night life, plenty of drugs and no problem to shout/fight on the streets in the middle of night. you can go there and start your "Night" life.

Every city has its own way of life. you can't force to impletment your thoughts and way of life on their people and culture/traditions.  

I really don't understand what is going on with you people. Everyone is compalining with switzerland or swiss people. Some are saying "Swiss are rude/ignorant" they don't know how to walk on the streets, Other are saying they are bullies and Now some are saying their cities are boring. They don't know how to have a night life. 

Someone needs to have a "chill pill"... 

No one is trying to implement anything. No one talked about drugs and fighting on the streets. No one said the swiss are rude, don't know how to walk on the streets and are bullies (at least not in here) but I did say that, IN MY OPINION, the nightlife in Geneva is poor and the new law will totally kill it.

And why did I oppened a topic about this? Because I was just showing a report that went out in a Swiss Journal (Tribune de Geneve), and after I gave my opinion about that. Is as simple as this.

So what, just because I have a BAD opinion about a subject, I can't say it?! Is it my fault that I have already visited or lived in other cities where the nightlife was better and that's why I can compare them and conclud that Geneva nightlife is worst than the others? I have my opinion based on my life experience and tastes, you have yours and everyone has theirs but the way you talked seems like we can only share our opinions if they are GOOD?!

Instead of sending people to other cities and talking about things no one said you should just prove that my opinion is wrong and said "I agree with the new law because..." and maybe you would have shown me that I'm actually wrong.

This is just chitchat about one subject (that was born from a actual journal report): nightlife in Geneva. But if you want we can talk about Quantum Physics or Structural Damage in a Concrete Building during an 7.0 Earthquake According to the Richter Magnitude Scale.  

Don't take this so seriously and don't be rude because no one was rude to you. Everyone is just giving their opinions. That's the way we should do it in a civilized world: talk in a constructive way.

Relax and take it easy man 

It seems that some expats, having accepted well-paid employment and the oportunities for easy access to winter sports and European travel in general, feel deprived because there’s no transplant of their “home comforts”   to CH.  Have they ever thought how newcomer s feel when they arrive in, say, the UK and find that the life-style is very different indeed from the one they knew “back home”?  Immigrants have no choice but to accept, learn the language and adapt or else . . .

So why shouldn’t there be reciprocity in CH  – accept,  adapt, and try to learn at least a bit of one of the national languages if you can.  (In French-speaking Switzerland, the locals are very tolerant in not enforcing the linguist ic requirement.)

You pays yer money and you takes yer choice:  higher pay and living standards but less night life.  There’s no way we can have it all.  And with the economic downturn, I know where my priorities lie.

As for pub-ing or club-ing, could someone   please explain what’s so exciting about a repetitive alcoholic binge every weekend?

R.  

To give you perspective from the other side, I used to run a bar in one of the "problem" streets in Geneva, I was involved in regular meetings with the authorities and other bar owners and managers from these areas. I was even part of a task group that actively sought a solution to this problem, meeting with the authorities and the residents.

The problems we encoutered were:

1. The majority of the noise complained about was not from inside the bars and pubs, but from people outside, very often these people were not even clients

2. No matter our efforts certin residents (the ones constantly complaining) were not willing to cooperate on finding solutions.

3. The initiative we put in place was over taken by the state, diluted, half the resources needed allocated and then target area tripled in size, authorization was given for 2 weekends - it obviously failed - during the talks, when we protested against the heavy hand of the state, we were told to shut up and be grateful they were even willing to consider our intiative.

90% of our clients were willing to cooperate with our demands to keep quiet, those who didn't were asked to move along, there was nothing we could do against the people who were not our clients making excessive noise, this is the job of the police to maintain order, as it is their jurisdiction and the only ones with the authority to do so.

One main problem I had was with a family who moved in opposite the bar, and within the first week were trying to sue us for excessive noise, and constantly calling the police. Ok they were opposite a lively bar, but this was stated in their lease, and they received the benefit of a reduced rent because of this.

The owners of the bars in these troubled areas have done everything possible to respect the neighbours, but their efforts have rarely been supported, and now face losing a minimum of 20% of their monthly income, I doubt they will survive long. Ok so only 20-30 bars, what's the big deal - try explaining that to the 100+ people who's lives are about to be ruined as their income is taken away from them.

Problem?

Solution: LAUSANNE

Great nightlife.  

Cool Swiss People. And a few cool expats. 

The alternative is hanging out with Ritchie and Paul while they watch paint dry on a Saturday night.

So much for your daily goals of “kindness, generosity and forgiveness” -- dixit your profile.

R.

@ Ritchie

Thanks for cyber-stalking. 

The day is young my friend. And I was only exstrapulating on your previous angry diatribe against the expat community that you gleefully posted on an expat forum board. 

You made broad generalizations about people you don't even know. So I decided a little quid pro quo might be in order. Besides you should not be troubled unless I have unwittingly outed you for some odd paint drying voyeur/ ExPat hating/bashing fetish that you have. Which I doubt is really the case with you.  Or at least I hope that's not the case. Which if it is then you have my apologies and I beg for your forgiveness if I have truly offended you by exposing your fetish. And again if that's the case then let me make it up to you by buying you a beer. Pick a morning, bring a friend I will be there to pay for your beers so as not encourage ungrateful expats into enjoying their drink into the night. You can lead by expample.  It's a brave new world. 

Roman: I think you're going too far on the personal angle thing. Let's relax.

All: let's keep this thread focused on people's opinions on bars maybe closing at midnight, with no more personal attacks (or wild generalisations). If there's more personal attacks, we'll remove them and suspend the posters.

Nir, glocals admin

I only drink malt.

R.

So you only drink Malt?

Would that be single malt whiskey? If it's whiskey then we do indeed have common ground. And that's aways cool. 

Or was this what you had in mind? ( see videos )

When fancy faux French actors, Dr. Dre and Snoop Dogg can come together on proclaiming their affinity for fine Malt Liquor Beverages, then one has to take notice of such a ringing endorsement.  

And even though it's rare for me to rock a 40oz on any occasion. I think it's cool if you still do things old school. And there is certainly some common ground to be had there too. 

WhiskEy?  Perish the thought!

Ritchie

(who does things her way).

Spoke with my colleagues today, this decision has affected 220 bars in Genveva

So far from the 20 or 30 bars... this is even worst... 

Yes, 28 bars ( list in the tribune) have to close at midnight every day, but almost 200 other bars will only be allowed to be open until midnight during the week, and 1 am friday and saturday evening according to the standard bar licensing hours.

Do you have any idea how many jobs could be lost as a result?

R.

Do not seem bad 1 am in Friday and Saturday.

Maybe this is an opportunity to open a club there.

The law just refers bars or refers nightclub?

How is the law for nightclubs?

Here's an article in English from the radiofrontier website. The article makes a good point about the smoking ban having had the effect of sending more people outslde to get their nicotine fix. I wonder whether most bars have smoking rooms now. I have seen quite a few places seem to have set them up.

Let's see whether any of it is enforced. After all, the authorities don't really seem to care whether underage kids drink in bars here. The more powerful bars and nightclubs certainly won't be affected which is too bad.

http://www.radiofrontier.ch/news/local-news/geneva-nightlife-suffers-another-blow/

Buvette Richmond: I am wondering what you think people who live in the neighborhood and who are bothered by the noise should do? With the housing crisis, it is really difficult to find anything, especially for families. Some leases already have clauses written in to ensure that rent cannot be reduced any further and no one visits an apartment at 1am in the morning so there is no real way to experience the noise level before moving in.

Should taxes be raised so that more police can be hired to move people off the streets in order to ensure that these bars and restaurants keep that 20% of business? 

What do you consider cooperation by neighbors who live there? Their understanding that they and their kids will have to sleep with earplugs?

We could also consider not only jobs that might be lost because of the ruling but greatly reduced productivity of those people who suffer hours of lack of sleep on a nightly basis because of the noise. 

Again, should taxes be raised in order to increase police presence in order to reduce noise -- given all the other issues of drugs, rapes, robberies and so on?

I think we can do the math on this with a fair amount of confidence. According to the original article, these bars do about 20% of their total sales from midnight to 2am. Having been in that business I can safely say that sounds about right for a late night bar ring and that each bar has conservatively 5-10 employees. So it stands to reason that 20% of those empoyees will no longer be needed because the loss in revenue will not support their jobs existence any longer. 

Let's round up for easier calculation.

230 bars. 5-10 employees at each bar. Split the difference for a mean average 1.5 employees lost immediately per establishment , for a total of 345 roughly.

Figure on about 3 million+ chf in lost income tax revenues associated with those jobs. And that is not even counting the lost bar revenue or residual job losses in the supply chain or the impact on the real estate market. 

I would to say something maybe it will not be pleasant but i will delete if shock anyone.

I am from Porto, Portugal (a city where people are also noisy and make noise in streets) but now i live in Zurich.

Zurich bars are open until 4 am (Friday Saturday) and night clubs 4, some 5 and others 7 am.

If you know Zurich, you know these bars are in residential places.

Maybe i am wrong but i never saw complains here. Even me. Are houses better?

At weekdays i agree midnight (people has to sleep and be productive) now at Fridays and Saturdays?

I think maybe the problem are not the bars but education non?

If people in Geneva are like Porto when we sing "We are the champions of the world" after a game (after midnightt) or even at 2 am after some drink the resolution is the same as Porto:

Research Cais de Gaia (Gaia Peer). Gaia made a Street with bars in of the shores of the River. Nobody lives in River and we have a cosy place with bars, clubs and discos open until 3 am.

Other solution was to put bars in a cultural area (nobody visit a musem at 2 am...so put a bar and disco near to a museum).

These 2 solutions ended with Porto bars noise (not 100% but this is what you expect from a city, not to ban).

What 'education' specifically? And many of us here are from big cities... we aren't all 'yokels.'

Perhaps if the bars and restaurants in Geneva were better, I'd be complaining about them closing. Then again, I'm not much of a fan of euro-disco, David Guetta....

Translator - there are no quick fixes for a solution such as this, but tolerance should be shown on both sides, you say nobody visits an apartment at 1 am, maybe they should, maybe the residents share some responsability in checking out the neighbourhood they are going to move into, If I see my new apartment is going to be in a narrow street with acoustics that amplify sound containing 3 restaurants, 3 bars and a night club, I will go there during the night to see exactly how noisy it gets. The same as if I was in an area reputed for drug users and gang violence, I would check it out, not just hope everything would turn out fine.

It is the responsability of the bar owners to make sure they do not go pass the limits of noise legally accpetable, maintain order over their clientele. The streets are the responsability of the state of Geneva to maintain order upon.

Now there are measure each bar can take,and many have, where they can hire security to ensure clients remain orderly in the streets, do not take their drinks outside and such. I did this in my bar, it cost me 15% in profit, but I also reduced noise complaints by 80%. Dialouge with neighbours also has to be established, to work with each other,not fighting with each other, efforts have to be made on both sides, bars do as much as possible to limit noise pollution,neighbours have to be tolerant and understand that although bars will do as muh as possible there will always be some noise as people enjoy themselves.

In my opinion bars should close during the week at 12, 2 am at the weekends, and terraces must be closed by 12 every night.

There does not necessarily need to be constant police presence babysitting the street, schemes that we proposed to the state, such as street teams trained in dealing with the party goers, who would kindly and playfully remind people to keep the noise down (it does work, i did it) financed partly by the bars, and partly by the state, or even fully by the bars, if 400 francs a weekend is going to save 1000s in takings, it is a good investment.

Again there are no easy fixes, its a delicate situation, and efforts from all sides have to be made.

For the moment nightclubs are not included in this, as they have different licenses.

I already know of bars that are encouraging their staff to look for other employment as they cannot gaurantee them hours or even employment anymore.

It still possible to drink from 5pm to 8am straight through in Geneva, any night of the week...trust me I have done it.

At weekends if a bar closes at 1 then go to one that is open till 2 , then to a club till 5am, and then to an "after bar" or "after party",,,

The only thing this new law is doing is closing specific bars in certain areas at certain times where there have been multiple (and often justified) complaints.

ps... all bars and clubs are feeling the pinch of the economy... people go out later and spend less... 

It still possible to drink from 5pm to 8am straight through in Geneva, any night of the week...trust me I have done it.

My best friend too. Admittedly a few moons ago, mais "plus ça change, plus ça reste . . .".

R.

Hey Rui,

How are you?

Well done for starting a thread, but it really is pointless.  Someone will always say that there is lots to do in the region .  However when you ask them what it is they do, they reply well, i goto Zurich or Lausanne or perhaps there are perfectly happy to sit in and read a book (nothing wrong with that by the way) but these people are obviously not concerned about Geneva's nightlife.

There are lots of students in Geneva and not everyone can afford to travel 50km or more to go and have fun.  It really is a shame that the young expats and locals are not catered for.

Just have to grit your teeth and wait for the summer :-)

I do agree that certain bars do not deserve to stay open, Le Petit Palace is a prime example of how not to run a respectable establishment. (I feel sorry for you, if you live next door)

Geneva has never offered much in the way of reasonably priced leisure facilities for young people and there’s no sign that this will ever change.

I think it’s a case of grin and make the best of it until you can move on to more entertaining pastures.

R.

I think a lot is being done in next years to help Geneva.

If you read SBB plans in 5 years you will have an extended line Geneva - Anemasse, France (travel time 20 minutes).

I believe the idea of Swiss Government is to displace people to live in France.

Now it is time to Annemasse to make a move :D

http://www.sbb.ch/en/corporation/the-company/projects/upgrading-the-rail-network/ceva.html

The dream that the Canton of Geneva and its closest French neighbours have had for such a long time will soon become reality with the Cornavin–Eaux-Vives–Annemasse (CEVA) rail link. With this link it will be possible to reach Annemasse from Geneva in 20 minutes via Cornavin, Lancy-Pont-Rouge, Carouge-Bachet, Champel-Hôpital, Eaux-Vives and Chêne-Bourg.

I dont think Geneva is that boring, not more boring than a lot other european cities.... I mean look at paris for example, a massive city with 10 million people and its nightlife sucks.....  compare it to other cities its size around the world and you'll realize how lame paris is!!!  that applies to london too.... quite expensive and boring.... and the 21st century NYC all gentrified sex and the city like 

if you want a nice fun affordable city, go to bangkok, buenos aires, madrid, berlin, mexico city.... stay away from self proclaimed great alpha world cities (london, paris, nyc and yes geneva)

why would you want to party in Annemasse and risk getting shot or stabbed or racially abused, seriously?

I'm having difficulty understanding your point, have you been to Annemasse recently?

Hi. A little context:

This topic was focused on Nightlife and became generalist about living in Geneva.

I have to focus it is not my opinion but others and i provided the link of SBB/CFF project .

If you read carefully it says:

"

By providing a main axis in the suburbs, CEVA aims to expand the rail network in the region. Connecting the Swiss and French networks is already improving rail travel options on both sides of the border. Thus CEVA is playing an important part in developing the France/Vaud/Geneva region. The project will strengthen the cross-border relationship, not just economically but also in cultural and social terms. Since 2002, Franco-Swiss committees have been conducting studies into the areas of infrastructure, operations, border control and legislation."

Please do not ask me whtat means cultural and social strengthen relationship since i am not author of such hard study, analysis and approval.

Maybe it  means that Geneva will become Annemasse or Annemasse becomes Geneva or even halfway.