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Learning about short term furnished apt rental

Well, I've spent two weeks learning the hard way so I thought maybe people can point to advice I should have read before I started :-)


I wanted a furnished apt with separate bedroom/living room for three months.


I began with the idea that I might get one for 2000 CHF/mth. After searching immostreet and various short-term apartment sites I was prepared to pay almost twice that. I liked one but of course not yet having arrived in Geneva at the time the landlord gave it to the person that called first. Lesson#1: pay a hotel for a few weeks and start searching then (snag: working 8-5, isn't that a bit hard to do?)


I liked another one and went quite quickly through the application process. Some points were not clear to me and I asked some questions (eg "Is the first payment one month rent as deposit plus the first month in advance?") and got more forms back but no answers. I returned them, asking more questions in my emails. When I got the final contract I realised they wanted an initial payment of almost 12,000 CHF for two months as deposit plus the first month in advance! Lesson#2: if someone is not answering your questions, they are either not reading them (relying only on what is written on official forms) or not understanding them ( their first language is almost certainly not English).


I also learned about costs not stated in the advertised price : heating extra, electricity extra, wifi extra, nameplate rental (WTF?), cleaning deposit, cleaning charges, administrative charges, VAT (TVA) and probably others I didn't see. Maybe a window tax ;-) ?


I also discovered that they insisted on rental risk insurance but would not tell me what that was or where to get it. So, what is it? It can't be insurance against non-payment - there is no risk as they are being paid in advance. It cannot be contents insurance - I insure my property, not someone else's. When did you ever have to take out insurance to book into a hotel or guest house for a month? And even if you did, any commercial organisation  with any sense of customer service would have ready-made contracts for 3 or 6 months to sign - perhaps at a rate a high street insurer might charge for a year, but at least it would simplify the process.


They also wanted to see  my salary slips or work contract. I did that, but I felt offended at being asked to disclose commercially sensitive information. It's none of their business, they are getting their money up front and don't need to know how much I earn. (If they ever did not get their money on time any day, they can do what Irish landlords do - just change the lock when I am out to work and I come back to find my possessions - or what's left of them - on the street.)


They also asked for a form of non-poursuite and again did not explain this. Some googling told me that I had to apply online at the geneva.ch website and pay 14 CHF. OK, I did that.


Lesson#3: ask on a forum like glocals.com what the heck all that stuff means, and start again. :-)


I don't have the heart for it at the moment as I found the entire experience frustrating and overbearingly bureaucratic. By contrast, I phoned the Park&Suites in Gaillard, got a two room apartment the next day for  (converted to CHF for comparison ) c.2200 /month, 900 damage deposit, no intrusive questions, no demands to jump through legal & administrative hoops, just a straightforward business deal.


Why can't it be as simple as that in Geneva?


 

The text you are quoting:

Well, I've spent two weeks learning the hard way so I thought maybe people can point to advice I should have read before I started :-)


I wanted a furnished apt with separate bedroom/living room for three months.


I began with the idea that I might get one for 2000 CHF/mth. After searching immostreet and various short-term apartment sites I was prepared to pay almost twice that. I liked one but of course not yet having arrived in Geneva at the time the landlord gave it to the person that called first. Lesson#1: pay a hotel for a few weeks and start searching then (snag: working 8-5, isn't that a bit hard to do?)


I liked another one and went quite quickly through the application process. Some points were not clear to me and I asked some questions (eg "Is the first payment one month rent as deposit plus the first month in advance?") and got more forms back but no answers. I returned them, asking more questions in my emails. When I got the final contract I realised they wanted an initial payment of almost 12,000 CHF for two months as deposit plus the first month in advance! Lesson#2: if someone is not answering your questions, they are either not reading them (relying only on what is written on official forms) or not understanding them ( their first language is almost certainly not English).


I also learned about costs not stated in the advertised price : heating extra, electricity extra, wifi extra, nameplate rental (WTF?), cleaning deposit, cleaning charges, administrative charges, VAT (TVA) and probably others I didn't see. Maybe a window tax ;-) ?


I also discovered that they insisted on rental risk insurance but would not tell me what that was or where to get it. So, what is it? It can't be insurance against non-payment - there is no risk as they are being paid in advance. It cannot be contents insurance - I insure my property, not someone else's. When did you ever have to take out insurance to book into a hotel or guest house for a month? And even if you did, any commercial organisation  with any sense of customer service would have ready-made contracts for 3 or 6 months to sign - perhaps at a rate a high street insurer might charge for a year, but at least it would simplify the process.


They also wanted to see  my salary slips or work contract. I did that, but I felt offended at being asked to disclose commercially sensitive information. It's none of their business, they are getting their money up front and don't need to know how much I earn. (If they ever did not get their money on time any day, they can do what Irish landlords do - just change the lock when I am out to work and I come back to find my possessions - or what's left of them - on the street.)


They also asked for a form of non-poursuite and again did not explain this. Some googling told me that I had to apply online at the geneva.ch website and pay 14 CHF. OK, I did that.


Lesson#3: ask on a forum like glocals.com what the heck all that stuff means, and start again. :-)


I don't have the heart for it at the moment as I found the entire experience frustrating and overbearingly bureaucratic. By contrast, I phoned the Park&Suites in Gaillard, got a two room apartment the next day for  (converted to CHF for comparison ) c.2200 /month, 900 damage deposit, no intrusive questions, no demands to jump through legal & administrative hoops, just a straightforward business deal.


Why can't it be as simple as that in Geneva?


 


Patrick OMar 4, 2011 @ 20:52
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Re: Learning about short term furnished apt rental
Post 1

 


Because Gaillard is in France and Geneva is in Switzerland, and never the twain shall meet.


R.

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Because Gaillard is in France and Geneva is in Switzerland, and never the twain shall meet.


R.


Ritchie, Mar 4, 2011 @ 23:38
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Post 2

Sounds like you were slightly ripped off.. 12.000 CHF.. that's outrageous.


For comparison, you can rent a hotel room in neighbouring France for 50EUR/night.

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Sounds like you were slightly ripped off.. 12.000 CHF.. that's outrageous.


For comparison, you can rent a hotel room in neighbouring France for 50EUR/night.


FerneyL, Mar 5, 2011 @ 01:44
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Post 3

.. and you might find that many emails go unanswered, even to large companies.. even if they are written in perfect French. The phone appears to be the better choice. Other times, service is outstanding. One never knows.

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.. and you might find that many emails go unanswered, even to large companies.. even if they are written in perfect French. The phone appears to be the better choice. Other times, service is outstanding. One never knows.


FerneyL, Mar 5, 2011 @ 01:53
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Post 4

Just one correction point. Irish landlords can not just change the lock when you are out to work and put possessions - or what's left of them - on the street.


It's completely illegal as I hope it is in Switzerland too and leaves them open to large fines and legal action.


Anyway good luck with the move, I moved over first and then searched but hadn't counted on a slight delay and the Genvea motor show.


 

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Just one correction point. Irish landlords can not just change the lock when you are out to work and put possessions - or what's left of them - on the street.


It's completely illegal as I hope it is in Switzerland too and leaves them open to large fines and legal action.


Anyway good luck with the move, I moved over first and then searched but hadn't counted on a slight delay and the Genvea motor show.


 


Sheona G, Mar 5, 2011 @ 11:27
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Post 5

I have been in the same boat as you and found the process equally frustrating. I've encountered either scams, no responses, or strange requests of multiple combinations. I ended up doing the same thing as well. I booked a place similar to Park & Suites near the French/Swiss border for the first part of my stay in Switzerland. 


Everyone on this site has been extremely helpful, but I have found the apartment search a frustrating experience to say the least. 


Good luck with whatever you're doing in the country. :)

The text you are quoting:

I have been in the same boat as you and found the process equally frustrating. I've encountered either scams, no responses, or strange requests of multiple combinations. I ended up doing the same thing as well. I booked a place similar to Park & Suites near the French/Swiss border for the first part of my stay in Switzerland. 


Everyone on this site has been extremely helpful, but I have found the apartment search a frustrating experience to say the least. 


Good luck with whatever you're doing in the country. :)


Liz Nicholson, Mar 5, 2011 @ 20:01
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Post 6

"3 months rent deposit + 1st month rent is a regular procedure"


For a three month rental? That may be regular, but I don't think it proportionate, so I voted with my feet.


"you should have a pro-active attitude when looking for flats,"


Yes, I agree, I had initially been expecting to be treated as a customer and have my questions answered. The difference between an Appart-Hotel and a Regie is that between industries - the first is in a hospitality industry and treats people as guests. The second is in the fishing industry; they are trawlers who grab a lot of people in their net, give them to the landlord, and the rest are thrown back in the sea.


"produce your work contract and pay slips is a totally legal procedure".  I would expect that for a long-term unfurnished residence, where people want to move in their furniture and make a home for a family, where a landlord wants the assurance that the tenant can continue payments. For a short-term rental, where the rent is paid in advance and it is simply a place to stay, I resent that as an intrusive snoop into my business. What data privacy rules protect such information?


"furnished flat is the easiest solution"  That;'s what I was looking for, a furnished flat, as stated in the subject line.  That's where all my annoyance stems from. I can understand all the formalities for an unfurnished apartment for long-term occupation. I don't see that renting a furnished apartment for a few months is any different from a guest house or hotel with suite rooms.


"Rental risk insurance is against hazards such as fire or other". That's up to the landlord; it's their property, they insure it out of the revenue they make from me and the insurers know the use being made of the apartment.


P


 


 


 

The text you are quoting:

"3 months rent deposit + 1st month rent is a regular procedure"


For a three month rental? That may be regular, but I don't think it proportionate, so I voted with my feet.


"you should have a pro-active attitude when looking for flats,"


Yes, I agree, I had initially been expecting to be treated as a customer and have my questions answered. The difference between an Appart-Hotel and a Regie is that between industries - the first is in a hospitality industry and treats people as guests. The second is in the fishing industry; they are trawlers who grab a lot of people in their net, give them to the landlord, and the rest are thrown back in the sea.


"produce your work contract and pay slips is a totally legal procedure".  I would expect that for a long-term unfurnished residence, where people want to move in their furniture and make a home for a family, where a landlord wants the assurance that the tenant can continue payments. For a short-term rental, where the rent is paid in advance and it is simply a place to stay, I resent that as an intrusive snoop into my business. What data privacy rules protect such information?


"furnished flat is the easiest solution"  That;'s what I was looking for, a furnished flat, as stated in the subject line.  That's where all my annoyance stems from. I can understand all the formalities for an unfurnished apartment for long-term occupation. I don't see that renting a furnished apartment for a few months is any different from a guest house or hotel with suite rooms.


"Rental risk insurance is against hazards such as fire or other". That's up to the landlord; it's their property, they insure it out of the revenue they make from me and the insurers know the use being made of the apartment.


P


 


 


 


Patrick O, Mar 6, 2011 @ 20:29
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Post 7

OK, Sheona, I admit the possessions-on-the-street thing was an exaggeration, to raise pictures of evictions :-)  But I certainly know landlords who have changed locks.  Think about it - if you did not pay your hotel bill on time, would you be let back into the room?


Remember, I'm not talking about family homes which have legal protection - I'm talking about temporary residence.


 

The text you are quoting:

OK, Sheona, I admit the possessions-on-the-street thing was an exaggeration, to raise pictures of evictions :-)  But I certainly know landlords who have changed locks.  Think about it - if you did not pay your hotel bill on time, would you be let back into the room?


Remember, I'm not talking about family homes which have legal protection - I'm talking about temporary residence.


 


Patrick O, Mar 6, 2011 @ 20:52
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Post 8

"3 months rent deposit + 1st month rent is a regular procedure"

For a three month rental? That may be regular, but I don't think it proportionate, so I voted with my feet.

"you should have a pro-active attitude when looking for flats,"

Yes, I agree, I had initially been expecting to be treated as a customer and have my questions answered. The difference between an Appart-Hotel and a Regie is that between industries - the first is in a hospitality industry and treats people as guests. The second is in the fishing industry; they are trawlers who grab a lot of people in their net, give them to the landlord, and the rest are thrown back in the sea.

"produce your work contract and pay slips is a totally legal procedure".  I would expect that for a long-term unfurnished residence, where people want to move in their furniture and make a home for a family, where a landlord wants the assurance that the tenant can continue payments. For a short-term rental, where the rent is paid in advance and it is simply a place to stay, I resent that as an intrusive snoop into my business. What data privacy rules protect such information?

"furnished flat is the easiest solution"  That;'s what I was looking for, a furnished flat, as stated in the subject line.  That's where all my annoyance stems from. I can understand all the formalities for an unfurnished apartment for long-term occupation. I don't see that renting a furnished apartment for a few months is any different from a guest house or hotel with suite rooms.

"Rental risk insurance is against hazards such as fire or other". That's up to the landlord; it's their property, they insure it out of the revenue they make from me and the insurers know the use being made of the apartment.

P

 

 

 


Mar 6, 11 20:29

 


Bemoaning the housing shortage in Geneva and Régies’ rules and regulations and practices is nothing new.  Those who have accommodation to offer are demanding because they can pick and choose their tenants – and they do.  Wouldn’t you?


Over the years, I have lived in rented accommodation in London (twice), Zurich (3 times), Cairo, Montreal, Colombo, and Geneva (several times between assignments) and I can testify that it was not easy to match availability with location and price in any of these cities.  Even in ‘empty’ Sri Lanka, there was still a wait of almost six months before finding a place of our own.


If one accepts an assignment in a foreign country, one has to be prepared to abide by its customs and almost inevitably compromise in terms of facilities and financial outlay.  If you want to find exactly the same conditions as at home, it’s better to stay put.  


 


 

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Bemoaning the housing shortage in Geneva and Régies’ rules and regulations and practices is nothing new.  Those who have accommodation to offer are demanding because they can pick and choose their tenants – and they do.  Wouldn’t you?


Over the years, I have lived in rented accommodation in London (twice), Zurich (3 times), Cairo, Montreal, Colombo, and Geneva (several times between assignments) and I can testify that it was not easy to match availability with location and price in any of these cities.  Even in ‘empty’ Sri Lanka, there was still a wait of almost six months before finding a place of our own.


If one accepts an assignment in a foreign country, one has to be prepared to abide by its customs and almost inevitably compromise in terms of facilities and financial outlay.  If you want to find exactly the same conditions as at home, it’s better to stay put.  


 


 


Ritchie, Mar 6, 2011 @ 21:38
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Post 9

I trust that hundreds of short-term-furnished (but not only!!) apartment-seekers can very well identify with your experience. Thank you for sharing.


You are soooo right!


in particular about the very regrettable attitude of régies -


... in the fishing industry; they are trawlers who grab a lot of people in their net, give them to the landlord, and the rest are thrown back in the sea....


Hope that now that you've found a 'home-base' you can enjoy your stay in Geneva:-)

The text you are quoting:

I trust that hundreds of short-term-furnished (but not only!!) apartment-seekers can very well identify with your experience. Thank you for sharing.


You are soooo right!


in particular about the very regrettable attitude of régies -


... in the fishing industry; they are trawlers who grab a lot of people in their net, give them to the landlord, and the rest are thrown back in the sea....


Hope that now that you've found a 'home-base' you can enjoy your stay in Geneva:-)


nomades, Mar 6, 2011 @ 22:22
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Post 10

"Rental risk insurance" ....


alcidia m, I think I'm confusing travel and home insurance. I'll check with some insurance companies here. Before I left, I filled in an enquiry form on the AXA-Winterthur web site but got no response. I'll ask around here.


"You should know" .... is there a sticky thread somewhere saying "10 things you should know before moving to Geneva?"  If not, I should be able to create one by the time I leave!


My gripe is more with the lack of information and assistance from the renting companies than with the nature of the market (low availability, high price). They may be right to demand certain things but offering me no information as to how to get them is not customer service. But then, I should remember that I'm not their customer, the landlord is.


 

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"Rental risk insurance" ....


alcidia m, I think I'm confusing travel and home insurance. I'll check with some insurance companies here. Before I left, I filled in an enquiry form on the AXA-Winterthur web site but got no response. I'll ask around here.


"You should know" .... is there a sticky thread somewhere saying "10 things you should know before moving to Geneva?"  If not, I should be able to create one by the time I leave!


My gripe is more with the lack of information and assistance from the renting companies than with the nature of the market (low availability, high price). They may be right to demand certain things but offering me no information as to how to get them is not customer service. But then, I should remember that I'm not their customer, the landlord is.


 


Patrick O, Mar 7, 2011 @ 07:40
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Re: Learning about short term furnished apt rental
Post 11

 ‘Lack of information and assistance’ is the norm here.  The newcomer has to learn to live with it by continuing to ask questions, to apply for housing, jobs, info in general, to convince people that the search is serious.


It’s also a cultural thing.  People often hesitate to offer assistance in case it falls short of what they think you’re looking for, just as others don’t invite you to their home in case their hospitality won’t march up to what you’re used to.

The text you are quoting:

 ‘Lack of information and assistance’ is the norm here.  The newcomer has to learn to live with it by continuing to ask questions, to apply for housing, jobs, info in general, to convince people that the search is serious.


It’s also a cultural thing.  People often hesitate to offer assistance in case it falls short of what they think you’re looking for, just as others don’t invite you to their home in case their hospitality won’t march up to what you’re used to.


Ritchie, Mar 7, 2011 @ 13:15
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Post 12

Was this "contract" really with a regie or was it somebody subletting their own apartment? Usually regies are not very interested in short term contracts. And it does seem to be a lot of fuss for just 3 months that's why I'm wondering... If it was a regie, did they actually know that you wanted the place just for 3 months?


The insurance might have been liability insurance which is mandatory if you rent an apartment here (usually people take it together with their household insurance which is also mandatory when renting...). Producing the last 3 payslips as well as the paper from the Office de Poursuites is totally normal procedure for long term rental. It's also common that you have to pay your own nameplate for the door and the mailbox. But regies never organize wifi for you so that's why I think this was not a "regular" rental just a sublet or something. Actually, when I see the prices of furnished sublets (in the glocals classifieds for instance) I tend to think that these people just make money out of it, by charging waaaay too much...

The text you are quoting:

Was this "contract" really with a regie or was it somebody subletting their own apartment? Usually regies are not very interested in short term contracts. And it does seem to be a lot of fuss for just 3 months that's why I'm wondering... If it was a regie, did they actually know that you wanted the place just for 3 months?


The insurance might have been liability insurance which is mandatory if you rent an apartment here (usually people take it together with their household insurance which is also mandatory when renting...). Producing the last 3 payslips as well as the paper from the Office de Poursuites is totally normal procedure for long term rental. It's also common that you have to pay your own nameplate for the door and the mailbox. But regies never organize wifi for you so that's why I think this was not a "regular" rental just a sublet or something. Actually, when I see the prices of furnished sublets (in the glocals classifieds for instance) I tend to think that these people just make money out of it, by charging waaaay too much...


eva77, Mar 7, 2011 @ 15:54
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Re: Learning about short term furnished apt rental
Post 13

" ‘Lack of information and assistance’ is the norm here."


Yes, that's why glocals is so necessary!  Or englishforum.ch or the other expat one I forget.


"It’s also a cultural thing.  People often hesitate to offer assistance in case it falls short of what they think you’re looking for,"


That's a fascinating angle - an excess of modesty. In Ireland, people will do the opposite ; they will provide any kind of guess-answer in order to appear to be helpful, even if they have no idea what the right answer is :-)


P


 

The text you are quoting:

" ‘Lack of information and assistance’ is the norm here."


Yes, that's why glocals is so necessary!  Or englishforum.ch or the other expat one I forget.


"It’s also a cultural thing.  People often hesitate to offer assistance in case it falls short of what they think you’re looking for,"


That's a fascinating angle - an excess of modesty. In Ireland, people will do the opposite ; they will provide any kind of guess-answer in order to appear to be helpful, even if they have no idea what the right answer is :-)


P


 


Patrick O, Mar 7, 2011 @ 20:54
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Re: Learning about short term furnished apt rental
Post 14

"Was this "contract" really with a regie or was it somebody subletting their own apartment? Usually regies are not very interested in short term contracts. And it does seem to be a lot of fuss for just 3 months that's why I'm wondering... If it was a regie, did they actually know that you wanted the place just for 3 months?"


Yes,a regie, they knew it was three months. But you're right, their minimum term in fact is three months, so now that I have only two months left there's no point in looking again. And it did seem a lot of fuss which is why I rejected the contract.


Actually, I might have panicked a bit there at the demands; maybe I could have accepted them, used swisscaution.ch for the deposit (but as a foreigner would I be allowed to?) and taken my time to organise insurance, poursuite, etc AFTER arrival. But I thought they wanted all this documentation up front and so just dropped the project as seeming too much hassle in the short time I had.


 


"The insurance might have been liability insurance which is mandatory if you rent an apartment here "


I know that now. I still don't know how to get it, but some day soon I will call into an insurance office in rue de Rhone or somewhere and ask.


"Producing the last 3 payslips as well as the paper from the Office de Poursuites is totally normal procedure for long term rental."


Yes I too would expect that for long term rental - 1 year or more. I didn't expect it for three months.


It's still surprising that nobody has spotted that gap in the market for a full-service letting agency for periods of 1 to 3 months. Maybe in a seller's market they don't need to.


P.


 


 

The text you are quoting:

"Was this "contract" really with a regie or was it somebody subletting their own apartment? Usually regies are not very interested in short term contracts. And it does seem to be a lot of fuss for just 3 months that's why I'm wondering... If it was a regie, did they actually know that you wanted the place just for 3 months?"


Yes,a regie, they knew it was three months. But you're right, their minimum term in fact is three months, so now that I have only two months left there's no point in looking again. And it did seem a lot of fuss which is why I rejected the contract.


Actually, I might have panicked a bit there at the demands; maybe I could have accepted them, used swisscaution.ch for the deposit (but as a foreigner would I be allowed to?) and taken my time to organise insurance, poursuite, etc AFTER arrival. But I thought they wanted all this documentation up front and so just dropped the project as seeming too much hassle in the short time I had.


 


"The insurance might have been liability insurance which is mandatory if you rent an apartment here "


I know that now. I still don't know how to get it, but some day soon I will call into an insurance office in rue de Rhone or somewhere and ask.


"Producing the last 3 payslips as well as the paper from the Office de Poursuites is totally normal procedure for long term rental."


Yes I too would expect that for long term rental - 1 year or more. I didn't expect it for three months.


It's still surprising that nobody has spotted that gap in the market for a full-service letting agency for periods of 1 to 3 months. Maybe in a seller's market they don't need to.


P.


 


 


Patrick O, Mar 7, 2011 @ 21:01
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Re: Learning about short term furnished apt rental
Post 15

There are reasons why you need all of the things you were asked for.   As a landlord in more than one country I recently had a couple split up after the girl got pregnant, the house was "burgled" and the girl has now disappeared owing 3 months rent and it costs 3 months rent to clean and fix the mess she left behind, including needing 4 new doors.  Oh, and some radiators.   That's why you need so much paperwork, because as landlords we can ask for it to get decent tenants in Geneva.  


When advertising flats have the prospective tenants don't turn up, so you waste time and just have a fixed time for people to turn up.  There is supposed to be an accommodation shortage out there but I currently have 2 studios to rent and no serious offers.  

The text you are quoting:

There are reasons why you need all of the things you were asked for.   As a landlord in more than one country I recently had a couple split up after the girl got pregnant, the house was "burgled" and the girl has now disappeared owing 3 months rent and it costs 3 months rent to clean and fix the mess she left behind, including needing 4 new doors.  Oh, and some radiators.   That's why you need so much paperwork, because as landlords we can ask for it to get decent tenants in Geneva.  


When advertising flats have the prospective tenants don't turn up, so you waste time and just have a fixed time for people to turn up.  There is supposed to be an accommodation shortage out there but I currently have 2 studios to rent and no serious offers.  


Anna Naz, Mar 7, 2011 @ 21:51
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Re: Learning about short term furnished apt rental
Post 16

" ‘Lack of information and assistance’ is the norm here."

Yes, that's why glocals is so necessary!  Or englishforum.ch or the other expat one I forget.

"It’s also a cultural thing.  People often hesitate to offer assistance in case it falls short of what they think you’re looking for,"

That's a fascinating angle - an excess of modesty. In Ireland, people will do the opposite ; they will provide any kind of guess-answer in order to appear to be helpful, even if they have no idea what the right answer is :-)

P

 


Mar 7, 11 20:54

 


I fully agree that many nationalities will go an extra mile and more to welcome a newcomer, but the Swiss tend to be very reserved, which is why, for example, I would never dream of asking a neighbour for a cup of sugar or even help in changing a fuse (not  difficult but means climbing a ladder).


I'm on courteous terms with my neighbours, exchanging the time of day, whether they’ve had a good holiday, and so on, but in 20+ years I have been invited in by only three families and each time it was to discuss a circular letter we had all received from the Régie.


Compounding the reserve of the host community is the fact that Geneva has been a city of refuge for centuries.  There’s nothing new or special about a newcomer.  However, let’s be glad the forums on this site provide an opportunity to share guidelines and experiences about local foibles – which are not all that bad once you’ve come to terms with them.


R.

The text you are quoting:

 


I fully agree that many nationalities will go an extra mile and more to welcome a newcomer, but the Swiss tend to be very reserved, which is why, for example, I would never dream of asking a neighbour for a cup of sugar or even help in changing a fuse (not  difficult but means climbing a ladder).


I'm on courteous terms with my neighbours, exchanging the time of day, whether they’ve had a good holiday, and so on, but in 20+ years I have been invited in by only three families and each time it was to discuss a circular letter we had all received from the Régie.


Compounding the reserve of the host community is the fact that Geneva has been a city of refuge for centuries.  There’s nothing new or special about a newcomer.  However, let’s be glad the forums on this site provide an opportunity to share guidelines and experiences about local foibles – which are not all that bad once you’ve come to terms with them.


R.


Ritchie, Mar 7, 2011 @ 21:04
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Re: Learning about short term furnished apt rental
Post 17

Household and liability insurances: http://en.comparis.ch/hausrat-versicherung/default.aspx


I have mine at Helvetia and am happy with it.


Don't forget to read the small print really well!

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Household and liability insurances: http://en.comparis.ch/hausrat-versicherung/default.aspx


I have mine at Helvetia and am happy with it.


Don't forget to read the small print really well!


eva77, Mar 8, 2011 @ 17:41
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Post 18

I think the "Swiss are reserved" also may depend on where you are looking to rent in Geneva. My family rented an apartment in Sezenove a small village for 6 years. We got to know all the neighbours in the village, one of our Swiss neighbours came into our house everyday for 2 weeks to look after our cats whilst we were on holiday. We made great swiss friends there. When we first arrived we lived in the centre of Geneva in a big block of flats. I never got to know anyone there and normally only saw people in the lift!


So maybe if you venture a bit further out you will find that the local Swiss are very welcoming and helpful. It was also great for my french much better then going to school to have french lessonsLaughing

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I think the "Swiss are reserved" also may depend on where you are looking to rent in Geneva. My family rented an apartment in Sezenove a small village for 6 years. We got to know all the neighbours in the village, one of our Swiss neighbours came into our house everyday for 2 weeks to look after our cats whilst we were on holiday. We made great swiss friends there. When we first arrived we lived in the centre of Geneva in a big block of flats. I never got to know anyone there and normally only saw people in the lift!


So maybe if you venture a bit further out you will find that the local Swiss are very welcoming and helpful. It was also great for my french much better then going to school to have french lessonsLaughing


pazzer, Mar 8, 2011 @ 18:08
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Re: Learning about short term furnished apt rental
Post 19

I think the "Swiss are reserved" also may depend on where you are looking to rent in Geneva. My family rented an apartment in Sezenove a small village for 6 years. We got to know all the neighbours in the village, one of our Swiss neighbours came into our house everyday for 2 weeks to look after our cats whilst we were on holiday. We made great swiss friends there. When we first arrived we lived in the centre of Geneva in a big block of flats. I never got to know anyone there and normally only saw people in the lift!

So maybe if you venture a bit further out you will find that the local Swiss are very welcoming and helpful. It was also great for my french much better then going to school to have french lessonsLaughing


Mar 8, 11 18:08

I agree that living in a small village can be a very positive experience, but many of us have no other option but to live in a block of flats nearer our workplace and then, as you yourself say, the only contact between tenants is a ‘Bon jour, bon soir’ in the lift.


Being a family with young children is a great help in getting to know people, but what about those who are on their own whatever their age?


And what happens if your personal circumstances change because of separation, divorce, even demise?  The  ‘friendship’ can suddenly evaporate.  If proof be needed, ask anyone, expat or Swiss, who’s been in that situation what they have to say on the subject.


 


 


 

The text you are quoting:

I agree that living in a small village can be a very positive experience, but many of us have no other option but to live in a block of flats nearer our workplace and then, as you yourself say, the only contact between tenants is a ‘Bon jour, bon soir’ in the lift.


Being a family with young children is a great help in getting to know people, but what about those who are on their own whatever their age?


And what happens if your personal circumstances change because of separation, divorce, even demise?  The  ‘friendship’ can suddenly evaporate.  If proof be needed, ask anyone, expat or Swiss, who’s been in that situation what they have to say on the subject.


 


 


 


Ritchie, Mar 8, 2011 @ 19:30
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Post 20

Ritchie i totally agree and didn't mean any offence. My children were wonderful ice breakers as children do not have any pre conceptions and don't care what language another child is speaking they will just go and play with them. Anyway play is another form of language. We were also lucky enough to be able to live further outside Geneva. I still had to make my own efforts by trying to speak french even though i only knew Bonjour and Merci when i arrived and the locals really appreciated that i did continue trying and didn't give up. a couple of them mentioned to me. IT was the difference though that i did notice having lived in Geneva and on the outskirts the difference in the attitude of the locals.


I honestly hope i never have to go through the change of personal circumstances not just for me but my 3 boys aswell.

The text you are quoting:

Ritchie i totally agree and didn't mean any offence. My children were wonderful ice breakers as children do not have any pre conceptions and don't care what language another child is speaking they will just go and play with them. Anyway play is another form of language. We were also lucky enough to be able to live further outside Geneva. I still had to make my own efforts by trying to speak french even though i only knew Bonjour and Merci when i arrived and the locals really appreciated that i did continue trying and didn't give up. a couple of them mentioned to me. IT was the difference though that i did notice having lived in Geneva and on the outskirts the difference in the attitude of the locals.


I honestly hope i never have to go through the change of personal circumstances not just for me but my 3 boys aswell.


pazzer, Mar 8, 2011 @ 21:45
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