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More Regie Fun
Jul 31, 2011 @ 22:12

... on the other side of the border this time; so I'd be particularly interested in input from all of you frontaliers, native or not.


What's the legally required habitability standard for a rented apartment in France? Before signing my lease, I was presented with a rather detailed inventory of items in the apartment that were either broken or in less than pristine condition. Pressed for time, I signed off on the whole shebang, and replied to the régie---return receipt & within the 5-day limit---with my own wish list of major issues that need addressing. Well, it's been over a month, but response has there been none (surprise!).


Apart from puzzling over this rather cheeky approach (if they know it's broken, why not fix it?), I don't feel like spending any of my own money on broken/loose fixtures and tiles in the bathroom; a non flushing toilet; and a partly broken fridge.


What's the best way to approach this issue with the régie, and what are my legal options if they continue to stall?


Any input greatly appreciated.


Bests, Mike

The text you are quoting:

... on the other side of the border this time; so I'd be particularly interested in input from all of you frontaliers, native or not.


What's the legally required habitability standard for a rented apartment in France? Before signing my lease, I was presented with a rather detailed inventory of items in the apartment that were either broken or in less than pristine condition. Pressed for time, I signed off on the whole shebang, and replied to the régie---return receipt & within the 5-day limit---with my own wish list of major issues that need addressing. Well, it's been over a month, but response has there been none (surprise!).


Apart from puzzling over this rather cheeky approach (if they know it's broken, why not fix it?), I don't feel like spending any of my own money on broken/loose fixtures and tiles in the bathroom; a non flushing toilet; and a partly broken fridge.


What's the best way to approach this issue with the régie, and what are my legal options if they continue to stall?


Any input greatly appreciated.


Bests, Mike


rmikeJul 31, 2011 @ 22:12
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Re: More Regie Fun
Post 1
Jul 31, 2011 @ 23:06

... on the other side of the border this time; so I'd be particularly interested in input from all of you frontaliers, native or not.

What's the legally required habitability standard for a rented apartment in France? Before signing my lease, I was presented with a rather detailed inventory of items in the apartment that were either broken or in less than pristine condition. Pressed for time, I signed off on the whole shebang, and replied to the régie---return receipt & within the 5-day limit---with my own wish list of major issues that need addressing. Well, it's been over a month, but response has there been none (surprise!).

Apart from puzzling over this rather cheeky approach (if they know it's broken, why not fix it?), I don't feel like spending any of my own money on broken/loose fixtures and tiles in the bathroom; a non flushing toilet; and a partly broken fridge.

What's the best way to approach this issue with the régie, and what are my legal options if they continue to stall?

Any input greatly appreciated.

Bests, Mike


Jul 31, 11 22:12

You shouldnt pay any rent until it is all fixed! They are obliged by law to fix broken things in the flat.

The text you are quoting:

You shouldnt pay any rent until it is all fixed! They are obliged by law to fix broken things in the flat.


Andrew I, Jul 31, 2011 @ 23:06
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Re: More Regie Fun
Post 2
Aug 2, 2011 @ 15:31

You shouldnt pay any rent until it is all fixed! They are obliged by law to fix broken things in the flat.


Jul 31, 11 23:06

 Andrew, please make sure of what you're saying. I do not think your advice is very good.


 


1. Not paying rent puts you in the wrong. Such an action has to be the very last resort.


2. They are not obliged to fix everything.


 


What Mike is talking about is probably the "etat des lieux" (state of the premises). This is a done by both sides when you enter the apartment, and again when you leave, in order for both sides to agree on whether any degradation to the apartment is your fault or not.


 


IMHO, as long as the apartment does not present any health hazards, and follows some other minimal standards (e.g. minimal room size, daylight, etc) the owner is free to propose what he wants to the market, and you are free to refuse what you do not like.


For a description of minimal standards, I suggest searching for "logemnent salubre". One document is http://www.adil.org/29/Docadil/Fiches/f-logtdecent.PDF


I am not sure you have much recourse against the regie. Try calling them and negotiating. If you know who the owner is, perhaps you can get in contact with him/her.


 


--tor


 

The text you are quoting:

 Andrew, please make sure of what you're saying. I do not think your advice is very good.


 


1. Not paying rent puts you in the wrong. Such an action has to be the very last resort.


2. They are not obliged to fix everything.


 


What Mike is talking about is probably the "etat des lieux" (state of the premises). This is a done by both sides when you enter the apartment, and again when you leave, in order for both sides to agree on whether any degradation to the apartment is your fault or not.


 


IMHO, as long as the apartment does not present any health hazards, and follows some other minimal standards (e.g. minimal room size, daylight, etc) the owner is free to propose what he wants to the market, and you are free to refuse what you do not like.


For a description of minimal standards, I suggest searching for "logemnent salubre". One document is http://www.adil.org/29/Docadil/Fiches/f-logtdecent.PDF


I am not sure you have much recourse against the regie. Try calling them and negotiating. If you know who the owner is, perhaps you can get in contact with him/her.


 


--tor


 


tawb, Aug 2, 2011 @ 15:31
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Re: More Regie Fun
Post 3
Aug 3, 2011 @ 23:01

Yep. That's pretty much in accordance with the information I found here:


http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/working-in-france/letting-property/landlord-repairing-obligations/


Written from the landlord's perspective (in English, no less!), but still valuable information. Looks like as long as the roof doesn't cave in, the ball is in my court. However, I'll probably be able to sell the disintegrating bathroom floor as a health hazard, and a non-working toilet is, well, a non-working toilet. Bummer about the fridge, though. Care to shoot me that Kendo outfit for my next régie tête-á-tête?


Bests, Mike

The text you are quoting:

Yep. That's pretty much in accordance with the information I found here:


http://www.french-property.com/guides/france/working-in-france/letting-property/landlord-repairing-obligations/


Written from the landlord's perspective (in English, no less!), but still valuable information. Looks like as long as the roof doesn't cave in, the ball is in my court. However, I'll probably be able to sell the disintegrating bathroom floor as a health hazard, and a non-working toilet is, well, a non-working toilet. Bummer about the fridge, though. Care to shoot me that Kendo outfit for my next régie tête-á-tête?


Bests, Mike


rmike, Aug 3, 2011 @ 23:01
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Re: More Regie Fun
Post 4
Aug 4, 2011 @ 14:22

Mike,


To look on the bright side, it does not look like they are trying to screw you completely, since if they wanted, they could have used your ignorance of the procedure to not document the problems of the apartment in the etat-des-lieux. In that case you would have been liable to pay for ALL the repair work yourself.


Note that the etat-des-lieux is not 100% finished until the heating season starts. So remember to check carefully all the radiators etc, this autumn and notify the regie of any problems.


Note also that the French rental law is quite advantagous to the renter (you). Therefore you are probably not forced to stay forever in this apartment, if it is too bad.


--tor

The text you are quoting:

Mike,


To look on the bright side, it does not look like they are trying to screw you completely, since if they wanted, they could have used your ignorance of the procedure to not document the problems of the apartment in the etat-des-lieux. In that case you would have been liable to pay for ALL the repair work yourself.


Note that the etat-des-lieux is not 100% finished until the heating season starts. So remember to check carefully all the radiators etc, this autumn and notify the regie of any problems.


Note also that the French rental law is quite advantagous to the renter (you). Therefore you are probably not forced to stay forever in this apartment, if it is too bad.


--tor


tawb, Aug 4, 2011 @ 14:22
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