As far as I know, you're have to present three suitable candidates who would be prepared to take you flat at the same conditions than yours to be allowed to cancel your contract before its term. The regie is not obliged to accept them, but that relieves you from your obligations.
Free, Feb 19, 2009 @ 14:31

I agree with Free that after you present 2 or 3 candidates, you should be released from your obligations!! Check your contract...

BTW Naef are a bunch of .... well they are not nice.

I remember a couple years back starting my new job here in gva and drinking champers because a colleague had just taken Naef to a tribunal ( via ASLOCA) because her rent was ludicrously higher than the previous tenant. She got a reduction of 300 CHF per month and obviously wanted to share that fact with us. I made a mental note not to rent from Naef. :ermm:

But low and behold a friend left for the US in 2007 and I wanted her lush appartment in Champel.  Malheureusement Naef was the regie. We had a similar salary, permanent contracts, work permits etc, but they didn't pick me, sob :( 

But back to you. What they are doing sucks. You probably cannot complain because there is noone to complain to in Switzerland.  Customer service doesn't exist. But I seriously hope you get this sorted out.
babylicious, Feb 19, 2009 @ 14:56

excellent! that's exactly what i provided 3 very eligible glocal candidates, and so i'm now off the hook! that's what i wanted to hear. 

I can't believe the regi's don't do anything but just post tel#'s of people like me for anyone to see and then drop in during viewing hours, check out your house and your things....  Call me paranoid, I grew up in NYC, and there have been an increase of burglaries, so who's to say what scams they have going just to see what's 'available' out there, knowing houses are vacant during daytime :angry: nuff said.
YouMeCo, Feb 19, 2009 @ 15:10

i just feel very nervous about all these people knowing where i live.... mind you i took my valuables out of the house and into the bank safe, and the rest i've got nothing in the house of value so not really worried, but still.... the last 2 big guys taking at look at my place and seeing how far from the ground up my window is... :unsure: one good thing is I live on such a major road, that no one could get to my place without being noticed, plus as ugly as they may be, the shutters are a good security feature :) but not good for my plants wishing sunlight during the day
YouMeCo, Feb 19, 2009 @ 15:20

Hmmm.  I agree that almost by definition regies are arseholes, but I've just concluded a two-year relationship with Naef that went pretty well.  Aside the from the standard treatment as a moron due to being a filthy foreigner, they were really quite good.  It may that you are dealing with a particularly cretinous individual.  I chose one woman and stuck to her like glue and have managed to build up a relationship with her. 

From my own very recent experience (I left my flat last week), you are obliged to find 1 suitable candidate only.  If the regie deems that person suitable, it will inform you by letter.  If you haven't had this letter, ring Naef up and demand it.  It's critical, as until they've agreed that you're free from your legal obligation, my understanding is that you are not. 

The same thing happened to me about the viewing business.  Despite my having given 2 months notice that I was leaving, they stuck my number on a website two days before the etat de lieu!  I showed it to two people and referred the rest back to Naef - no way was I letting people  traipse round my place after I'd painted and cleaned it for the inspection.  I think that if you've made an honest effort to let a reasonable number of people look at it, you can't be expected to do more.  Why not call ASLOCA to find out what your obligation is?

My etat de lieu went fine and I'm now waiting from the piece of paper from Naef that will allow me to get access to the huge bail I had to pay.  It's been almost a week now - if I don't get it soon I may be revising my opinion of Naef...
Bella98, Feb 19, 2009 @ 15:32

PS  I think you can give Naef a set of keys so they can show the apartment - but I agree with your security concerns, I didn't like it either. Have you tried explaining that dodgy people are showing up to the Naef person?  If he doesn't give you any joy, can you ask to speak to the boss?
Bella98, Feb 19, 2009 @ 15:37

Hi Yumi,

I really symapathise with your concerns about security. Art. 16 of the General conditions applying to rental agreements in Geneva states that it if you want to terminate the lease early all you have to do is find at least one solvent tenant who is prepared to take over the lease and give one month's notice. If the proposed tenant is not acceptable to the Régie they have to inform you of the reasons. If they have not done this you have no further obligations.



David



david_h, Feb 19, 2009 @ 17:50

Thanks everyone, this is really good tips and advice.  And I'm sure many of us here go through similar issues when moving out, as well as other issues to contend with when moving in. 

SiteAdmin's posted some scams that go on for potential renters (so everyone read up on the pinned up warnings!!) but even in the sleepy town of Geneva we must be vigil and not become victims of other being bullied by the Regi. And do they ever call you back? no~~! but I will definitely call Mr. Balthazar and get a written notice of reason for the owner not taking any of my 3 proposed candidate, and that I have nothing further to do.  I did give them more than 2 months notice! Maybe I can call everyone who came & viewed the flat (yes i got them to write down their names & contact #'s) to call the regie every day to find out if they got the flat or not!  (hahaha.... :hehe:)
YouMeCo, Feb 19, 2009 @ 18:32

022 839 3939 (naef)

voila
YouMeCo, Feb 19, 2009 @ 18:38

Burn them.
James Martin, Feb 19, 2009 @ 19:34

[quote]Hi Yumi,

I really symapathise with your concerns about security. Art. 16 of the General conditions applying to rental agreements in Geneva states that it if you want to terminate the lease early all you have to do is find at least one solvent tenant who is prepared to take over the lease and give one month's notice. If the proposed tenant is not acceptable to the Régie they have to inform you of the reasons. If they have not done this you have no further obligations.



David



[/quote]



Well if they decide they suddenly don't like you it will be no surprise to find that there is no person in the world "eligible" to rent your apartment. And then they make the apartment inspection unpassable.



I am not sure how the law works but when I got my apartment (from a GLOCAL member) she went and said, oh by the way he has already moved in. That way she was sure I got it and not one of the regie's friends, and that was the end of them trying to rent it. The regie was angry but gave up. I'm sure I would have been deemed in-eligible (having a permis L at the time) but the difficulty of removing someone already living there seemed to be not worth the trouble.



A regie story: A neighbor who had such endless troubles with a geneva regie finally gave up, deciding to loose his deposit (which he was sure he was never getting back without a lawyer), changed the locks, sealed kilos of cheese and shellfish into the walls, and moved back to Mexico without even contacting them anymore. It being winter, they couldnt forcibly remove him for months. Took them forever to get legal right to break the door down and recover the unit, and then they had to tear the place apart to remove the dead body smell. Probably not recommended, but he did annoy the hell out of them...
floydmarks, Feb 19, 2009 @ 22:35

[quote][quote]Hi Yumi,

I really symapathise with your concerns about security. Art. 16 of the General conditions applying to rental agreements in Geneva states that it if you want to terminate the lease early all you have to do is find at least one solvent tenant who is prepared to take over the lease and give one month's notice. If the proposed tenant is not acceptable to the Régie they have to inform you of the reasons. If they have not done this you have no further obligations.



David



[/quote]



Well if they decide they suddenly don't like you it will be no surprise to find that there is no person in the world "eligible" to rent your apartment. And then they make the apartment inspection unpassable.



I am not sure how the law works but when I got my apartment (from a GLOCAL member) she went and said, oh by the way he has already moved in. That way she was sure I got it and not one of the regie's friends, and that was the end of them trying to rent it. The regie was angry but gave up. I'm sure I would have been deemed in-eligible (having a permis L at the time) but the difficulty of removing someone already living there seemed to be not worth the trouble.



A regie story: A neighbor who had such endless troubles with a geneva regie finally gave up, deciding to loose his deposit (which he was sure he was never getting back without a lawyer), changed the locks, sealed kilos of cheese and shellfish into the walls, and moved back to Mexico without even contacting them anymore. It being winter, they couldnt forcibly remove him for months. Took them forever to get legal right to break the door down and recover the unit, and then they had to tear the place apart to remove the dead body smell. Probably not recommended, but he did annoy the hell out of them...[/quote]
Ritchie, Feb 19, 2009 @ 23:17

[quote][quote]Hi Yumi,

I really symapathise with your concerns about security. Art. 16 of the General conditions applying to rental agreements in Geneva states that it if you want to terminate the lease early all you have to do is find at least one solvent tenant who is prepared to take over the lease and give one month's notice. If the proposed tenant is not acceptable to the Régie they have to inform you of the reasons. If they have not done this you have no further obligations.



David



[/quote]



Well if they decide they suddenly don't like you it will be no surprise to find that there is no person in the world "eligible" to rent your apartment. And then they make the apartment inspection unpassable.



I am not sure how the law works but when I got my apartment (from a GLOCAL member) she went and said, oh by the way he has already moved in. That way she was sure I got it and not one of the regie's friends, and that was the end of them trying to rent it. The regie was angry but gave up. I'm sure I would have been deemed in-eligible (having a permis L at the time) but the difficulty of removing someone already living there seemed to be not worth the trouble.



A regie story: A neighbor who had such endless troubles with a geneva regie finally gave up, deciding to loose his deposit (which he was sure he was never getting back without a lawyer), changed the locks, sealed kilos of cheese and shellfish into the walls, and moved back to Mexico without even contacting them anymore. It being winter, they couldnt forcibly remove him for months. Took them forever to get legal right to break the door down and recover the unit, and then they had to tear the place apart to remove the dead body smell. Probably not recommended, but he did annoy the hell out of them...[/quote]



Oops, sorry, pressed the wrong key -- as usual!



Anyway, I just wanted to add that I think your régie story is hilarious. There have been occasions when I wish I could have dreamt up something similar.

Ritchie, Feb 19, 2009 @ 23:20

My etat de lieu went fine and I'm now waiting from the piece of paper from Naef that will allow me to get access to the huge bail I had to pay. It's been almost a week now - if I don't get it soon I may berevising my opinion of Naef...[/quote]



Just so you know Bella, naef can keep your deposit for a year legally!



Youmeco - I had ASLOCA with me for my etat de lieu and it was great. My agency was a pain in the backside and he tried to get me to pay loads of money for "damage" that ASLOCA contested every time. If they do say that you have damaged the place and you don't agree, don't sign the piece of paper. That will mean that they will keep your money for a year but after that they have to release it with no charge - i spent a lot of time with ASLOCA when I moved out of my appartment!!
Treesa, Feb 20, 2009 @ 00:13

The piece of paper that should not be signed if you don't agree to the specified changes and/or damages is called "convention de sortie."  If you have any doubts at all, don't sign without the advice of ASLOCA or a lawyer...

FloydMarks--the cheese and shellfish story is a classic..I laugh every time I read it...:P
Translator, Feb 20, 2009 @ 03:54

floydmarks,

the option your friend took would clearly have been the easiest way to just give my flat to another glocal member/friend, but then i'm sure I wouldn't have gotten my guarantee back :( i'd be surprised how that worked out for your friend. 

as for the fish/cheese story... that's just horrible! i have a flat in the states, and have had people staying in it, so i understand that using a flat as if it were your own is the only way to treat it.  I passed the initial inspection with flying colors (the one before the final inspection on day of departure). now i just hope they return the guarantee asap so i can close my bank accounts here in swissyland.  i wish there was a way to legally keep my account here even if I head back to the states, but then again you don't earn anything on these accounts so I guess there's no point keeping an account open for the sake of having a 'swiss account' :) but that's for another thread discussion.
YouMeCo, Feb 20, 2009 @ 11:18

Treesa, I presume they can only keep my deposit if they contend that there is damage to the apartment.  They've agreed that there is not and signed a paper to that effect - so I would say there is no legal grounds for retaining the deposit.  Or is Switzerland just completely bonkers and have these people just stolen my money?
Bella98, Feb 20, 2009 @ 11:58

Bella - they can keep it even if the paper is signed to say that there is no damage. It took 3 months for my agency to release mine but a friend of mine had to keep pestering her agency and it took 7 months! It is legal as I double checked this with ASLOCA and was very shocked!
Treesa, Feb 20, 2009 @ 12:11

I was told it was for both as well as to cover cleaning costs if they deem the appartment has been cleaned properly
Treesa, Feb 20, 2009 @ 12:14

Wow.  Why do Swiss people put up with this corrupt crap?  We can't vote so have no choice about it, but why don't they get off their collective arse and do something about it?  Makes me almost glad to be leaving the country. 
Bella98, Feb 20, 2009 @ 12:42

perhaps it's a Swiss conspiracy for the foreigners... :ermm:

you pay for Asloca (swiss attorneys) and they are supposed to help you against the Regi (swiss organization); sure it's good to have them with you when doing your inspection, but when it comes down to getting your money back, they say 'that's the way the system goes'. 

If I'm lucky enough to have my next tenants want to buy my basic furnitures, I sure hope they're not going to make me clear out the flat just so they can inspect the place. Someone told me that you need to vacate the place in the 'same condition' as when you moved in. which means if it came unfurnished, then I have to move everything out of the flat. I hope they have some sense in allowing me to keep the dining table, book case, bed and small appliances in tact and not pull them out in the hallway or in the cave just so they can inspect the place.  I will scre~am if they insist on moving it.
YouMeCo, Feb 20, 2009 @ 13:52

 

Youme,

when I moved out of my place my regie was nice enough to give me some 'tips' on the exit inspection and the condition in which I had to return the appartment. This are some tips I can share with you:

Even if they will have to repaint the doors and walls, they will ask you to repaint white every stain left by picture frames, the bed etc, so they might not ask you to move all the furniture out, but make sure the wall behind is white, they will move the bed to check that.

Cover and fill every whole that was not there when you did your inspection.

Same goes for the wodden floor if you have it. IF it's more scratched then it was when you came in, call your house insurance and check with them, most of the time you are covered for accidents and damages, but do it BEFORE the inspection.

Clean the windows, that's one thing that is very visible and they get picky about :(

IF you are going to leave furniture (or curtains hangers, mirrors etc etc) in the appartment, either have a statement signed by the next tenant that he or she is ok with it, or even better ask them to be present at the moment of the exit inspection. Without their explicit consent the regie will not allow you to leave anything in the apartment.

It sucks, but basically is to prevent cases when the next tenat plays 'dumb', doesn't want the furniture anymore and will ask the regie to pay for the removal. In my case the guy that took my apartment was there when I had the inspection and confirmed that he was going to keep some furniture and was ok with me leaving it in teh apartment.

Hope this helps a bit :)

V
Hoiling, Feb 20, 2009 @ 15:03

Val, Thanks for this tip!!!  great great stuff!!  If in the end the next person is someone who wants my things then i will definitely insist he/she be present at the time of my exit.  otherwise, worst case scenario i already have a friend in the wings waiting to take my things if need be so i'm lucky either way.

yes, about these walls, you definitely risk having the wall stained due to the soot from the otuside, but i was very aware of this last time i lived in Tokyo and all wallpaper ended up with stains from my platic wardrobe and the paintings up on the wall, and for that they charged me an entire salary's worth for basically redoing everything, including the carpets (which leave markings from your furniture that you place on the ground).  it was so ridiculous that normal wear and tear was not accepted for not paying hundres, nearly thousands to redo everything.. nothing was broken, everything was cleaned out, and yet after months of arguing over international calls and HR Tokyo getting involved, i was pressured into paying what in the end was cut down to about a third of the orginal asking price. be very weary if you ever rent in Tokyo. That is a scam in terms of their clean up policies. so yes this time i made sure no furniture was up against the newly painted walls before i moved in. I also made sure all my windows were clean, the kitchen hood and everything but the top of the kitchen cabinet (which I can't reach :( ) was sparkling clean.  mind you i don't wear shoes in the house and I have no furniture that moves that would cause the floors to scratch.  if anything, I get no real sunlight in the house so i should them to pay ME money for my plants dying from lack of sunlight in the house! or for the sleepless nights for the noise of the outside cuz they won't double glaze the windows. 

the one good thing i look at with my flat is that it makes me pine to getting back to my bright, airy, terraced flat with a partial view of the city :)
YouMeCo, Feb 20, 2009 @ 15:46

Nope, all you need is 1 (one) suitable candidate and you're freed of your obligations.



Article 264 of the Swiss law (Code des Obligations) - the book can be picked up at pretty much any library for about 15.-, if I remember correctly.



Agencies don't believe they have to abide the law and everyone is too scared of them to tell them when they're acting illegally.



Hope this helps!
ikeaboy, Feb 22, 2009 @ 23:47

I did not know, thanks for the info, Ikeaboy. I had been told that you need present three potential tenants just to make sure the regie cannot deem the three of them unsuitable.



Art. 264 Restitution anticipée de la chose
Free, Feb 23, 2009 @ 00:55