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Rent Gouging.

Hi all,


I looked through the threads to try to find something about this and I couldn't find anything.


I'm currently living in a sublet in Meyrin, paying 1800/mo (shared with my boyfriend) for 1 bedroom in a two-bedroom apartment with a huge living room and decent kitchen, shower, washing machine, etc. The bedroom is big enough for the two of us, but it's really far from Unige, where we are both students. The other bedroom is being rented out by a single guy, so that's his space in the apartment. He pays 1500/mo for his room.


Here's the catch: the person we are renting from lives in the living room. So, for 1800/mo, we only have access to our bedroom, the kitchen, and washing facilities.


This would be fine and all--if we hadn't seen her rent contract from the owners of the apartment saying the total rent is 2200/mo. We needed a copy of her rent to send to the OCP for our residence permits, so of course we saw it.


This can't possibly be legal. She's definitely not paying a cent of rent even though she's employed. She also has a friend who has an address here but only stays here occasionally, sleep-over style. I don't know what her deal is, whether she's employed or paying rent or whatever. None of that seems legal either.


I feel terrible because she's obviously making a profit off of us, and we're just students, we're not employed, and neither of us are Swiss/EU, even though we've been honest about our rent and paid every month on time with no gripes or problems. I've seen offers for the exact same set up of two bedrooms, one big and one small, minus the living room being occupied, in buildings in the exact same part of Meyrin, for 1200/mo. The fact that she treats us like her replacement children for her son, who went back to live in the States, and not like equal adults, is neither here nor there.


So, I am wondering if anyone has any advice on how to deal with it. She's lawyered up as well; her rent contract was dealt with by a local lawyer and she said the owners of the apartment know she's subletting, but I doubt they know for how much. I also doubt her employer knows how much she's charging us; they wouldn't need to pay her at all if they knew she was pocketing 1100/mo. In case it matters, she's not Swiss, she has a passport and citizenship from a Southeast Asian country I won't disclose unless you PM me.


Any advice on how to deal with this, preferably through legal means, would be helpful. I read on some threads about how subletting is illegal unless it's worked out with the regie, so I'm not expecting us to have much by way of rights, especially since she has a lawyer. Our only option right now is to move, but for non-Swiss/EU without a guarantor, I don't need to reiterate how hard it's going to be to find a new place. I think I just don't want this to happen to someone else.


Thanks for reading this, and for any advice offered.

The text you are quoting:

Hi all,


I looked through the threads to try to find something about this and I couldn't find anything.


I'm currently living in a sublet in Meyrin, paying 1800/mo (shared with my boyfriend) for 1 bedroom in a two-bedroom apartment with a huge living room and decent kitchen, shower, washing machine, etc. The bedroom is big enough for the two of us, but it's really far from Unige, where we are both students. The other bedroom is being rented out by a single guy, so that's his space in the apartment. He pays 1500/mo for his room.


Here's the catch: the person we are renting from lives in the living room. So, for 1800/mo, we only have access to our bedroom, the kitchen, and washing facilities.


This would be fine and all--if we hadn't seen her rent contract from the owners of the apartment saying the total rent is 2200/mo. We needed a copy of her rent to send to the OCP for our residence permits, so of course we saw it.


This can't possibly be legal. She's definitely not paying a cent of rent even though she's employed. She also has a friend who has an address here but only stays here occasionally, sleep-over style. I don't know what her deal is, whether she's employed or paying rent or whatever. None of that seems legal either.


I feel terrible because she's obviously making a profit off of us, and we're just students, we're not employed, and neither of us are Swiss/EU, even though we've been honest about our rent and paid every month on time with no gripes or problems. I've seen offers for the exact same set up of two bedrooms, one big and one small, minus the living room being occupied, in buildings in the exact same part of Meyrin, for 1200/mo. The fact that she treats us like her replacement children for her son, who went back to live in the States, and not like equal adults, is neither here nor there.


So, I am wondering if anyone has any advice on how to deal with it. She's lawyered up as well; her rent contract was dealt with by a local lawyer and she said the owners of the apartment know she's subletting, but I doubt they know for how much. I also doubt her employer knows how much she's charging us; they wouldn't need to pay her at all if they knew she was pocketing 1100/mo. In case it matters, she's not Swiss, she has a passport and citizenship from a Southeast Asian country I won't disclose unless you PM me.


Any advice on how to deal with this, preferably through legal means, would be helpful. I read on some threads about how subletting is illegal unless it's worked out with the regie, so I'm not expecting us to have much by way of rights, especially since she has a lawyer. Our only option right now is to move, but for non-Swiss/EU without a guarantor, I don't need to reiterate how hard it's going to be to find a new place. I think I just don't want this to happen to someone else.


Thanks for reading this, and for any advice offered.


Marissa MJan 7, 2012 @ 19:08
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Re: Rent Gouging.
Post 1

I guess it's also good to point out that I have no personal problems with any of the people living in or out of the apartment. Everyone has been very nice to me and the apartment is clean. I am not looking for financial gain here, but rather, understanding if what's happening to us is legal and if not, if it can be corrected. Thanks.

The text you are quoting:

I guess it's also good to point out that I have no personal problems with any of the people living in or out of the apartment. Everyone has been very nice to me and the apartment is clean. I am not looking for financial gain here, but rather, understanding if what's happening to us is legal and if not, if it can be corrected. Thanks.


Marissa M, Jan 7, 2012 @ 19:47
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Post 2

Thanks; I don't think, as unemployed students, we can take out insurance. Thanks for the link, we will look into it.

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Thanks; I don't think, as unemployed students, we can take out insurance. Thanks for the link, we will look into it.


Marissa M, Jan 7, 2012 @ 19:50
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Post 3

Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. We are subletting from her. We found the room because we were booted from the place we were living in before (a villa that needed repairs, everyone had to leave) and we picked the first place that was within our budget from loans and parental help that we could sublet.

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Sorry, I'm not sure what you mean. We are subletting from her. We found the room because we were booted from the place we were living in before (a villa that needed repairs, everyone had to leave) and we picked the first place that was within our budget from loans and parental help that we could sublet.


Marissa M, Jan 7, 2012 @ 19:52
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Re: Rent Gouging.
Post 4

The best thing for you to do would be to join ASLOCA, the local tenants' association and consult with one of their lawyers.


It doesn't necessarily matter that she has a lawyer. Her employment status has nothing to do with this either. Her citizenship status doesn't matter either if she legally resides here in Switzerland.  


Here are some questions for you:


a) Do you have a written contract with her?


b) How do you know she has authorization from the owners to rent to you? 


c) Do the owners know how many people are living in the apartment and that the apartment's address is being used by someone else?


d) Have you received written receipts for your monthly rental payments and any security deposit? This is extremely important. 


It is likely that you need to move. I understand that it is a difficult situation and too many people have been and will continue to be victims of outrageous rental practices. Contact ASLOCA asap...They have lawyers who speak English.


http://www.asloca.ch/asloca-gen%C3%A8ve

The text you are quoting:

The best thing for you to do would be to join ASLOCA, the local tenants' association and consult with one of their lawyers.


It doesn't necessarily matter that she has a lawyer. Her employment status has nothing to do with this either. Her citizenship status doesn't matter either if she legally resides here in Switzerland.  


Here are some questions for you:


a) Do you have a written contract with her?


b) How do you know she has authorization from the owners to rent to you? 


c) Do the owners know how many people are living in the apartment and that the apartment's address is being used by someone else?


d) Have you received written receipts for your monthly rental payments and any security deposit? This is extremely important. 


It is likely that you need to move. I understand that it is a difficult situation and too many people have been and will continue to be victims of outrageous rental practices. Contact ASLOCA asap...They have lawyers who speak English.


http://www.asloca.ch/asloca-gen%C3%A8ve


Translator, Jan 7, 2012 @ 19:38
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Re: Rent Gouging.
Post 5

Thanks for your reply.


a.) Yes, we do. Both of our names are on the contract.


b.) She told us verbally that both her and the renters, as well as the lawyer, are aware of subletters. She would get deported otherwise, for the criminal offense.


c.) I don't think so, although my guess is that they are aware of the presence of me/my boyfriend and the other guy. I highly doubt they know about this friend that also uses the address. I've never talked to them or anything, and she is VERY protective about the info she tells us. She really didn't like that we needed copies of her passport photo page and her contract for our residence permits.


d.) She gives us recepits every month; I believe there was a security deposit, my boyfriend paid it so I'm not sure how it was handled.


We're already looking for apartments so hopefully something comes up where we won't get completely gutted. We will look at ASLOCA to see if we can talk to someone, although we're not keen on paying MORE fees for a lawyer if there's nothing legally wrong with our situation.

The text you are quoting:

Thanks for your reply.


a.) Yes, we do. Both of our names are on the contract.


b.) She told us verbally that both her and the renters, as well as the lawyer, are aware of subletters. She would get deported otherwise, for the criminal offense.


c.) I don't think so, although my guess is that they are aware of the presence of me/my boyfriend and the other guy. I highly doubt they know about this friend that also uses the address. I've never talked to them or anything, and she is VERY protective about the info she tells us. She really didn't like that we needed copies of her passport photo page and her contract for our residence permits.


d.) She gives us recepits every month; I believe there was a security deposit, my boyfriend paid it so I'm not sure how it was handled.


We're already looking for apartments so hopefully something comes up where we won't get completely gutted. We will look at ASLOCA to see if we can talk to someone, although we're not keen on paying MORE fees for a lawyer if there's nothing legally wrong with our situation.


Marissa M, Jan 7, 2012 @ 20:11
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Re: Rent Gouging.
Post 6

What is your actual goal? It is unlikely that you will be able to recover any money unless she is somehow in breach of contract or there are some elements of the contract that are illegal.


You really to need to be able to find out whether the apartment owners know how many people she is renting to and what she is charging. You can try writing the owners if you have their names and addresses. This will more than likely lead to her kicking you out.


And it's not only her passport photo page and her contract you need to know about as much as her own residence permit. Does she legally reside here? [This is more a matter for the owners of the apartment though as she holds the underlying contract with them.]


Does your contract stipulate how many other people are living in the place? 


Good luck finding somewhere else.


 


 

The text you are quoting:

What is your actual goal? It is unlikely that you will be able to recover any money unless she is somehow in breach of contract or there are some elements of the contract that are illegal.


You really to need to be able to find out whether the apartment owners know how many people she is renting to and what she is charging. You can try writing the owners if you have their names and addresses. This will more than likely lead to her kicking you out.


And it's not only her passport photo page and her contract you need to know about as much as her own residence permit. Does she legally reside here? [This is more a matter for the owners of the apartment though as she holds the underlying contract with them.]


Does your contract stipulate how many other people are living in the place? 


Good luck finding somewhere else.


 


 


Translator, Jan 7, 2012 @ 21:40
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Re: Rent Gouging.
Post 7

My goal is to make the authorities aware of the situation if there is in fact something illegal going on.


I don't know anything about the owners, unfortunately, so I guess that's where the trail ends.


She is employed as a housekeeper in Vaud to an American couple. She just got her residence permit renewed, so she is here legally. For the purposes of our residence permit, the OCP only asked for her passport page.


Our contract is just between her and us, so there's nothing about the other people.


Thanks for all your help.

The text you are quoting:

My goal is to make the authorities aware of the situation if there is in fact something illegal going on.


I don't know anything about the owners, unfortunately, so I guess that's where the trail ends.


She is employed as a housekeeper in Vaud to an American couple. She just got her residence permit renewed, so she is here legally. For the purposes of our residence permit, the OCP only asked for her passport page.


Our contract is just between her and us, so there's nothing about the other people.


Thanks for all your help.


Marissa M, Jan 7, 2012 @ 22:01
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