I heard of the security bar: my neighbor is a cop who highly recommends it. 

Never heard of the company tho. I feel you: kind of scary to let these guys into your home, not knowing anything about them.

You can also find it much cheaper. Please ask around! Some people have even fake bars with a purely deterrent effect. But in case of burglery your insurance would perhaps refuse to pay...

But this topic would be very suitable for our GENEVA IS NOT SAFE Forum and also interesting my GENEVA RISK AWARENESS GROUP...

Listen Harry. We know about your group. If we want to we will join. No need to go on and on and on about it

Hey Nir,

Could you ask your cop neighbor which company (if any) he recommends? I want to get this taken care of asap and my regie cleared me to do it. I just want to make sure I'm not giving the info to the wrong person/people.

Maybe ask him if he knows about Privalarm. I found their entry in the commerce registry etc etc, so they at least seem to exist and have since at least mid 2011.

Best,

Andy

I have it on my door since almost 20 years, and then it was still an exception to install this. I had to ask for permission (!) from my Régie, and I think yours could help you in this. You should ask them first, also for their own locksmith...

And I must tell you frankly that most people (especially if several persons stay in this appartment) just don't really lock this bar. And in case of burglery, even then your insurance could find an excuse not to pay (at least the ordinary lock should be shut accordingly, 2 key-turns).

I appreciate the invite man, but I've lived in a lot of big cities. I don't really have trouble in Geneva seeing that I am pretty good at watching my back ;-)

Andy: will do and revert. 

Harry: Maria is right. Pls stop pushing your group all the time, it's becoming a distraction at best, and spam at worst. You made your point about it, enough. 

Nir

Andy: I would check with the Régie. I'm sure they have someone to suggest as a reputable security bar installer.

OMG, does this mean that Régies can actually be GOOD for something?

If you have a balcony door (or terrasse door) I would suggest that you secure that one first. All the break ins at friends houses I know about have been via the garden door, not the front one. 

Andy,

If you wish to find out more about this company (or any other Swiss company), you may have a look at www.moneyhouse.ch.
In this particular case, "your" company is only 6 months old, which means no real own experience, no real customer feedback ...
Whenever I need some professional services, I'm asking a free quotation from one to three different companies, but never from recently established companies.

My neighboor had a similar door bar installed a year ago, for chf 1500.- approx. (she asked for several quotations, and average price was 1200.-/1500.-).

A relevant question would be "How much does cost a door bar in a DIY shop ?" If "your" company's offer is 690.- all included, and if you consider that it may take 2-3 hours to install it, that means that the bar itself would cost chf 300.- max. which is probably not top quality ...

If you have a look at this TV show (2009), average price was chf 1300.- (they also give some recommendations);
http://www.rts.ch/emissions/abe/logement/1367380-cambriolages-protegez-vous-mais-a-quel-prix.html

To summarize: "Cheap is always too expensive" ...

P.S. an electrician hourly wage is chf 120.- approx (2011)

Well, I do have a balcony door. But I have an isolated blacony on the fifth floor. If someone manages to get onto that, then they deserve whatever they can get their hands on ;-)

Nir any news yet?

Yo Andy, 

By chance had dinner with the guy today....

He didn't have a specific company to recommend, but said that:

1. There's a ton of kinds of bars out there, for a huge range of prices. Go for a bar of a known brand (google the brand before buying to get an idea). A good bar usually costs 800-1000, before instalation. 

2. There's also a ton of companies out there, eager to cash in on the security panic. Go for one that's been around for a while. 

3. Consult your regie about companies. Most regies work with lock-smiths on a regular base, and could direct you to their contact. 

4. He highly recommends the bar, and says that burglars often will switch to another apt if they only see you have the bar. So if you get the bar, the chance that your neighbor will have a visit from Mr. Burglar increases...(-;

Good luck mate, 

Nir

Hey Nir,

Thanks a lot for the extensive response. 

The brand of the lock Privalarm offers is ABUS... So it's well known, and it's a new developed lock that's not very expensive, so their special offer adds up mathematically: 260 fr material costs and then 430 fr of margin and material costs.

Sounds less sketchy than initially.

I have written them an email now asking a few questions, like lead time as well as how long the actual work takes.

The kind of response I get will definitely give me a feel for how legit they are.

Ill email my regie as well if they have someone to recommend, and keep you all posted either way.

Best,

Andy

Durrr make that margin and labor cost.

I have a colleague who has a Fichet bar: www.fichet-pointfort.ch. She had an attempted break-in but the burglars didn't manage to get through it. The only downside is that it apparently self-destructs or something as soon as someone tries to break into it, and it becomes impossible to open (even with the key). She had to wait several hours before the locksmith finally managed to open her door. The locksmith did say that was the best one to have though, and the police said professional burglars won't even attempt to get past the bar because they know it's pointless.

I should also mention that she warned me about other brands. Here is a quote from her email:

"Do watch out. The locksmith said that many of these bars can be opened if the lock is picked and that people spend a fortune on them for nothing. The Fichet ones are the only ones that actually shut down if you try to pick them. Mine is one of the few apartments in our building that hasn't been burgled, although the burglars did try to get in (and failed)."

What a great topic guys! Really helpful comments. Recently, they tried to break into our apartment. The police told us that in all likelihood, the beggars who sit outside our front door keep a tab on who goes in and out (they know who we are because we check our mailbox in their full view) and collaborate with the burglars.

Our regie told us that our household insurance would cover the damage to our door (broken lock, crow-bar marks), but the household insurance said it was the regie's responsibility. The rule is: if they get in, your household insurance will cover everything including damage to the door. If they don't get in, it's the regie who covers it. If you have any issues with that, refer your regie to article 259a of the Code Civil Suisse.

We're getting a Fichet lock now, and informing our insurance to get the relevant discount for adding this security measure.

Keep safe!

Now please just tell us: Did the police let "the beggars" sit outside your front door even after this?

Your answer would be very helpful...

Yes, the beggars are still outside our door. They alternate but they're not there every day anymore. I chase them away regularly and take photos of them with my phone, which makes them very uncomfortable. Whenever I see a policeman in the neighbourhood, I tell him we had an attempted break-in and that there's someone begging in front of our door. They always go and have a look, I think it's helping.

I thank you very much for answering so quickly and politely (compared to the other thread). Unfortunately this is not the right tactics, as I teach in my GENEVA RISK AWARENESS GROUP.

I can hand you per WORD-file (TXT not possible) my Defensive Rumanian (and now also Serbian) Glossary in order to desescalade the situation, because there are ways to devictimize you. I would also be very much interested in knowing if in your house/neighbourhood there are visible so-called "Zigeunerzinken" (google after this word in order to see the graphic signs!). Because like this, those "beggars" mark the houses/appartments to be burglared. Check your house after them and inform me!

Please use the private messge box in order to avoid kibitzers (trolls) to disturb our fruitful conversation. Many thanks for understanding.

Aiight ladies and gents,

After the neighbor of a work colleague had recently used Privalarm, I decided to get it taken care of too, especially since Easter holidays are starting.

I called on Tuesday, and the owner Olivier got me a date set up for this morning. 

The guy (clearly not Olivier, an employee) came early actually by about five minutes. With the bar and a gigantic tub of tools. I watched the guy work, and although I'm not a trained handyman, there was nothing shady about the job done. He took only about 50 mintues - and the bar itself came in the original packaging (ABUS bar 2600). 

The job is visually perfect and he also gave me a quick introduction of how to work the bar, what's important, and also a quick explanation of the benefits.

He said that basically, my door, like most doors won't stop professional burglars who are out for something specific, but the bar and the effort it would take to gain entry to a door secured by it will pretty much deter any "opportunist" burglary since these guys are reliant on cro-barring a door and being in and out in 5 minutes.

All up, the job is visually well done and from everything I can tell not lacking quality. 

One thing that was a little weird was that they preferred cash payment. I did get a properly written bill and all that though. And since I had to go to the bank to get the cash for him, I got to see the car as well. It was a new company smart with the company name "Privalarm" written all across it. 

In general, I was very sceptical at first, but retrospectively I'll give it a thumbs up. 

They might be doing interest things with their books, I can't judge that, but I can say that they did a good job for my side.

Enjoy your Easter everyone!

Best,

Andy

Andy,

Thanks for following through on your thread and wrapping it up with a nice review.

Being a review, though, you should consider putting it in the glocals Guides section so that the next person who wants a bar will have one good review to look up. :)

Happy Easter!

And I hope your bar never gets the chance to show how well it does its job.

True. Lets hope this bar was just a waste of money :)

Take a guard dog. Here's ours.

@Maria:

I emailed my regie originally because I felt by lock was insufficient to protect the apartment. Actually had I ever needed to gain entry drunk at 5 am without a key, I could have likely managed. If you get what I am saying.

I emailed them then saying that I'd like to get that kind of bar and whether that was OK. They said sure, as long as I paid for it and it was done properly that was cool.

No surprise there - you pay for it, it's OK.

They had no one to recommend, and honestly, Privalarm did a great job. See my post above.

Hello all,
What I offer you experience and it's a bar motturra is an Italian product and the bar has a rose window with security and anti serrurre boring. It is all metal you really feel in security. And the keys can not be reproduced without code. Right now they are promoting has 629 francs instead of 1300. This is the Geneva Locksmith 0223013350.

I searched back this thread as I am thinking about getting the famous securuty bar installed, mainly because I am concerned about leaving my apartment with no supervision (I live alone) during my business travelling.

I live on the 5th floor of a building secured with an entry code. I have a 4 multipoints lock, which should be already good, however in the past I remained locked out (and felt very stupid for forgetting the key inside) therfore a "serrurier" made a hole underneath the lock to open the door, and even if he closed it afterwards the point where he did it is still well visible, which concerns me a bit.Shall I go for the big bar? and has anyone any recommendations about the locksmith company and lock brand touse? (my Regie was not able to give me any advice apart telling me that I can do it at my expenses, of course). 

You can try the security shop Jean Musina in Paquis (corner of Rue de Bale and Rue Jean-Antoine-Gautier). They should be able to help you compare different kinds of security bars and other options. They're very friendly and knowledgeable, although I don't think they speak English.

As to whether to add the bar: that's really a personal choice. Personally I'd say that a 4-point lock is already pretty decent. If the problem is that hole at the bottom of the door, perhaps you can close or hide that somehow, e.g. with a metal strip over it (attached with glue or screws). 

Go for the bar. It's a deterrant and it gives you peace of mind. Only when you've been broken into and your private space is violated, do you recognize what that's worth but believe me: it's money well spent.

Hey Federica,

As I said, the Privalarm guy did a great job. He was in and out in about an hour and the bar is fine. It's made by ABUS so you know you're getting a decent piece of hardware.

The bar functions as a deterrant primarily, as most robberies in Geneva aren't professional hit jobs, but shady people doing snatch & grabs - they want to be in and out within minutes and draw as little attention to themselves as possible. Trying to get through a bar secured door doesn't fulfill those criteria all too well.

Another benefit for you might be that you can't lock yourself out, as you have to turn the bar into place from the outside ;-)

This guy has worked for us before:

http://www.abcforgeron.ch/ABChtml/serrures-de-securite/barre-transversale-abus.html

he is Swiss and very trustworthy, but he speaks French and German only.

he offers the bars from CHF 499.-- (installation included)

Claudia

Ooh he looks very scary, he has that 'don't mess with me' look going on!!

thanks to all for your advice, I will look into all the suggested options. I definitely want to have it installed, it would make me feel safer when I am away.