As long as America continues to brutalise and radicalise non-white people all over the world this kind of propaganda only serves to reduce life to a star wars movie with comic book heroes and villains. No-one, not O.B.L. nor anyone else, could have dreamed of attempting the disgusting murder of the innocent victims of 9/11 unless there had been enough critical mass in terms of anti-American feeling abroad to facilitate the crime. It would be wonderful to think it's all over now but sadly it is not.  There will probably be more attacks against the USA and European countries. The best defense strategy would be to deplete terrorist organisations of members by a re-thinking of U.S. foreign policy. 

On a separate point one can never spend too much time reflecting on the loss suffered by families of 9/11 victims. Today is as good a day as any to remember the empty place at the dinner table that Obama talks about. The focus should be on doing everything possible to avoid the murder of more innocents and to keep American families safe. 

I saw a presentation of Robert Fisk in Holland. It is always interesting to listen to him.

You may "hate the dirty, filthy politics of US just like the rest of [your] people do." Perhaps you should spend just as much time on corrupt politics and practices of Karzi , the Taliban, the tribal chieftains, the British, the Germans and all the other countries in Afghanistan as well.  

Whatever you have "heard" about Osama being "created by Americans to fight USSR" perhaps you might try reading next time.  The history of Osama bin Laden is much more complicated that what you may have heard.

I am not cheering but in this case, it is the chickens coming home to roost. This is part of a continual spiral of violence.  Al Quaida killed not only Americans but many other peoples all over the world as well.  

It's amazing what can be accomplished when the Sony PS3 network is down for an extended period of time.

Two excellent articles from the Guardian...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2011/may/03/bin-laden-death-us-patriot-reflex

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-10-myths-cia-arsenal?intcmp=239

I'm 100% with Ariel on this one: glad Osama is dead. Of course it won't lead to world peace (and no one thinks that), but it's the right ending (although a bit late) for a guy who brought so much death to so many innocent people.

The problem with the first half of your statement is that it ignores the reality of modern foreign policy-making. Nearly every one of the major powers goes along with US foreign policy and brutalizing and radicalizing of non-white peoples. This includes many of the leaders of those people being terrorized.

To focus only on US policy is to ignore what is really going on, namely global foreign policies working in the interest of all the world's ruling classes.  Just look at how the UK turned over to Libya the central terrorists involved in the Lockerbie incident.

Many of us have a lot to say against our nation's foreign policy.  But we are not so naive as to think that the United States rules the world alone.  

As Translator said above, we Americans don't believe that the USA rules the world alone, and we certainly are vocal on our views against certain foreign policies. 

But to celebrate, however briefly, that the man who master minded the event which tore apart our people and nation is not out of line or out of place. He was buried with respect at sea, and not beheaded publicly, which I'm sure is what some wanted. 

I have no idea who 'your people' are, but I have not a single doubt that within five minutes of searching, I can find plenty of 'dirty, filthy politics' from your own nation. 

Osama killed 3,000 people.... then the US government turns around and kills over a million Iraquis and God knows how many hundreths of thousanths of Afghans along with having over 5 thousand US soldiers die, and thousands of others come back home as heroes but with mental issues and new handicaps (but hey they'll receive 250 dollars from the VA for the rest of their lives so is worth it, right?), by the way God knows how many brits, germans soldiers have died as well... all because of a man (Osama).....

To add insult to injury thanks to the cowboy who's anything but a respectable politician, America starts losing credibility worldwide, Americaphobia peaks an all time high and a new class of terrorism has its birth all over the world and because of the tendency the US gov. (elite) has to stick its nose into just about anything now the world is divided into this them and us......

and when I say the U.S Gov. sticks its nose everywhere is not because they care, but because they can profit from it...... war is a great business and America's ELITE is all about money....

IRAK = OIL

AFGHANISTAN = OPIUM

COLOMBIA = COCAINE

I hope some of you realize how much money these type of industries move (cocaine and opium) both banned by law (banned by law for you and me of course) but still very profitable and of course the top dogs up there love their money right?!

by the way when I say elite I mean the ELITE..... (not the normal everyday American joe who works as a construction worker in Memphis TN, or Norma the house wife from long island NY who loves baking apple pies type of American, I mean the top dogs that control and run the USA.)

Now Osama is dead and he is instantly buried at sea less than 8 hours after his supposed death!!! funny with Saddam hussein the media made a bitch of him and he was caught alive and shown to cameras worlwide displayed proudly as a big catch, but osama.... pfff a mistery, killed and then dumped at sea!!!! sounds very fishy and not because he was buried in the sea!

meanwhile back in America.... the economy is crumbling and the nation that shaped the 20th century turns slowly but surely into China's bitch, Gas prices keep hitting new record highs and driving starts to become a luxury for many, unemployment is a reality now for many in what used to be the land of plenty, the rich keep getting richer, the poor keep getting poorer as America's middle class vanish and not because the middle class is getting richer, but because many are joining the ranks of new poor.... but hey they caught Osama right?.... very convenient and of course the timing could not be better!!!! and of course it's thanks to Obama, the most overrated president in US history!

Sorry if I offend any one, is not my intention but that's how I see it.

I agree with you.... it's all the same crap but with different nationalities!

The average American is just a normal person like normal people anywhere else.... they have no say in what the US government does or doesn't do.... (just like people anywhere else in the world when it comes to their governments)

Politics run countries and a selected few run the politics within a country...... 

Let's settle down people.

No one is going to determine or change world politics by posting on this thread so either discuss things civily and realize that different people have different views or just log off and go for a walk.

Thanks

Oded

So you take the ignorance of one punk soldier in a foreign land, and assume all 300 million of us Americans are like him?

Does the phrase 'generalization' mean anything?

And now I am curious. What country do you hail from, comrade?

Ahem, I don't just google, I've worked in US  foreign policy.  I certainly know a lot more about it than you do.  I also have friends who have worked in Kabul with US AID.  I don't support US policy there, but I can assure you, I know a lot more about it, and bin Laden than you do. I have also read a great deal about the history of Afghanistan, as well.

I'm sorry for those in your country and who have suffered centuries of colonial domination. But that does not make the US the only villan here.

In addition, you shouldn't assume what Americans -- including me --are and aren't disgusted about. You apparently don't know anything about it and think all Americans think the same.  As far as I am concerned, the US should never have entered Afghanistan or Iraq.  And that is the way that many of our citizens feel.

Hello everyone, the Common Sense book state that subjects as Religion and Politics should be avoided in any discution. I regret to see here, on Glocals, an excellent website and social phenomena,that  the Common Sense is avoided. 

Well, certainly that was my first thought, but then I figured you'd yell at me for being a presumptious American if I was to exercise such common sense and not ask you directly.

As Oded said, chill out. Attacking Americans who work in foreign policy and international law (Translator and myself) is probably not the best use of your incredibly overblown rage. 

I'm glad the bastard is dead, just as a Jew, I was damned glad as a child to read about Eichmann being tried and hung. (But that was probably the US's fault too, right?)

Having said that, I'm out. The last thing I want is to be dragged into what is clearly a hijacked thread by someone intent on exploding anger and generalizations and stereotypes towards, ironically, people who otherwise would be quite sympathetic to your arguments. 

Good day, everyone.

Yes, take the view of one punk soldier because that's the easiest one to swallow.  Not that Karzai and his family have stolen hundreds of millions of dollars of the country's wealth. Not that the Taliban want to kill teachers who want to teach girls...Yep, the US is the source of all the world's ills...  It's easier that way...

Though many people express positive views of 'common sense' here are a few cynical views of the 'phenomenem'.

Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen. Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955), (attributed)

We seldom attribute common sense except to those who agree with us. La Rochefoucauld

The philosophy of one century is the common sense of the next.Henry Ward Beecher

I think one will find more non-religious non-political fora in glocals than religious and political.  Profiles also allow one to express an interest in politics.  Politics is all pervasive and recent political events are of enormous interest to many in this city housing UN institutions i.e. political ones as well as multinational companies who have their fair share of interest in politics. And so it seems to me to be not out of place to discuss religious and political topics so long as one is civil and, when one can, to cite references and facts.

We all know more than the person on the other side of the argument. And somewhere, between the focus of the argument and its resolution, we get into the super-egoistical battle of who-knows-what and who-knows-more.

Blaming each other for how their home-country's government operates does not display your intelligence.

That's what led to all these wars in the first place!

Anyways, don't stop if you don't want to, but please; Pause to think!

People are different, in the same &*$%^ way! They are told different things in the same &^&^% way! Or the same stuff in different (*&^&*^ way. What's common is (*&^(&^. Damn, I need another beer...is it morning yet?

Since I'm such a big fan of DemocracyNow I will post this interview of Jeremy Scahill. He makes some nice points that highlight especially Xutka's questions and comments...

Anyways, just after seeing the parade of partiers outside the Whitehouse pretending this was a sporting event made me sick... hearing Jeremy put things firmly back into perspective was quite a relief to hear.

The link to the interview is here:

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/2/jeremy_scahill_on_killing_of_bin

I'm also a fan of Amy and Juan.  I would suggest as well one read the articles of Chris Hedges and others at Monday's Common Dreams: http://www.commondreams.org/view/2011/05/02-2

Hedges' article is a well reasoned informed logical piece by a man who speaks Arabic and has been in the Middle East.  It is therefore that he will be ignored and people will keep to their passions and cheer on the killing of an unarmed man who has never been proven to have planned anything and whose star was fading.

Funny, I guess you haven't studied the history of your own country... And I guess it's easy to laugh about these things living here in Geneva... Good luck with that...

And by the way, just so you fully understand, the term "colonial domination" implies many different aspects, most particularly plundering of resources, and not necessarily only the physical presence of an imperialist power.

All due respect to the poster but you never figured that posting your opinion on here would not result to 100% in a lot of people who have issues with the US, and also a lot of people who's life was never touched by this kind of thing coming out and posting some kind of rather mundane excuse for why this is all the US's fault?

Responses like the one from Mr. manics1984 who let off what I would consider a rant about the US brutalizing people all over the place and whatever are pretty symptomatic for what I would have expected before I opened this thread.

While I would love to hear an account of the atrocities the US committed to Ireland and to his life, and why Ireland is more dangerous place because of NATO or god knows what other organization the US involved in, the truth is, it's not relevant.

The defense strategies of all NATO countries is entirely based on the US's massive power to back whatever action is taken, yet a lot of people like to sit in the protection of that while not having to carry the burden of everything else that comes with it. 

The conversation is going to inevitably go in circles as these people are forever going to argue that if the US wasn't what they diplomatically disguise as "Imperialist Bigots" the world would have no problems and we would all be safe.

I have no intention of returning to this thread or being involved in the conversation - but before I get dismissed as an ignorant American, keep in mind that I am European and that I was a soldier.

Corrections:

1) Bin Laden was not related to the Saudi Royal family. Bin Laden's family owned the major construction company in Saudi Arabia.

[See this article from the Guardian: http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-10-myths-cia-arsenal?intcmp=239 !

2) The majority of Americans, including those with pre-existing conditions, will now receive health care coverage under the recently passed law:

http://www.healthcare.gov/foryou/betterbenefitsbetterhealth/index.html

Breshna, Translator, 

Enough, you guys took over the thread with your personal-attacks back and forth.

Both of you are now officially banned from this thread for the next 48 hours. If you post on this thread before then, your glocals account will be suspended. 

There's so much of this persona-attack stuff lately that we got to be a bit more heavy handed than usual. 

Nir

And this vast generalization of all Americans makes you more worldly and intellectual than them how?

I'm glad  to hear you are not laughing about your history. Perhaps you did not fully understand what I wrote, which is exactly why I attempted to clarify it for you. Guess that was a lost cause.  Good luck with your mother-in-law, though..

Please don't take this as a personal rebuke but let's, as Oded suggested keep it civil.  I am as guilty sometimes of being less than civil so I am not speaking from a position of moral/ethical authority.  I truly believe there is more that unites us than divides us so let us all try to see each others point of view, agree when we do and agree to disagree when we don't but do it in good faith and peace and understanding.  What's so funny about that?

Marksist: she can't answer you, she's banned from this thread together with Translator...(-;

Yalla guys, breath out and let's move on. Go buy a voucher for fusion Asian-Europan food on BuyClub and relax.

Yalla!

Lets join ranks with the Divorce thread group, go out, and get smashed together!

https://www.pcip.gov/Eligibility.html

https://www.pcip.gov/StatePlans.html

Commercial trap?

It is up to xutka B to prove her claim of a relationship but your source i.e. the Guardian doesn't even address that 'myth'.

As Said K Aburish in 'The Rise, Corruption and Coming Fall of The House of Saud (Bloomsbury Publishing, 2005 Edition - original publication 1994) with the comment from The Guardian on the back cover of "Those who want to know about the country will devour it for the sheer quantity of tasty titbits if offers about the closed kingdom of the royal princes', says, "The Olayans, Mahfouzes, bin Ladens....built highways, housing, for workers and whole towns.  Now they provide services which keep the country going...  ...and they use their surplus funds to trade worldwide. They have substantial shareholdings in Chase Manhattan Bank, Citicorp, Hyatt Hotels, Whittaker, Mobil Oil...  Naturally, nobody is ever big enough to forget what matters and, in order to continue, they all need the blessing if not the active support of the House of Saud". (p. 98).

Certainly bin Laden fell out of favour with the Saudi King and when he proposed to raise a force against Saddam Hussein in order to oust the latter from Kuwait he was turned down and instead the Saudis allowed a large number of American troops to build bases in Saudi Arabia, home to two of the most holy Islamic sites, which inflamed bin Laden's fury against the King.

One must also remember that 14 of the 19 9/11 hijackers came from establishment Saudi families (p xii of above cited reference).

Further, "The number of male members of the ruling family, another state secret,is approaching 10,000. ...(they don't bother to count the females)".(p.xiii)  Aburish goes on to recount the internal rivalries within the House of Saud for succession, ministries etc. as well as the financing of Islamic extremist groups responsible for the killing of American soldiers (p.xiv).

The US has a long standing relationship with the House of Saud (established by the British under guidance of 'Lawrence of Arabia), a feudal country, 90% Sunni from which only a few benefit from the oil in the Shia majority eastern oilfields.  And we know that to the east of Saudi Arabia where a majority Shia population is repressed and currently being killed with the help of Saudi forces, all the while the American 5th fleet sits idly by.

I think xutka b is therefore justified in asking why the US government (not the mass of the population!) kiss the arse of the Saudi royal family.

''any semiological system is a system of values; now the myth-consumer takes the signification for a system of facts: myth is read as a factual system, whereas it is but a semiological system'' (Barthes, 1972)

The point I would like to make is that by celebrating the death of Bin Laden, people are revealing themselves as having internalised MASSIVE amounts of propaganda. Bin Laden should have been charged and tried in a court of law, within the jursidication of the place where the crime was committed. Instead he was transformed from a human being into a symbol of irrational evil and then the human being was shot in order to 'kill' the symbol so as to make the world a rational place again. This simple analysis proves his killing equated to mass wishful thinking.

So I respectfully disagree with Nir and Ariel on this point. I'm sad he's dead because a glorious opportunity has been missed to show the world how civilized justice is supposed to function. This was a golden chance for America to actually begin working through (understanding) it's national trauma instead of forever defering the moment to when it actually begins to ask questions, in some kind of citizen based forum on a national level, about why so many people around the world hate America and the good people who live there. O.B.L., if found guilty in a court of law, should have spent the rest of his life in prison looking at the American flag gaily flapping and snapping in the breeze. Now that would have been justice (and nicely symbolic, in a non-crazy way!)

and thanks to Ariel for getting us all thinking about this.

Wow, this thread is much better then the Jerry Springer show.

God bless America... oh wait god does not exist ;-)

Wait did I just hear a remake of that old Limp Bizkit song called "trolling" ?

have to love them

It's been really interesting following this thread; thank you all for you input.  With all my respect, Ariel, you have all the right in the world to start a forum about Osama Bin Laden and the chain of reactions where emotions run high that followed were to be expected..  After all, is not the life and adventures of Micky Mouse it is is being discussed here.  Personally, I could not care less about his death.  However, it this news brough any emotional relief to the families of his numerous victims all over the word, then......thank you Obama.

If any of you remember reading Orwell's 1984 the authoity there had a public enemy (sorry cannot remember his name as it must be 20m years since I read it) and this enemy was used to unite public opinion in support of the government, who were protecting the people against this evil.

The hero Winston thinks (that was his crime) that nobody has ever seen this 'enemy' and does he exist?

But Winston was not typical and that was why he was arrested and brainwashed.

So why admit to killing Obama?  Wouldn't it have been better to eliminate him without announcing it, but have the public believe he was still alive and that the authorities were containing hiS EVEIL POLICIES?

Governments have to have public enemies.  Before it was communism and long before communism fell, I went to a bookreading by Anthony Wedgwood Benn  where he prophesised that Islam would be the next public enemy.

IT HAD BEEN PLANNED 20 YEARS AGO!!

1. Osama* 

2. Because as easy and as much fun as it would be to claim that America is true life 1984, it isnt. Closer to that would be Saudi Arabia or China. 

Point 1 - thanks.  it was not a typo - 's' and 'b' are a long way apart - just put it down to the beer.

Point 2 i am not suggesting US is getting like 1984 but everywhere.  I am assuming you have read the book or know about it but when I first read it in the 60's I could not believe a world like that could exist but over the last 40 years we are gradually getting closer.

Winston had only one place where he could hide - an alcove in his appartment due to an architectural mistake.  Now with CCTV, mobile phone and credit card tracking how far away are from this?

Even poor old Berlusconi gets accused of having a liaison with any underage girl based on trcking the origin of mobile phone calls she made two years ago.  I find that unnreving.

I am sure arxist will have some comment

I wouldn't call that philandering schmuck 'poor', but I agree with the rest. 

I guess the only way to go off the radar is to give up the credit cards, phone, social networks... and even then, what are you going to do? Besides pull an Osama and live in a big fortress?

And I'm being half joking/half serious. I've using a prepaid mobile, and haven't used credit cards in almost two years (mostly because my bank charges an arm and a leg for overseas debit purchases).

I think the regular season is not yet quite over and it will be a tight race as all three are vying for first place with a goup of seasoned teams chasing close behind like Canada with its RCMP and CSIS which spies on innocent Canadians includng a highly popular Martime singer who I don't think ever had a poliitical thought in her head (with perhaps the exception of that dangerous ideology of feminism): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rita_MacNeil), holds people under indefinite detention without trial and then at some seemingly arbitrary time decides to conduct secret trials.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charkaoui_v._Canada_(Citizenship_and_Immigration)  We gave false information to the US so that they could pick up an innocent man and ship him off to Syria to be tortured.  Subsequently the Canadian government issued a public apology and paid millions in compensation, though he is still not allowed entry into the US: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar

As for Britain who is so kind to provide me one of their passports due to my birth their as well as generations of my forebears they have what is esimated to be the greatest number of CCTV cameras per capita in the world despite a low success rate in preventing or prosecuting crime.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CCTV  "A joint Home Office and police report recently found 80% of CCTV pictures are of such poor quality they cannot be used for detecting crime, and a police surveillance expert estimated last year that just 3% of crimes were solved by CCTV". http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/mar/02/westminster-cctv-system-privacy  In a further effort to boost their standings in the 1984 league season Britain is going all out despite valiant efforts to kill Bazilian tube commuters (for which they got a yellow card) http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-13299606

The end of the season seems to promise a tight and exciting race as the US continues to ignore FISA and maintains the Patriot act.  However not to be too somber in this thread about our favorite teams perhaps we should pause a bit for distraction and rejoice in the beautiful voice of Blackwater's (or is that Xe?) new ethics chief singing the words of a song about nature.

In arxist's absence I would like to offer a few comments to the gentlemen who hangs out with his Red Lordship Tony Benn :-).

I haven't read 1984 (saw the movie though).  I haven't read many good comments on the book as it doesn't really tell us anything new or provide insight into (at that time) present day society and government control, even granted it was a work of fiction by a WWII British propogandist who came from an elitist British background (but then so does Benn).  His elitism is reflected in my view when he offers 'solutions' to begging and tramping in Down and Out in Paris and London, without considering the causes of poverty.  Down and Out is one of my favorites as is Homage to Catalonia, Wigan Pier and Burmese Days since they give in my opinion a much truer and accurate picture and analysis of the places and lives in those places.

As for Burlesqueoni choice of underage females, on a purely physical basis I can't criticise him though his ex-wife might beg to differ.  His failing is his megalomania which leads to these indiscretions and his lack of concern (apparently) that they will be revealed or nakedly exposed.

I hope the arxist formely known as Prinzmetal does not suffer a heart attack when he sees I have spoken on his behalf.

Thank you Obama?  WHY????

Rather than thank you Obama, I would say THANK YOU AMERICAN SOLDIERS who deploy 16 months or more, in very stressful environments, risking their lives, far away from loved ones, sleeping in the desert, eating dehidrated food every day of the year for 16 months and many times missing important events of their lives like child brith or their children graduation because they are out there in afghanistan or iraq risking their butts while obama sleeps comfortably in the white house and wakes up to a delicious buffet every morning before his daily briefing and his daily pampering!

American soldiers are the real heroes here.... Obama? NO WAY

Thank you Obama simply because he happens to be the one that announced Bin Laden's death to the world and everybody loves the good messenger.

 enjoy your day

Yes, thank you Obama. Because without his leadership and his behind the scenes work, the hunt for Osama would have continued on, as unfruitfully as under Bush. I did thank the service people in the original post, as did just about every other American I've been in contact with. 

If I read your post correctly, Andy, it seems that its not ok to be well fed before making the decisions that guide those same soldiers? If I was a soldier, I'd definitely want my leader to be well fed and rested before making ANY decision in which my life was at  stake. And does this mean that no one should thank you for the work you do in your office, because you had a full night of sleep and a breakfast before coming into work?

I worked with many U.S soldiers for over ten years and they were very dedicated, and they gave everything up when they deployed, left wives, husbands, children, many even missed their child's birth or first year anniversary becase they were out there in the desert.

Those are the real heroes to me.... I personally think OBama represents nothing, in four years it will probably be some body else doing Obama's work and taking credit!

To be honest, to them it seemd as if their Commander in Chief was just a distant figure.....  the ones doing the work were enlisted and officials of the US army.... the US sergeants worked extremely hard, logistics and so.

I remember the U.S president once went to see the American tropps (I remember it was Bush at the time) and he just landed in a chopper, said hello and thank you for your hard work, got a few pictures taken shaking the hands of a few high ranking soldiers and then flew away with his security stuff.... doubt Obama would be any different.

I do not know, he just seems so overrated to me.

Either way Bin Laden is dead, unfortunately is not the end.... It's like attacking a monster with a thousand heads, you cut one out and another one comes after you.

My vomit or someone elses?

For the 200 assasinated in Kenia & Tanzania in US embassies in 1998

For the 17 killed on USS COLE bombing in 2000

For the ca. 3000 people killed in 9/11 including 340 brave firefighters and 60 Policemen

For the 200 killed in Bali in 2002

For the 41 people killed in Casablanca May, 2003

For the 56 assasinated in London 2005

..... For all the people killed or injured by the non-sense of terrorism. For all the families broken by cruelty and violence of this killer. For all his victims, all the inocents killed or affected, directly or indirectly, by this SOAB:

Fuck Osama!!!!

This is freedom of speech and freedom of thinking. I only said that this specimen killed thousand of inocent. Broke thousands of families. Ruined the life of thousands of people.

Neither Obama nor Bush are my heroes. One has to be really perturbed to consider a terrorist as Ben Laden a hero. A killer of inocent people as an example in life.

Iraqbodycount.org estimate 109.000 civilians killed in iraq since 2003. So many killed by terrorist bombs, executions, suicide bombs, etc. In any case, nothing to do with millions. I do not defend US. Only try to be serious about this. Check their web site if need more info.

Do not mix concepts. In case you think that US are terrorist, there is NO justification for crashing 2 planes against WTC, to blow up a bus in London or to blast a restaurant in Casablanca.

And yes, I do agree that US is in Iraq because of the oil. And because they think that in order to protect US people, they try to keep the war activity away from US soil.

My apologies Arxist.  Typing was not my forte last night.  Agree with your comments on Orwell.  In fact 1984 is not typical and in fact plagarises (or a least takes the idea from) a Russian novel - 'We' - written I think in the 1920's

Sorry, but this quote is a FAKE!

http://www.mastersoftrivia.com/blog/2011/05/in-the-wake-of-osamas-death-a-fake-mlk-quote-is-born/

There are seven continents:  North and South America are separate continents.

http://www.worldatlas.com/aatlas/infopage/contnent.htm

In post no. 28, you asserted that bin Laden was related to the Saudi Royal family.

No, Osama bin Laden was not related to the Saudi Royal family.  The government of Saudi Arabia issued a warrant for his arrest on May 16, 1993. 

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/binladen/who/family.html

"The relationship between the bin Ladens and the Saudi royal family is quite exceptional in that it not simply one of business ties: it is also a relationship of trust, of friendship and of shared secrets. This is particularly the case with regard to the group's present-day leaders and the Soudairi clan.

Thanks to the renovation of Mecca, Sheik Mohammed bin Laden did not become merely Kin Abdul Aziz' official contractor, but his friend and confidant as well. This friendship has been handed down to their children. The bin Laden sons went to the same schools as the numerous offspring of King Abdul Aziz and they all followed the same path."

As for people who can only quote one source, even in this age of Google:

Cave ab homine unius libri -

In the United States of America, there are lots of washed-up, self-appointed male gurus who like to criticize Obama, for example, Glenn Beck, Rush Limbaugh and Donald Trump, among others.  

[Barack rips into Trump at 8:50  And draws attention to Trump's "credentials and breadth of experience."]

Others, from the "left," say he's not "black" enough, not radical enough, over-rated, yada, yada, yada...

Well, good luck with that...and enjoy President Palin if she gets elected... because it won't be the White House by then, it'll be the White Hut.

Finally, for my friends BustanA and 2626, let me just say this...

Nihil est--In vita priore ego imperator romanus fui 

I have requested that the site administrators settle this issue. 

More on the fake Martin Luther King quote currently circulating:

http://www.newyorker.com/online/blogs/books/2011/05/misquotes-martin-luther-king-bin-laden-twitter.html

http://www.theroot.com/buzz/fake-mlk-quote-goes-viral

I particulary like this quote from the comments section on that piece in the New Yorker: 

"The problem with believing quotes from the internet is that the internet is full of lies and inaccuracies" -Abraham Lincoln (1864)

That almost made me choke on my coffee... Now I have to go back and read the comments section...

Don't worry I've been called worse as you can imagine, even by myself!  Actually I like arxist.  It has a certain ring of Arch about it as in arch enemy or arch villain or archbishop.  Just might find my long form birth certificate and apply for a name change (a change in my nom de guerre! or nom de plume as the word is mightier than the sword).

Typing is not my forte ever since passing 40. However typecasting is

But cereally, I'm glad we find some common ground on Orwell a great writer and a man of his times and circumstances.

Thanks for the reference to 'We'. Must look it up.

Cheers

Marksistentialist aka TradeMark aka Mark(eting) ad infinitum ad nauseum

This one really made me laugh!!!!

I'm starting to piece it all together now, thanks to this thread and my exceptional common sense.

I knew it, Lincoln saw it coming. Nostradamus told him. And Lincoln told George Orwell, who invented the internet.

Osama, O'Rama, O'Lama & Obama are therefore, the same big bro, in different online avataars and their different personifications arising due to Orwellian typographical errors.

Either ways, one in hand is worth nineteen-eighty-two-plus-two with Bush. Everyone goes home happy.

As for me, I now have all the ingredients to spice up my:
Cosa Nostra-damus CAPTCHA Code. I'll publish it with full credits to the next person who conducts a personal guerilla attack against my fellow Glocals members.

Orationem pulchram non habens, scribo ista linea in lingua Latina. 
- Some wise guy called Anonymous, probably 'Greak'.

Bon weekend. Operation Neptune Beer.

You got it slightly wrong with the 1982 plus two Bush statement.  Should have read a bird in the hand (or in your arms) is worth more than two of the Bushes.  And stay out of the bush otherwise Cheney will shoot you'

Other than that I'd be happy to sign up to your conspiracy theory club but I don't trust you!

As for your common sense it's a Paine in the ass.

Lucky you, Neptune Beer is not available on my planet Mars.

Bon fin de la semaine as they say in Quebec.

Correct. Even politically correct, as you chose to use the last name of the sharp-shooter!

You don't trust me? I don't believe you.

My common sense goes deeper than you think; in the same region you geolocalised, though.

Your distrust towards me is because of our plundering of your planet's most precious resource, beer...while we kept telling our people we were looking for water.

If you kick a sleeping bear in the head something bad will happen.

Guilty as charged but which one of us?  Bottoms up!

Vah! Denuone Latine loquebar? Me Ineptum. Interdum modo elabituir...

Beware of Greeks, unless they are bringing the drinks...

But less snarkily and back on topic, an interesting article from Democracy Now about calls for an end to US military presence (and all terrible things it brings with it) in Afghanistan..

http://www.democracynow.org/2011/5/3/10_years_too_long_rep_barbara

And how Bin Laden's death is fuelling conspiracy theories...

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,760742,00.html

'Discourtesy is unspeakably ugly to me'

A bit of a long shot, but as soon as I read that, that quote rang a bell. Didn't Hannibal Lector say that exact thing to Clarrise? 

Not to mention spelling violations. 

I joke. 

But why stop at Swiss law? Surely there are one or two international laws also being violated and maybe a galatic one as well? 

Back to the topic...It's interesting to review what's being written on the Al-Jazeera site...

http://english.aljazeera.net/indepth/opinion/2011/05/20115783235763346.html

I've been out of town and without internet the past few days. I must have missed something. What exactly is in dispute here? Why drag the great city of Geneva into our messy little discussions on life and love? 

In general, with this topic being just another example - it's like everyone lately is just lapping up stuff that's fed to them - Too many people just seem to be too quick to wave their flags and shout 'hoo-rah' and 'get some' without even taking the time to just... think!  Does what you're told really add up?  Only when all questions are answered does something become a fact.  I'm not a conspiracy theorist, by definition those people just 'theorise' and get nowhere apart from staying angry all their lives - I'm a realist, when I hear something I usually question it... is that a bad thing?  So back to this topic:  Shot in the face, no photos being released, said to have died whilst cowering behind his wife, body dumped in the sea... Am I the only one that has questions?  Or should I just believe this convenient Hollywood style ending?

Trillions of dollars in war, thousands of soldiers killed, thousands of civilians killed, a broken economy and divided nation does not a Hollywood ending make. 

Sides, its been revealed that he didn't die behind his wife, it was just one of the stories to come out. Further, he was not 'dumped' at sea, he was buried according to Islamic law.

I think what you need to do though is get some deep sea diving equipment and go down and find his body. Sniff the carcass for a few minutes, and you should feel better that it *is* in fact Osama. 

Or maybe not. 

Well, you raise some important points, of course which is why it is important to read and review many different sources over the course of time.

In the Vietnam-era, more US citizens saw more immediately the "costs" of war on their fellow citizens and Vietnamese because of the draft, and also because the US military was not as press-savy and the media was not as lazy.

Nowadays, journalists are "embedded" and ideologically "in bed" with the military and whichever US government is in charge.  For example, most of the major US newspapers, especially the New York Times, came out in favor of the Iraq war, although there was little to no evidence of weapons of mass destruction.

There is some great reporting by courageous journalists but readers have to seek it out.  Sometimes the mistakes are rather innocent, as in the "quote" mistakenly attributed to Martin Luther King. Other times, well let's say at best it is "disinformation" or the Hollywood ending...

"Hollywood style ending." I take offense and deem this a personal attack. 

9+ years. No Hollywood film can last half that long. Bollywood.

We should however, refuse to be bound by Swiss laws. For they allow similar leaders like Johnny Hallyday to seek refuge in their hill stations.

Agree... but certainly the US did not want to take him prisoner, or allow his body to be held for a martyrs funeral.... so what are the options...

Some weak burial at sea thing.... after being shot.

We both know what 9mm rounds can do (esp from an automatic weapon and the "double tap" method with "one to make sure" leaves quite a hole)...and whether he was cowering, or "valiantly" attacking at the point where he was shot in the face/head is of no consequence (apart from propoganda)... if they released a picture of some chap with half his face gone it would have fed the conspiracy theorists as well.....

Rock and a hard place.... doomed if they do, doomed if they dont.

Finally anyone who thinks that Government sanctioned killings/assassinations are not regularly carried out on home and foreign soil is living in a dream world.(whether legal or not, when a Gov't does it you can forget "lagality")

 OBL was killed because there was no other way to deal with him. How they dealt with the body and lack of pictures, is probably the one way which creates less media sensation and martyrdom...

Its not like anyone from Al Quaida could have attended a funeral... without risking a smart bomb... so

book closed in my humble opinion.

While most legal experts are questioning the legality of the killing of OBL under international law and few, if any, have made any conclusive statements, in absence of a thorough examination of the facts.  This is the reason why statements have been qualified with such terms as "appearance." 

On international legal issues and applicable laws -- not all -- nor yet even a majority of -- international legal experts agree on the issue, the two UK experts cited in the Guardian article referenced above) aside.  

What the article does say is:

"Despite widespread backing for the raid, there is a growing demand for the precise legal basis of the US operation to be explained, particularly given the absence of prior debate in the UN security council."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/may/03/osama-bin-laden-killing-legality

Here is another opinion and there will undoubtedly be others in the coming months and years:

http://opiniojuris.org/2011/05/04/quick-thoughts-on-ubls-killing-and-a-response-to-lewis/

On special operations issues..

http://www.haaretz.com/weekend/week-s-end/did-u-s-use-lessons-from-israel-s-entebbe-raid-to-prep-for-bin-laden-killing-1.360703

In addition, the comparison of Nazis and Bin Laden is not an exact legal analogy because former individuals were acting on behalf of a state and other was acting as an individual overseeing a group.  

http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/57jq2x.htm

Yet another legal opinion, this published online from the European Journal of International Law blog and author Marko Milanovic:

http://www.ejiltalk.org/was-the-killing-of-osama-bin-laden-lawful/

The site also has a wealth of additional articles and discusses which international humanitarian and human rights law are applicable.

"The Evolution of Individual Criminal Responsibility under International Law"

Nuremberg and Tokyo International Tribunals  

It was only after the Second World War that a movement started up within the international community which clearly began to shape a deeper consciousness of the need to prosecute serious violations of the laws of war [12 ] , with regard both to the traditional responsibility of States [13 ] and to the personal responsibility of individuals [14 ] . The horrible crimes committed by the Nazis and the Japanese led to a quick conclusion of agreements among the Allied Powers and to the subsequent establishment of the Nuremberg and Tokyo International Military Tribunals “for the trial of war criminals whose offences have no particular geographical location whether they be accused individually or in their capacity as members of organisations or groups or in both capacities” [15 ] . These special jurisdictions also took into account the new categories of crimes against humanity [16 ] and crimes against peace.

Article 6 of the Charter of the Nuremberg International Military Tribunal established the legal basis for trying individuals accused of the following acts:

— Crimes against peace  : the planning, preparation, initiation or waging of a war of aggression, or a war in violation of international treaties [17 ] , agreements or assurances, or participation in a common plan or conspiracy for the accomplishment of any of the foregoing.

— War crimes  : violations of the laws and customs of war. A list follows with, inter alia, murder, ill-treatment or deportation into slave labour or for any other purpose of the civilian population of or in occupi ed territory, murder or ill-treatment of prisoners of war or persons on the seas, the killing of hostages, the plunder of public or private property, the wanton destruction of cities, towns or villages, or devastation not justified by military necessity.

— Crimes against humanity : murder, extermination, enslavement, deportation, and other inhuman acts committed against any civilian population, before or during the war, or persecutions on political, racial or religious grounds in execution of or in connection with any crime within the jurisdiction of the Tribunal, whether or not in violation of the domestic law of the country where perpetrated [18 ] .

As far as jurisdiction ratione personae is concerned, it covered “leaders, organisers, instigators and accomplices” who had taken part in the formulation or execution of a common plan or conspiracy to commit any of those crimes: all of them were considered for “all acts performed by any persons in the execution of such plan”.

http://www.icrc.org/eng/resources/documents/misc/57jq2x.htm

Not applicable to the Bin Laden discussion.  See the above legal articles for references and arguments

I agree with the lawyers (who can afford to disagree?).

Yet, none of these lawyers spoke out of these nitty-gritties when the multi-million dollar bounties were placed on the heads of the terrorists in question. If these legalities had been presented at the aftermath of September 11, they would have made interesting perceptions upon which, today's world could have been shaped. 

It has been clearly mass-consumed, for the last decade that, "These individuals are to be captured Dead or Alive." No one complained that these announcements reeked of future illegal actions by individuals, secret services or other agents.

The opportunity to capture (and earn the reward) was open to anyone in the world, including those on the world-wide-web who today, disagree with Operation Neptune's Spear, just because it was carried out on the orders of the leader of a developed nation. Legal experts now are trying to read between every line spoken or written about this operation and its 'appearance' which no one knows much about, anyways.

Leaders are forced to spontaneously find solutions, demcocracy or no democracy, Nobel or Magsasay. Yes, it is always helpful if they could auto-critique, so perhaps, we should criticise such solutions independently. Obama has a job to do and so does the Navy Seal.

If I were in Obama's position, I'd have meditated about it and left it for Supreme Courts, Karma and the natural law of cause & effect to deal with it. All laws would have remained intact. But I'm not in his place, he is. And thank God & my birth certificate for that. ;) 

An evil old man is dead. Maybe he wasn't as evil as the ones who made him, perhaps not evil at all. But let's not make him out to be an example of illegal big-game just because we disagree with the operation (as known to us, which is zilch, as of now) that was deployed to eliminate him.

There's no dearth of information we can find on the internet and otherwise. Beware, though...we will only apply, process and reflect as per our own confirmatory bias.

My two cents (of an appreciating Indian Rupee) on the real topic which I just found out, has nothing to do with beer! 

I can confirm that.  And it reminds me of the usefulness of beer. 

In my Peace Corps days, I heard of some US Methodist missionaries taking a boat trip down the Congo river.  Well, they apparently ran out of clean drinking water and refused to quaff beer, the local brands being Simba (lion-lighter) and Tembo (elephant-darker-stronger).  

The other passengers appeared to have had a merry old time while the missionaries ended up with disentary.  I therefore came to the belief that beer is indeed one of God's gift to humanity.

@Arun

"But let's not make him out to be an example of illegal big-game just because we disagree with the operation (as known to us, which is zilch, as of now) that was deployed to eliminate him."

I am sorry, sir, but the above point is entirely too reasonable and pragmatic for a Glocals discussion.  It is neither Hollywood, Bollywood nor applicable in the court of law of my mind.

Therefore, no beer for you!