I've also wondered about this, but I think that practically all of these kids are from families with latin american background. Can it "be a thing" in their countries? In any case it's quite sad :( 

'...practically all of these kids are from families with latin american background'?

Really? You've interviewed 'practically all'  these babies or their parents? And what are the 'Euro' babies doing? Drinking retsina? 

Well, I can tell as brazilian Im always shocked by these huge kids in strollers. We defo are not doing this. As long as kid start walking, we stop using it slowly. This is really european thing. 

Funny answer, I'm from a 100% Latin American background. In Costa Rica I can tell you, this is quite far from being real... My mom got shocked when she visited me, as much as I am (still after 3 years here) ...

Just as you thought things could not get worse, here goes...lol

I think parents here rely a lot on soothers from birth to calm and quiet their children that it makes the depedency on them harder to break when they're older.  Also, maternity/parental leave here is really short and it's much easier for daycares or maman du jours to deal with infants via a soother than if there was a 1:1 ratio of caregiver-child. 

I'm lamost certain they are not from Laitin American backgrounds as I know that children there are often never even put in a buggy.  Thye will be carried as babaies and as soon as they can walk then they will walk everywhere.  I don't know if these children are from Swiss families or not as I havn't asked them but I just think it's so sad to see a 5 year old in a buggy with a dummy shoved in their mouth to keep them quiet.

BTW, it doesn't stop with infants. I've noticed that adolescents (especially in France) are treated as kids far longer than elsewhere.

Holly F!...do u have children?.....

No I don't but I have been working with children for 8 years now and have not seen this anywhere else aprat from Geneva!

Hi tawb, what do you mean by this exactly?  Can you provide examples?

Sigh.   I was hoping this wouldn't degenerate into a post bashing mothers who choose to breastfeed until their child is physiologically ready to stop (which on average is between the age of 3-7, the latter when a child's immune system is fully developed and also when adult teeth are fully in, so latch is no longer possible).

Oh and for this video, the child is actually seven... not twelve. 

I've been working with children for around 20 years and I have all kinds of theories on how I'll do one day as a mom... But I also realize that I might change my views when I become a mom, because then it becomes a question of emotions and affect.

I have never seen children with dummies at day cares. We usually train them there to stay without dummies or "doudous". That's only for nap. But I know that many kids go get them when mommy or daddy arrives...

When a child becomes a big brother or a big sister, he sometimes wants to be babied. He wants to be held as a baby, drink with a bottle and might even want to ride in a stroller. It's up to the parents to handle this passage wisely in order to help the child want to grow up. Now I really do believe that it helps the parents to let a child ride in a stroller. It goes faster, and then the child doesn't stop at every flower or little stone on the way. And hey, I loved it as a child, and I still remember being sad when my mom did not let me ride in my stroller anymore!!! But I'm shocked just as everyone else here when I see it.... It's also a question of standing firm in front of a child and say "no" to him, which I believe becomes more and more difficult for some parents, because they don't know. Most of them are not trained as us, teachers, in education and pedagogical theories. They use their hearts, their own education or they're too tired after a day at work to fight some more with their child....

Once you put yourself in their shoes, you might understand their ways a little bit better, even if you might still not agree with them.

I don't agree with that... In day cares, children motivate each other to grow up. They see one of their friend go on the potty, then they want to do the same.

In day cares, they don't have their dummies in their mouths all the time. If none of them have it, then none of them want it. They just imitate each other.

Sorry but i did not get the bit where this has degenerated ?!?!?!?  Well at least you reacted to the video.  Personnaly i find that quite shocking that video...

Thanks Myriam.

I was talking about the baby rooms - where the wee ones are looked over (under the age of 1).  Where my son goes they have their soothers in all day and it's encouraged that the parents bring them.  I don't really have an opinion on them either way - if it works for you great!  I've just personally observed that they are used a lot more here than I saw back home (Canada) where the mat leave is longer and the use of them past 12 months is discouraged.

Your question is interesting. You speak about dummies and strollers - Just the other day I was remarking on some very small children who were walking hand in hand with their parents, still unsteady on their feet, but narry a stroller or baby carrier in sight! Also, I'm impressed by the parents who bring their very young children to galleries and museums, engaging with them in conversations about the exhibits. I see kids racing around on their pedal-less bikes, and being conducted en masse on the public transport or in large barrows or in lines with their bright vests, clasping hands with a partner or holding onto a rope ring. Too much fear in Anglo countries where I've lived to take them out like that!

My sense about child-rearing in Europe is that childhood is valued for itself, not just a stage that must be endured until the kids can do what grown-ups do. Kids have started reading only at age 7, and the early years at school have been focussed on play and socialisation. The playgrounds here are much more interesting than where my children grew up, and the toys are amazing!

this doesn't adress the issue of dummies and strollers: perhaps you need to look at the parents where you're working and consider their individual situations. Children don't come with instructions: partly because there is no one right way to rear them. But don't fall into the trap of thinking that you wouldn't like something, so the child wouldn't either! On the other hand, If you're in charge,  observe the individual child closely. If you see signs that they're unhappy, raise the issue with the parents!

Haaha Holly we noticed the same. Both the dummies and the strollers!

We took Annas dummy away before she was 2, just told her santa took it and left her some pressies, she was quite happy with that. She walks everywhere quite happily since long before she was 3.

Little Holly might be a different story cos she's a screamer sometimes but we plan the same.

Personally I look at these older kids with dummies sitting in strollers and think they are somehow being held back!

By the way, it's totally mingin in ecosse today, winter has returned :)

Does winter ever go away?

I get your point, Stephanie. But I'm really surprised the educators encourage you to bring soothers!!!! I do personnally believe that if a baby never had a soother, he doesn't need it at all. And he'll find other resources to be soothed. I'm not sure this is a Swiss thing in day cares... Maybe just in the one your child attends. It sure helps the educators.... Not the babies.

I used to think the same with the strollers, but then when I was in NYC I realized with all the walking we do, it's a lot to ask of a little kid. Not sure about the pacifiers - it's not good for their teeth once they have them. But it's a parenting thing. I'd suggest avoiding making a judgment.

It's interesting to see that 50pct here has an opinion, but not even has children. You know what, first get them - and than try if your school book theory still works. What a big pile of manure, working at a daycare center is something else than parenting!!.... And what has maternity leave to do with it? Perhaps a kid that just goes to sleep for a change might be the only reason! Give me a break. My wife is a full time stay at home mom, and we tried everything with the doudou's but they still want them.. The oldest is almost turning 5 - and we now finally seem to have managed after 300 attempts to get her of it. Some kiddo's do it easier and quicker than others. 

With the walking as well - if you want to go somewhere - and they don't want to walk, what do you do? Not go, or just let them sit and walk everytime a little bit more. They are children. Not sure what's wrong with some of you, but it seems that they are not allowed to be a child anymore. It's easy to pass judgement on parents, but it's different for every other child, and it has nothing to do with their nationality. And it might that your child doesn't use a doudou anymore, but isn't potty trained, but doesn't speak 3 languages?

(ps. we have 3  - 1 of almost 5 and twins of 2,5)

My daughter is 3 and still on the buggy and pacifier. My reasons:

1. She would love to get off the buggy but it is easier for me so I mostly use it for going to the creche in the morning or if I will have to go by the supermarket after.

2. I sucked my thumb till I was over 25 years old and everytime I try to take away her pacifier she does the same. I would rather she has the pacifier than suck her thumb it is harder to break the later.

3. Nannies are not cheap in Geneva so sometimes the parents have to juggle a lot and it is easier with the kids together.

4. Unless you have a car walking around Geneva (especially in the cold) with a kid is not really convenient. too many people too many cars. If it was some small village in the mountains better.

5. I think in the creche they walk a lot. My daughter can walk from charmille to Seujet with the creche but I try to get her to do the same and it doesnt work.

Well those are my reasons I'm sure the other parents have their reasons too.

Exactly - It's always the by-standers who have their opinion, but have actually no clue what they are actually talking about . Nothing to be ashamed off! I'd rather see a happy kiddo of 5 years old sitting in a buggy sucking a pacifier than a unhappy kiddo not doing either... They will all break the habit eventually. 

Sometimes they need a little comfort moment - like you take your sigarette break, your cup of tea / coffee etc.etc.

Of all the issues parents should worry over when it comes to raising a child this seems like an incredibly petty thing to judge parents over. 

My daughter is 2 years old and always hated to be inside the buggy. So... since she started walking she would scape from it. BUT she is 18 kg and every time I want to go somewhere faster or need to carry her and my back hurts like hell... i wish she would accept to sit inside a buggy!!! Her nucky I only give to sleep (same at the creche) but I am slowly trying to take it out from her because of her teeth (even though my Mum had it until she was 7 and has perfect teeth...). 

And answering to a previous sad comment... no, it is probably not a latin american thing. 

Carol has she always used it only to sleep at the creche? Coz I am trying the same and I didnt know you can tell the creche that she can only use it for sleeping though with the baby sitter she only uses it for sleeping.

The creche should follow what the parents do at home to be coherent for the child. If they use the dummy at other times, then they're helping themselves, not the child....

Not that I was expecting this to be kept a nice clean debate, but woah some sensitive sallys/simons on here.

Whoever brought geography into this, no countries is perfect for child-rearing and taking a 5 seconds snapshot on the street into peoples lives doesnt really do them justice.

Having said that, parents who think they are above questioning and criticism,  sorry but you are not. You are molding the next generation, and that means they will be everyones gift or problem, in the present and future. I would agree that working with children isnt the same but having children for 2-3 yrs should not be immediately held above 20yrs of experience and vice versa. Get off the your high horse Martin.

Personally breastfeeding past a young age is creepy and is not going to help the child in the modern age, but at an early age it is critical for growth and immune systems. I understand the reasoning behind the buggy, but it seems like a mostly convenience based issue (though not all the time).

If you cant carry your child anymore, they are probably too big for pacifiers (dummys/doudous), breastfeeding and strollers.

Sorry to a few of you but a 7 year breastfeeding, dummy using, stroller riding child is a sad sight!

Would you allow a 13 year old to use a potty because it was what they were comfortable with and you didnt 'have the energy' to stop it? No, because it would be weird. 

In Little Britain, breastfeeding never ends...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FmD2Y6WxpIwjavascript:mctmp(0);

thats weird - I've noticed that adolescents (especially in France) are far better behaved than elsewhere.

This is such an old worn-out and boring tale.

Why? Because they are stupid!

Who are « they » ?

The children or the British or the French ?

Very interesting topic, as I dont work with kids I cant say much here. But my own kids were breastfed till they wee 18 months old and afterwards it was over.

these days parents are stupid and lazy! not even important are they from england or france or from moon. Stupid and lazy! It makes me sick to look those 3 years olds who walk, talk and then been treated like little babies! whos fault? Parents!! 

What some people won't do for attention! 

Merike YOU ARE CERTAINLY NOT A MOTHER,,,,,,?...

Yes I am not a mother but I have worked with kids for 10 years. Been au pair, nanny and teacher. so i have seen the inside story why they are like they are. How would you explane 7 years old boy still having a bottle of milk for going to bed? Is it because he really should need it or is it because parents are lazy?

You are just full of Anger because of your Own experiences....You cannt put all the Parents in the same Basket...feel really Sorry for You..

No, I can confirm that it is not 'the thing' there, Helen - Strollers are not at all popular in Latin America, and neither are dummies.  In fact, you would look a bit strange pushing a baby or small child in a stroller/pushchair in Lat Am, well not strange, just foreign. 

Not sure I ever said anywhere these days ALL parents. But the ones who do give their 7 years olds bottle and make 5 years old still use stroller and give them dummies for sure are lazy. How else would you see it?  am very sorry if any one of you felt as if I am beeing agressive and hurt your feelings. Was not my prupose. Just this is my strong feeling about these type of things. again, very sorry if I hurt anyone of you.

Being a nanny, aupair or even teacher (I hope it was not english you were teaching) does not make you a parent. wait till you have your own perfect children then you should come back and comment on how lazy and stupid the rest of the parents are. And I hope you have them here in Geneva then you will really understand how easy it is to be "lazy". 

Kind of hard to believe you didn't think calling people stupid and lazy will not hurt their feelings. I am sure the parents of the 7 year old who is still using the bottle have a very good reason why they are doing that. There is no parent no matter how "lazy" who would want to stagnate the growth of their child. They do their best but every child has a different way and time of progressing.

My daughter started walking way after she was a year old. I had always thought children who take long to walk have parents who are doing something wrong, until I had mine and realised that sometimes no matter what you do they will do things at their own time.

Plus try living next to some neighbour who will not want to hear a peep out of your child at night. Trust me after answering a few letters from the regie and enough calls from the neighbour, you will give that child the bottle or dummie until they are well ready to give up by themselves.

Its the circumstances and I am sure if you took time to ask a few parents (like the poster of this forum did) you will learn a lot. For example now she knows it is not only latin Americans who use the stollers.

I'm a bit offended by this.  I don't have a clear answer, or know if it actually deserves one, but maybe there's more strollers because there's a more outdoor life here - it's easier to go for long walks, and of course it can be a bit hilly.  From my own experience of getting my 6 year old and 3 year old out of the house and away from the Nintendo on a Sunday, this could be a relevant factor.  

We go for a family walk down to the lake, and we push along an 'empty' stroller just incase one of the kids wants to jump in to rest their legs (because otherwise we'll have to carry them back up a hill.)  I don't think I'm a bad parent, or that my children are too much like babies - and it's never crossed my mind that someone might be observing me, and shaking their head that I'm pushing my six year old in a stroller... even though we have just completed a 5 km hike where he ran the first 4 km!  I think the question is a bit pointless and obviously made by someone who is not a parent... who may indeed work with children, but maybe has not enjoy them in their own time on a sunday afternoon.  

I could be wrong, but if I decided that I didn't like red cars, I would suddenly see them everywhere... and my forum post complaining about the high number of red cars would attract people who love there red car and have a good reason for owning it.  And my opinion suddenly would not matter or have any social relevance.

Well said Marcy... Some people don't even know how to sit on a chair properly, so we shouldn't worry too much about their opinions!

I have a stroller for my 5 years old! My older can walk a lot while the younger gets tired sooner which irritates the older one. In order to keep them away from "screen time" and get them used to outdoors and fresh air I take them out often and because of age difference and energy levels of both kids I have to keep a stroller in case the younger one gets tired. The "lazy" parent has to do the walking and the pushing, its no fun, every parent has a reason, like I have.

I kind of feel like I should tell you what I mean under lazy parent. 1) instead of teaching and giving your kid options to make their pick. they have been force to one thing. 2) keep your 7 years old still on milk bottle for bed time, not reading a book and having a nice moment before they fall a sleep.3) still wipe your 8 years old kids bum after toilet. instead of teaching them how to do it them self and properly.

4)butting your 5 years old all the time in the stroller from the door to the door not letting a kid to walk because it is faster for parent. These type of mistakes makes a parent a lazy person. I am not saying the ones who have walks and stroller with them just in case are lazy. I would never do so. But this is the last time I bother to say anything. Because you all think as if I am super bad ignorant un polite person who finds all the parents in the world lazy, which is not the case. I find lazy parents lazy.

5) kid walked on the leash, because it is easier as their hands are too short?? these type of things are not cool. Otherwise, Yes every parent have to do what their kids is programmed, some wont give up their favorite toy until they are 10. Some never. Some kids wont want milk bottle after a year. Different type of kids but if a parent is not even going to try to teach them anything then that makes a parent what?? Lazy.. Wish you lovely end of the month and happy soon coming Valentines day!

Merike,

i have never read so much prejudiced rubbish in my life. You clearly have no clue what it takes to be a parent. like e.g. Deano said - the 7yo you sitting in a strawler might just have been walking for 5k. Or the parents already where struggling the whole morning and decided to give in on a doudou, because otherwise they'd be spending the whole morning fighting their little ones. 

i I was told by an other person to get of my high horse before, clearly by someone who hasn't got kiddies himself, because the problem as parents- as far as it could be called a problem, compared to you so called professionals, is that we normally unconditionally love our children. And that emotion is pretty strong, and cannot be replaced by any experience as a nanny, babysitter or teacher. 

So if you perhaps want to live up do your own thread, I find you extremely prejudiced, rude and not thoughtful - up to the point of even being extremely provocative. So - do me a favor and just don't talk about this subject because you clearly have NO clue what you are talking about. 

And a kid walking on a leash? Perha

Perhaps - the parents are scared that the little one runs away under a car _ two year old are notoriously NOT listening. And I drink - be it a glass - of milk before I go to bed. Has it come to you mind that they just perhaps LIKE milk?  And that it comes from a bottle ? Who cares!  

I have over 15 years experience with children, as I've been working with them in day cares and other settings in different places in the world. 

But I'm not a parent yet.

I don't always agree with parents, nor with my fellow workers at times. But I listen to them and try to understand where they stand. Sometimes I question myself too. I tend to be pretty strict with the children I work with, and I have good results with them. However no affect is attached to my work (though I like the children I work with a lot, of course...) as a parent could have.

My idea is that you should not try to do something with a child, unless you're sure of being able to do it. For example, I take the children on walks without a rope and I'm confident in what I'm doing. I have to be super vigilent when I do so. But if someone doesn't feel like doing it without a rope, because he feels safer that way, then he should keep the rope. I guess you need to do what you feel confident in doing. Because a child will know your weaknesses right away and try to go away with it. That's when accidents could happen or any type of delicate situations.

We all do mistakes with children. But what counts is how we react to it. 

There is nothing wrong in being strict, I had this morning a huge fight with my 5 year old who wanted to go school as pippi longstockings on a bad hair day. You come to a point you don't want to discuss things with a 5 year old. But there are just some issues, famously given by our experts here like strawlers, bottles of milk, doudous etc.etc. which are just not worth a fight all the time. It's OK to have continuous "battles" as a teacher/nanny/"professional" - however, as a partent I want also to have some nice times from time to time. That, as a fact, doesn't make me lazy, it makes me a nice parent who isn't angry all the time and loves his kids

The utter BS Merike wrote should be challanged. 99.9 of the parents are far from lazy - but they choose their battles - because having to fight all the time doesn't make a nice time now does it? The "professionals" close the door behind them at 4pm, we take care of our little ones the rest of our life. It's easy from the sideline - and to critice parents as being lazy is most prejudiced bs comment I've ever seen. 

So please stop defending this rubbish post, parenting is notoriously difficult, even without these stupid comments. It doesn't come with a manual, there is no school, and everybody knows it better. But I still love it! But don't ever call me lazy. Period. 

you have said that....:)

I agree with you !! :)  .. 

with the fantastic driving on display in this town, I am not surprised that they are scared that the cars will mount the kerbs and drive into the parks.

Actually, at 7 years old he should have cleaned his teeth before going to bed. WITHOUT a bottle.

I don't really agree. At SOME point, kids get to see that the outside world is not like home, and that what they get readily at home is not readily given by the rest of the community they live in. And vice versa! I can think of many examples, but one in particular is a little 'princess' that is never punished, chastised or reasoned with, indeed never told to consider others, and when she goes to kindergarten/school the other kids are pretty quick to let her know that she is not princess there. Would you have the teachers go along with the parents skewed idea of that reality? At some point we all need to find out. Obviously infants who have dummies and potty training regimen is a different story, but from about 3 onwards.....a creche is a community.

it seems to have degenerated into a post bashing non-mothers though.

Martin ,

         I agree with you 100% .  Parents are not lazy I totally  agree with that, as you said 99% of them are not .As we are Living in a community where we have to struggle to live , and  even for the people for the people who are rich .

And to become a parent is not that easy! :) . Au pair or Nany or 10 years of expirence even with whatever they have they cannot  compare them with the real parents .

"eg : the people who is in the gallery wathicng the foot ball match or any game , they can always critisise the players or their gameplay , because it easy for them to give comments , but only the player knows how he is stuggling . 

P.s I really think that this post is useless .and this doesn't make a sense .. 

I took a plane tip that lasted over 20 hours where I tried to sleep, but the kid behind me jumped on the seats and shrieked and kicked the back of my seat for most of that. After an hour or so thinking he would calm down or his mother would show some social awareness, I asked the mother very nicely if she could ask him to stop and explain to him that there is someone on the other side of the seat. She went ballistic and shrieked, "HE'S A KID!!!! YOU OBVIOUSLY DON'T HAVE CHILDREN" and shit to the effect of me being a bystander and have no clue what I was talking about. The kid was 7 or 8. Old enough to learn that he lives in a social setting, but unfortunately with an a-hole for a parent, who teaches him that he can do what he wants whenever he wants, without a thought for others.

I have my opinions about dummies, and I don't think it should ever become "a habit they will break eventually" when they take up chain smoking to fill the need, but whatever. 

While all kids get very frustrated in planes on long haul flights because THEY ARE KIDS! Some can be more than others. There are kids who have hyper activity disorder and it gets really difficult for parents and schools to deal with them..... But they still try their best. I have a friend whose son is hyperactive and while to the world she might look like an "a**hole" parent, the people close to her know well what a wonderful mother she is and how much she is doing for her child. Whether you are a mother or not STOP JUDGING OTHERS!! You havent walked a mile in their shoes and you give yourself the right to call them stupid, lazy, a**holes etc etc. What a shame!!! 

So, without being there, you have the right to judge me, diagnose the kid, tell me what kind of mother he had, and tell me I have no idea about raising kids. She was an a-hole parent, because she demonstrated to the kid that the correct way to respond to someone who is politely asking about a situation, is to scream and deride in much the same manner as you have above. You haven't walked a mile in my shoes either. 

Read again! Neither did I judge you nor I diagnosed the kid! I gave you an example of a friend! And said that there are many reasons for a situation and one should be slightly tolerant! 

Telling a mom that she should tall her kid to behave is not really polite! It's telling her that she is an idiot, so her anger is justified. i agree it can be bothersome and the right way to do is to speak to the hostess. I do not know what was your situation but I wouldn't tell off a parent like that! If a kid bothers me too much I would speak to the hostess! There are energetic kids and there are intolerant adults. ...... May be one day tne same kid wood be ranting like this on a forum, forgetting he was also a kid once! 

I will leave this thread to the kids and parents bashers, there is too much non sense here! 

This is a very delicat subject

I think the question of travelling, by air or any other public conveyances, with a hyperactive child raises issues of civil responsibility and common courtesy on the part of the parent(s) vis-à-vis other passengers and the attendant staff.

When we book a flight, we have the right to expect a safe journey in reasonable comfort, which does not include our seat back being kicked by an unruly child or anyone else for that matter.

If the parent(s) have no option but to travel by air, it is their responsility to inform the transporter of their child’s special needs and to administer any appropriate  authorizedmedication –

not simply for the comfort of the child and other passengers but also in the interests of safety should an emergency arise. 

Rather than the parent blowing his/her top, a simple explanation will do much to cool the air since most people react kindly when they know something of the child’s condition.

Nevertheless, impairment, whatever its form and whatever the age, does not convey an automatic licence to preferential treatment and the undue disturbance of others.  The world does not owe the parent or the child a living and the sooner this axiom is learned the better for one and all.

Ritchie

You did not understand my point. Here the parent tries to keep the dummy only for nap while teachers use it at other times too.

As a child care teacher I can work up to 18h 30 or from 7 am... some kids come everyday. So I see them a lot. It doesnt make me a better person than a parent but I do have my share of work especially when I work with 10 kids all day on my own with lunch nap diaper change and potty training. I have some great times with them as much as challenges. But it's all rewarding. and I love my job.

I didn't tell her off. At all. I was tolerant and very polite when I approached her. She was the one who immediately starting yelling and barking and insulting me. But apparently that's okay for her because you have a friend who has a hyperactive child. 

and by the way, you are the one who should read again - both the original message, and your reply.

Sounds as though the poor child had inherited his hyperactivity.