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best way to exchange money

Hi everyone,


I am working in Geneva but will be returning to the US. I still pay bills in the US and was wondering what the best way to bring money back was. Is it better to do a wire transfer, withdraw money from a US atm with my Swiss debit card, or bring chf cash to US and exchange in a bank? I appreciate any feedback!

The text you are quoting:

Hi everyone,


I am working in Geneva but will be returning to the US. I still pay bills in the US and was wondering what the best way to bring money back was. Is it better to do a wire transfer, withdraw money from a US atm with my Swiss debit card, or bring chf cash to US and exchange in a bank? I appreciate any feedback!


Stephanie LApr 3, 2013 @ 19:33
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Re: best way to exchange money
Post 1

If it's not large amounts (>10,000) that might get you in trouble at the customs I would think bringing cash with you is the cheapest, as it saves you transfer fees, admin etc. ATMs of major banks (UBS, Credit Suisse) allow you to withdraw USD directly and the exchange rate is fair. I would do that rather than take CHF with me and exchange it in the US.


Again depending on the amounts we are talking about you might need to start withdrawing the money gradually over a few days/weeks as there are daily and monthly limits of how much you can withdraw from ATMs.


 

The text you are quoting:

If it's not large amounts (>10,000) that might get you in trouble at the customs I would think bringing cash with you is the cheapest, as it saves you transfer fees, admin etc. ATMs of major banks (UBS, Credit Suisse) allow you to withdraw USD directly and the exchange rate is fair. I would do that rather than take CHF with me and exchange it in the US.


Again depending on the amounts we are talking about you might need to start withdrawing the money gradually over a few days/weeks as there are daily and monthly limits of how much you can withdraw from ATMs.


 


catalin, Apr 4, 2013 @ 09:19
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Re: best way to exchange money
Post 2

Your US bank might be able to accept SWIFT transfers.  I'd contact them and ask by what method(s) they can receive incoming transfers from abroad.


Otherwise Catalin is right.  You might find that using an ATM to pull your monthly maximum is the most cost-effective.


Note that your Swiss bank is likely to freeze your account if they catch wind of the fact that you are no longer a CH resident.  You would need to make immediate arrangements to close the account and transfer your funds.  Thanks to FATCA legislation, US persons are the unwanted untouchables of the international banking world.

The text you are quoting:

Your US bank might be able to accept SWIFT transfers.  I'd contact them and ask by what method(s) they can receive incoming transfers from abroad.


Otherwise Catalin is right.  You might find that using an ATM to pull your monthly maximum is the most cost-effective.


Note that your Swiss bank is likely to freeze your account if they catch wind of the fact that you are no longer a CH resident.  You would need to make immediate arrangements to close the account and transfer your funds.  Thanks to FATCA legislation, US persons are the unwanted untouchables of the international banking world.


richardm, Apr 4, 2013 @ 10:24
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Re: best way to exchange money
Post 3

If it's not large amounts (>10,000) that might get you in trouble at the customs I would think bringing cash with you is the cheapest, as it saves you transfer fees, admin etc. ATMs of major banks (UBS, Credit Suisse) allow you to withdraw USD directly and the exchange rate is fair. I would do that rather than take CHF with me and exchange it in the US.

Again depending on the amounts we are talking about you might need to start withdrawing the money gradually over a few days/weeks as there are daily and monthly limits of how much you can withdraw from ATMs.

 


Apr 4, 13 09:19
>10,000 is not that large
The text you are quoting:
>10,000 is not that large
rena, Apr 4, 2013 @ 13:28
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Re: best way to exchange money
Post 4

Your US bank might be able to accept SWIFT transfers.  I'd contact them and ask by what method(s) they can receive incoming transfers from abroad.

Otherwise Catalin is right.  You might find that using an ATM to pull your monthly maximum is the most cost-effective.

Note that your Swiss bank is likely to freeze your account if they catch wind of the fact that you are no longer a CH resident.  You would need to make immediate arrangements to close the account and transfer your funds.  Thanks to FATCA legislation, US persons are the unwanted untouchables of the international banking world.


Apr 4, 13 10:24

I need to clarify your last sentance "US persons are the wanted untouchables of the international banking world".


This statement is not true.   Actually the current situation is that "No bank will touch a US tax evader".  This means that if you are a US person the bank will require you to sign certain documents like a W9 and soon FATCA docs to ensure that all your income is reported by the bank.  The problem is that if they did not previously have the correct forms in the bank and they discover you are a US person, they can't be sure you previously paid your taxes, so you may be asked to close the account.  It should be no problem opening a new account in a new bank provided you sign the correct forms.


If you were born in the USA, you are a US person, even if you don't have a US passport and have never lived there, and never paid taxes in the USA.  Unless you can satisfy the Swiss bank that you have legally renounced your entitlement to US citizenship they will have to treat you as a US person.  


FATCA forces the banks to conduct an electronic search for US "indica" designed to root out possible US persons.  Furthermore the banker will be made personally and criminally liable if he fails to disclose something he is aware that would indicate a client may be a US person, and the banker will have to sign off for every client.  Naturally this strikes terror in the minds of bankers who now fear all US clients.  Actually the fear is mis-placed.  What the bankers should fear is "un-discovered" US clients.  They have nothing to fear from those whose US status is recorded and reporting documentation is in order.


The other problem is jurisdiction.  It depends where you live.  If you live in the USA, the bank will need certain licences to provide you with certain services such as investment advice.  Some banks will have a US competency centre, which is legally authorised to do this.    It means your account will be moved to that specialist department if it exists.  However not all banks want to do this as it costs money to have suitabily qualified advisors and licences.  If your bank does not have a specialist department for US residents, they may have to close your account.  This would apply even if you don't want or need investment advice since the bank does not want to take the risk.  Furthermore, if they can't provide advice, products or services, it won't be a profitable account.


Conclusion: If you are a US citizen living in Switzerland, there should be no problem opening a fully tax compliant account and receiving investment advice.  However if you move to the USA (irrespective of your citizenship), some banks will not be able to keep your account open.  You need to check with them long before you move to avoid problems at the last minute.

The text you are quoting:

I need to clarify your last sentance "US persons are the wanted untouchables of the international banking world".


This statement is not true.   Actually the current situation is that "No bank will touch a US tax evader".  This means that if you are a US person the bank will require you to sign certain documents like a W9 and soon FATCA docs to ensure that all your income is reported by the bank.  The problem is that if they did not previously have the correct forms in the bank and they discover you are a US person, they can't be sure you previously paid your taxes, so you may be asked to close the account.  It should be no problem opening a new account in a new bank provided you sign the correct forms.


If you were born in the USA, you are a US person, even if you don't have a US passport and have never lived there, and never paid taxes in the USA.  Unless you can satisfy the Swiss bank that you have legally renounced your entitlement to US citizenship they will have to treat you as a US person.  


FATCA forces the banks to conduct an electronic search for US "indica" designed to root out possible US persons.  Furthermore the banker will be made personally and criminally liable if he fails to disclose something he is aware that would indicate a client may be a US person, and the banker will have to sign off for every client.  Naturally this strikes terror in the minds of bankers who now fear all US clients.  Actually the fear is mis-placed.  What the bankers should fear is "un-discovered" US clients.  They have nothing to fear from those whose US status is recorded and reporting documentation is in order.


The other problem is jurisdiction.  It depends where you live.  If you live in the USA, the bank will need certain licences to provide you with certain services such as investment advice.  Some banks will have a US competency centre, which is legally authorised to do this.    It means your account will be moved to that specialist department if it exists.  However not all banks want to do this as it costs money to have suitabily qualified advisors and licences.  If your bank does not have a specialist department for US residents, they may have to close your account.  This would apply even if you don't want or need investment advice since the bank does not want to take the risk.  Furthermore, if they can't provide advice, products or services, it won't be a profitable account.


Conclusion: If you are a US citizen living in Switzerland, there should be no problem opening a fully tax compliant account and receiving investment advice.  However if you move to the USA (irrespective of your citizenship), some banks will not be able to keep your account open.  You need to check with them long before you move to avoid problems at the last minute.


Marcus T, Apr 4, 2013 @ 14:57
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Re: best way to exchange money
Post 5

I stand by my statement.  Yes, it was a bit of an exaggeration but I would not say that we are welcomed with open arms.  How many banks in CH other than UBS and Postfinance (if you can call them a bank) will accept US persons as new customers?  How many will retain these US persons as customers if they no longer maintain residence in CH?  How many will retain these departing US persons if they have a low balance (say, under $10k)?  I ask because having a few million to deposit opens a lot of doors; 10k not so much.  I'd like to know..

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I stand by my statement.  Yes, it was a bit of an exaggeration but I would not say that we are welcomed with open arms.  How many banks in CH other than UBS and Postfinance (if you can call them a bank) will accept US persons as new customers?  How many will retain these US persons as customers if they no longer maintain residence in CH?  How many will retain these departing US persons if they have a low balance (say, under $10k)?  I ask because having a few million to deposit opens a lot of doors; 10k not so much.  I'd like to know..


richardm, Apr 4, 2013 @ 16:02
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Re: best way to exchange money
Post 6
>10,000 is not that large
Apr 4, 13 13:28

I know it's not for you my dear but in the customs you must declare cash amounts >10,000 and justify their provenience.

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I know it's not for you my dear but in the customs you must declare cash amounts >10,000 and justify their provenience.


catalin, Apr 4, 2013 @ 16:33
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Re: best way to exchange money
Post 7

Hi Stephanie, I use OANDA for my transfers which I can highly recommend.


Be very careful with the exchange rates used by retail banks -- Barclays once wanted to charge me 5% on a transfer from GBP to CHF... on over 10k. So over 500 bucks on top of 25 GBP transaction fee. I'd expect USD cash withdrawals to cost ~2%.


FX trading platforms offer much much better exchange rates (~0.01% implied fee) -- plus a similar transaction fee.


It is a bit of a process to set up the account (takes about a week), but if you're frequently moving money around, it's definitely worth a look -- and its free.


However, it does only allow you transfers to your own accounts, so you cant pay bills directly.


I'll leave the regulatory discussion to the others and specialize on the execution here ;-)

The text you are quoting:

Hi Stephanie, I use OANDA for my transfers which I can highly recommend.


Be very careful with the exchange rates used by retail banks -- Barclays once wanted to charge me 5% on a transfer from GBP to CHF... on over 10k. So over 500 bucks on top of 25 GBP transaction fee. I'd expect USD cash withdrawals to cost ~2%.


FX trading platforms offer much much better exchange rates (~0.01% implied fee) -- plus a similar transaction fee.


It is a bit of a process to set up the account (takes about a week), but if you're frequently moving money around, it's definitely worth a look -- and its free.


However, it does only allow you transfers to your own accounts, so you cant pay bills directly.


I'll leave the regulatory discussion to the others and specialize on the execution here ;-)


Thomas M, Apr 4, 2013 @ 20:47
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Re: best way to exchange money
Post 8

Thanks for all the info and suggestions!

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Thanks for all the info and suggestions!


Stephanie L, Apr 4, 2013 @ 21:36
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Re: best way to exchange money
Post 9

I use a small broker every month to transfer my GBP, they'll do $ too, very tight spreads and good service.  www.purefx.co.uk

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I use a small broker every month to transfer my GBP, they'll do $ too, very tight spreads and good service.  www.purefx.co.uk


Matt Kilsby, Apr 12, 2013 @ 22:46
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Re: best way to exchange money
Post 10

I stand by my statement.  Yes, it was a bit of an exaggeration but I would not say that we are welcomed with open arms.  How many banks in CH other than UBS and Postfinance (if you can call them a bank) will accept US persons as new customers?  How many will retain these US persons as customers if they no longer maintain residence in CH?  How many will retain these departing US persons if they have a low balance (say, under $10k)?  I ask because having a few million to deposit opens a lot of doors; 10k not so much.  I'd like to know..


Apr 4, 13 16:02

I agree and have had the same experience. Even for UBS, not all UBS branches accept new U.S. clients; they have to refer them to other UBS offices which can accept them. And even then, the types of accounts or services U.S. clients can obtain are limited.


Once I called Credit Suisse regarding just a simple certificate of time deposit and they said U.S. citizens could not obtain them. This despite the fact they have huge offices in the U.S., but I digress...

The text you are quoting:

I agree and have had the same experience. Even for UBS, not all UBS branches accept new U.S. clients; they have to refer them to other UBS offices which can accept them. And even then, the types of accounts or services U.S. clients can obtain are limited.


Once I called Credit Suisse regarding just a simple certificate of time deposit and they said U.S. citizens could not obtain them. This despite the fact they have huge offices in the U.S., but I digress...


Jason M, Apr 12, 2013 @ 23:40
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Re: best way to exchange money
Post 11

I don't know where he got the idea that only US tax cheats have trouble with overseas banks.  The list of Swiss banks who will accept a US person is very short.

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I don't know where he got the idea that only US tax cheats have trouble with overseas banks.  The list of Swiss banks who will accept a US person is very short.


richardm, Apr 13, 2013 @ 12:40
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