This is only good news. If people don't want to come here, justr don't come. The less that come, the more space space and less shit for those that do want to be here.

If you read the first reply to your question you will know the reason for this decline! 

I don't get the point you are trying to make...

What I see is some expats saying: if you don't come, you are missing out and not Swiss people saying that expats are not welcome...

If you are not willing to admit that there is an attitude problem towards some nationalities whether  from other expats or from nationals then be prepared for more decline. When an expats reply to my comment  “%&ç% you too” then he edit it as this is assault then their is a serious problem in this city. Having said that, I love it and reached the conclusion that if someone is unhappy about my presence it’s their problem not mine. I hope this clarifies my meaning 

As Journalist, I would like to check, if there is really a problem, if expats complain and why, what is worst, waht could be improve and I want to confront it to the authority...

and I look for people who agree to testimony for a report for the news RTS 19.30   

Fair enough.

It wasn't blatant...

Yet...

Hi Philippe,

It is a really good question. I would like to help, but can you give me the source of the figures you cite, so I can access the data and get a better handle on its possible meaning? You can send me a private message if you want to communicate without the distraction of the noise that has been introduced into your thread.

Jorge

Article in Swissinfo.ch

I found and read the study (Expat Insider 2018). I think the reasons are quite clear once you look at all the data regarding all factors considered and how other countries ranked, especially those which have risen in rank.

When you have expats aka migrant workers (contraverical distinction I know) swearing F**k you etc we wonder why people are so unhappy here!!! I’ve been here almost 10 years, happily married to Swiss and can’t complain...for now! 

Personally I’ve seen expats/migrant workers come over for 1 job maybe 2 or 3 tops then move on due to the ever growing competitive job market. The figures seem accurate based on my years here.

I don't know about Switzerland, but if the number of incoming expats into Geneva will drop significantly, this would have a negative impact on all of us. So saying "if they don't want to come, we'll have more for ourselves" is wrong.

Here's why:

A large % of the canton's economy is based on a steady number of expats coming in and then making and spending good money locally + paying good taxes (except those lucky UN folks for the taxes). If that starts to dry up then we won't have more - we'll actualyl have less. 

It's not for simple love of expats that Geneva canton spends so much money each year to try and draw more multinational companies into the region.  

Philippe:

Thanks for posting it. 

The 3 problems that I see expats flag most often about moving to Geneva:

1. The process of intergration into local culture takes longer than in other countries.
Part of this for sure is that it's easy to live an entire life in Geneva while staying in the large expat bubble, but it's not the only reason. 

2. Difficulty with the local infruscture, especially housing & kindergartens. 
It's crazy that Geneva spends so much money and effort to draw exapts in, but the supporting infrastcture doesn't follow. 

3. Un-realistic expectation about daily life. 
Some expats expect Geneva to be a little paradise with super low crime, super easy life, etc. My guess (and it's just a guess) is that expectations are based on general stories the expats hear about Switzerland. Maybe there stories were true for 20 years ago, or for other cantons, but they don't reflect Geneva's current reality. 

Nir

Hello Nir,  would you agree to testimony ? how shoud I contact you?  

Hi Philippe, I'm an expat but I'm here 15+ years, so it's been a looooong time since I had to deal with "just landed in Geneva and need to feel at home" issues.

I think you'll do better interviewing a "fresh" expat...(-;

When do you need the interview for? If you give me a day, I'm pretty sure I can find an expat for you who recently arrived and who's willing to interview. 

Thanks, I need 2-3 people who will express themself on this topic, It could also be the occasion to follow one activity of glocal...I will film if possible the week of the 5th, but it's better that I talk to them on the phone before, I can do it at night or week-end also. BR Philippe 0795701458    

I just sent you a PM

Hello Philippe,

I am willing to be interviewed in English. I came to Geneva just 4 weeks ago to study.

Hello all,

Following yesterday’s posts, I spoke with David and we agreed, by mutual consent, to amicably part ways.

We appreciate David’s contributions to date and we wish him a lot of success.

Out of respect for David, I ask everyone to refrain from posting additional comments about this and I hope we can go back to discussing the interesting info & questions posted by Philippe.

Thanks,

Oded

It's a beautiful place to live,there's no denying.It's quite well organised and the standard of living is pretty good compared to many countries.If you love material comforts,the outdoors,mountain sports etc it must be paradise.

But.....if you are looking for something more,it can be a bit dull.when I first arrived here,full of enthusiasm,it was all wonderful,but as time went by I noticed a general lack of warmth,spontaneity,imagination,and a general abscence of......."zing".As another ex- pat once said to me " where's the oomph?"

After living here for half my life,I can only count one real friend who is Swiss.It is difficult to really make friends here,especially if you don't have children.

Also,it often feels very backward here in terms of women ,and workers' rights.It's still very traditional in many ways ( at least in the French part) and it is often frustrating to see how Swiss people seem content not to rock the boat.

Having said all that,I do feel very lucky to be living here......well,in the summer at least( but definitely not on Sundays in the winter)

I don't think I would recommend Switzerland as a place to migrate to,unless you want a really quiet life......and lots of hiking 

I have also noticed how many of my friends who work here are,as Philippe quoted, working so much that they seem to have less and less time for their own activities.And the tendency seems to be for more and more pressure to be put on them at work.I hear the phrase " burn out" used very often these days here and it does not surprise me.But I don't know if it is worse here than in other countries in Europe.

In the report The Best & Worst Places for Expats in 2018 linked by Casuistik above, Switzerland is at the 19th place over 25 European countries. That's pretty low.

I think, too, this comes a lot from Switzerland's reputation of being a paradise, so expats are very disappointed when they discover the truth. Let's face it, Switzerland is a nice place to live but, having lived here almost a decade, I can say situation has degraded a lot (at least in Geneva, can't say in the rest of CH). Violence and incivility are on par with the average EU city -- if not higher; purchasing power has dropped; and on some topics (for instance housing or women's rights) you'd think to be living in a third-world country.

Sometimes I think that in some aspects Geneva more and more resembles a city of Southern Italy... just without the sun, the sea, the good food and the nice people.

Another important point IMHO is the xenophobic and anti-EU sentiment which historically has always been strong in CH, which doesn't make immigrants feel welcome here.

Thanks for your answer, will be back next week in Switzerland. would you aggree to testimony. How should I contact you BR Philippe  

Thanks for your answer, will be back next week in Switzerland. would you agree to testimony. How should I contact you BR Philippe  

Thanks do you have any point of view of the questions... could you precise your thinking ? 

I think a point from the original article is missed:

[...] their jobs in general (19%) as well as working hours, work-life balance, and job security (all 21%). Slightly more than a quarter (26%) say that they are unhappy about their career prospects in Switzerland [...]

Those insatisfactions are aimed (mostly) at the companies hiring those expacts, not quite at Switzerland as a place to live. Last summer Nespresso here in Lausanne fired 500 IT persons, that creates quite an atmosphere, especially when you consider that the job market for the fired employees is pretty small (highly skilled, sometimes in a very narrow domain, sometimes not speaking any national language... so basically only can hope for a job at another multinational company).

About decreasing purchasing power and housing issues in Geneva, I have the impression they were caused or at least worsened by the flow of expats coming with high purchasing power & throwing money without much considerations (appartment hunters, renting places at x1.5 market prices...), so compaling about it does not seem quite fair to me.

I guess we fit into the mould being discussed here so a few cents worth from a expat couple who arrived here a few months back. 

We are an international couple who have lived in a few countries now including asia and Australia to find Swiss / Geneva life organised, quiet and peaceful and of course beautiful amongst other things. It does however lack some things I miss from other places: a strong sense of community - It feels on the outset as a place that gives off an international/transient feel, an ardent following of rules ('no fun please') and language barriers, along with limited and very expensive food and entertainment scene, these all contribute to small barriers in limiting cultural and community feel. Furthermore, integration of all classes of community members is also a big factor in city planning now, which is enhanced by relaxing some of the above but also careful town planning, gentrification etc. Im not sure this is an easy solve, but worth noting.  

Regarding work, it does appear some years behind here in key elements (most likely due to the more conservative backdrop here). Corporate dress rules still need relaxing, whilst workplace flexibility e.g working from home etc needs to improve. It still 'feels' like a place where a woman stays home to tend to the children. 

However on the work life balance and employers of choice I would observe that it appears better than many places (we have recently spent time in Hong Kong). Employers here seem to give off a sense that wokring long term with them is rewarding and will be looked after. 

Finally transportation is of course an apparent an issue in Geneva, given the geographic limitations. Many places now are pushing/promoting alternate methods of transport to an from work, which will boost the city/countrys appeal as a place to not be in a log jam, but on a bike in a well planned cycling journey from home to work, with modern facilities at work to mange this. 

Some initial thoughts, I hope this helps.

This discussion reminded me so much of this : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FeBHr5TJ6K4 

...and produced by the national broadcaster. Actually the video is pretty funny, but can you imagine if a major broadcaster made a video like this in the US, UK, Australia etc. I mean it's pretty racist.

Someone would lose their job.

... I am still waiting for the cool Swiss people to knock on my door with a bottle of wine ;-)

As the video segregates both a nationality and a social class (ie., high-standard of living individuals), I wouldn't quite call it racist.

But indeed, Switzerland is based on a different immigration model, where you should exactly fit the national model, which is not quite foreigners friendly (try to get the nationality... here in Lausanne, some even had inspectors coming to check their fridge). That look a little bit the opposite of having many international people around.

As a Swiss citizen I need to give my opinion about this post. I am member of several social communities for expats, and I have noticed that the key point is willingness for integration. With 40% of foreigners, it is easy for a foreigner to stay in his expat bubble, with little motivation to get involved in this odd culture so different from your home country.

If you are here in Swizterland, it's likely for professional reasons, because your salary is far higher than in your country. Making an effort for integrating in the local community is maybe not your main objective, as you know that sooner or later you will go back to your home country with your pockets filled with CHF.

However, compared to other countries, Switzerland performs very well, according to Best Countries Report 2018:

https://www.usnews.com/info/blogs/press-room/articles/2018-01-23/switzerland-is-the-best-country-in-the-world-says-2018-best-countries-report

Maybe the point is more about dissatisfaction for expats in Geneva rather than in Switzerland, but this is maybe because Geneva is a small city not offering all those services expected by an expat who lived before in a large city...

Just be a little patient, Sean, ’cos everything comes to him who waits (and don’t forget to let us know when it does!).

Ingo,bear in mind that not all of us fit the description you give.I was married to an Italian who was born here.He,as second generation Italian,also found it hard to be part of the community,even though he had lived here all his life.

I didn't come here to make money and I am not one of those who has pockets filled with CHF - far from it.

Some of us have low incomes.Maybe it's worse for us as we don't even  the material comforts to mitigate the lack of " oomph" I referred to above :-)

I must say though,from what I have observed,the people I know here who do seem to have high salaries seem to like living here,partly because they enjoy a lot of material comforts ,and those things are important for them.Then again,money isn't everything....

The video about Shane and whatshername that Martin posted is a bit over the top BUT....it contains some real little kernels of truth that I am sure many will instantly recognise.Very well observed !

I don't have scientific data, but my feeling is that the average work hours in Geneva (and probably CH as a whole) are less than in many other business-oriented cities. 

The overall local culture is to leave the office at normal hours, to not work weekends, and to respect private time. Most multinationals who move into CH bring with them a different culture, but the local culture makes its way into the Multinationals as well.

Compare that to London or NY, where the overall culture is to work 24/7, and it's a different story. 

(Of course there's a lot of exceptions and people who work like crazy in Geneva, but I'm refering to an overall average)

it's in the mail, together with your cheque

Actually,now I think about it,the couple in that YouTube video above are one of the reasons I found it so dull here when I first arrived......what's on offer here might tend to attract the kind of people that couple represent! So maybe the problems are partly to do with the atmosphere ( or lack of) in the country itself,but also partly to do with the kind of people who are drawn to working for rich multinational companies here,with all the benefits of high salaries and very high standard of living....and all the dullness and conformity that these imply :-)