Sindy & GoL: what is SAME
- Both were set up for 1 concept: "friendly people meeting & helping other friendly people"
- Both were set up by the same group of folks (who all have full day-time jobs)
- Both are not sponsored by any 3rd party, and rely on their own activities to cover their finance.
Sindy & GoL: what is DIFFERENT
We decided to separate Sindy and GoL for these 2 key reasons:
1. Offering Geneva people a choice of how much effort and how many benefits they want to get out of Sindy/GoL.
Some people are willing to put more efforts than others to meet and help other friendly people. With Sindy and GoL, people get the choice. Sindy works well with low effort from its members, as Sindy events are organized by us (the Sindy Gang) and members just show up and enjoy...GoL works well only if its members put more effort into it, as it's a real community in
which most events/activities/info come from the members and NOT from us. Every person now has the choice - out in lower efforts (Sindy) or higher efforts (GoL).
2. Different activities & age group.
Sindy has become associated mainly with big friendly parties for ages 25-35. This is great, and it will stay this way. GoL is an online community aiming at varied activities (parties being the minor ones), and a 25-45 age group. ;
We hope the choice to create Sindy and GoL as 2 seperate things was right, and we'll keep both of them running fast. We'd love to hear what you think.
The text you are quoting:
Many GoLers asked us to clarify the relationship between Sindy.ch and GoL, so here goes. We'd love to hear your feedback.
Sindy & GoL: what is SAME
Sindy & GoL: what is DIFFERENT
We decided to separate Sindy and GoL for these 2 key reasons:
1. Offering Geneva people a choice of how much effort and how many benefits they want to get out of Sindy/GoL.
Some people are willing to put more efforts than others to meet and help other friendly people. With Sindy and GoL, people get the choice. Sindy works well with low effort from its members, as Sindy events are organized by us (the Sindy Gang) and members just show up and enjoy...GoL works well only if its members put more effort into it, as it's a real community in
which most events/activities/info come from the members and NOT from us. Every person now has the choice - out in lower efforts (Sindy) or higher efforts (GoL).
2. Different activities & age group.
Sindy has become associated mainly with big friendly parties for ages 25-35. This is great, and it will stay this way. GoL is an online community aiming at varied activities (parties being the minor ones), and a 25-45 age group. ;
We hope the choice to create Sindy and GoL as 2 seperate things was right, and we'll keep both of them running fast. We'd love to hear what you think.
Nir OfekMay 9, 2006 @ 13:10
Sindy & GoL: what is SAME
- Both were set up for 1 concept: "friendly people meeting & helping other friendly people"
- Both were set up by the same group of folks (who all have full day-time jobs)
- Both are not sponsored by any 3rd party, and rely on their own activities to cover their finance.
Sindy & GoL: what is DIFFERENT
We decided to separate Sindy and GoL for these 2 key reasons:
1. Offering Geneva people a choice of how much effort and how many benefits they want to get out of Sindy/GoL.
Some people are willing to put more efforts than others to meet and help other friendly people. With Sindy and GoL, people get the choice. Sindy works well with low effort from its members, as Sindy events are organized by us (the Sindy Gang) and members just show up and enjoy...GoL works well only if its members put more effort into it, as it's a real community in
which most events/activities/info come from the members and NOT from us. Every person now has the choice - out in lower efforts (Sindy) or higher efforts (GoL).
2. Different activities & age group.
Sindy has become associated mainly with big friendly parties for ages 25-35. This is great, and it will stay this way. GoL is an online community aiming at varied activities (parties being the minor ones), and a 25-45 age group. ;
We hope the choice to create Sindy and GoL as 2 seperate things was right, and we'll keep both of them running fast. We'd love to hear what you think.
Nir OfekMay 9, 2006 @ 13:10
Your Reply:
Only members can see names and photos
Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 1
May 9, 2006 @ 15:07
As I have already told you in one of the many emails we have exchanged, for me, a community is self driven. Initiatives come from the people. Decisions are made democratically. Leaders are elected. Money is managed openly and accounting is made public. "Non profit" or "business related" status have to be clearly defined. Conflicts of interest, long term development plans and strategic decision are discussed openly or within appropriate committees.
Knowing that (based on the messages you sent me and public info) :
- you have been and are "always looking" for a business model that could make GOL profitable
- you "personally suggested to GoL members who do regular events (VeroB & David, Sherri, etc) that they ask venue owners for a symbolic cut of the revenue to cover their own energy / time involved in doing regular events"
And given the fact that you didn't want to "take more of your () time" on answering the following questions:
- did you receive money from State Geneva to support any of those programs, as I've been told ?
- have the initial cost of launching GOL been covered by the profit of the several parties organised since, as many believe ?
- if so, is the use of volunteers a way to lower cost of parties and improve parties profitability ?
- given the fact that your personal plans do include being a partner in a new place that will open in Sep, what is GOL policy going to be regarding events getting organised in other places than yours and feedbacks about pubs in general ?
- why did you try to hide the fact that members who did regular events got some money from venue owners ?
- could GOL future business model include getting money from companies that are suggested in the Where and How forum ?
Can we really say GOL is a community, more than partially ?
As I try not to judge people or projects without complete information, I can't give you a valuable opinion. But, until further explanations, my feeling is that:
A/ Sindy is a profitable big events organisation business
B/ GOL is a multilevel project having various features
- a forum where expats and locals can meet, get answers and organise events
- an appropriate tool to advertise and organise less big parties than "oversized" Sindy parties
- a community of potential customers (internationally oriented wealthy 25-35) potentially very valuable to sell as targeted audience. A community that is not (always) aware of being seen as such.
You might have got it by now, I have un uncomfortable feeling about this layered GOL cake. In Switzerland, people usually don't mix friendship and business. Mixing them is seen as highly dangerous, vicious or at least suspicious. I do know that it is cultural. I don't mind mixing both as such. I just like rules being clear. And, up to know, they still aren't to me.
So my feedback is: if you want the GOL / Sindy differences clear, make the points above clear too.
Hope this helps,
Xavier
Knowing that (based on the messages you sent me and public info) :
- you have been and are "always looking" for a business model that could make GOL profitable
- you "personally suggested to GoL members who do regular events (VeroB & David, Sherri, etc) that they ask venue owners for a symbolic cut of the revenue to cover their own energy / time involved in doing regular events"
And given the fact that you didn't want to "take more of your () time" on answering the following questions:
- did you receive money from State Geneva to support any of those programs, as I've been told ?
- have the initial cost of launching GOL been covered by the profit of the several parties organised since, as many believe ?
- if so, is the use of volunteers a way to lower cost of parties and improve parties profitability ?
- given the fact that your personal plans do include being a partner in a new place that will open in Sep, what is GOL policy going to be regarding events getting organised in other places than yours and feedbacks about pubs in general ?
- why did you try to hide the fact that members who did regular events got some money from venue owners ?
- could GOL future business model include getting money from companies that are suggested in the Where and How forum ?
Can we really say GOL is a community, more than partially ?
As I try not to judge people or projects without complete information, I can't give you a valuable opinion. But, until further explanations, my feeling is that:
A/ Sindy is a profitable big events organisation business
B/ GOL is a multilevel project having various features
- a forum where expats and locals can meet, get answers and organise events
- an appropriate tool to advertise and organise less big parties than "oversized" Sindy parties
- a community of potential customers (internationally oriented wealthy 25-35) potentially very valuable to sell as targeted audience. A community that is not (always) aware of being seen as such.
You might have got it by now, I have un uncomfortable feeling about this layered GOL cake. In Switzerland, people usually don't mix friendship and business. Mixing them is seen as highly dangerous, vicious or at least suspicious. I do know that it is cultural. I don't mind mixing both as such. I just like rules being clear. And, up to know, they still aren't to me.
So my feedback is: if you want the GOL / Sindy differences clear, make the points above clear too.
Hope this helps,
Xavier
The text you are quoting:
As I have already told you in one of the many emails we have exchanged, for me, a community is self driven. Initiatives come from the people. Decisions are made democratically. Leaders are elected. Money is managed openly and accounting is made public. "Non profit" or "business related" status have to be clearly defined. Conflicts of interest, long term development plans and strategic decision are discussed openly or within appropriate committees.
Knowing that (based on the messages you sent me and public info) :
- you have been and are "always looking" for a business model that could make GOL profitable
- you "personally suggested to GoL members who do regular events (VeroB & David, Sherri, etc) that they ask venue owners for a symbolic cut of the revenue to cover their own energy / time involved in doing regular events"
And given the fact that you didn't want to "take more of your () time" on answering the following questions:
- did you receive money from State Geneva to support any of those programs, as I've been told ?
- have the initial cost of launching GOL been covered by the profit of the several parties organised since, as many believe ?
- if so, is the use of volunteers a way to lower cost of parties and improve parties profitability ?
- given the fact that your personal plans do include being a partner in a new place that will open in Sep, what is GOL policy going to be regarding events getting organised in other places than yours and feedbacks about pubs in general ?
- why did you try to hide the fact that members who did regular events got some money from venue owners ?
- could GOL future business model include getting money from companies that are suggested in the Where and How forum ?
Can we really say GOL is a community, more than partially ?
As I try not to judge people or projects without complete information, I can't give you a valuable opinion. But, until further explanations, my feeling is that:
A/ Sindy is a profitable big events organisation business
B/ GOL is a multilevel project having various features
- a forum where expats and locals can meet, get answers and organise events
- an appropriate tool to advertise and organise less big parties than "oversized" Sindy parties
- a community of potential customers (internationally oriented wealthy 25-35) potentially very valuable to sell as targeted audience. A community that is not (always) aware of being seen as such.
You might have got it by now, I have un uncomfortable feeling about this layered GOL cake. In Switzerland, people usually don't mix friendship and business. Mixing them is seen as highly dangerous, vicious or at least suspicious. I do know that it is cultural. I don't mind mixing both as such. I just like rules being clear. And, up to know, they still aren't to me.
So my feedback is: if you want the GOL / Sindy differences clear, make the points above clear too.
Hope this helps,
Xavier
Hobbes, May 9, 2006 @ 15:07
Knowing that (based on the messages you sent me and public info) :
- you have been and are "always looking" for a business model that could make GOL profitable
- you "personally suggested to GoL members who do regular events (VeroB & David, Sherri, etc) that they ask venue owners for a symbolic cut of the revenue to cover their own energy / time involved in doing regular events"
And given the fact that you didn't want to "take more of your () time" on answering the following questions:
- did you receive money from State Geneva to support any of those programs, as I've been told ?
- have the initial cost of launching GOL been covered by the profit of the several parties organised since, as many believe ?
- if so, is the use of volunteers a way to lower cost of parties and improve parties profitability ?
- given the fact that your personal plans do include being a partner in a new place that will open in Sep, what is GOL policy going to be regarding events getting organised in other places than yours and feedbacks about pubs in general ?
- why did you try to hide the fact that members who did regular events got some money from venue owners ?
- could GOL future business model include getting money from companies that are suggested in the Where and How forum ?
Can we really say GOL is a community, more than partially ?
As I try not to judge people or projects without complete information, I can't give you a valuable opinion. But, until further explanations, my feeling is that:
A/ Sindy is a profitable big events organisation business
B/ GOL is a multilevel project having various features
- a forum where expats and locals can meet, get answers and organise events
- an appropriate tool to advertise and organise less big parties than "oversized" Sindy parties
- a community of potential customers (internationally oriented wealthy 25-35) potentially very valuable to sell as targeted audience. A community that is not (always) aware of being seen as such.
You might have got it by now, I have un uncomfortable feeling about this layered GOL cake. In Switzerland, people usually don't mix friendship and business. Mixing them is seen as highly dangerous, vicious or at least suspicious. I do know that it is cultural. I don't mind mixing both as such. I just like rules being clear. And, up to know, they still aren't to me.
So my feedback is: if you want the GOL / Sindy differences clear, make the points above clear too.
Hope this helps,
Xavier
Hobbes, May 9, 2006 @ 15:07
Your Reply:
Only members can see names and photos
Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 2
May 10, 2006 @ 13:52
...As for the Sindy – GOL split that Nir posted, here are my thoughts:
I agree that it’s a good idea to pull them apart for the reasons stated in Nir’s post. I also think that the way the split was done is correct. That split needs to be made complete, though, to avoid confusion in the future. For example:
- is GOL still “Sindy’s free online community”? Or is it now Geneva’s free online community?
- is it still GenevaOnline.ch “by sindy.ch”? Or just GenevaOnline.ch?
- is it still the Sindy gang running GOL? Or is it the GOL gang?
- separate email lists and no emails that put both together (ie, no “here’s your weekly Sindy and GOL email” unless that person is on both lists)
By making small changes like this, future members will be able to avoid the "what's the difference between Sindy and GOL" question! You can tell that I’m a nitpicker in this kind of thing. Blame the brand management side of me.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with letting people know that Sindy and GOL are run by the same people. However, I think that needs to be done via a clear "who we are and what we do" statement that people get emailed to them when they sign up. This will make things more clear to new members and let them know what all of their options are.
I agree that it’s a good idea to pull them apart for the reasons stated in Nir’s post. I also think that the way the split was done is correct. That split needs to be made complete, though, to avoid confusion in the future. For example:
- is GOL still “Sindy’s free online community”? Or is it now Geneva’s free online community?
- is it still GenevaOnline.ch “by sindy.ch”? Or just GenevaOnline.ch?
- is it still the Sindy gang running GOL? Or is it the GOL gang?
- separate email lists and no emails that put both together (ie, no “here’s your weekly Sindy and GOL email” unless that person is on both lists)
By making small changes like this, future members will be able to avoid the "what's the difference between Sindy and GOL" question! You can tell that I’m a nitpicker in this kind of thing. Blame the brand management side of me.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with letting people know that Sindy and GOL are run by the same people. However, I think that needs to be done via a clear "who we are and what we do" statement that people get emailed to them when they sign up. This will make things more clear to new members and let them know what all of their options are.
The text you are quoting:
...As for the Sindy – GOL split that Nir posted, here are my thoughts:
I agree that it’s a good idea to pull them apart for the reasons stated in Nir’s post. I also think that the way the split was done is correct. That split needs to be made complete, though, to avoid confusion in the future. For example:
- is GOL still “Sindy’s free online community”? Or is it now Geneva’s free online community?
- is it still GenevaOnline.ch “by sindy.ch”? Or just GenevaOnline.ch?
- is it still the Sindy gang running GOL? Or is it the GOL gang?
- separate email lists and no emails that put both together (ie, no “here’s your weekly Sindy and GOL email” unless that person is on both lists)
By making small changes like this, future members will be able to avoid the "what's the difference between Sindy and GOL" question! You can tell that I’m a nitpicker in this kind of thing. Blame the brand management side of me.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with letting people know that Sindy and GOL are run by the same people. However, I think that needs to be done via a clear "who we are and what we do" statement that people get emailed to them when they sign up. This will make things more clear to new members and let them know what all of their options are.
tiffany, May 10, 2006 @ 13:52
I agree that it’s a good idea to pull them apart for the reasons stated in Nir’s post. I also think that the way the split was done is correct. That split needs to be made complete, though, to avoid confusion in the future. For example:
- is GOL still “Sindy’s free online community”? Or is it now Geneva’s free online community?
- is it still GenevaOnline.ch “by sindy.ch”? Or just GenevaOnline.ch?
- is it still the Sindy gang running GOL? Or is it the GOL gang?
- separate email lists and no emails that put both together (ie, no “here’s your weekly Sindy and GOL email” unless that person is on both lists)
By making small changes like this, future members will be able to avoid the "what's the difference between Sindy and GOL" question! You can tell that I’m a nitpicker in this kind of thing. Blame the brand management side of me.
That said, I don't think there's anything wrong with letting people know that Sindy and GOL are run by the same people. However, I think that needs to be done via a clear "who we are and what we do" statement that people get emailed to them when they sign up. This will make things more clear to new members and let them know what all of their options are.
tiffany, May 10, 2006 @ 13:52
Your Reply:
Only members can see names and photos
Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 3
May 10, 2006 @ 18:43
Your questions make sense to me
Only members can see names and photos
Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 4
May 10, 2006 @ 21:24
I want to take a minute to clarify key things. I'll start with a quick background, and then address some of the valid points Hobbes raises.
1. We welcome questions about the community, as long as the discussion is constructive and aimed at moving forward.
2. We find it un-acceptable for members to use the forums to personally insult other members (even if this is done to supposedly 'help the community'), or to spread / create rumors. Personal grievances are just that – personal – and should be addressed one-on-one, rather than aired to a community of 3700 people.
3. Hobbes' posts strongly imply that I avoided answering his questions and that I want to hide things. To put things clear: Hobbes mailed me a long personal letter, asking me to comment on GoL-related rumors & questions (including some amazing stuff such as 'that GoL is actually a P&G initiative to get P&Gers to mate'). I took Hobbes' note seriously, and replied with an equally long, fact-by-fact, reply. I then received back another 3 pager from Hobbes that implied I am hiding things, and twisting my answers into a further series of accusing questions. At this point (and by now Hobbes and I had exchanged nearly 10 full detailed pages...), I judged that the facts are clear, and that the discussion with Hobbes is no longer niether productive nor aimed at moving forward. I informed Hobbes I am no longer engaging with him, and why. I also asked him to feel free to post our full Emails on the forums (on the same condition he suggested - that such Emails are published in full and not in parts to be taken out of context...).
4. In any case, I want to again address Hobbes' key points, below. We will also shortly post a full thread dedicated to "GoL's Future Plans" on this forum.
- GoL is a private, self-financed initiative. It is not supported by P&G, or the State of Geneva, or any other body. We tried to get set up funding from several sources (Government Agencies, Private Businesses) but were not successful. So we funded GoL out of our own pocket. We launched GoL without a business model behind it, assuming that if GoL was successful, we would find a way to cover costs later on.
- GoL members (and GoL itself) do not get any money or compensation for any posts made in the forums or on any other GoL section.
- All Member Activities are organized by members on a voluntary basis. At some point I suggested to members who do regular / weekly events to negotiate a fee from venue owners, to cover members’ cost/energy. Shortly after, we realized this was not a good idea, and asked members to stop it. This happened 2 months ago, and has been discussed to death several times with the key folks involved.
- We are looking for a business model that will allow us to keep developing GoL. Models we're currently exploring are based on Advertising, Sponsorships, & Partnerships. If we crack a model, we will inform the full community in an open, honest way. If you take a look at the "About" section of the site, you'll see this information is readily available for the past 6 months.
That's it. I hope we can all put more energy into making the community better, and less into trying to prove there is a conspiracy here.
Nir
1. We welcome questions about the community, as long as the discussion is constructive and aimed at moving forward.
2. We find it un-acceptable for members to use the forums to personally insult other members (even if this is done to supposedly 'help the community'), or to spread / create rumors. Personal grievances are just that – personal – and should be addressed one-on-one, rather than aired to a community of 3700 people.
3. Hobbes' posts strongly imply that I avoided answering his questions and that I want to hide things. To put things clear: Hobbes mailed me a long personal letter, asking me to comment on GoL-related rumors & questions (including some amazing stuff such as 'that GoL is actually a P&G initiative to get P&Gers to mate'). I took Hobbes' note seriously, and replied with an equally long, fact-by-fact, reply. I then received back another 3 pager from Hobbes that implied I am hiding things, and twisting my answers into a further series of accusing questions. At this point (and by now Hobbes and I had exchanged nearly 10 full detailed pages...), I judged that the facts are clear, and that the discussion with Hobbes is no longer niether productive nor aimed at moving forward. I informed Hobbes I am no longer engaging with him, and why. I also asked him to feel free to post our full Emails on the forums (on the same condition he suggested - that such Emails are published in full and not in parts to be taken out of context...).
4. In any case, I want to again address Hobbes' key points, below. We will also shortly post a full thread dedicated to "GoL's Future Plans" on this forum.
- GoL is a private, self-financed initiative. It is not supported by P&G, or the State of Geneva, or any other body. We tried to get set up funding from several sources (Government Agencies, Private Businesses) but were not successful. So we funded GoL out of our own pocket. We launched GoL without a business model behind it, assuming that if GoL was successful, we would find a way to cover costs later on.
- GoL members (and GoL itself) do not get any money or compensation for any posts made in the forums or on any other GoL section.
- All Member Activities are organized by members on a voluntary basis. At some point I suggested to members who do regular / weekly events to negotiate a fee from venue owners, to cover members’ cost/energy. Shortly after, we realized this was not a good idea, and asked members to stop it. This happened 2 months ago, and has been discussed to death several times with the key folks involved.
- We are looking for a business model that will allow us to keep developing GoL. Models we're currently exploring are based on Advertising, Sponsorships, & Partnerships. If we crack a model, we will inform the full community in an open, honest way. If you take a look at the "About" section of the site, you'll see this information is readily available for the past 6 months.
That's it. I hope we can all put more energy into making the community better, and less into trying to prove there is a conspiracy here.
Nir
The text you are quoting:
I want to take a minute to clarify key things. I'll start with a quick background, and then address some of the valid points Hobbes raises.
1. We welcome questions about the community, as long as the discussion is constructive and aimed at moving forward.
2. We find it un-acceptable for members to use the forums to personally insult other members (even if this is done to supposedly 'help the community'), or to spread / create rumors. Personal grievances are just that – personal – and should be addressed one-on-one, rather than aired to a community of 3700 people.
3. Hobbes' posts strongly imply that I avoided answering his questions and that I want to hide things. To put things clear: Hobbes mailed me a long personal letter, asking me to comment on GoL-related rumors & questions (including some amazing stuff such as 'that GoL is actually a P&G initiative to get P&Gers to mate'). I took Hobbes' note seriously, and replied with an equally long, fact-by-fact, reply. I then received back another 3 pager from Hobbes that implied I am hiding things, and twisting my answers into a further series of accusing questions. At this point (and by now Hobbes and I had exchanged nearly 10 full detailed pages...), I judged that the facts are clear, and that the discussion with Hobbes is no longer niether productive nor aimed at moving forward. I informed Hobbes I am no longer engaging with him, and why. I also asked him to feel free to post our full Emails on the forums (on the same condition he suggested - that such Emails are published in full and not in parts to be taken out of context...).
4. In any case, I want to again address Hobbes' key points, below. We will also shortly post a full thread dedicated to "GoL's Future Plans" on this forum.
- GoL is a private, self-financed initiative. It is not supported by P&G, or the State of Geneva, or any other body. We tried to get set up funding from several sources (Government Agencies, Private Businesses) but were not successful. So we funded GoL out of our own pocket. We launched GoL without a business model behind it, assuming that if GoL was successful, we would find a way to cover costs later on.
- GoL members (and GoL itself) do not get any money or compensation for any posts made in the forums or on any other GoL section.
- All Member Activities are organized by members on a voluntary basis. At some point I suggested to members who do regular / weekly events to negotiate a fee from venue owners, to cover members’ cost/energy. Shortly after, we realized this was not a good idea, and asked members to stop it. This happened 2 months ago, and has been discussed to death several times with the key folks involved.
- We are looking for a business model that will allow us to keep developing GoL. Models we're currently exploring are based on Advertising, Sponsorships, & Partnerships. If we crack a model, we will inform the full community in an open, honest way. If you take a look at the "About" section of the site, you'll see this information is readily available for the past 6 months.
That's it. I hope we can all put more energy into making the community better, and less into trying to prove there is a conspiracy here.
Nir
Nir Ofek, May 10, 2006 @ 21:24
1. We welcome questions about the community, as long as the discussion is constructive and aimed at moving forward.
2. We find it un-acceptable for members to use the forums to personally insult other members (even if this is done to supposedly 'help the community'), or to spread / create rumors. Personal grievances are just that – personal – and should be addressed one-on-one, rather than aired to a community of 3700 people.
3. Hobbes' posts strongly imply that I avoided answering his questions and that I want to hide things. To put things clear: Hobbes mailed me a long personal letter, asking me to comment on GoL-related rumors & questions (including some amazing stuff such as 'that GoL is actually a P&G initiative to get P&Gers to mate'). I took Hobbes' note seriously, and replied with an equally long, fact-by-fact, reply. I then received back another 3 pager from Hobbes that implied I am hiding things, and twisting my answers into a further series of accusing questions. At this point (and by now Hobbes and I had exchanged nearly 10 full detailed pages...), I judged that the facts are clear, and that the discussion with Hobbes is no longer niether productive nor aimed at moving forward. I informed Hobbes I am no longer engaging with him, and why. I also asked him to feel free to post our full Emails on the forums (on the same condition he suggested - that such Emails are published in full and not in parts to be taken out of context...).
4. In any case, I want to again address Hobbes' key points, below. We will also shortly post a full thread dedicated to "GoL's Future Plans" on this forum.
- GoL is a private, self-financed initiative. It is not supported by P&G, or the State of Geneva, or any other body. We tried to get set up funding from several sources (Government Agencies, Private Businesses) but were not successful. So we funded GoL out of our own pocket. We launched GoL without a business model behind it, assuming that if GoL was successful, we would find a way to cover costs later on.
- GoL members (and GoL itself) do not get any money or compensation for any posts made in the forums or on any other GoL section.
- All Member Activities are organized by members on a voluntary basis. At some point I suggested to members who do regular / weekly events to negotiate a fee from venue owners, to cover members’ cost/energy. Shortly after, we realized this was not a good idea, and asked members to stop it. This happened 2 months ago, and has been discussed to death several times with the key folks involved.
- We are looking for a business model that will allow us to keep developing GoL. Models we're currently exploring are based on Advertising, Sponsorships, & Partnerships. If we crack a model, we will inform the full community in an open, honest way. If you take a look at the "About" section of the site, you'll see this information is readily available for the past 6 months.
That's it. I hope we can all put more energy into making the community better, and less into trying to prove there is a conspiracy here.
Nir
Nir Ofek, May 10, 2006 @ 21:24
Your Reply:
Only members can see names and photos
Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 5
May 10, 2006 @ 21:27
We're now thinking of how to do 2 things:
- gather together all the info that members may find useful to understand 'GoL vs Sindy'. I hope this thread will get back to that soon...(-:
- identify the best way to communicate this to members. Don't know if including it in the 'about' sections of both sites is enough, or if to go for Emails to people, or find another way. More ideas here also welcome...
Nir
- gather together all the info that members may find useful to understand 'GoL vs Sindy'. I hope this thread will get back to that soon...(-:
- identify the best way to communicate this to members. Don't know if including it in the 'about' sections of both sites is enough, or if to go for Emails to people, or find another way. More ideas here also welcome...
Nir
The text you are quoting:
We're now thinking of how to do 2 things:
- gather together all the info that members may find useful to understand 'GoL vs Sindy'. I hope this thread will get back to that soon...(-:
- identify the best way to communicate this to members. Don't know if including it in the 'about' sections of both sites is enough, or if to go for Emails to people, or find another way. More ideas here also welcome...
Nir
Nir Ofek, May 10, 2006 @ 21:27
- gather together all the info that members may find useful to understand 'GoL vs Sindy'. I hope this thread will get back to that soon...(-:
- identify the best way to communicate this to members. Don't know if including it in the 'about' sections of both sites is enough, or if to go for Emails to people, or find another way. More ideas here also welcome...
Nir
Nir Ofek, May 10, 2006 @ 21:27
Your Reply:
Only members can see names and photos
Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 6
May 10, 2006 @ 21:49
*********************************************
On 05/04./2006 Oded wrote
Hey Hobbes.
I saw all your posts and I would like to help ease your mind.
What exactly do you want to know about Sindy/GoL Commercial/Non Commercial?
Please send me your questions and Ill try to answer as honestly as I can because I see this is really bothering you.
Thanks
Oded"
*********************************************
On 4/5/06, Xavier wrote:
Hi Oded,
Thanks for you message and offer, I do really appreciate it.
Let's make some things clear from the start:
- I hope I'll be able to be clear in my questions without sounding aggressive, rude or impolite in any way. Please tell me if anything is still unclear or if you feel uneasy with anything I'm saying.
- I do appreciate GOL, and I think you know it. I use it and like it as it is. I'm helping it whenever I can to help you guys make it even better. I have no intentions of doing GOL, Sindy or whoever else any harm
But I'm afraid we possibly have a cultural clash and / or misunderstanding between you organisers and me. In Switzerland, people usually don't mix friendship and business. Mixing them is seen as highly dangerous, vicious or at least suspicious. I do know that it is cultural, and I have lived fine in countries where mixing both is common practice. I just like rules being clear.
Some history:
I first joined GOL only to be able to attend a GOL members only salsa class some friends were attending. I was at that time active in organising events for expapts on Swissfriends. I liked the people I meat at the course, and decided to join some more salsa events, getting more active on the forum at the same time. Xmas party was the first ever GOL party I could attend. I volunteered to be nice and save me the entrance fee. I really enjoyed my job of welcoming people, being amongst the Santa and the party as such. All was nice and cool.
I attended the massage course, and got to know Iolly and Nir better. We had a nice dinner all of us together, which was very friendly and enjoyable. So far, so good. I volunteered for the 1000's members party and enjoyed it too. GOL was the best party organising bunch I had ever met. All cool. I organised fondue courses dinners at my place, Uno game nights, car sharing for concerts in Lausanne, drinks in jazz cafes, children activities afternoons, etc. I invited people to join GOL, chated with a few new comers (of any gender and age) and specifically helped one of them. All very cool and self rewarding, as I said.
Then came the rumours, nasty talks and some personal experiences. Gossips included
- Nir's making more money out of Sindy than he's making out of his regular P&G job
- GOL is a secret P&G project to make sure P&Gers mate with each others and stick to Geneva and the Company
- Nir's using GOL to get a reputation, make up a critical mass of consumers and banch mark a sample of them before launching a private business, may it be a club, restaurant, relocation agency or whatever else.
- Sherry's blackmailed the pub owners to get paid / is secretly paid by GOL to get the NMDs organized / will get a job in soon apening Nir's pub
- She rejected some application to help her having the NMDs because she didn't like the persons, feared they would spill the word or for some other reasons
- GOL gets money anytime people are organising events in "affiliated" clubs, bars, etc
- Nir is going to open a pub in September
- The places listed in the "How to" forum give GOL money
- Nir is spying on other profit driven party organisation teams for ideas, and copy them
- Some people are harassed by Nir to get some activities organised more often, in different places or under different conditions
I personally experienced the following:
- several member activities being moved "by mistake" to events
- censorship on the forum
- I invited Nir to come for a friendly dinner and a brainstorm at my place with 6 people. I found myself with 12 other persons in my living room facing Nir having a taped consumer bootcamp session, and asking me to sign a non discloser agreement. All persons present rejected the idea of the "house of good will" and asked for clarification about GOL being business driven or not. Some weeks later, a survey comes out including the house of good will and business related topics
- gave several time advice to Nir about goodies, saying I'de love to be implied in the project, and never was
All of that, I must say, is fine, as such. But to me, what I see just clashes too much with the official "member's driven" and "non profit" titles not to see an issue.
I do NOT care if anybody is having agendas on making profit out of GOL. I do NOT mind anyone having a business at all. For instance, I do attend KrazyLin's parties and do really enjoy them. He's making money out of them and say it. However, I'd gladly work / volunteer for him in exchange of free entrance if he asked me to. I honestly think that, given all the money and efforts you have invested in it, you would be fools, insane parties' addicts or saints not willing to get some money back at some stage. And I don't believe you are any of those.
What I would NOT like, and I said it to Nir already, would be volunteering for an organisation that pretends being non profit and is not. Being expected to follow some humanitarian values and pushed to help others by people taking advantage of my good will and others ones. Getting involved in an organisation that has a high level secrecy, hidden agendas or disrespectful attitudes towards "annoying" / "hazardous" members. Or wasting time sharing intimate feelings on a forum intended to be some bar advertisement website.
I would see it as taking me for a fool, which I'm not. Treating all members as dolls. Even worse, being active amongst GOL, people could assume that I get money from GOL, restaurants and / or club owners for organising parties (like last Friday one) and cheat on their trust and friendship to get some money.
For all that, I'd like you to answer as honestly as possible to the following questions:
1/ Are Sindy or GOL in any manner connected with P&G, affiliated companies or similar ?
2/ Is or was GOL ever intended, at any time or to any extent, to become profitable, get people employed or support another profitable business ?
3/ Did Sherry, GOL or both ever got money or compensations of any kind getting the NMDs organised ?
4/ Did GOL ever get any money from any other GOL event ( except GOL official parties ?)
5/ Did you ever asked, get or planned to get any money or compensations of any kind from any of the companies that are suggested in the Where and How forum ?
6/ What is going to be the relationship between GOL and pub owners / events getting organised in other places if Nir opens his own place and / or is getting associated with some of them ?
7/ Would you mind me posting your previous message, this message and your forthcoming answer on the forum, or disclose it to anyone now or later on ?
Once again, I do not judge you, whatever the answers may be. I found myself getting money and valuable advantages from an initiative I had initially launched on a non profit basis, and know how borders can get softer than expected sometimes. I wouldn't mind you getting some money, having people working for you or whatever other advantages from Sindy or GOL. I just believe members deserve to know the truth. And to come back from virtueland to business, I see a higher risk for you to mess up with 3000 potential customers and get caught red handed trying to fool them, than plainly saying: "GOL is non profit, but helps our business" setting the separation rules clear.
For all that, thanks in a
On 05/04./2006 Oded wrote
Hey Hobbes.
I saw all your posts and I would like to help ease your mind.
What exactly do you want to know about Sindy/GoL Commercial/Non Commercial?
Please send me your questions and Ill try to answer as honestly as I can because I see this is really bothering you.
Thanks
Oded"
*********************************************
On 4/5/06, Xavier wrote:
Hi Oded,
Thanks for you message and offer, I do really appreciate it.
Let's make some things clear from the start:
- I hope I'll be able to be clear in my questions without sounding aggressive, rude or impolite in any way. Please tell me if anything is still unclear or if you feel uneasy with anything I'm saying.
- I do appreciate GOL, and I think you know it. I use it and like it as it is. I'm helping it whenever I can to help you guys make it even better. I have no intentions of doing GOL, Sindy or whoever else any harm
But I'm afraid we possibly have a cultural clash and / or misunderstanding between you organisers and me. In Switzerland, people usually don't mix friendship and business. Mixing them is seen as highly dangerous, vicious or at least suspicious. I do know that it is cultural, and I have lived fine in countries where mixing both is common practice. I just like rules being clear.
Some history:
I first joined GOL only to be able to attend a GOL members only salsa class some friends were attending. I was at that time active in organising events for expapts on Swissfriends. I liked the people I meat at the course, and decided to join some more salsa events, getting more active on the forum at the same time. Xmas party was the first ever GOL party I could attend. I volunteered to be nice and save me the entrance fee. I really enjoyed my job of welcoming people, being amongst the Santa and the party as such. All was nice and cool.
I attended the massage course, and got to know Iolly and Nir better. We had a nice dinner all of us together, which was very friendly and enjoyable. So far, so good. I volunteered for the 1000's members party and enjoyed it too. GOL was the best party organising bunch I had ever met. All cool. I organised fondue courses dinners at my place, Uno game nights, car sharing for concerts in Lausanne, drinks in jazz cafes, children activities afternoons, etc. I invited people to join GOL, chated with a few new comers (of any gender and age) and specifically helped one of them. All very cool and self rewarding, as I said.
Then came the rumours, nasty talks and some personal experiences. Gossips included
- Nir's making more money out of Sindy than he's making out of his regular P&G job
- GOL is a secret P&G project to make sure P&Gers mate with each others and stick to Geneva and the Company
- Nir's using GOL to get a reputation, make up a critical mass of consumers and banch mark a sample of them before launching a private business, may it be a club, restaurant, relocation agency or whatever else.
- Sherry's blackmailed the pub owners to get paid / is secretly paid by GOL to get the NMDs organized / will get a job in soon apening Nir's pub
- She rejected some application to help her having the NMDs because she didn't like the persons, feared they would spill the word or for some other reasons
- GOL gets money anytime people are organising events in "affiliated" clubs, bars, etc
- Nir is going to open a pub in September
- The places listed in the "How to" forum give GOL money
- Nir is spying on other profit driven party organisation teams for ideas, and copy them
- Some people are harassed by Nir to get some activities organised more often, in different places or under different conditions
I personally experienced the following:
- several member activities being moved "by mistake" to events
- censorship on the forum
- I invited Nir to come for a friendly dinner and a brainstorm at my place with 6 people. I found myself with 12 other persons in my living room facing Nir having a taped consumer bootcamp session, and asking me to sign a non discloser agreement. All persons present rejected the idea of the "house of good will" and asked for clarification about GOL being business driven or not. Some weeks later, a survey comes out including the house of good will and business related topics
- gave several time advice to Nir about goodies, saying I'de love to be implied in the project, and never was
All of that, I must say, is fine, as such. But to me, what I see just clashes too much with the official "member's driven" and "non profit" titles not to see an issue.
I do NOT care if anybody is having agendas on making profit out of GOL. I do NOT mind anyone having a business at all. For instance, I do attend KrazyLin's parties and do really enjoy them. He's making money out of them and say it. However, I'd gladly work / volunteer for him in exchange of free entrance if he asked me to. I honestly think that, given all the money and efforts you have invested in it, you would be fools, insane parties' addicts or saints not willing to get some money back at some stage. And I don't believe you are any of those.
What I would NOT like, and I said it to Nir already, would be volunteering for an organisation that pretends being non profit and is not. Being expected to follow some humanitarian values and pushed to help others by people taking advantage of my good will and others ones. Getting involved in an organisation that has a high level secrecy, hidden agendas or disrespectful attitudes towards "annoying" / "hazardous" members. Or wasting time sharing intimate feelings on a forum intended to be some bar advertisement website.
I would see it as taking me for a fool, which I'm not. Treating all members as dolls. Even worse, being active amongst GOL, people could assume that I get money from GOL, restaurants and / or club owners for organising parties (like last Friday one) and cheat on their trust and friendship to get some money.
For all that, I'd like you to answer as honestly as possible to the following questions:
1/ Are Sindy or GOL in any manner connected with P&G, affiliated companies or similar ?
2/ Is or was GOL ever intended, at any time or to any extent, to become profitable, get people employed or support another profitable business ?
3/ Did Sherry, GOL or both ever got money or compensations of any kind getting the NMDs organised ?
4/ Did GOL ever get any money from any other GOL event ( except GOL official parties ?)
5/ Did you ever asked, get or planned to get any money or compensations of any kind from any of the companies that are suggested in the Where and How forum ?
6/ What is going to be the relationship between GOL and pub owners / events getting organised in other places if Nir opens his own place and / or is getting associated with some of them ?
7/ Would you mind me posting your previous message, this message and your forthcoming answer on the forum, or disclose it to anyone now or later on ?
Once again, I do not judge you, whatever the answers may be. I found myself getting money and valuable advantages from an initiative I had initially launched on a non profit basis, and know how borders can get softer than expected sometimes. I wouldn't mind you getting some money, having people working for you or whatever other advantages from Sindy or GOL. I just believe members deserve to know the truth. And to come back from virtueland to business, I see a higher risk for you to mess up with 3000 potential customers and get caught red handed trying to fool them, than plainly saying: "GOL is non profit, but helps our business" setting the separation rules clear.
For all that, thanks in a
The text you are quoting:
*********************************************
On 05/04./2006 Oded wrote
Hey Hobbes.
I saw all your posts and I would like to help ease your mind.
What exactly do you want to know about Sindy/GoL Commercial/Non Commercial?
Please send me your questions and Ill try to answer as honestly as I can because I see this is really bothering you.
Thanks
Oded"
*********************************************
On 4/5/06, Xavier wrote:
Hi Oded,
Thanks for you message and offer, I do really appreciate it.
Let's make some things clear from the start:
- I hope I'll be able to be clear in my questions without sounding aggressive, rude or impolite in any way. Please tell me if anything is still unclear or if you feel uneasy with anything I'm saying.
- I do appreciate GOL, and I think you know it. I use it and like it as it is. I'm helping it whenever I can to help you guys make it even better. I have no intentions of doing GOL, Sindy or whoever else any harm
But I'm afraid we possibly have a cultural clash and / or misunderstanding between you organisers and me. In Switzerland, people usually don't mix friendship and business. Mixing them is seen as highly dangerous, vicious or at least suspicious. I do know that it is cultural, and I have lived fine in countries where mixing both is common practice. I just like rules being clear.
Some history:
I first joined GOL only to be able to attend a GOL members only salsa class some friends were attending. I was at that time active in organising events for expapts on Swissfriends. I liked the people I meat at the course, and decided to join some more salsa events, getting more active on the forum at the same time. Xmas party was the first ever GOL party I could attend. I volunteered to be nice and save me the entrance fee. I really enjoyed my job of welcoming people, being amongst the Santa and the party as such. All was nice and cool.
I attended the massage course, and got to know Iolly and Nir better. We had a nice dinner all of us together, which was very friendly and enjoyable. So far, so good. I volunteered for the 1000's members party and enjoyed it too. GOL was the best party organising bunch I had ever met. All cool. I organised fondue courses dinners at my place, Uno game nights, car sharing for concerts in Lausanne, drinks in jazz cafes, children activities afternoons, etc. I invited people to join GOL, chated with a few new comers (of any gender and age) and specifically helped one of them. All very cool and self rewarding, as I said.
Then came the rumours, nasty talks and some personal experiences. Gossips included
- Nir's making more money out of Sindy than he's making out of his regular P&G job
- GOL is a secret P&G project to make sure P&Gers mate with each others and stick to Geneva and the Company
- Nir's using GOL to get a reputation, make up a critical mass of consumers and banch mark a sample of them before launching a private business, may it be a club, restaurant, relocation agency or whatever else.
- Sherry's blackmailed the pub owners to get paid / is secretly paid by GOL to get the NMDs organized / will get a job in soon apening Nir's pub
- She rejected some application to help her having the NMDs because she didn't like the persons, feared they would spill the word or for some other reasons
- GOL gets money anytime people are organising events in "affiliated" clubs, bars, etc
- Nir is going to open a pub in September
- The places listed in the "How to" forum give GOL money
- Nir is spying on other profit driven party organisation teams for ideas, and copy them
- Some people are harassed by Nir to get some activities organised more often, in different places or under different conditions
I personally experienced the following:
- several member activities being moved "by mistake" to events
- censorship on the forum
- I invited Nir to come for a friendly dinner and a brainstorm at my place with 6 people. I found myself with 12 other persons in my living room facing Nir having a taped consumer bootcamp session, and asking me to sign a non discloser agreement. All persons present rejected the idea of the "house of good will" and asked for clarification about GOL being business driven or not. Some weeks later, a survey comes out including the house of good will and business related topics
- gave several time advice to Nir about goodies, saying I'de love to be implied in the project, and never was
All of that, I must say, is fine, as such. But to me, what I see just clashes too much with the official "member's driven" and "non profit" titles not to see an issue.
I do NOT care if anybody is having agendas on making profit out of GOL. I do NOT mind anyone having a business at all. For instance, I do attend KrazyLin's parties and do really enjoy them. He's making money out of them and say it. However, I'd gladly work / volunteer for him in exchange of free entrance if he asked me to. I honestly think that, given all the money and efforts you have invested in it, you would be fools, insane parties' addicts or saints not willing to get some money back at some stage. And I don't believe you are any of those.
What I would NOT like, and I said it to Nir already, would be volunteering for an organisation that pretends being non profit and is not. Being expected to follow some humanitarian values and pushed to help others by people taking advantage of my good will and others ones. Getting involved in an organisation that has a high level secrecy, hidden agendas or disrespectful attitudes towards "annoying" / "hazardous" members. Or wasting time sharing intimate feelings on a forum intended to be some bar advertisement website.
I would see it as taking me for a fool, which I'm not. Treating all members as dolls. Even worse, being active amongst GOL, people could assume that I get money from GOL, restaurants and / or club owners for organising parties (like last Friday one) and cheat on their trust and friendship to get some money.
For all that, I'd like you to answer as honestly as possible to the following questions:
1/ Are Sindy or GOL in any manner connected with P&G, affiliated companies or similar ?
2/ Is or was GOL ever intended, at any time or to any extent, to become profitable, get people employed or support another profitable business ?
3/ Did Sherry, GOL or both ever got money or compensations of any kind getting the NMDs organised ?
4/ Did GOL ever get any money from any other GOL event ( except GOL official parties ?)
5/ Did you ever asked, get or planned to get any money or compensations of any kind from any of the companies that are suggested in the Where and How forum ?
6/ What is going to be the relationship between GOL and pub owners / events getting organised in other places if Nir opens his own place and / or is getting associated with some of them ?
7/ Would you mind me posting your previous message, this message and your forthcoming answer on the forum, or disclose it to anyone now or later on ?
Once again, I do not judge you, whatever the answers may be. I found myself getting money and valuable advantages from an initiative I had initially launched on a non profit basis, and know how borders can get softer than expected sometimes. I wouldn't mind you getting some money, having people working for you or whatever other advantages from Sindy or GOL. I just believe members deserve to know the truth. And to come back from virtueland to business, I see a higher risk for you to mess up with 3000 potential customers and get caught red handed trying to fool them, than plainly saying: "GOL is non profit, but helps our business" setting the separation rules clear.
For all that, thanks in a
Hobbes, May 10, 2006 @ 21:49
On 05/04./2006 Oded wrote
Hey Hobbes.
I saw all your posts and I would like to help ease your mind.
What exactly do you want to know about Sindy/GoL Commercial/Non Commercial?
Please send me your questions and Ill try to answer as honestly as I can because I see this is really bothering you.
Thanks
Oded"
*********************************************
On 4/5/06, Xavier wrote:
Hi Oded,
Thanks for you message and offer, I do really appreciate it.
Let's make some things clear from the start:
- I hope I'll be able to be clear in my questions without sounding aggressive, rude or impolite in any way. Please tell me if anything is still unclear or if you feel uneasy with anything I'm saying.
- I do appreciate GOL, and I think you know it. I use it and like it as it is. I'm helping it whenever I can to help you guys make it even better. I have no intentions of doing GOL, Sindy or whoever else any harm
But I'm afraid we possibly have a cultural clash and / or misunderstanding between you organisers and me. In Switzerland, people usually don't mix friendship and business. Mixing them is seen as highly dangerous, vicious or at least suspicious. I do know that it is cultural, and I have lived fine in countries where mixing both is common practice. I just like rules being clear.
Some history:
I first joined GOL only to be able to attend a GOL members only salsa class some friends were attending. I was at that time active in organising events for expapts on Swissfriends. I liked the people I meat at the course, and decided to join some more salsa events, getting more active on the forum at the same time. Xmas party was the first ever GOL party I could attend. I volunteered to be nice and save me the entrance fee. I really enjoyed my job of welcoming people, being amongst the Santa and the party as such. All was nice and cool.
I attended the massage course, and got to know Iolly and Nir better. We had a nice dinner all of us together, which was very friendly and enjoyable. So far, so good. I volunteered for the 1000's members party and enjoyed it too. GOL was the best party organising bunch I had ever met. All cool. I organised fondue courses dinners at my place, Uno game nights, car sharing for concerts in Lausanne, drinks in jazz cafes, children activities afternoons, etc. I invited people to join GOL, chated with a few new comers (of any gender and age) and specifically helped one of them. All very cool and self rewarding, as I said.
Then came the rumours, nasty talks and some personal experiences. Gossips included
- Nir's making more money out of Sindy than he's making out of his regular P&G job
- GOL is a secret P&G project to make sure P&Gers mate with each others and stick to Geneva and the Company
- Nir's using GOL to get a reputation, make up a critical mass of consumers and banch mark a sample of them before launching a private business, may it be a club, restaurant, relocation agency or whatever else.
- Sherry's blackmailed the pub owners to get paid / is secretly paid by GOL to get the NMDs organized / will get a job in soon apening Nir's pub
- She rejected some application to help her having the NMDs because she didn't like the persons, feared they would spill the word or for some other reasons
- GOL gets money anytime people are organising events in "affiliated" clubs, bars, etc
- Nir is going to open a pub in September
- The places listed in the "How to" forum give GOL money
- Nir is spying on other profit driven party organisation teams for ideas, and copy them
- Some people are harassed by Nir to get some activities organised more often, in different places or under different conditions
I personally experienced the following:
- several member activities being moved "by mistake" to events
- censorship on the forum
- I invited Nir to come for a friendly dinner and a brainstorm at my place with 6 people. I found myself with 12 other persons in my living room facing Nir having a taped consumer bootcamp session, and asking me to sign a non discloser agreement. All persons present rejected the idea of the "house of good will" and asked for clarification about GOL being business driven or not. Some weeks later, a survey comes out including the house of good will and business related topics
- gave several time advice to Nir about goodies, saying I'de love to be implied in the project, and never was
All of that, I must say, is fine, as such. But to me, what I see just clashes too much with the official "member's driven" and "non profit" titles not to see an issue.
I do NOT care if anybody is having agendas on making profit out of GOL. I do NOT mind anyone having a business at all. For instance, I do attend KrazyLin's parties and do really enjoy them. He's making money out of them and say it. However, I'd gladly work / volunteer for him in exchange of free entrance if he asked me to. I honestly think that, given all the money and efforts you have invested in it, you would be fools, insane parties' addicts or saints not willing to get some money back at some stage. And I don't believe you are any of those.
What I would NOT like, and I said it to Nir already, would be volunteering for an organisation that pretends being non profit and is not. Being expected to follow some humanitarian values and pushed to help others by people taking advantage of my good will and others ones. Getting involved in an organisation that has a high level secrecy, hidden agendas or disrespectful attitudes towards "annoying" / "hazardous" members. Or wasting time sharing intimate feelings on a forum intended to be some bar advertisement website.
I would see it as taking me for a fool, which I'm not. Treating all members as dolls. Even worse, being active amongst GOL, people could assume that I get money from GOL, restaurants and / or club owners for organising parties (like last Friday one) and cheat on their trust and friendship to get some money.
For all that, I'd like you to answer as honestly as possible to the following questions:
1/ Are Sindy or GOL in any manner connected with P&G, affiliated companies or similar ?
2/ Is or was GOL ever intended, at any time or to any extent, to become profitable, get people employed or support another profitable business ?
3/ Did Sherry, GOL or both ever got money or compensations of any kind getting the NMDs organised ?
4/ Did GOL ever get any money from any other GOL event ( except GOL official parties ?)
5/ Did you ever asked, get or planned to get any money or compensations of any kind from any of the companies that are suggested in the Where and How forum ?
6/ What is going to be the relationship between GOL and pub owners / events getting organised in other places if Nir opens his own place and / or is getting associated with some of them ?
7/ Would you mind me posting your previous message, this message and your forthcoming answer on the forum, or disclose it to anyone now or later on ?
Once again, I do not judge you, whatever the answers may be. I found myself getting money and valuable advantages from an initiative I had initially launched on a non profit basis, and know how borders can get softer than expected sometimes. I wouldn't mind you getting some money, having people working for you or whatever other advantages from Sindy or GOL. I just believe members deserve to know the truth. And to come back from virtueland to business, I see a higher risk for you to mess up with 3000 potential customers and get caught red handed trying to fool them, than plainly saying: "GOL is non profit, but helps our business" setting the separation rules clear.
For all that, thanks in a
Hobbes, May 10, 2006 @ 21:49
Your Reply:
Only members can see names and photos
Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 7
May 10, 2006 @ 22:15
1. I hope that you believe me when I say that it has always been my goal
2. I believe that killing rumours in public is the best way to get rid of them. Secrecy generates jealousy, envy and hate. I may be wrong, but this is my opinion. Among friends, transparency and trust are key for me
3. as you kindly allowed me to do, I have copied in full all the emails we have exchanged above. Every member will have the opportunity to judge by himself if I have ever been accusing, and if some questions have been left unanswered, voluntarily or not, by any of us
4. thank you for those precisions, especially those which were never mentioned in your previous emails or on the website
Regards,
Hobbes, looking forward to meet new friends in a peaceful, open-minded and gossip-free atmosphere
2. I believe that killing rumours in public is the best way to get rid of them. Secrecy generates jealousy, envy and hate. I may be wrong, but this is my opinion. Among friends, transparency and trust are key for me
3. as you kindly allowed me to do, I have copied in full all the emails we have exchanged above. Every member will have the opportunity to judge by himself if I have ever been accusing, and if some questions have been left unanswered, voluntarily or not, by any of us
4. thank you for those precisions, especially those which were never mentioned in your previous emails or on the website
Regards,
Hobbes, looking forward to meet new friends in a peaceful, open-minded and gossip-free atmosphere
The text you are quoting:
1. I hope that you believe me when I say that it has always been my goal
2. I believe that killing rumours in public is the best way to get rid of them. Secrecy generates jealousy, envy and hate. I may be wrong, but this is my opinion. Among friends, transparency and trust are key for me
3. as you kindly allowed me to do, I have copied in full all the emails we have exchanged above. Every member will have the opportunity to judge by himself if I have ever been accusing, and if some questions have been left unanswered, voluntarily or not, by any of us
4. thank you for those precisions, especially those which were never mentioned in your previous emails or on the website
Regards,
Hobbes, looking forward to meet new friends in a peaceful, open-minded and gossip-free atmosphere
Hobbes, May 10, 2006 @ 22:15
2. I believe that killing rumours in public is the best way to get rid of them. Secrecy generates jealousy, envy and hate. I may be wrong, but this is my opinion. Among friends, transparency and trust are key for me
3. as you kindly allowed me to do, I have copied in full all the emails we have exchanged above. Every member will have the opportunity to judge by himself if I have ever been accusing, and if some questions have been left unanswered, voluntarily or not, by any of us
4. thank you for those precisions, especially those which were never mentioned in your previous emails or on the website
Regards,
Hobbes, looking forward to meet new friends in a peaceful, open-minded and gossip-free atmosphere
Hobbes, May 10, 2006 @ 22:15
Your Reply:
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Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 8
May 11, 2006 @ 14:30
Let's try to put thing back in the right perspective.
As far as I know, Nir & (few) C. have been paying all expenses out of their own pockets, since the very beginning.
At a certain point they began to look for ways of financing it.
They still couldn't find any sponsorship and they decided not to ask for a membership fee that would have maybe spoiled the friendly spirit, transforming GOL in a service in the eyes of somebody.
That means that they go on paying out of their pockets for you, me and everybody else.
Nir and the (few) C. are generous, and they don't mind paying themeselves, but they didn't want to impose their generosity to the other members that, more actively, help keeping the community up. That's why Nir suggested that at least them (the more active members) find a way of being somehow rewarded for their work and commitment. They quickly changed their minds. Anyway, once again nothing going into Nir & C. pockets, but only out.
So the paradox is that, while they go on paying good money instead of all of us, they are periodically suspected to make themeselves rich out of us, poor naif members. ABSURD! ISN'T IT?
I said it in the past and I'm repeating it today: I would have no problem if they made some money but the case is exactly the contrary, so...
As far as I know, Nir & (few) C. have been paying all expenses out of their own pockets, since the very beginning.
At a certain point they began to look for ways of financing it.
They still couldn't find any sponsorship and they decided not to ask for a membership fee that would have maybe spoiled the friendly spirit, transforming GOL in a service in the eyes of somebody.
That means that they go on paying out of their pockets for you, me and everybody else.
Nir and the (few) C. are generous, and they don't mind paying themeselves, but they didn't want to impose their generosity to the other members that, more actively, help keeping the community up. That's why Nir suggested that at least them (the more active members) find a way of being somehow rewarded for their work and commitment. They quickly changed their minds. Anyway, once again nothing going into Nir & C. pockets, but only out.
So the paradox is that, while they go on paying good money instead of all of us, they are periodically suspected to make themeselves rich out of us, poor naif members. ABSURD! ISN'T IT?
I said it in the past and I'm repeating it today: I would have no problem if they made some money but the case is exactly the contrary, so...
The text you are quoting:
Let's try to put thing back in the right perspective.
As far as I know, Nir & (few) C. have been paying all expenses out of their own pockets, since the very beginning.
At a certain point they began to look for ways of financing it.
They still couldn't find any sponsorship and they decided not to ask for a membership fee that would have maybe spoiled the friendly spirit, transforming GOL in a service in the eyes of somebody.
That means that they go on paying out of their pockets for you, me and everybody else.
Nir and the (few) C. are generous, and they don't mind paying themeselves, but they didn't want to impose their generosity to the other members that, more actively, help keeping the community up. That's why Nir suggested that at least them (the more active members) find a way of being somehow rewarded for their work and commitment. They quickly changed their minds. Anyway, once again nothing going into Nir & C. pockets, but only out.
So the paradox is that, while they go on paying good money instead of all of us, they are periodically suspected to make themeselves rich out of us, poor naif members. ABSURD! ISN'T IT?
I said it in the past and I'm repeating it today: I would have no problem if they made some money but the case is exactly the contrary, so...
Stef__Granny, May 11, 2006 @ 14:30
As far as I know, Nir & (few) C. have been paying all expenses out of their own pockets, since the very beginning.
At a certain point they began to look for ways of financing it.
They still couldn't find any sponsorship and they decided not to ask for a membership fee that would have maybe spoiled the friendly spirit, transforming GOL in a service in the eyes of somebody.
That means that they go on paying out of their pockets for you, me and everybody else.
Nir and the (few) C. are generous, and they don't mind paying themeselves, but they didn't want to impose their generosity to the other members that, more actively, help keeping the community up. That's why Nir suggested that at least them (the more active members) find a way of being somehow rewarded for their work and commitment. They quickly changed their minds. Anyway, once again nothing going into Nir & C. pockets, but only out.
So the paradox is that, while they go on paying good money instead of all of us, they are periodically suspected to make themeselves rich out of us, poor naif members. ABSURD! ISN'T IT?
I said it in the past and I'm repeating it today: I would have no problem if they made some money but the case is exactly the contrary, so...
Stef__Granny, May 11, 2006 @ 14:30
Your Reply:
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Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 9
May 11, 2006 @ 14:36
... make your own effort to suggest possible sponsors, or volunteer to pay a part of what Nir and (few) C. are paying out of their pockets...
... and meanwhile try to suggest Nir the answers he was looking for:
how to make clear the differences among Sindy and GOL.
No bad feelings, my beloved grandchildren, I understand your questions wanted to be of help, but you should read (or listen to) the answers after asking. Otherwise you only create a sterile polemic that spoils everybody friendship and trust, without adding anything useful or good.
And now, grandchildren STOP THIS NONSENSE OR I'M GOING TO SPANK YOU ALL!!! :-p
... and meanwhile try to suggest Nir the answers he was looking for:
how to make clear the differences among Sindy and GOL.
No bad feelings, my beloved grandchildren, I understand your questions wanted to be of help, but you should read (or listen to) the answers after asking. Otherwise you only create a sterile polemic that spoils everybody friendship and trust, without adding anything useful or good.
And now, grandchildren STOP THIS NONSENSE OR I'M GOING TO SPANK YOU ALL!!! :-p
The text you are quoting:
... make your own effort to suggest possible sponsors, or volunteer to pay a part of what Nir and (few) C. are paying out of their pockets...
... and meanwhile try to suggest Nir the answers he was looking for:
how to make clear the differences among Sindy and GOL.
No bad feelings, my beloved grandchildren, I understand your questions wanted to be of help, but you should read (or listen to) the answers after asking. Otherwise you only create a sterile polemic that spoils everybody friendship and trust, without adding anything useful or good.
And now, grandchildren STOP THIS NONSENSE OR I'M GOING TO SPANK YOU ALL!!! :-p
Stef__Granny, May 11, 2006 @ 14:36
... and meanwhile try to suggest Nir the answers he was looking for:
how to make clear the differences among Sindy and GOL.
No bad feelings, my beloved grandchildren, I understand your questions wanted to be of help, but you should read (or listen to) the answers after asking. Otherwise you only create a sterile polemic that spoils everybody friendship and trust, without adding anything useful or good.
And now, grandchildren STOP THIS NONSENSE OR I'M GOING TO SPANK YOU ALL!!! :-p
Stef__Granny, May 11, 2006 @ 14:36
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Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 10
May 12, 2006 @ 00:39
Heres my full confession. I have run 3 sushi making workshops. I request before the workshops a donation of 5chf towards my expenses and that participants bring a drink to share with the others at the workshop. I keep all the money myself; every cent of it. Which is to say, between 30-40chf per workshop. Which happens to be pretty much what I spend on each workshop in ingredients.
If someone came to a workshop and didn't donate, well c'est la vie. As it is, some have been very kind and insisted on giving me more - very much appreciated at the workshop where I ended up with only 2 participants having spent for an anticipated 6!
Kiriel
If someone came to a workshop and didn't donate, well c'est la vie. As it is, some have been very kind and insisted on giving me more - very much appreciated at the workshop where I ended up with only 2 participants having spent for an anticipated 6!
Kiriel
The text you are quoting:
Heres my full confession. I have run 3 sushi making workshops. I request before the workshops a donation of 5chf towards my expenses and that participants bring a drink to share with the others at the workshop. I keep all the money myself; every cent of it. Which is to say, between 30-40chf per workshop. Which happens to be pretty much what I spend on each workshop in ingredients.
If someone came to a workshop and didn't donate, well c'est la vie. As it is, some have been very kind and insisted on giving me more - very much appreciated at the workshop where I ended up with only 2 participants having spent for an anticipated 6!
Kiriel
Kiriel, May 12, 2006 @ 00:39
If someone came to a workshop and didn't donate, well c'est la vie. As it is, some have been very kind and insisted on giving me more - very much appreciated at the workshop where I ended up with only 2 participants having spent for an anticipated 6!
Kiriel
Kiriel, May 12, 2006 @ 00:39
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Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 11
May 12, 2006 @ 02:28
I do appreciate people as transparent as you are :-D
The text you are quoting:
I do appreciate people as transparent as you are :-D
Hobbes, May 12, 2006 @ 02:28
Hobbes, May 12, 2006 @ 02:28
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Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 12
May 12, 2006 @ 11:10
... NOT WHAT YOU ARE THINKING, YOU PIGS!!! }:-[
... but after the pre-party dinner I still have Quentin's bike helmet at mine. :-P
Don't you need it now that the sun is back?
Come when you want, mate! :-D
... but after the pre-party dinner I still have Quentin's bike helmet at mine. :-P
Don't you need it now that the sun is back?
Come when you want, mate! :-D
The text you are quoting:
... NOT WHAT YOU ARE THINKING, YOU PIGS!!! }:-[
... but after the pre-party dinner I still have Quentin's bike helmet at mine. :-P
Don't you need it now that the sun is back?
Come when you want, mate! :-D
Stef__Granny, May 12, 2006 @ 11:10
... but after the pre-party dinner I still have Quentin's bike helmet at mine. :-P
Don't you need it now that the sun is back?
Come when you want, mate! :-D
Stef__Granny, May 12, 2006 @ 11:10
Your Reply:
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Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 13
May 12, 2006 @ 17:09
Made me smile...(-; About time in this forum..(-:
The text you are quoting:
Made me smile...(-; About time in this forum..(-:
Nir Ofek, May 12, 2006 @ 17:09
Nir Ofek, May 12, 2006 @ 17:09
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Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 14
May 13, 2006 @ 04:42
Being a fairly new member in the community i would firstly like to commend the founders and all the members working behind the scene sacrficing alot more than meets the eye to making GOL what it is. Its rather bizarre how easily we can mount on a self rightious horse and caste stones forgetting the very simple fact that they joined when it was up and running and not knowing about how it came about. Not to sound rude or vindictive but its all about having fun,from the little i grasped and i do stand to be corrected its about it being a business or earnings made. Well in all fairness really Nir and the crew spend money and time, not out of having too much but to keep it a float and of course any help would be appreciated. if they can make a living out of it i am all for it imagine what wonders they would do. so again its good to get back to the simple basic and not get wound up in hurling accusations. BE A SOLUTION BUT NOT PART OF THE PROBLEM.
The text you are quoting:
Being a fairly new member in the community i would firstly like to commend the founders and all the members working behind the scene sacrficing alot more than meets the eye to making GOL what it is. Its rather bizarre how easily we can mount on a self rightious horse and caste stones forgetting the very simple fact that they joined when it was up and running and not knowing about how it came about. Not to sound rude or vindictive but its all about having fun,from the little i grasped and i do stand to be corrected its about it being a business or earnings made. Well in all fairness really Nir and the crew spend money and time, not out of having too much but to keep it a float and of course any help would be appreciated. if they can make a living out of it i am all for it imagine what wonders they would do. so again its good to get back to the simple basic and not get wound up in hurling accusations. BE A SOLUTION BUT NOT PART OF THE PROBLEM.
ALLIYA, May 13, 2006 @ 04:42
ALLIYA, May 13, 2006 @ 04:42
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Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 15
May 14, 2006 @ 17:54
as they were going off topic and/or personally attacking other members.
Nir
Nir
The text you are quoting:
as they were going off topic and/or personally attacking other members.
Nir
Nir Ofek, May 14, 2006 @ 17:54
Nir
Nir Ofek, May 14, 2006 @ 17:54
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Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 16
May 16, 2006 @ 22:38
In a post, it was mentioned that it has been "suggested to GOL members who do regular events that they ask venue owners for a symbolic cut of the revenue to cover their own energy / time involved in doing regular events"
I just wanted to share with members the practice that David and I have been using for our events (wine and tapas):
We realise that it is attractive for bar owners to have 50 people from a GOL event consuming drinks and food. We personally have absolutely no interest in making money off a GOL community event. So we always negotiate with the bar that they provide some free tapas for the community. Members who have attended our events will confirm that free tapas are available for all on these occasions.
I just wanted to share with members the practice that David and I have been using for our events (wine and tapas):
We realise that it is attractive for bar owners to have 50 people from a GOL event consuming drinks and food. We personally have absolutely no interest in making money off a GOL community event. So we always negotiate with the bar that they provide some free tapas for the community. Members who have attended our events will confirm that free tapas are available for all on these occasions.
The text you are quoting:
In a post, it was mentioned that it has been "suggested to GOL members who do regular events that they ask venue owners for a symbolic cut of the revenue to cover their own energy / time involved in doing regular events"
I just wanted to share with members the practice that David and I have been using for our events (wine and tapas):
We realise that it is attractive for bar owners to have 50 people from a GOL event consuming drinks and food. We personally have absolutely no interest in making money off a GOL community event. So we always negotiate with the bar that they provide some free tapas for the community. Members who have attended our events will confirm that free tapas are available for all on these occasions.
VeroB, May 16, 2006 @ 22:38
I just wanted to share with members the practice that David and I have been using for our events (wine and tapas):
We realise that it is attractive for bar owners to have 50 people from a GOL event consuming drinks and food. We personally have absolutely no interest in making money off a GOL community event. So we always negotiate with the bar that they provide some free tapas for the community. Members who have attended our events will confirm that free tapas are available for all on these occasions.
VeroB, May 16, 2006 @ 22:38
Your Reply:
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Re: Sindy and GoL : What is same / different
Post 17
Jun 2, 2006 @ 17:16
I would luuuuuuuuuurv to have a GOL passport! What a great WORLD CLASS place to belong to! Hahaaaaaaa! :)
@ WELCOME, ALL NEW MEMBERS! @
@ Meet all the other citizens of the world! @
I'm unemployed and on welfare, but GOL makes me feel - SO - GOOD - that I'm willing to cash in some of my chips (if that should be the case) and kindess to still belong, and help to keep it going and make it work, and let other people know about it, and more importantly, PRACTICE FUN AND KINDNESS!
There's enough tyranny, swinddling and back stabbing in the work place (when I get a job, that is!)
Interesting fact: did you know that Vipassana works on a similar principal too?
(o:>* Roberta *<:o)
@ WELCOME, ALL NEW MEMBERS! @
@ Meet all the other citizens of the world! @
I'm unemployed and on welfare, but GOL makes me feel - SO - GOOD - that I'm willing to cash in some of my chips (if that should be the case) and kindess to still belong, and help to keep it going and make it work, and let other people know about it, and more importantly, PRACTICE FUN AND KINDNESS!
There's enough tyranny, swinddling and back stabbing in the work place (when I get a job, that is!)
Interesting fact: did you know that Vipassana works on a similar principal too?
(o:>* Roberta *<:o)
The text you are quoting:
I would luuuuuuuuuurv to have a GOL passport! What a great WORLD CLASS place to belong to! Hahaaaaaaa! :)
@ WELCOME, ALL NEW MEMBERS! @
@ Meet all the other citizens of the world! @
I'm unemployed and on welfare, but GOL makes me feel - SO - GOOD - that I'm willing to cash in some of my chips (if that should be the case) and kindess to still belong, and help to keep it going and make it work, and let other people know about it, and more importantly, PRACTICE FUN AND KINDNESS!
There's enough tyranny, swinddling and back stabbing in the work place (when I get a job, that is!)
Interesting fact: did you know that Vipassana works on a similar principal too?
(o:>* Roberta *<:o)
Roberta, Jun 2, 2006 @ 17:16
@ WELCOME, ALL NEW MEMBERS! @
@ Meet all the other citizens of the world! @
I'm unemployed and on welfare, but GOL makes me feel - SO - GOOD - that I'm willing to cash in some of my chips (if that should be the case) and kindess to still belong, and help to keep it going and make it work, and let other people know about it, and more importantly, PRACTICE FUN AND KINDNESS!
There's enough tyranny, swinddling and back stabbing in the work place (when I get a job, that is!)
Interesting fact: did you know that Vipassana works on a similar principal too?
(o:>* Roberta *<:o)
Roberta, Jun 2, 2006 @ 17:16
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