We want to see what the community thinks of this idea, which has been floating around for a while. Thanks for posting your view.
THE PROBLEM
To join GoL today, all you need is an Email address. This creates 2 problems:
- makes is easy for spammers to join the community
- makes it easy for people who are banned from the community to re-rejoin using a different Email address.
POTENTIAL SOLUTION
We're thinking of making it mandatory for new members to activate their account by sending us an SMS. The mobile numbers of users will be kept private and confidential.
POTENTIAL BENEFITS
- spammers will hesitate if to expose their mobile number
- people who are blocked will have to get a new mobile number in order to re-join, making it harder for them
- each mobile number will only fit 1 GoL profile, so it will be harder to 1 user to create several account
POTENTIAL NEGATIVES
- not all peeople, especially upon arrival in Geneva, have mobiles
We'd love to hear your view: should we move to mobile activation or not, and why?
Thanks, Nir for the GoL gang
Global Forums > News from the Site Admin > Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
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Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Aug 31, 2006 @ 16:32
The text you are quoting:
We want to see what the community thinks of this idea, which has been floating around for a while. Thanks for posting your view.
THE PROBLEM
To join GoL today, all you need is an Email address. This creates 2 problems:
- makes is easy for spammers to join the community
- makes it easy for people who are banned from the community to re-rejoin using a different Email address.
POTENTIAL SOLUTION
We're thinking of making it mandatory for new members to activate their account by sending us an SMS. The mobile numbers of users will be kept private and confidential.
POTENTIAL BENEFITS
- spammers will hesitate if to expose their mobile number
- people who are blocked will have to get a new mobile number in order to re-join, making it harder for them
- each mobile number will only fit 1 GoL profile, so it will be harder to 1 user to create several account
POTENTIAL NEGATIVES
- not all peeople, especially upon arrival in Geneva, have mobiles
We'd love to hear your view: should we move to mobile activation or not, and why?
Thanks, Nir for the GoL gang
Nir OfekAug 31, 2006 @ 16:32
THE PROBLEM
To join GoL today, all you need is an Email address. This creates 2 problems:
- makes is easy for spammers to join the community
- makes it easy for people who are banned from the community to re-rejoin using a different Email address.
POTENTIAL SOLUTION
We're thinking of making it mandatory for new members to activate their account by sending us an SMS. The mobile numbers of users will be kept private and confidential.
POTENTIAL BENEFITS
- spammers will hesitate if to expose their mobile number
- people who are blocked will have to get a new mobile number in order to re-join, making it harder for them
- each mobile number will only fit 1 GoL profile, so it will be harder to 1 user to create several account
POTENTIAL NEGATIVES
- not all peeople, especially upon arrival in Geneva, have mobiles
We'd love to hear your view: should we move to mobile activation or not, and why?
Thanks, Nir for the GoL gang
Nir OfekAug 31, 2006 @ 16:32
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 1
Aug 31, 2006 @ 16:49
People who hide their number?
Simon
Simon
The text you are quoting:
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 2
Aug 31, 2006 @ 16:52
Did you really had to ban people from that so friendly site?
The text you are quoting:
Did you really had to ban people from that so friendly site?
RemyS, Aug 31, 2006 @ 16:52
RemyS, Aug 31, 2006 @ 16:52
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 3
Aug 31, 2006 @ 17:28
I agree on the need of having unique log-in and a way to identify the ppl when the log in, so people cannot create 2 profiles or re-enter the site once banned.
Problem with mobile phones is that not everyone has one (yeah hard to beleive but true) ... the way i saw it done it in some italian website is that you need to input name. birth. etc and what we call 'tax code'. it's a unique code that every citizen has and it's a unique identification. Of course u can fake one of someone that doesn't exist, but it's a crime.
Not sure if something like this is available for everycountry ... but mobile phone is too limitating ...
Vale
Problem with mobile phones is that not everyone has one (yeah hard to beleive but true) ... the way i saw it done it in some italian website is that you need to input name. birth. etc and what we call 'tax code'. it's a unique code that every citizen has and it's a unique identification. Of course u can fake one of someone that doesn't exist, but it's a crime.
Not sure if something like this is available for everycountry ... but mobile phone is too limitating ...
Vale
The text you are quoting:
I agree on the need of having unique log-in and a way to identify the ppl when the log in, so people cannot create 2 profiles or re-enter the site once banned.
Problem with mobile phones is that not everyone has one (yeah hard to beleive but true) ... the way i saw it done it in some italian website is that you need to input name. birth. etc and what we call 'tax code'. it's a unique code that every citizen has and it's a unique identification. Of course u can fake one of someone that doesn't exist, but it's a crime.
Not sure if something like this is available for everycountry ... but mobile phone is too limitating ...
Vale
Hoiling, Aug 31, 2006 @ 17:28
Problem with mobile phones is that not everyone has one (yeah hard to beleive but true) ... the way i saw it done it in some italian website is that you need to input name. birth. etc and what we call 'tax code'. it's a unique code that every citizen has and it's a unique identification. Of course u can fake one of someone that doesn't exist, but it's a crime.
Not sure if something like this is available for everycountry ... but mobile phone is too limitating ...
Vale
Hoiling, Aug 31, 2006 @ 17:28
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 4
Aug 31, 2006 @ 18:05
I wouldn't have joined an unknown (and therfore untrusted) website if I had had to give my cellular phone number at first. I hate those sites where, to dowload the latest 12kbIE plugin, you've got to tell your entire family story, life and passions. My usual goes "a - aa - aa - [email protected] - Pakistan - 89 years old - female - cricket". You know GOL is not a marketing fake / viral site once you're in, but not before. let's give newbies a chance !
To avoid spammers, I'd favor Julie_06's idea of "Trust network". With trustee members acting as "godfathers" so to say. The new "how am I linked to XYZ" function should make this easy, wouldn't it ? Trusted members (seen live and not being mass murders) would be flagged. Flagged members would / could flag others automatically by accepting them in their friend network. Hey, that gives a real sense to the nbr of friends figure, doesn't it ? If that guy has 100 trusted friends, he's not a spammer for sure ! What do you think ?
To avoid spammers, I'd favor Julie_06's idea of "Trust network". With trustee members acting as "godfathers" so to say. The new "how am I linked to XYZ" function should make this easy, wouldn't it ? Trusted members (seen live and not being mass murders) would be flagged. Flagged members would / could flag others automatically by accepting them in their friend network. Hey, that gives a real sense to the nbr of friends figure, doesn't it ? If that guy has 100 trusted friends, he's not a spammer for sure ! What do you think ?
The text you are quoting:
I wouldn't have joined an unknown (and therfore untrusted) website if I had had to give my cellular phone number at first. I hate those sites where, to dowload the latest 12kbIE plugin, you've got to tell your entire family story, life and passions. My usual goes "a - aa - aa - [email protected] - Pakistan - 89 years old - female - cricket". You know GOL is not a marketing fake / viral site once you're in, but not before. let's give newbies a chance !
To avoid spammers, I'd favor Julie_06's idea of "Trust network". With trustee members acting as "godfathers" so to say. The new "how am I linked to XYZ" function should make this easy, wouldn't it ? Trusted members (seen live and not being mass murders) would be flagged. Flagged members would / could flag others automatically by accepting them in their friend network. Hey, that gives a real sense to the nbr of friends figure, doesn't it ? If that guy has 100 trusted friends, he's not a spammer for sure ! What do you think ?
Hobbes, Aug 31, 2006 @ 18:05
To avoid spammers, I'd favor Julie_06's idea of "Trust network". With trustee members acting as "godfathers" so to say. The new "how am I linked to XYZ" function should make this easy, wouldn't it ? Trusted members (seen live and not being mass murders) would be flagged. Flagged members would / could flag others automatically by accepting them in their friend network. Hey, that gives a real sense to the nbr of friends figure, doesn't it ? If that guy has 100 trusted friends, he's not a spammer for sure ! What do you think ?
Hobbes, Aug 31, 2006 @ 18:05
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 5
Aug 31, 2006 @ 18:06
...if I've spoken nonsense quoting you !
The text you are quoting:
...if I've spoken nonsense quoting you !
Hobbes, Aug 31, 2006 @ 18:06
Hobbes, Aug 31, 2006 @ 18:06
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 6
Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:02
i agree with hobbes, that giving out a mobile number first is a bit tricky. we know gol and that it is a good and trustworthy thing, but we didn´t from the beginning.
from a technical point of view, you can hide your caller id when you call someone but not when you send a text message, which is a good thing but there are plenty of web based services that let you put in whatever number you want as a sender, so this solution is maybe not the best.
you can even purchase special calling cards through wich you route your call and can choose whatever caller id you want. big problem in the states in the moment since peoples voiceboxes are very easy to hack that way.
from a technical point of view, you can hide your caller id when you call someone but not when you send a text message, which is a good thing but there are plenty of web based services that let you put in whatever number you want as a sender, so this solution is maybe not the best.
you can even purchase special calling cards through wich you route your call and can choose whatever caller id you want. big problem in the states in the moment since peoples voiceboxes are very easy to hack that way.
The text you are quoting:
i agree with hobbes, that giving out a mobile number first is a bit tricky. we know gol and that it is a good and trustworthy thing, but we didn´t from the beginning.
from a technical point of view, you can hide your caller id when you call someone but not when you send a text message, which is a good thing but there are plenty of web based services that let you put in whatever number you want as a sender, so this solution is maybe not the best.
you can even purchase special calling cards through wich you route your call and can choose whatever caller id you want. big problem in the states in the moment since peoples voiceboxes are very easy to hack that way.
Mister_Sark, Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:02
from a technical point of view, you can hide your caller id when you call someone but not when you send a text message, which is a good thing but there are plenty of web based services that let you put in whatever number you want as a sender, so this solution is maybe not the best.
you can even purchase special calling cards through wich you route your call and can choose whatever caller id you want. big problem in the states in the moment since peoples voiceboxes are very easy to hack that way.
Mister_Sark, Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:02
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 7
Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:08
To scope the problem:
We get around 2 professional spammers who join GoL each month (and then try to get money out members by sending them various lies).
On top, we have to ban about 5 people each month for using the community as sex sites or as advertising sites.
So the problem is not huge, but it's there, and it can grow unless a solution is found.
We get around 2 professional spammers who join GoL each month (and then try to get money out members by sending them various lies).
On top, we have to ban about 5 people each month for using the community as sex sites or as advertising sites.
So the problem is not huge, but it's there, and it can grow unless a solution is found.
The text you are quoting:
To scope the problem:
We get around 2 professional spammers who join GoL each month (and then try to get money out members by sending them various lies).
On top, we have to ban about 5 people each month for using the community as sex sites or as advertising sites.
So the problem is not huge, but it's there, and it can grow unless a solution is found.
Nir Ofek, Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:08
We get around 2 professional spammers who join GoL each month (and then try to get money out members by sending them various lies).
On top, we have to ban about 5 people each month for using the community as sex sites or as advertising sites.
So the problem is not huge, but it's there, and it can grow unless a solution is found.
Nir Ofek, Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:08
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 8
Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:09
people who want to fool the system will find ways of doing it, but the ways to fake an sms take relatively much effort and will make it hard to 'ordinary' spammers to overcome.
The text you are quoting:
people who want to fool the system will find ways of doing it, but the ways to fake an sms take relatively much effort and will make it hard to 'ordinary' spammers to overcome.
Nir Ofek, Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:09
Nir Ofek, Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:09
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 9
Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:19
I love the idea of trusted members 'accepting' others into the community. Some online community, like aSmallWorld, take this a step further and allow new members in only if they're invited by old ones.
We don't want to take GoL that far (as we want to make it a community also for new people who just arrive in town and do not know local people yet), but the idea of being 'accepted is good'.
However, with 500 new members joinign each month, and with the majority of them being active only online and not in offline events, how will the 'trusted' members be able to accept or not accept the new members?
We don't want to take GoL that far (as we want to make it a community also for new people who just arrive in town and do not know local people yet), but the idea of being 'accepted is good'.
However, with 500 new members joinign each month, and with the majority of them being active only online and not in offline events, how will the 'trusted' members be able to accept or not accept the new members?
The text you are quoting:
I love the idea of trusted members 'accepting' others into the community. Some online community, like aSmallWorld, take this a step further and allow new members in only if they're invited by old ones.
We don't want to take GoL that far (as we want to make it a community also for new people who just arrive in town and do not know local people yet), but the idea of being 'accepted is good'.
However, with 500 new members joinign each month, and with the majority of them being active only online and not in offline events, how will the 'trusted' members be able to accept or not accept the new members?
Nir Ofek, Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:19
We don't want to take GoL that far (as we want to make it a community also for new people who just arrive in town and do not know local people yet), but the idea of being 'accepted is good'.
However, with 500 new members joinign each month, and with the majority of them being active only online and not in offline events, how will the 'trusted' members be able to accept or not accept the new members?
Nir Ofek, Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:19
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 10
Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:24
true, new members who do not know GoL may hesitate to give out their mobile. Even tho by now GoL is a bit established and new members can see there are nearly 6000 members, it's still a bit scary.
Not sure how big this problem will be...we'll only know if we try the mobile activation idea. Might be that it will scare away too many people indeed.
Not sure how big this problem will be...we'll only know if we try the mobile activation idea. Might be that it will scare away too many people indeed.
The text you are quoting:
true, new members who do not know GoL may hesitate to give out their mobile. Even tho by now GoL is a bit established and new members can see there are nearly 6000 members, it's still a bit scary.
Not sure how big this problem will be...we'll only know if we try the mobile activation idea. Might be that it will scare away too many people indeed.
Nir Ofek, Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:24
Not sure how big this problem will be...we'll only know if we try the mobile activation idea. Might be that it will scare away too many people indeed.
Nir Ofek, Aug 31, 2006 @ 19:24
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 11
Sep 1, 2006 @ 14:47
Like every new member has to get "verified", with either:
- Mobile, but it requires time/money/ressources for you
- Scan of ID
- having a "godfather"
Honestly, it wouldn't be that hard for anyone willing to join with any of these 3 things I think. And there are prolly a few other possibilities.
R?my
- Mobile, but it requires time/money/ressources for you
- Scan of ID
- having a "godfather"
Honestly, it wouldn't be that hard for anyone willing to join with any of these 3 things I think. And there are prolly a few other possibilities.
R?my
The text you are quoting:
Like every new member has to get "verified", with either:
- Mobile, but it requires time/money/ressources for you
- Scan of ID
- having a "godfather"
Honestly, it wouldn't be that hard for anyone willing to join with any of these 3 things I think. And there are prolly a few other possibilities.
R?my
RemyS, Sep 1, 2006 @ 14:47
- Mobile, but it requires time/money/ressources for you
- Scan of ID
- having a "godfather"
Honestly, it wouldn't be that hard for anyone willing to join with any of these 3 things I think. And there are prolly a few other possibilities.
R?my
RemyS, Sep 1, 2006 @ 14:47
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 12
Sep 1, 2006 @ 20:04
It's been a great discussion with great ideas coming up.
I love the idea of accepting new members either by:
- being invited in by 'old' trusted members; OR, in case the new members is not invited in:
- the new members having to somehow prove he/she is a real non spamming person.
Will bounce this around a few people, and will put up another post asking the wider community what they thing.
Thanks for the help!
I love the idea of accepting new members either by:
- being invited in by 'old' trusted members; OR, in case the new members is not invited in:
- the new members having to somehow prove he/she is a real non spamming person.
Will bounce this around a few people, and will put up another post asking the wider community what they thing.
Thanks for the help!
The text you are quoting:
It's been a great discussion with great ideas coming up.
I love the idea of accepting new members either by:
- being invited in by 'old' trusted members; OR, in case the new members is not invited in:
- the new members having to somehow prove he/she is a real non spamming person.
Will bounce this around a few people, and will put up another post asking the wider community what they thing.
Thanks for the help!
Nir Ofek, Sep 1, 2006 @ 20:04
I love the idea of accepting new members either by:
- being invited in by 'old' trusted members; OR, in case the new members is not invited in:
- the new members having to somehow prove he/she is a real non spamming person.
Will bounce this around a few people, and will put up another post asking the wider community what they thing.
Thanks for the help!
Nir Ofek, Sep 1, 2006 @ 20:04
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 13
Sep 3, 2006 @ 16:06
because they use internet cafes. So we can block one cafe, but there are a million others...
The text you are quoting:
because they use internet cafes. So we can block one cafe, but there are a million others...
Nir Ofek, Sep 3, 2006 @ 16:06
Nir Ofek, Sep 3, 2006 @ 16:06
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 14
Sep 5, 2006 @ 01:00
What do you think about assigning ranks to members? This can solve several problems and will be easy to compute.
A ranking mechanism could for example start from a root of trust (several members that are trustworthy and will have the highest rank). All the other users are ranked based on the evaluation of the friends' list, starting from the members in the root of trust.
For example, the trust metric will evaluate the friends of someone in the root of trust as trusted. It will asign a rank based on the distance to the root of trust and on the number of friends.
Negative ratings can be considered for those that are not in the contact list of their contacts. This way, someone can have as many IDs as he/she wants, but will be hard to build high ratings for them.
This will motivate also new members to become known.
A ranking mechanism could for example start from a root of trust (several members that are trustworthy and will have the highest rank). All the other users are ranked based on the evaluation of the friends' list, starting from the members in the root of trust.
For example, the trust metric will evaluate the friends of someone in the root of trust as trusted. It will asign a rank based on the distance to the root of trust and on the number of friends.
Negative ratings can be considered for those that are not in the contact list of their contacts. This way, someone can have as many IDs as he/she wants, but will be hard to build high ratings for them.
This will motivate also new members to become known.
The text you are quoting:
What do you think about assigning ranks to members? This can solve several problems and will be easy to compute.
A ranking mechanism could for example start from a root of trust (several members that are trustworthy and will have the highest rank). All the other users are ranked based on the evaluation of the friends' list, starting from the members in the root of trust.
For example, the trust metric will evaluate the friends of someone in the root of trust as trusted. It will asign a rank based on the distance to the root of trust and on the number of friends.
Negative ratings can be considered for those that are not in the contact list of their contacts. This way, someone can have as many IDs as he/she wants, but will be hard to build high ratings for them.
This will motivate also new members to become known.
julie_06, Sep 5, 2006 @ 01:00
A ranking mechanism could for example start from a root of trust (several members that are trustworthy and will have the highest rank). All the other users are ranked based on the evaluation of the friends' list, starting from the members in the root of trust.
For example, the trust metric will evaluate the friends of someone in the root of trust as trusted. It will asign a rank based on the distance to the root of trust and on the number of friends.
Negative ratings can be considered for those that are not in the contact list of their contacts. This way, someone can have as many IDs as he/she wants, but will be hard to build high ratings for them.
This will motivate also new members to become known.
julie_06, Sep 5, 2006 @ 01:00
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 15
Sep 5, 2006 @ 16:51
Thanks Jules. We're very hot on the idea of members developing a 'reputation' based on their actions in the community, just like real-life reputations.
So far we have not been able to identify which criteria exactly to apply to this system and how to make it work. We want the reputation to be based mainly on people's actions (again - like in real life...).
Any ideas very very welcome...
So far we have not been able to identify which criteria exactly to apply to this system and how to make it work. We want the reputation to be based mainly on people's actions (again - like in real life...).
Any ideas very very welcome...
The text you are quoting:
Thanks Jules. We're very hot on the idea of members developing a 'reputation' based on their actions in the community, just like real-life reputations.
So far we have not been able to identify which criteria exactly to apply to this system and how to make it work. We want the reputation to be based mainly on people's actions (again - like in real life...).
Any ideas very very welcome...
Nir Ofek, Sep 5, 2006 @ 16:51
So far we have not been able to identify which criteria exactly to apply to this system and how to make it work. We want the reputation to be based mainly on people's actions (again - like in real life...).
Any ideas very very welcome...
Nir Ofek, Sep 5, 2006 @ 16:51
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 16
Sep 7, 2006 @ 12:26
can i just say that i don't have a mobile and certain don't plan on getting one any time soon. as i'm already a member, i guess i'm ok, but for everyone else who might be like me (i know, there can't be many), it would be a problem to join, should they send an SMS to activate the whole thing.
The text you are quoting:
can i just say that i don't have a mobile and certain don't plan on getting one any time soon. as i'm already a member, i guess i'm ok, but for everyone else who might be like me (i know, there can't be many), it would be a problem to join, should they send an SMS to activate the whole thing.
Minda, Sep 7, 2006 @ 12:26
Minda, Sep 7, 2006 @ 12:26
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 17
Sep 8, 2006 @ 14:24
Better to have the multiple ways as discussed earlier...If not an SMS, through a reference email of another member, or why not a real telephone number, or an "I want to be a GOL member telephone call" to site admin (Don't think this would be many since the majority have mobiles so site admin wouldn't be swamped)...Again, this is a deterant for the two groups of 1) spammers 2) people who have been banned (who site admin has a good idea of whom they are)...Just ideas...
The text you are quoting:
Better to have the multiple ways as discussed earlier...If not an SMS, through a reference email of another member, or why not a real telephone number, or an "I want to be a GOL member telephone call" to site admin (Don't think this would be many since the majority have mobiles so site admin wouldn't be swamped)...Again, this is a deterant for the two groups of 1) spammers 2) people who have been banned (who site admin has a good idea of whom they are)...Just ideas...
pntbreakrick, Sep 8, 2006 @ 14:24
pntbreakrick, Sep 8, 2006 @ 14:24
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 18
Sep 10, 2006 @ 01:16
and jokers l think its ok to ban people who are out to make fun of this site.
Thanks to Nir, Siteadmin and the others who maintain this site!
Thanks to Nir, Siteadmin and the others who maintain this site!
The text you are quoting:
and jokers l think its ok to ban people who are out to make fun of this site.
Thanks to Nir, Siteadmin and the others who maintain this site!
tchitchi, Sep 10, 2006 @ 01:16
Thanks to Nir, Siteadmin and the others who maintain this site!
tchitchi, Sep 10, 2006 @ 01:16
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Re: Your opinion: GoL by Mobile?
Post 19
Sep 19, 2006 @ 12:58
Hi all,
Before this summer we have studied the case of providing a mobile service for salsaFlash. (http://salsa.tla.ch)
The service was intended for users that wanted us to send them events information. They would register for that specific service.
They would be charged by sms sent to them and sms numbers would stay confidential.
This is the best approach we found for our needs.
The SMS number is only given in case you want to subscribe to that service. This approach is commonly accepted by the user.
Bye for now
Christian
Before this summer we have studied the case of providing a mobile service for salsaFlash. (http://salsa.tla.ch)
The service was intended for users that wanted us to send them events information. They would register for that specific service.
They would be charged by sms sent to them and sms numbers would stay confidential.
This is the best approach we found for our needs.
The SMS number is only given in case you want to subscribe to that service. This approach is commonly accepted by the user.
Bye for now
Christian
The text you are quoting:
Hi all,
Before this summer we have studied the case of providing a mobile service for salsaFlash. (http://salsa.tla.ch)
The service was intended for users that wanted us to send them events information. They would register for that specific service.
They would be charged by sms sent to them and sms numbers would stay confidential.
This is the best approach we found for our needs.
The SMS number is only given in case you want to subscribe to that service. This approach is commonly accepted by the user.
Bye for now
Christian
chris22, Sep 19, 2006 @ 12:58
Before this summer we have studied the case of providing a mobile service for salsaFlash. (http://salsa.tla.ch)
The service was intended for users that wanted us to send them events information. They would register for that specific service.
They would be charged by sms sent to them and sms numbers would stay confidential.
This is the best approach we found for our needs.
The SMS number is only given in case you want to subscribe to that service. This approach is commonly accepted by the user.
Bye for now
Christian
chris22, Sep 19, 2006 @ 12:58
Your Reply:
