what about Tibet?

why not write a letter about Tibet?

Is it because they dont terrorize the world, have no oil , no rich brothers 

and no support of Amnesty international ????

Do you know how many Tibetians were murdered by the Chinese government

who stole their land and sent them to exile

Why is no one demonstrating for them

why is no one writing newspaper articles for them ?

could it be because they are not in conflict with a jewish population  that so many love to hate ?

come on find a more justified cause finally , one that does not have to do with Hamas  

@star: there is so much suffering in the world and so little time. I happen to believe the Palestinians have been dealt a pretty crappy deal in life so I choose to focus my free time on helping them, in my own, amazingly small way. I completely respect that you choose, admirably, to highlight the plight of people of Tibet on this site. 

There is no conflict here. I enthusiastically second your empathy for and with the people of Tibet. Shalom:o)

Can anyone really claim that no one writes or protests about the Chinese governments actions in Tibet?  (And use it to drag Hamas into the discussion when according to the AI report the IDF have accused him of ties to the PFLP with very different views than Hamas - how morality blurs in some people's eyes and conscience!).  Ahmed Qatamesh's 'crime' is that he is a vocal Palestinian academic and writer.

For a 'short' selection of writing on Tibet (don't know if Richard Gere is mentioned!), see here:

http://query.nytimes.com/search/sitesearch?query=tibet&srchst=cse

http://www.google.com/search?q=tibet&domains=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org&sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org

http://www.prwatch.org/search/node/Tibet

Perhaps we can specialise on topics of interest!?  Manics 1984 on topics of Palestinian justice, Star on Tibet and I can make a modest contribution on NGO/Humanitarian agency and media hypocrisy such as that of Haitian redvelopmment, so called Afghanistan/Pakistan development and al-Jazeera coverage of Libya and Bahrain.

The Lies of Greg Mortenson

Three Cups of Pee By HELEN REDMOND

Greg Mortenson, the #1 New York Times bestselling author of Three Cups of Tea (TCT) is a liar. Readers all over the world unknowingly drank three cups of pee, not green tea. Greg got the green, you know what I mean? Mortenson is accused of using his nonprofit organization, the Central Asia Institute, as his “personal ATM.” 

Dr. Greg (an affectionate nickname) pissed on the people of Afghanistan and Pakistan for his own profit, prestige, and power. He wanted to be the next Mother Teresa, his Nobel Peace Prize winning heroine, but he is a motherfucking liar whose lies are so pathological he even lied about her in TCT. In 2000, he was in the Calcutta International Airport and heard Mother Teresa died. He went to pay his respects and writes a solemn passage about viewing her dead body. Problem. Mother Teresa died in 1997. http://counterpunch.org/redmond05062011.html

The Humanitarian Industry in Haiti

Georges Marie is a proud and angry Haitian lawyer who lost her husband in the earthquake. As she mourned, the humanitarian industry exploded.

She watched with concern as Port au Prince's narrow streets became clogged with white Landrovers, each stamped with an aid agency logo on the driver's door. It still rankles her when the humanitarian aid workers dine and dance in a four-star restaurant overlooking the Place Boyer, a public square now strung with tarps, home to some of the million-plus people still displaced after the 2010 earthquake. (Daniel Moss is an international development and human rights consultant. He wrote this article while on assignment in Haiti for American Jewish World Service.) http://counterpunch.org/moss05062011.html

It appears more and more that the whole Libyan affair was done up with smoke and mirrors. Initially the Benghazi Uprising was nothing more than a small local riot; the rebellion was unknown in other cities. Soon, however, the government was destabilized by Al-Jazeera, as the popular Arab network broadcast the “news” that Muammar Qaddafi and his sons had fled the country for Venezuela and that his black mercenaries were about to unleash another holocaust on hapless Libyans. Al-Jazeera’s lies have proven to be more damaging even than NATO’s bombs; they have fought Qaddafi tooth and nail, from the first rebel yell to the last foul scene of murder. Even today, while the bodies of Qaddafi’s family were spread before Libyan churchmen, al-Jazeera continued to broadcast denials from Benghazi. Stephen Lendman correctly notes that “Jazeera has become a more efficient propaganda machine against the Arab minds than the BBC ever was”. http://counterpunch.org/shamir05052011.html

Ideally, richer Arab countries would be the primary source of assistance for poorer countries undergoing democratic transitions. Qatar's creative foreign policy posture and influential Al Jazeera news network, for instance, have been very pro-active in supporting opposition forces in Libya and across the Arab world. But Al Jazeera has been notably silent on the turmoil in Bahrain. And the other rich Arab countries, autocracies with non-democratic agendas, are not likely to provide funds for new democratic movements. http://www.counterpunch.org/heydarian04282011.html

By JOHN V. WHITBECK

As best I can tell, the recent violence occurred when some ethnic Tibetans, understandably fed up with the ever-increasing presence and domination of Han Chinese in traditional Tibetan areas, exploded in frustration, burned some Han Chinese shops and killed some Han Chinese civilians. What, in such circumstances, would one expect the Chinese authorities to do? When, by way of example, some African-Americans in Watts and other poor areas of Los Angeles exploded in frustration, burned some white- and Korean-owned stores and attacked some non-blacks, did the American police run away? As I recall, they sought to restore order. So have the Chinese authorities. (As a practical matter, the most brutal images of repressive police action against ethnic Tibetan protestors have not come from China but from other countries, most notably Nepal.)

Can anyone seriously argue that Chinese treatment of Tibetans, who have not been subject to either genocide or ethnic cleansing and of whom the vast majority continue to live on their ancestral lands, compares unfavorably with the treatment accorded to the Native Americans by the European settlers of North America or the treatment accorded (and continuing to be accorded) to the indigenous Palestinians by the Zionist settlers of Palestine? Can anyone seriously argue that it is even in the same league of evil and injustice? http://www.counterpunch.org/whitbeck04142008.html

By DAVID KRIEGER

At this critical moment, the Dalai Lama and Tibet need us. I ask you to join in adding your voice to those supporting the Dalai Lama, the cause of Tibetan autonomy, and an end to the violence in Tibet.

Following the violence in Tibet and China this month, which claimed an unconfirmed number of lives, the Chinese government accused the Dalai Lama, a great peace leader and long-time member of the Nuclear Age Peace Foundation Advisory Council, of being a "gangster" and a "terrorist."

The origins of the violence are not yet clear, but one thing is--the XIVth Dalai Lama has urged nonviolence in Tibet not only this month, but for decades. In recent statements, he has repeated his call for "meaningful autonomy" in Tibet, not for independence. http://www.counterpunch.org/krieger03252008.html

sorry but i dont understand Marc 

what do you mean the Tibetians have not been subject to genocide

do you not know that 

1) there were around a million Tibetians murdered by the chinese government 

2) China took over Tibet and the Tibetian people who live there live under 

a dictatorship of china that monitors the coming and going also of foreigners

so it is very difficult to go to Tibet

If the Tibetians acted in violence it is nothing in relation to the chinese government who has done very clear ethnic cleansing and has taken over 

Tibet

Yes, the leader calls for nonviolence however i do not want that to happen in my land 

Furthermore i fail to see any reason to want that kind of situation happening to MY people

who were twice in exile already and will not let it happen again

for six million reasons 

however you downplay it a million people are too many people to kill 

and actually one is too many i hope you agree 

I am totally with the Tibetian people because i see what they contribute to the world in their spiritual teachings 

and other people, i too see what they contribute to the world ¨

terror and violence and racism 

see the news today, as in every day, violence in Moslem countries

or countries dominated by Moslem extremists to be politcally correct

do i want an extreme moslem country that supports the likes of Bin laden

next to my country ?

no

and why should i feel sorry for people for supposibly getting a crappy deal as the guy who started this thread said

what did the palestinians ever contribute to the world besides voting the Hamas in, sending rockets to Israel and playing the victim constantly ?

yes, there is much suffering in the world and a great deal of it is created by extreme moslems,

just look at the headlines today

while i see good intentions on your part i think you fail to see that your BLIND 

and naive support of the Palestinians , not the people, but the so called 

"freedom fighters" is part of  "the crappy deal" the people of Israle have been dealt

Let me tell you something about a "crappy deal*

what about the fact that the jews have had to live with violence for so long 

kicked out of europe  in a "die or go ( without possessions) " deal ?

What about people that have returned to their land, their homes occupied by the people who had kicked them out, 

yes, there  are europeans living in Jewish homes all over europe, and then 

being told by those hypocrite europeans that they , the jews, occupy other people 's land?

Look it is very easy to reach that conclusion but the jews did not just take 

over other people's land, it was not that simple

After all that hope for a peaceful resolution the people of Israel got rockets in return for giving the Palestinians control over Gaza 

and then i am suppose to feel sorry for the Palestinians for not willing to choose peace, for voting in an extermists Hamas regime that supports Bin Laden and any other violent thug out there who kill their own people if they dare to speak against their violent policies?

Israel will never have an extreme violent government because there is too much self criticism  and support for a peaceful resolution

but i am really tired of so called peace ships bringing in weapon to Gaza

i am so tired of naive support of palestinian so called peace activists

look if the man was such a dove the Israelis would not have put him in prison

at least in Israel people are placed in prison not beheaded or shot in the street like the countries surrounding Israel and the palestinian territories

I have no empathy for people who would murder me or any Israel  if i crossed the border to Gaza or anywhere without an investigation or it making headlines in Europe  

and i certainly can not respect your choice of siding with the plight of those people 

if they want a peaceful coexistence with Israel they could have had it very easily by making THAT CHOICE but they consistantly dont choose that option and blame Israel for seeking to keep its citizens alive

so let me side with the Tibetian people who contribute a peaceful philosophy to the world and not with people who choose to send rockets into my land 

you can support whoever you want but i am expressing why i dont agree with you

peace  

No not hate at all 

just tired of israel picking up the bill for all those extreme moslems and always held accountable 

I would like to see more Moslems stand accountable for their deeds that is all 

I dont want to say *some of my best friends are moslems "

but i do have Moslem friends and have nothing against Moslems just against 

UNCONDITIONAL support of people who dont choose peace and blame Israel for their choices that is all

but NEVER hate

peace 

http://youtu.be/_OzJeUPCFUo

because yes, the best is yet to come, there still needs to be a lot of work 

with Israel and not against israel to improve everything for everyone 

peace again 

Star, you are talking nonesense. Manics was talking about Palestina and you come up with Tibet.  If you wanna talk about Israel, create your own discussion forum please and spread your poisson elsewhere. 

Manics, you have my support!

Free Palestina!

@star just by curiosity:

What do you think about the Israeli colonisation on the West Bank?

Over the course of the 22 day Israeli assault on the Gaza Strip on the winter 2008-2009, a total of 1,434 Palestinians and 13 Israelis were killed. Of the Palestinians deaths, 235 were combatants. The vast majority of the dead, however, were civilians and non-combatants: protected persons according to the principles of IHL. PCHR investigations confirm that, in total, 960 civilians lost their lives, including 288 children and 121 women. 239 police officers were also killed; the majority (235) in air strikes carried out on the first day of the attacks. A total of 5,303 Palestinians were injured in the assault, including 1,606 children and 828 women.

which means = Illegal occupation, 

@Geoffrey L:

Hi, interesting maps... Could you cite the source?  Thanks!

the point is the Arabs are sore losers as a good nonjewish friend of mine puts it

During the six day war when Israel was invaded by the Arab armies who wanted 

to wipe out the Jewish entity in the region ( an existence that goes back centuries much like the Tibetians) 

Israel not only was able to survive the attack but to conquer lands 

the dome of the rock which is also a holy site for moslems 

who have other holy sites ( meca medina etc) was given to the Moslems 

with some restrictions because they were in the habit of tossing stones 

on the Jews praying the wailing wall below 

look sultana 

illegal whatever, Israel conquered those lands just like all countries in the world 

israel is a tiny strip of land and yes there should have been a division but 

the Arabs rejected that division and CHOSE war 

they continue to choose extreme regimes who have an agenda to wipe 

out the jewish entity and you expect me to feel sorry for one palestinian kept in jail

what about Gilad shalit, the Israeli soldier  who is held by Hamas and 

against the Geneva convention has no possibility to contact his family 

every other day the Hamas play with him like dice and torture his family 

in the past they negotiated with Israel and gave back dead bodies in return 

to Israel releasing terrorists

they name their main streets after terrorists who place bombs in buses 

and you expect me to feel pity for them ?

or to apologize for having a tiny strip of land to call home?

It has everything to do with Tibet

genocide of Tibetian has been denied just like that of the Armenians 

and Kurds 

while people weep for sadam Hussein and throw stones at the USA for 

intervening 

look it is not that simple at all but i for one dont feel any wrong doing in owning 

to my land  that survives despite countless attempts to wipe israel out 

now they play the media game and present palestinans as victims 

i would buy it had they not voted in Hamas and if i were you dear Sultana

i would google Hamas and then open your eyes

Have a good day 

nonsense 

Gaza is no longer part of Israel

those mapy are not true at all 

do you happen to have a map of all the jewish homes occupied in Europe

i can name a few ...in poland, slovakia, germany, hungary etc

there are people living in   homes of the six million ( minus the million children)

say roughly five million homes

show me that map and the map of the jewish homes taken over by the Arab

countries who kicked them out

and where is the historical map of ancient israel which was occupied by

the jewish people ?

In any case israel is there to stay

tough luck

http://www.btselem.org/English/Settlements/Taking_Control.asp

"Taking control of the land in the West Bank 

Using a complex legal-bureaucratic mechanism, Israel took control of some 50 percent of the land of the West Bank, primarily for establishment of the settlements and preparation of land reserves for their expansion. The main means used for this purpose is declaring and recording the land as “state land.” This procedure, which began in 1979, is based on the manipulative application of the Ottoman Land Law of 1858, which was in force on the eve of the occupation. The mechanism resulted in the declaration, mostly between 1979-1992, of 913,000 dunams as state land, which comprise 16 percent of the West Bank. The other methods used, each based on a different legal basis, were requisition for “military needs,” declaration of land as “abandoned property,” and expropriation of land for “public needs.” In addition, Israel has aided citizens in purchasing land on the “open market.” Simultaneously, in many cases, settlers independently seized control of private Palestinian land, while Israeli officials failed in almost all cases to enforce the law and return the land to its lawful owners.

[B'TSELEM - The Israeli Information Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories was established in 1989 by a group of prominent academics, attorneys, journalists, and Knesset members. It endeavors to document and educate the Israeli public and policymakers about human rights violations in the Occupied Territories, combat the phenomenon of denial prevalent among the Israeli public, and help create a human rights culture in Israel.]

Star, i totally understand that you support your country and try to defend it. The problem is, nationalism leads to blindness.  You, open your eyes and look at the reality.

PS: Free tibet as well 

@star: Can you please just answer my question about the colonisation in the West Bank? Do you think is the colonisation is good for peace? Btw do you have a map of Israel in 2011 and Israel with the 1947 UN partition plan?

I think we all Blame and Comdamne all terrosist attacks against Israelis civilians and believe me I have no mercy for the people who killed innocent people, but I have the impression by your way to express yourself, you don't feel anything for the palestinians civilians dead in this conflicts. I hope I am wrong.

@Geoffrey,

Those maps are such a load of crap, were did you find them Hamas 101?

the simplest thing you can do is check out ; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine

before you spread your propaganda nonsense. 

To be honest I found them on google and I was not sure about them. So I decided to post them by provocation just in order to see the reactions of the people.

By the way on your link I found these 2 maps :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:UN_Partition_Plan_Palestine.png

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Is-wb-gs-gh_v3.png

Shall we try to get back on topic; "Amnesty International: Palestinian writer imprisoned without charge"

without getting our Burka's or yarmulka's in a knot.

I think anybody would condemn arresting people without motivation or reason. Unfortunately this happens all over the world.

@ Manics, curious why you always seem to pick the topics related to Israel? you do it very delicately but you do seem to focus on it rather often. 

"There's now a 48-hour cease-fire going on in the Middle East. Israel will stop attacking Hezbollah, but Hezbollah will not necessarily agree to stop attacking Israel. Hey, we can't even get Mel Gibson to stop attacking Israel." --Jay Leno

"A ceasefire went into effect between Israel and Hezbollah. Total disaster. We are no longer on the road to World War III. Jesus was half way here. Now he has turn his cloud of glory and go back to heaven -- and it does not get good mileage. Here's the worst part. Guess who brokered this peace in the Middle East? The U.S. and the French working through the UN. The only non-offensive word in that sentence is 'through.'" --Stephen Colbert

Well Sandro, maybe you also should have a look at google and make a diffrence between Hamas and Palestinas.  winter 2008-2009 PCHR investigations confirm that, in total,960 civilians lost their lives, including 288 children and 121 women. 

Lets get out of the circle, who is attacking whom. The point is, The palestinas are prisonaers in their own country. Even the water resources are managed by the Israeli governments. Most people are for a double state, incl Amos Oz (a fantastic writer). and what about you?

Ever heard of the Goldstone Report?

Dear Sultana, my dear Swiss neutral girl.

I started to type this really long mail but then I thought, neeeh not worth the energy. 

And jumped to the next forum....

My dear Sandro, you took the right decison because you cant deny it. 

hi 

well Gaza is in Palestinan hands and the reason they are as said here

"prisoners in their own homes" is becomes the Israelis have to defend 

Israel against rocket attackets, smuggeling of weapons which has been going on non stop 

the problem is as far as i can see is the palestinians have no plan or agenda

for their country 

i mean what are they actually going to write in their declaration of independance

"destroy israel"?

I do feel for the palestinians, more than i have expressed here 

but that is because i feel for anyone having to live in poverty 

what i also feel for is my country, israel, who has to constantly been blamed

for deeds that are not israel's fault 

israel did not ask for this conflict,

israel accepted the partition 

the land that is so called occupied was taken over in the six day war 

when israel tried to stop several arab armies from invading israel 

and sending jews once again into exile ( they had two rounds throughout history and always come back to their land)

I am totally for a palestinian country and for the palestinian having full 

control over their destiny i am 

however as long as i see rockets for land 

and an agenda of violence and Hamas declaring its intentions of destruction 

i say, hold on, and yes, israel needs secure borders

that is the reason 

I am totally for a peaceful co existence but i think the leaders of the palestinians should be held accountable 

and further than that the extreme ideology of extreme moslems that is a danger

to all arab countries has to be confronted and dealt with as the monster it is 

Yes, what translator quotes is an Israeli human rights organization that 

investigates and controls israel's doings 

i would love to see a moslem organization doing them same

peace and light 

yes, i do feel for everyone that suffers but i dont want to be held responsible 

for other people's doings and extreme ideology 

i was not brought up to want to kill and destroy other people 

but unfortunately the hamas is teacching that and practicing it 

therefore i feel little sympathy to supporting palestinian causes but prefer

to encourage peaceful coexistence supporting israel whose majority

wants a peaceful coexistence , that i am sure of   

"my brother said to me .."If you shut your eyes to a frightening sight , you end up being frightened.If you look at everything straight on, there is nothing to be afraid of "

       Akira Kurosawa 

something like an Autobiography 

I just feel like quoting what a Palestinian taxi driver once told me in a journey to Behtlehem from Jerusalem:  ....we Palestinians and Israelis are like husband and wife, we fight all day long and then we sleep together at night!!  :-) Shalom, Salam.

Even I disagree witwith most of your facts, the only thing I retain it's you want peace.

In order to see your objectivity, could you share with us what you don't like about the Israeli politic to resolve the conflict? 

Exellent hahahaha 

hi folks,

thanks to everyone for contributing. 

@sandro re your question...''@ Manics, curious why you always seem to pick the topics related to Israel? you do it very delicately but you do seem to focus on it rather often.''

Good question my friend. Well you are absolutely right, I do tend to focus on the Palestinian issue in my free time, but why? Because it is my opinion that not only do Palestinians have a rough time of it but their plight is compounded by the fact that ridiculous media coverage (especially in the U.S.) makes the average Palestinian out to be a suicide bomber and the advocate of the human rights of Palestinians to be an antisemite who wears SS pajamas and a swastika armband to bed every night. Words count and we only get a to speak and write a limited number of them (we're not here forever...sob!) so i'm trying to use my quota of seconds/words to write about something I think is worth focusing on. I concede without reservation that my choice of focus is based on subjective feeling and is 'natural' and 'correct' for me and nobody else. Everyone has their own unique perspective on the world and you've correctly identified mine.

Hope to see you on another post soon, thanks again for your useful question :o)

Did I write that Tibetans have not been subject to genocide?

During Mao's megalomaniacal great leap forward (Mao's Great Famine: http://www.amazon.com/Maos-Great-Famine-Devastating-Catastrophe/dp/0802777686/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1305091434&sr=1-1) estimates as high as 55 million excess deaths (over the 'natural' expected mortality rate) occurred.  I would not calll that genocide ("While a precise definition varies among genocide scholars, a legal definition is found in the 1948 United Nations Convention on the Prevention and Punishment of the Crime of Genocide (CPPCG). Article 2 of this convention defines genocide as "any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such: killing members of the group; causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group; deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life, calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part; imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group; [and] forcibly transferring children of the group to another group" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocide.  Note the notion of 'intention'. The Armenian holocaust was intentional.  The Nazi holocaust was intentional etc.).

During that period close to a million Tibetans died but I would not argue that was intentional genocide but just like for the other vicitms of Mao's megalomania and the willingness of his cadres to go along with him, deceive him and themselves, it was a consequence of extreme stupidity in an effort to equal and eventually surpass the UK in terms of agricultural and industrial output.

And how efeshing to see you keep an open mind and balance by posing the question of what the Palestinians have ever done for the world.  So Monty Pythonesque.  I will name but one Palestinian to refute your statement: Edward Said. 

Further proof that AI has ignored Tibet: http://www.amnesty.org/en/ai_search?keywords=tibet&form_id=search_theme_form&form_token=aacaa8ddec735f63cad542da5742b1be

Don't trust these maps as many (most?) are from the CIA: http://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/israel.html

I have seen the same maps but don't recall where.  Anyways here is a site nto to be trusted since it is a grassroots network of Palestinians who have never done anything in the world except elect Hamas: http://stopthewall.org/news/maps.shtml

These maps reflect the reality on the ground of the West Bank after its division in Areas A, B and C during the Oslo Agreements.  Plenty of information available on the web on this matter through Israeli based organizations such as Ta'ayush, Beth'selem. Gush Shalom.......,none of them suspected of any links to Hamas.

Yes, Edward Said was a great contribution to humanity and so was Mahmood Darwich.

Thanks you for your answer, however I still didn't clearly get your point of you about the colonisation in the westbank.

so many interesting discussions going on here which is fabulous.

on a separate point please, if you've taken the time to post consider sending the letter too if you haven't already. merci mille fois!

A related problem is 'white flight' or middle class flight where white middle income families move out of American inner cities because of the appearance of those less gentrified folks and the fear their property prices would decline as well as all the problems and evil that poorer working class 'etnic'/brown/people of colour bring with them.

Back to the gentrification theme, I have recently watched some clips of a latino/a web tv show (East WillyB) and interviews with the creators and actors here: http://grittv.org/tag/bushwick.  It is a comedy that deals with Bushwick in Brooklyn and gentrification.

never ending?  Let's hope it will end one day for the sake of Palestiniand and Israelis and the rest of us

annoying?  yes, particularly for Palestinians and Israelis

boring?  anything but borin considering the suffering in both sides

predictable?  I wish I had the crystal ball you seem to have

overanalyzed?  I do not think so.  You'll be amazed at the length of ignorance around this conflict.  Some people believe it is Palestine who's occupying Israel and the settles are some kind of happy-go farmers.  As for the term "administrative detention" which opened this thread in relation to a Palestinian writer it means being arrested without a trial, sometimes without legal representation, for undefined periods of time.

As for your last sentence I choose not to try to understand it.

Very regally stated, Nefertiti...

http://current.com/news-and-politics/76306502_evicted-in-harlem.htm

Video of police coming to evict blacks in Harlem...

@Star: Where are you? I am still wainting :)

I am also wainting an answer for my question ;-)

didn't ex-president clinton (the first black president some told us) set up shop in Harlem?  Surely he had some comments to make on this atrocity?

http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/israel-admits-it-covertly-canceled-residency-status-of-140-000-palestinians-1.360935

@translator re your last post: this is what drives me mad with the whole israel palestine thing: these kind of actions are so clearly NOT in the interests of the state of israel or regular israeli people. rightwing elements within the government of israel are really doing a very good job of making life much more difficult than it has to be for israelis and palestinians. it's the same old story from all over the world, the nutters always seem to be the ones that end up with the megaphone on the political stage.