Wow!  Perhaps these were not accidents...

Has anyone considered how different the world would be if Switzerland hadn't have been neutral during WW2?

It was neutral in name only. That's what you can find out by reading the report.

The report's studies are, of course, more nuanced than my personal conclusion, however, most all of the studies show extensive sector-by-sector cooperation with or at least  lack of resistance to the Nazis.

Hi Ariel 

Interesting to know what you think about the result of the trial of John Domonyuk in Germany, he was sentenced to 5 years, about one hour for every person murdered, ( about 28,000) 

It is easier to point to individuals, and certainly switzerland had prominant 

figures who were all for the Nazi propoganda.

Someone told me once that while Germany cleaned up its Nazis the swiss

had a lot of them in the cupboard..i sometimes tend to agree..

i must say i have never heard so many antisemitic comments in my life 

but then again i have only lived in the USA ( outside of Israel) 

at the same time i have to say i would find it very painful to study the holocaust while living in europe

it would make me feel that everyone cooperated through their silence

I feel it is very important that people become exposed to other cultures

i myself am very interested in other cultures and i wish that people would

be more open to see beyond sterotypes

sometimes i catch myself too getting caught up with sterotype thinking

even one of seeing the swiss in which case i remind myself never to

see people as masses but as individuals , something very difficult as

there is such a strong force of socialization in shaping one's views..

I am curious how you feel living in europe and reading that report ?

I am also interested to know how this knowledge will be applied ?

Did you ever watch the film "the boat is full"? it is about the swiss 

during ww2 turning back jews to Nazi Germany and let us not forget 

the swiss suggested that Jews would have to declare themselves as Jews 

in their identity cards during WW2

The swiss still ask you to fill in your religion whenver you register in a place

of living or hospital etc which i dont understand 

Switzerland is one of the two countries ( sweden being the second) who 

had outlawed jewish (and moslem ) ways of slaughter

claiming it is abusive to animals even though the Jewish law actually claims

it is a much faster way to kill animals ( i am vegeterian and dont know enough about slaughter and am against all killing of animals )

When asked what the moslems and jews should do , a swiss  law maker  at the time the law was passed said 

"If the jews and moslems dont like it they can emigrate"

which shows you the attitude

In order to understand the swiss during WW2 it is important to also take into 

consideration the xenophobic laws against other religions 

and as  for the swiss banks during WW2, it is a whole can of worms of course

but the fact that a swiss person actually exposed the swiss banks holding 

on to money of victims of the Nazis reminds us that there are good people 

everywhere and their actions are to be noted as well.

Thank you for letting me lecture, it is a rainy day 

Good luck with your studies 

a very important subject as antisemitism is on the rise 

i read today on www.haaretz that in kiev Jewish and Moslem leaders met 

to talk about how to combat racist actions which is a light in the dark i suppose.

Star, 

You raise alot of good points. Even before the Germans stamped a red 'J' in Jewish passports, the Swiss had already conceived of, and enforced, the idea. Further, the Swiss had a very strong policy of only accepting refugees between 1933-1945 of persons persecuted because of their political acts. Those seeking asylum because of persecution because of  religious, ethnic, or national were not to be admitted. 

The Swiss played a tricky game during WWII. On the one hand, they housed Allies and Axis powers and spies. They put up with Allied planes crashing into their factories and homes because crews would bail out and desert the plane, leaving it to crash where it may once it left hostile territories. On the other hand, the Swiss did house factorie which built arms for the Germans. 

I leave Translator to break down the Swiss system of banking  deception, as she is far more informed and cogent on this issue than I am. 

They were  under a very real threat by Hitler, from 1940 to at least 1943. The Nazis fully intended to invade Switzerland, following the surrender of France. Surrounded on all sides by hostile and very aggressive parties, who could blame the Swiss for their actions?

But is that enough to justify standing by and letting Jews be massacred, sometimes in their own land? 

Now, in the present day, it is discouraging still to see such blatant anti-Semitism, in its many, many forms, even here in cosmopolitan Geneva. However, I'm lucky. Jews were horribly persecuted through the war, but we are not lacking in voices to remind the world of this. Likewise for the POWs, the homosexuals, the dissidents, and others. 

But what about the Roma? They are still seen as lice on the blond locks of Europe. We saw in an earlier thread how badly they were disparaged, by even our own friends. And significantly, there was what, one? person of Roma descent who was able to speak back to all those comments. The fact that the Roma are still in a situation of such degradation and are unable to have the kind of access to jobs and travel that we take for granted, the same kind of access that makes posting and debating on threads such as these during the work day. 

Anyway, some thoughts to add to your own on this very very rainy afternoon.

Gut shabbos, by the way ;)

Hi Ariel

There is definitely a need to research the swiss during the war

confronted with their past the swiss might think twice before claiming to be neutral

being conscious is the first step towards change

It is interesting to note that while many claim to have feared Hitler, he came

to power in 1933, the racist laws he passed came gradually till the" final

solution  ", he had many allies including the mufti of Jerusalem, twho made

a deal with Hitler concerning the jews of Europe and they cooperated against

what they saw as a common enemy .  

Switzerland took some refugree,one of them is the famous "Dr. Ruth" , who became a media star in the USA  but she wrote in her autobiography how she came to switzerland as a teenager all alone with other children separated from their parents in hope they would survive the war 

she worked long hours taking care of children ,cleaning and washing at the young age of 13.

She said in an interview on the swiss tv she was always grateful for the swiss for having saved her life

One day i spoke to an elderly woman on the bus and she told me how difficult the war years were, pointing to the  primary school where my son had gone to in kreis 2 she said she remembered the school was taken over by war refugees.

Incidently there was an underground jhiding jews during the war not far from where i live in  the sihl valley  , i forget the historian who did work on that, he gave a talk at the jewish community center which i did not attend  but that is to be mentioned too.

It is difficult to imagine what people had gone through at difficult times and certainly are still going through these days all over the world,

I think your work is an  important reminder that no one was innocent during the war years, and definitely not neutral

let us hope in the future the lesson will be learned and there will be tolerance to people from different cultures and ways of living.

Have a good night

May the sun shine tomorrow in more ways than one

shavua tov