Sanity and diplomacy personified there. Three cheers for Mr. Kushner.

one comment on youtube  there said the following 

" i completely support the foundation of a palestinian state once they killed 

off all their gay people"

I think it is absurd the way people cheer the foundation of a state that has

no basic  foundation, if tomorrow the palestinian state was to come into

being a reality, what would they state as their raison d'etre

people like this clown you admire ignore the basic fact that the palestinian people rejected the two state solution offered to them

and that the representative of the palestinian people in jerusalem was in fact

a friend of Hitler

The Hamas speaks against the state of israel and declares a very clear

intention of destroying the state of Israel just the other day

the Hamas declared that osama bin ladin was a moslem hero

If there  were the peaceful  palestinian people  manics and marksist insist on 

admiring for their great suffering you would expect them to have a leadership

that would reflect their values

The problem is that your idea of the palestinian and the great hope and the reality are so different 

i too wish very much for a peaceful co existence but the politicians that 

represent the palestinians are the danger to the palestinian people not Israel

and people who attack israel and not the palestinian political leaders who intice for war 

are not only going about it the wrong way, they are attacking israel period 

and not doing the palestinians who truly want peace or who are in any way 

different than the extreme militant wing any favor at all 

if you want to encourage peace for the palestinians and a formation of a palestinian state 

then go after those who are standing in the way and declaring a clear 

intention of destroying the other side

but then again that would mean not attacking israel and what it stands for

and isnt that the whole idea after all ? if it wasnt you would also address

the dire need of a good palestinian leadership that promotes peace, enlightment and a good education system for the palestinians , one not 

focusing on killing the nonbelievers

I don't know the origin of the quote as her first sentence. But beyond that, I don't see a single sentence in that above post that couldn't be cogently argued.

One thing I know for certain whenever I see her post is that I won't, repeat, won't see some nasty personal comment to another person on here. So, here's an idea. Back off.

@Star: I'd have happily replied with your post as a quote

but my Enter key is stuck to the floor by chewing gum

or maybe something as innocent as a missile.

Here's the deal -

you WILL find a million reasons to disagree

with everything remotely related to this topic.

No one is defending violence here,

as your post makes it seem.

It's easy to create war,

as you may agree.

The challenge

is -

- to listen & understand different perceptions
- to find reasons to agree and accept reality, as is
- to look for peace. In mind, in discussion and therefore, in life

The hardest therefore, is to look for peace.

I hope you agree.

Some 10 year old kid could have written that stupid comment on youtube.

Again, you may agree - kids too are conditioned to create war.

It is therefore, incorrect to assume that they will be of

a certain race, certain religion to have the capability to do so.

The point of my post is -

Is your youtube excerpt important or funny enough to be quoted here?

Does it contribute to Bob Marley's goals of World Peace,

which we just exchanged a cpl of days ago?

Or was Bob just a stoned jack-ass, who Jah-Jah-ed his way through utopian hippie music, like those who prefer war make it seem?

@Other Folks: Sorry about the length of the post.

In the interest of freedom of speech and the freedom to disagree and even the freedom of some to hate and write hateful diatribes I suggest that Yossi Gurvitz also has the right to freedom of speech :

"I’ll address three issues with the pamphlet. The first is rather minor: Segal and Tadmor deal, in their last chapter, with the pro-Nazi activities of the Grand Mufti, Haj Amin El Husseini, trying to use him as a way to smear the entire Palestinian national movement as pro-Nazi. This is rather daring, coming from Im Tirzu: The movement is proud of the volkist Avraham “Yair” Stern, to the point of selling t-shirts with his image. Stern’s terrorist organization, known as the Stern Gang, made at least two attempts to reach an alliance with the Nazis, based, among other issues, on their commonly shared ideology – which, as any look at Stern’s political thinking will show (Hebrew), was indeed similar. So, if you’re a Jewish ultra-nationalist and you’re conspiring with the Nazis as they herd Polish Jews into ghettos, Im Tirzu will issue you a kosher certificate". 

Saturday, May 14 2011|Yossi Gurvitz

Rightwing group publishes Nakba denial booklet

Reheating old propaganda myths and taking historical facts out of context, Im Tirzu’s latest publication claims Nakba is “bullshit”

(I am Yossi Gurvitz, a 40-year old journalist, blogger and photographer.

I write for several Israeli publications, including the influential financial daily Calcalist and the Nana portal. In the past, I’ve been deputy editor of Nana News, and with Itamar Shaaltiel edited its 2006 Knesset elections section.

I was raised as an Orthodox Jew, graduated from a Yeshiva (Nehalim), but saw the light and turned atheist at about the age of 17. After the mandatory three years in the military, much more strictly enforced in 1988 than now, I studied history and classics, earning a BA degree, and studying three additional years towards an MA, but abandoned the project in favor of earning my living as a journalist. [It seemed a good idea at the time.) http://972mag.com/rightwing-group-publishes-nakba-denial-booklet/

As for the quote i gave that i saw on youtube, i find it actually quite appropriate

i come from a city which accepts diversity and so when i think of what the palestinian state will be like i think it will not likely to allow any jews, anyone who does not go according to the rules of hamas which is nobody different

an exemple is the peace activist gay man whose mother is jewish and father

palestinian who worked with kids in Jenin bringing them culture and theater

and was shot several times in the center of town not too long ago

because he dared to put up the play "animal farm"

I am not going into so called clever arguments by bringing exceptions

but the point is that when Israel was on the way to becoming a state

there was nearly a civil war BUT the extremists did not win,  

However way you look at it you guys dont have to live with it

you dont have to deal with terror or rockets so it is easy to quote 

all kinds of idealists and people who have no clue about the violence

Bob Marley also had songs called "stir it up" and "stand up for your rights"

and what about the rights of jews who were refugees to return to their land?

why must the jews give up jerusalem while the moslems have mecca and medina and 22 countries?

Israel made a lot of sacrifices for peace and our prime minister said there would be more IF peace was a possibility 

but so far rumours of peace have been only rumours

rockets, attempts to kill our citizens and after having given up control 

over Gaza 

If you are so clever Marksist you figure out a way to survive as a jewish

entity within an area that is ruled by extremist regimes and instablity 

where violence is the way and try to bring them flowers 

look jews have been peaceful throughout history, they walked into the gas

chambers most of the time without giving a fight

but even before that jews figured out that 2,000 years of being massacred

were enough, and sorry to say but there is no proof that the Palestinians

actually want peace

they constantly make declarations of how they want to destroy zionism which

means the state of Israel

and i hear such negative things about Israel but go visit there and compare

can jews go to arab countries? no, can they be voted into parliment ? no 

can they make speeches in their parliment against the government ? no

Can gay and christians and women get voted into the parliments of the 

Moslem countries ? no

Regarding freedom of speech that means that you are open to hear everything and i am as long as it is not that mental slavery Bob is singing about

all i read are slogans where behind the words are no deeds

Peace is a beautiful concept but how can you trust the palestinians 

when again and again they reject any compromise and have done so 

since the UN partition?

Yes, there should be changes and i would have loved to have helped out 

personally, as i have studied with Arab students and even had moslem

pupils when i was teaching but i tell you one thing you extremists who 

put down Israel have no idea what freedom of speech is because 

you follow empty ideas and slogans

It is absurd to demand Israel do compromises and give while the other side

declares CLEAR intentions to destroy Israel 

the double standard towards the palestinians works like this 

they can vote in an extreme violent regime and Israel 's democratic liberal 

society is compared to the Hamas as if there are similar values

but there are none

In israel a man like Kutschner can be homosexual but not in Gaza or in Moslem lands 

that is what the youtube comment meant

as for freedome of speech it should allow ALL ideas

I feel it is a waste of time to talk about peace when you dont really understand

what it means to people having to live with paying the price and then 

getting violence and then getting criticism from europeans who dont feel 

any guilt or responsibility for thousands of years of violence towards jews.

And the worst are Jews who now have a secure place to go to in case anything like the holocaust should ever happen and who attack their own people who did not have the possibility to immigrate to the west

Dont forget the Jews in Israel are not there by choice but there was no 

country that would open its doors to more than a few and dont forget

the Jews did not displace Palestinians they went home the only home

they ever had, the fact that palestinians were displaced was because

they rejected a compromise and wanted ALL of Israel and they still do

Have a good day

stir it up by Bob Marley who sang about Zion not about Gaza

and think about why ?

why would he not sing about the wonderful values extreme moslems have given the world ? 

@Star: Probably because Bob didn't care about things that didn't touch his life or his environment, in the time he lived? May peace be upon him.

One day, when Native Americans are familiar with the life & works of Bob, they too may hear "Stand Up for Your Rights" and ask everyone to leave their continent because Wikipedia says it's their only home.

We can all blame Bob Marley, Gandhi & The Queen of Sheba for war then, for stuff they didn't do!

You see, I'm on your side. I hate Marksist too, yet he thanks me for it and invites me to join his Martian radical atheist group that wants to destroy our special 'handpicked by God' status. And I thank him for providing us equal opportunity.

P.S. 

I apologize for the VERY long speech 

I find it painful to argue with people who have so little compassion for the sacrifices Israelis make for peace

and i understand that people dont see that from europe but i want to make it 

clear that i am very much for dialogue and for negotiating a lasting peace

however i think we have to be realistic about the partner for peace

and i dont think that it is possible to make peace with extremists

who declare they want to destroy Israel

i have a lot of compassion towards the palestinians and their suffering

and wish they would have the possibility to live in peace 

but as long as they embrace an extreme regime they can not accept 

Israel to accept the violence and hate with flowers

Just so you know i want the palestinians to have the same as the jews 

but i just dont know how it can be possible and dont forget the palestinians 

are encouraged to do extreme acts by the 22 countries around them 

I just wish there would be more criticism of extreme regimes that dont 

value diverstiy and human rights and Israel is not one of those regimes

every country has its extremists but israelis are not brainwashed to hate 

arabs ,if there are exceptions , they are not the rule and not the majority

An Arab that kills an Israeli by jamming a truck in his car will face trial not lynch by the masses

and i regret every time anyone is killed but be aware that Israel must secure

its country for its citizens as every country did

Obama said if someone was throwing rockets at the room where my daughter was sleeping i would do everything to stop it

you can argue about the USA killing people too but the fact is that you can

not allow extreme regimes to do as they please , bullies must be stopped 

but Israel is not a bully but a free society where there is freedom of speech 

even a discussion like this , but i find it different when we live in europe to judge tiny israel surrounded by extreme violent  regimes 

one on one people can and should get along no matter what their religion or gender or nationality is but politicians and tyrants ruin it for all of us 

that i agree  but I dont agree that israel is extremist or tyrant due to the cards

dealt and the other players, it is not an easy situation in which to survive

Even stellar performers are allowed freedom of speech and to turn it into diatribes but who is bullying who and who is trying to destroy who?

http://972mag.com/james-longley%e2%80%99s-groundbreaking-%e2%80%9cgaza-strip%e2%80%9d-is-now-free-online/

Should freedom of speech include the right to talk about the Nakba and ask police questions?

http://972mag.com/nakba-law-inside-pandoras-box/

http://972mag.com/why-jews-need-to-talk-about-the-nakba/

http://972mag.com/top-cop-smacks-arab-lawyer-in-the-face-at-nakba-demo/

The hate is mutual but unlike you I have a serious reason for mine and that is your intergallactic theft of beer - I can't find any in my fridge now and have my suspicions why!  And I take exception to your depiction of us martians as atheists - we praise Mars as the one and only of many gods.

@Star: Why you didnt answer my question at the Manic1984 forum? Are you pro or against the colonisation in the westbank?

Please find below just facts for information with their sources about the conflict.

124 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 1,452 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

Source: Remember These Children, a coalition of groups calling for an end to the killing of children and a fair resolution of the conflict. (View the complete list of the victims, which was last updated on September 7, 2010.

Source: B'Tselem, The Israeli Center for Human Rights in the Occupied Territories. (Visit their statistics page, last updated Oct. 31, 2010.)

The source for US military aid to Israel during Fiscal Year 2011 is the Congressional Research Service’s “U.S. Foreign Aid to Israel,” written by Jeremy M. Sharp, Specialist in Middle Eastern Affairs, updated September 16, 2010. According to this report, the Obama Administration requested $3 billion in Foreign Military Financing (FMF) for Israel for the fiscal year 2011.

Source: Addameer Prisoners’ Support and Human Rights Association (as of January 1, 2011)

Statistics Source: The Israeli Committee Against Home Demolitions estimates that 24,813 houses have been demolished in the West Bank, East Jerusalem and Gaza since 1967 (as of July 28, 2010). (Read ICAHD's latest analysis of demolished homes and view relevant maps.)

Source: According to B’Tselem's 2010 summary, there are 124 official Israeli settlements and 100 informal outposts, and 12 Jerusalem settlements on Palestinian land. Peace Now’s interactive settlement map shows the name, location, and population for each settlement and outpost on Palestinian territory, all of which are considered illegal under international law.

Just for your information guys, all my posts are not updated on the front page, it looks like I have been censured. Besides I haven't been informed about this by the administrator of this website... Well I don't think I was more extrem in my posts as Star was so I don't understand...

Haha...I knew you'd fall for that. You accuse my planet of stealing your beer, while we're actually making your women and children grow weed for us in your out-of-fashion bomb shelters.

Before you find fault with our venture, remember - we have taken utmost care to ensure they don't smoke one bud - We don't want no employees getting too happy and comfortable.

Ah, I knew it...there had to be a common ground for hatred. We'd added your God to our database & a few light years ago, with a profile picture as well.

We can now hate each other more, since we are oh-so-similar.

P.S.: I thank all fellow posters for their humble efforts to move Freedom of Speech into the larger political arena.

Don't worry, mon frere. The forum-post has now been upgraded to special, protected status into an area with extended freedom of speech.

There's one wise man I'd like to quote here:

With great power (read: freedom) comes great responsibility.

- Spiderman's Uncle (who invented the world-wide-web)

I'm pretty sure there is no other hidden agenda other than - Upholding World Peace!

Well that explains my wife and children's absence - never thought she'd arun off with an illegal alien though.  So demeaning.  And yet so helpful!  Mercy buckups.  But  where's my beer bud-lite?

I don't know. Try asking your God.

If you don't find answers, let us know. We have folks here who'll find a way to blame the Middle East crisis or the CIA for your missing bud-lite.

Felipe - you have not been censored.

This whole post, and many others, were moved to the 'Politics & Current Affairs' forum. Posts to the "Politics & Current Affairs" are not shown on the home page (whether they're by you, or Star, or anyone else).

Oded

I would ask him but he's in an angry mood with me for my attempts at peacful co-existence with alien creatures.  If you blame the ME or the criminal indelible agency will that mean my beer will be returned by trained SEALs?

Thank (our) God for 'beer rights' on our planet. We are forced to look at beer neutrally and do what is to be done with it, irrespective of its origins or state-of-mind.

Not treat it like a lowlife human who can be influenced by cultural, religious or political agendas.

We'll let you pray to our God, just this once. But we want that bud-lite, in exchange.

Thanks Oded,

To be honest I am disapointed that you waited my post to move this forum on the 'Politics & Current Affairs', it gave me the impression that my post was the incorrectly political. In my opinion it should have been done before, the Star's posts were too agressive (it happens quiet often...) and suggested that some people in this forum support the point of view of some extremists...

Hi Felipe,

To be honest, this thread slipped under my radar and I did not notice it until someone sent me a message about it, otherwise I would have moved it much sooner.

Oded

@David: It is impossible for world justice to happen before World Peace. Else, 'justice' would have no meaning. What's the use of a law that hasn't been explained, understood and agreed upon by all stakeholders?

World Justice cannot be enforced, it has to come with the acceptance on all sides. The problem today is - the differences in opinion about "What makes World Justice?"

And the answer to that ultimate question is - 42. I hope you'll disagree, so that we can throw vegetables at each other.

The basis of any truly civilized society is peace. Those who deny people peace are permitting the greatest injustice of all. Justice exists with the very idea of upholding peace.

I'm only surpised to see how Stars and Davids can fight each other, over a cause that has been struggling to find peace with itself.

Well, it's a cruel world and thanks for trying hard to prove it to me; by repeatedly attempting to show down a fellow Glocals member in Switzerland. For THAT is exactly what will solve the Middle-East crisis...

Academic freedom is another aspect of freedom of expression.  In the video with and news about Tony Kushner it is ironic this story involves City University of New York because as Kushner himself says CUNY has a reputaion already for stifling free speech.  Voted the best Professor of Political Science by his students and praised by many fellow staff as well as intellectuals around the world, Norman Finkelstein whose whole family besides his mother and father were exterminated by the abominable atrocity of the Nazi Holocaust, was fired from his position for voicing criticism of Zionism and the state of Israel.  He was later denied tenure at DePaul University despite glowing praise by students and fellow staff. http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norman_Finkelstein

Another target of the attempt to silence unwelcome speech is Ward Churchill, falsely accused of plagiarising.  And the irony here is incredible because he was accused of plagiarising himself!!  He was awarded a token one dollar in  damages and lost his position at the University of Colorado. http://www.counterpunch.org/leupp06232007.html  http://wardchurchill.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward_Churchill

And speaking of plagiarism it was the plagiarist Harvard law professor Alan Dershowitz who was instrumental in getting Finkelstein denied tenure at DePaul.  For more on the plagiarism of Dershowitz - he plagiarised the thoroughly discredited book by Joan Peters called From Time Immemorial which purported that Palestine was empty - see 'Beyond Chutzpa' at: http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/category/beyond-chutzpah/

These are but two examples of stifled free speech and an organisation that vigorously engages in free speech suppression is Campus Watch including the usual suspects: http://www.campus-watch.org/article/id/9591

@Felipe - please don't post threads/replies directly targeting another member.

And before you acuse me of being biased (again) let me assure you that If someone posted a thread that said 'the problem with Felipe is that...' I would remove that post too.

Oded 

You've got a lot of nerve to say you are my friend.  First you abduct my family without letting the wife prepare some meals to store in the freezer and without the children cleaning their rooms.  You call me an atheist and now want to convert me to your joyless astrological religion making me an infidel.

Well this buds for you alien!

I said I THINK, it was just a supposition and not an accusation.

I think some people it is hard to be objective, I have the impression they will never admit facts which comdemned or blamed their countries. Also I dont understand I have asked Star several times her opinion about the colonisation and she never replied, I am wondering why?

Hope this post is better than the first one.

@Felipe: Voila, that helps. The direct nature of the language we converse in, makes it worse than it is meant to be.

We all want to protect ourselves and our future generations from extremists and it is that fear that gives extremists (on all sides) a voice in the first place.

Attacking what they think gives them their strength is exactly how you don't help them overcome their rejections towards a certain set of (other) people.

We could attack the objectivity, if we have a problem with it - but the person or the nation or the race or the religion? Why, even if the other person does it? For they are exactly the excuses for dividing people in the first place, resulting in the radical opinions.

Everyone comes with a certain cultural-conditioning. Let's accept it - People think in their own languages, even if 'we' express ourselves here in English. Which comes with a lot of other baggage. Plus post-traumatic stress, at times.

While hitchiking around the universe abducting, enslaving and worst of all quaffing my beers (yeah right, you're using them to irrigate the Middle East and make the desert bloom) did you ever fly into a chrono-synclastic infundibulum?  Because you certainly seem to get around a lot.  My fridge is empty again and I've only just got back from the store!  How can we ever have world peace and/or (you may choose) justice if beer is not equitably distributed among all alcofrolics. Your disingenuousness astounds me - could you teach it to me?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sirens_Of_Titan

Friends!  The EU who endorses the blockade of Gaza, although they 'seem' to have lost a good one in Egypt.

@Marksist: Damn, that's some amazing planet you guys live in. Down here on earth, we men have to do all that!

I called you an atheist before we agreed upon common Gods. You cannot pick up differences retroactively, especially after our Gods "Like" each others pages on their social network.

We on earth, are made of nerves. You'll find out when we send you a Visa to come here. In the meantime, enjoy the tribute to your planet by our most famous Alien, Steve Jobs' animation company.

Psst: Fellow earthlings, let's send him a Mastercard.

The missing video, restored from Andromeda.

Although intended as a Forum on free speech - and there has been plenty here (thanks glocals, Ode and bro. and glocalistas) - it has like so many other fora covered divergent topics.  These are important topics for regional and world (perhaps galactic Arun?) peace and so in the spirit of that peace I'd like to quote from Kurt Vonnegut: "Dear Friend,

May I have a minute of your time? We have never met, but I am taking the liberty of writing to you because a mutual friend has spoken highly of you as being far above average in intellect and concern for your fellow men.  The impact of each day's news being as great as it is, it is easy for us to forget quickly major events of a few days before.  Let me, then, refresh your memory on an event that shook the world five short years ago, and which is now all but forgotten, save by a few of us.  I refer to what has come to be known, for biblical reasons, as Armageddon.

Armageddon in Retrospect: Kurt Vonnegut

I'm sure now, your planet's made-up of clairvoyants. You seem to have exactly unearthed my outings to secret rave parties, while high on amphetamines and of course, the Spanish product called marijuana from your planet.

Let's make it a fair exchange, you give me your balls (I mean the crystal kinds that you use to spy upon our planet) and I'll throw in all our philistine wisdom, which is exactly for what we use our disingeneousness.

It's what we men on Titan call evolution and survival of the fittest - you earthling men should try it some day!  You may be made of nerves and I may be spineless but I've got backbone. I'll accept your VISA if the rates are low and accept mastery of your planet, women, beer and bud (marijuana) with the MasterCard.

Many thanks for the invitation, the chance to visit an exotic location, meet interesting people and kill them!

Quite correct about us seers (not the Roebuck type).  And we're all called Nostrodamus which sometimes makes it diffcult but ensures everyone listens when I speak.  I understand you have similar customs on your planet.

You are right. I apologize for every line that you take offense.

I was overtly sarcastic in that message, stepping over the line to the extent that I didn't see myself doing it.

The following is by no means, an explanation to the above:

A clearer, more neutral version is here: Blaming the sides that each other support for their past-actions - on a Glocals forum will not solve the Middle-East crisis.

I am aware, that you are on different sides, I was only trying to find common 'ground'. "Understanding someone's point of view" includes 

- Accepting that the person has a right to his/her own perception and therefore, opinion.
- Definitely not agreeing with everyone and everything.

For example: If you were to repeatedly quote a certain 'source' who disagreed with the very idea of my country, I would naturally dismiss your stance as combative. For the 'source' would disagree with every piece of information that is fed into my innocent brain. Right?

Very true. But we do not live in a world of absolutes. Add to that, not all humans accept that as the ultimate truth, as it goes against certain patriotic, cultural and religious beliefs.

Continuing with my example: There may be many who may accept your criticism as constructive.

But on whose side would you want me - the sole person you address, to be?

Voila. You would like freedom of speech but do not want others to exercise it equally, to the extent that you take 'exceptions'?

I bow to thy enlightened consiousness of saying one thing when it comes to yourself and 'interpreting' it differently when it comes to others.

Over & out.

And that, ladies and gents, is what we call an exit. 

Good job standing up to these thread bullies, Arun. 

I don't get it, David. On one side, you take 'exception' to something I say and point it out to me. I apologize - because I take the liberty to percieve, that from where you stand - it may have been offensive.

Eventually, you criticize the very reason I apologized, that is - of percieving how one's 'free speech' can affect others? 

As for the moderators, they have done enough, only to be blamed for every single action they take - because of the topic that is being discussed.

Peace out, my friend. It doesn't need to happen only on a Bob Marley thread. We're all real people out here.

It was neither publicly offensive & as I see it now, nor did it hurt your sentiments.

The idea of T&Cs for Glocals is to ensure peace with respect to its members and the environment that it is based.

I'm waiting in hope of Your Highness' disagreement, so that I can't shoot out another peaceful reply.

So any other examples of Freedom or the lack thereof of speech in this Freedom of Speech forum ©®

TradeMark

It was, I do. If I get my hands on Marksist's bud-lite, I'll give it to you.

Good idea. Wale kum Shalom.

No idea what you're talking about (probably better that way) as none of my buddies are light - they're all fat.  Too much beer consumption and women cooking for them.

Sharon kums like a whale.

I think this group is for you... See you there...

btw David R said "There is only one negative by-product of freedom of speech and that's the freedom for people like Star to write the absolute rubbish we have seen on Glocals for the last few months."

I said : "I think the problem with xxxxx, it is his/her objectivity..." I don't understand how it was more targeting...

@Felipe - you're right and I removed David's post.

Thanks

Oded

Dear Pilger,

Thank you. If you didn't make statements like these, we'd have never heard of you. Since your blog is so well-hidden on the world-wide-web and has never previously been quoted on our local forum. We didn't even know what you looked like, before you said the popular magic word, Obama.

It is also funny, that having had a career of a journalist, you still seem to have subjective apprehensions resulting in hardline judgments against "types of racists and/or supporters."

Yet, I am glad to know that there is one forward-thinking journalist in this world who continues to struggle in this noble quest of finding global evidence, after having passed the ultimate verdict. You would make a great world judge and it's truly unfortunate, that no one wants to make you one.

John, you may also question why I am concerned. Here's the answer: While you were at that political rally getting photographed by a Canon EOS 5D Mark II; the CIA, SIS, Hamas, UMP, UDM, IBM, ATM & Mosad outsourced all their core operations to 'secret' offshore locations. 

Now Mr. Pilger, here's the deal: If you let my dear friend go; I may let you buy him & me a beer.

Regards,

Arun

Dear Morrissey,

We are big fans of yours, for you too are vegetarian. But here, in my country (and the evil neighbouring ones, as our 'leaders' tell us), we misunderstand your lyrics, for obvious reasons. You sing songs and hide their meanings in some 'civilized' language, that we are still trying hard to learn.

Plus, you have not provided equal-opportunity to our kind by singing on Malayalis, Marathis, Tamils, Gujaratis, Assamese, Mizos, Goans, Lucknowi Nawabs, Rajputs, Kashmiris, Ladakhis, Punjabis, Haryanvis, Garhwalis, Biharis and many more, including mixed breeds of different classes and deluxe varieties of colonial mixtures.

You also club Bengalis as one, despite our fights for individual identities. We now have a state called West Bengal. But we don't have an East Bengal, for they turned it into Bangladesh.

Please do visit our country, for we have everything here; incuding authentic veggie tandoori items. It may also help your sex-life, as we have folks who will help you forget you need one. We don't have any - and you will learn, it is more fun that way.

Now, if you let my friend go; we'll try to stop fighting with our neighbours.

Regards,

You should know me. If not, ask Judge Pilger - he's already blogged about everyone & everything that anyone would ever to know.

Good point David. I mean clearly, when you think about it, racism and oppression can only lead to panic on the streets of London, not to mention Birmingham. And if you go further afield, it could even end up on the streets of Carlise, Dublin, Dundee and Humberside!, Heaven knows I’m miserable now just thinking about it! Let just hope that, we get what we want. Lord knows it would be the first time!

 And thank the Lord that these great men are voices in the wildernerness speaking out against racism!  Kinda like Michael Jordan needing "validation" from Stuart Smalley...

Your letter reminds me that how some people can only hear/see/understand people who they perceive resemble themselves.

Because after all, if Pilger is "a lone voice in the wildernerness" against racism, who are all those Israelis and US Jews and others around the world who protest against Injustice against the Palestinians?  

Who are all those others who protest against Obama's foreign policies?  

I suppose, as Kipling would say, it's the white man's burden.*

*See Sarcastics Anonymous

Here's a trailer and a clip from Tony Kushner's brilliant "Angels in America."  

Dear Translator,

How are you doing? We are well here. We hope you are in the same well there.

Bulls-eye. And call their own, people as they deem fit to suit the occasion. They choose man-made boundaries, races, concepts, Gods & even beer (can you imagine that?) to make wafer-thin lines, all to suit their own purpose.

General Obama has invited the wrath of thousands of protestors, because he has been unable to turn US and therefore, the world around on the first day he stepped into office.

The President of US has always been omni-powerful, omni-potent and omnivorus. Therefore, we all reserve the right to judge him for that. It makes no sense to us that the United States is also a democracy and has been one of the proponents of equal rights.

However, I take 'extreme offense' to your Kipling comment on people sans colour. Here's why:

Kipling was born in Bombay (now Mumbai), to English parents in a bldg opposite Victoria Terminus Railway Station (now Chattrapati Shivaji Terminus). The building is part of Sir J.J. School of Art (J.J. is Jamshetjee Jeejebhoy, an Indian).

All this makes Rudyard Kipling (no Sir for he even rejected knighthood) - a true-blue (cricket colours) Indian. Being one, he had no right to comment on the colour of other people of different colours, whether they be purple, pink or green.

I hope you agree, for if you don't, I may cry.

Please don't cry; I promise to offer you a beer...Some people took (and still take) Kipling seriously about that "white man's burden" thing...

On the topic of music, this year is the 40th anniversary of the hugely  influential album by Marvin Gaye titled, "What's Goin' On."  

"What's Going On is the eleventh studio album by soul musician Marvin Gaye, released May 21, 1971 on the Motown-subsidiary label Tamla Records.[1] Recording sessions for the album took place in June 1970 and March–May 1971 at Hitsville U.S.A., Golden World and United Sound Studios in Detroit, Michigan and at The Sound Factory in West Hollywood, California.

The first Marvin Gaye album credited as produced solely by the artist himself, What's Going On is a unified concept album consisting of nine songs, most of which lead into the next. It has also been categorized as a song cycle, since the album ends on areprise to the album's opening theme. The album is told from the point of view of aVietnam War veteran returning to the country he had been fighting for, and seeing nothing but injustice, suffering and hatred.

What's Going On was the first album on which Motown Records' main studio band, the group of session musicians known as the Funk Brothers, received an official credit. Featuring introspective lyrics about drug abuse, poverty and the Vietnam War, the album was also the first to reflect the beginning of a new socially conscious trend in soul music. What's Going On was both an immediate commercial and critical success and has endured as a classic of early-1970s soul...

In worldwide critics/artists and public surveys, it has been voted as one of the landmark recordings in pop music history and is considered to be one of the greatest albums ever made.[2] In 2003, the album was ranked number 6 on Rolling Stonemagazine's list of the 500 greatest albums of all time.[3]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What's_Going_On

I don't ignore British music completely... just the whiny bits..

If I didn't know you better, I'd accuse you of beiing (a) rude boy. And no intention to witewash ya!

The 'Thanks Poster' button only allows me to thank you once (for opening up my eyes) but let me (pardonnez mois mon franglais - Arun stole my beer and consequently my literacy) - vous remerci mille fois!

@Marksist:

Well, I don't like US whiny music either...so no discrimination or rudeness meant....

We people from Hitsville, USA *like to keep it real, my Anglo-Canadian brother...

For you, some Eminem and Model 500 (Detroit techno)

*See Motown, Detroit, The Arsenal of Democracy...

@Translator: Thank you. No tears, I'll take the beers. (It rhymes in plural).

When we translated this countryman's poem into our local languages, replete with metaphysical vernacular idioms, we found this: He was actually warning every tourist, who enter our...ports, thus mocking own people for our die-hard entrepreneurial spirit; of loudly offering our various types of outsourcing services to every man, woman or other li'l mini-Gods who come along. 

ScribblingPad (DO NOT POST): 

1) Check C:SafetyVaultKiplingsHindiCode-on-palm-leaves2earn-ur-2nd-beer.doc for Do we have any 'ports' back home?
2) Check Glocals T&C, Swiss Laws, Schengen Border Guard's Handbook and all International treaties governing promises of beer on Glocals forums.

I employ an old method of explaining from hereon that we employ frequently on the spicier part of our planet, (in Indian accent): 

"Don't ask me why, just learn it...it is very, very old. Sooooo old, that we don't know how old. One day, it will all make sense to you. One day." 

A beer lost is a cerveza earned, if the lost cerveza and the earned beer are opposite in direction and equal in magnitude. 

Conclusion: If I get my hands on David L's beer, I'll give it to you. :p

Some more Detroit Techno mix...medieval, hard to have missed by true fans of the genre.

Awesome!

At first I thought you were referring to whitey music and I grew red with rage as is the wont of martians.  So enraged I wanted as is my wont to correct you and point out the correct term -honky!

But later cooler heads (those with their heads in the beer cooler)  prevailed. I quaffed a Jonathan Pilsner that uber-Aryun hadn't managed to pilfer and enjoyed some coloured M&Ms enjoying your first video.  However I can't say the same for the second but appreciate it had something to do with speeding trains that even Arunner like our Ghandian Tamil Tiger aka it, could out arun earning him his place amongst super-uber-heros.

Thanks, de sistuh!

AC Comic Bro

Can't follow your ill logic (I need a translator).  However I agree with your conclusion.  You've got my vote and boat to go back to your sub-continent, source out some cerveza or beer - whichever comes first - and fill me up so that I can later expresss what's got inside me - you might want to return in a yellow sub as that would be apropos the intended purpose while avoiding unintended porpoises.

My beer friend Hades and I prefer these bells.  They tool for you!

Obliviously too many  of those pilferred Jonathan pilsners!  Those bells toll for you my Aryun tool.

In defense of Pilger who is not a lone voice but one of few who have informed me of the plight and history of Australian Aborigenes - so much like the story of Canadian aboriginals (stolen land, abrogated treaties, victims of alcoholism and diabetes and schools where children had their culture removed and were sexually abused).

Pilger has revealed the horrors of East Timor, the hunger crisis of Bangladesh, incarceration in Britain, the tragedy of thalidomide, the ill treatment of US Viet Nam veterans, being black in Britain, the generosity of Americans to Vietnamese boat people and so much more.

His book 'Freedom Next Time' is well worth the read in my view.  "John Pilger's work has been a beacon of light in often dark times". (Noam Chomsky)

Watch some (all) the films of John Pilger: http://www.johnpilger.com/videos

all lost in the global market, magnificent!

Well, there are many excellent documentarians exercising freedom of speech out there.  And we don't only have to see the world through the eyes of one gender or one nation:

Julia Bacha of Brazil: http://www.justvision.org/en/personnel/julia-bacha

"Most recently, Julia directed and produced Budrus (2009), about a Palestinian village's sustained nonviolent struggle to save their land from the route of the Separation Barrier. Julia also wrote and co-directed the feature documentary Encounter Point (Typecast Films, 2006), which follows the courageous efforts of Palestinians and Israelis who lost something precious to the conflict and are nevertheless working toward justice and peace in the Middle East."

Deborah Scranton is the director of The War Tapes, a documentary detailing the personal stories of soldiers in the Iraq War. It was the first of its kind in that she sent the soldiers video cameras so they can shoot raw footage of their actual, on hand experiences in combat. The film won several honors, including Best International Documentary at the Tribeca Film Festival and Best International Documentary at BritDoc in 2006.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deborah_Scranton

I hate to to repeatedly agree with your karmic-beer ping-pong from offensive & defensive ends. Pilger has earned sooooo many brownie points on our free speech forum, to suuuuuch extent that I am beggining to like him less than I used to, period*. *Period: A quick-fix word for all sorts of grammatical & other errors. Also displays exceptional macho characteristics.

Chomsky has correctly summed it up too; except we don't use beacons for information or optical telegraphy, we use computers. So we don't understand.

I promise, I will not make up mind about his ilk before I read all his views, books, critiques and see all videos, including those on birth control "Pill-gerance" & Pilp-Fiction. 

"Arunner like our Ghandian Tamil Tiger"

Shsh. I explained myself already - I cannot let such cross-border political incorrectness lie, whether flat or thro' the teeth. You choose to club the Tiger part together, because you know I was undercover, wearing dark glasses. Also, if you had to elaborate on all 999 lives & family names that I lived over 4 years, it would take 33.3 light years and 66 Turbo-Terra-bytes. The first video is for Jonathan de Pilsner.

"Those bells toll for you my Aryun tool."

Oh la la. This is exactly what I have been running away from - pre-8am temple bells by early-risers of the upper-caste. I hide myself far away in the vast lands of French parkour and you come to haunt me. Action: Target crystal balls. But beer comes first. 

"you might want to return in a yellow sub"

You've got version 2.3 from 1966. The upgraded 33.4.2 version, is on the pic below and 33.92 currently in development, on the 2nd video. I took the trouble of finding it in your Marsiski dialect. :p

Thanks,

AK74, 'Marquis' de Ghetto-Francais en Genevois.

@David (Post 89): Morrissey is already in far off places. What most people, (including himself) don't know is that he too is - Indian. His real name is Mukerjee. Comes from a virtuous Bengali vegetarian family, trips over himself while given a choice to accept or deny the existence of homosexuality and blames the English for having their own language (like I do) - Indian!

Lol @ Alcohol! Being born in the pot has made you different than us - we too abhor alcohol in the name of Free Speech, yet consume more Scaatch than your 'deja-high'lands could ever produce.

@Marksist: Sorry, that should have been 'Mars-is-sky dialect'!

More on Freedom & then connecting Free Speech (in a very cheap, one-size-fits-all way):

Liberty means responsibility. That is why most men dread it. - G.B. Shaw

Shaw has explicitly used 'men' here. Probably why we do not have many of the fairer, more-just sex joining us in this quest for ultimate freedom in the spoken way. Women at large perhaps, don't judge, dread or Judge-Dredd freedom the way men do. 

A nice Chinese perspective here which quotes it, actually just the first few words, so don't read it. It is not totally free, but I hope it's cheap, which at times, is better than free.

 posting  youtube videos , as i recall, was not going to be allowed in political posts 

I thought it was agreed there would be arguments made by people voicing their opinions 

I would like to say that i am unique in that i actually lived in the area discussed contrary to everyone else here on the thread ( except the people who run glocals and have  almost unlimited tolerance to ALL comments racist and all

who  make extreme declarations calling Zionism a crime

Here are some facts: 

Thanks to the British collaboration with the head of the Arab population 

of Palestine jews were denied entrance into palestine even though 

an agreement in san Remo promised jews a jewish homeland besides 

an Arab one, thanks to the collaberation between the Nazi regime and the Mufti of Jerusalem the British mendate ( lets not call THAT occupation or the colonization of India etc ) 

hung Jews for having weapons, denied jewish refugees entrance to palestine and kept them inside Nazi occupied Europe as no other country would let them in but a few.

Zionism began as a political movement because an Austrian journalist by the name of Theodore Herzel covered the trial of  Jewish French officer accused of treason without any ground , it came as a reaction to thousands of years of jewish persecution and murder throughout Europe and Moslem Lands.

Jews became refugees as a result of the Nazis coming to power and occupying Europe

Jewish refugees had come to Palestine before and would have come in greater numbers had it not been for England denying them entrance because they sought to appease the Arab population who strongly opposed letting Jews in and clearly rejected the UN decision for TWO lands

Still today the Palestinian authority is governed by Hamas a movement that declared clear intentions of destroying the Zionist enemy

Who are zionists ? evil people who want to occupy Arab land

or Jews who sought to return to their homeland, their only homeland as recognized by the UN and before in San Remo agreement and again

The Arab population in Palestine agreed then changed their minds about allowing jews in however what has to be clear is that the Jews were refugees who had been denied the possibility to live in Europe and in Arab lands

The truth of the matter is that the Jews were denied the possibility to live in Europe or Arab lands by the governing forces there and the slogan was

"Jews go to Palestine", the few who could did but many more who would have wanted to were deneid entrance by the British

Today Britian is a leader in boycotting Israel in various forms ; academic and otherwise.

Calling zionism racism is demonizing Israel and is a great insult to the very reason why zionism sought a solution for the jewish refugees in the land of Israel ( a,k,a, palestine) 

THERE WAS NO OTHER COUNTRY THAT WOULD TAKE THE JEWISH REFUGEES AT SUCH NUMBERS BUT ISRAEL (PALESTINE)

The reality of the Palestinians being displaced is a very clear result of the war that took place because the Arab population had rejected a two state solution

In 1967 several Arab armies invaded Israel seeking to destroy Israel and murder its jewish population, yes, that was what they wanted, they did not seek peace by invading , and Israel against all odds had not only managed to survive but conquered land.

Land that was seen as a secure border, for many of course the fact that the Arab population had to live under Israel rule was unacceptable and with this fact many Israelis also agree

What is in disagreement is what to do about the two state solution

israel declares that it is defintely still a possiblity but that for a TWO state

solution there needs to be a recognition of TWO states , one of those states

being Israel

A fact is that sadly today the Hamas not only does not recognize Isreal 's right to exist but it declares its intention of destroying Israel without any doubt.

The leader of the Palestinian people Abbas has reconcilled with Hamas which is a clear message to Israel about the intention of the political governing force of the Palestinian people

All that said no youtube videos will change that reality

Israel is living next to countries that seek to destroy it

the Palestinian people suffer from the situation but the demand asked of Israel to ignore the declarations and actions of the Hamas and to consider the Palestinian people's rights to a peaceful existence while the palestinian people continue to ignore the wish of Israel to survive as free jewish people in their own land is the problem

One can argue about the size of land, occupation but the fact is that still today the palestinian authority leadership does not accept Israel as having a right to exist which is why they throw rockets and smuggle weapons which leaves Israel no choice but to tighten security and block entrance to its territory and even though many want to enable the Palestinan people self rule and territory the violent reaction and declarations cast a great doubt on the possibility of  a peaceful co existence and so far there have been no deeds to back up the Palestinian's intentions of living at peace with a jewish state.

Besides constant videos of suffering Palestinians which can not be denied nor should they i have not seen any videos of suffering Jewish refugees who left europe with no possession , their homes and property and money stolen and refugees from Arab countries who had to leave Arab lands

There are now only a hand full of Jews living in Arab countries , in Iran there are a few dozen who live in great fear

there used to be MILLIONS of jews living in Arab lands, in Arab lands not only is entrance to Jews denied but jews can no longer live there.

Ii attended today a theater show with Arab and Jewish teenagers from Israel and they expressed the complexity of living together as they live together in an institution in the south of Israel

I posted this as an activity i did not see anyone from all those arguing HERE even remotely interested in attending the event

Too bad, it was lovely, there were Arab songs sung by both arabs and Jewish children and i saw a lot of work put in by the youth workers in allowing both ethnic groups to express their traditions and cultures

It was beautiful and i regret that not more people attended 

The insituation Neve Hanna was established by a Holocaust survivor who wished to form a bridge of tolerance between Arabs and Jews

There are several projects like this in Israel but none that i know of in the Palestinian territories

It is not a matter of poverty but a matter of priorities 

Saudi Arabia could sponser a lot of humanitarian projects with the oil money however of course you have to have humanitarian values in order to sponser humanitarian projects and let me reassure you in Israel there are a lot of voices for equal rights even amongst the rockets flying and threats to destroy Israel which takes a hell of a lot of courage under the circumstances

end of speech 

As for Muftis, Herzel and his reaction to Dreyfus try this on for size: http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/index.htm

And perhaps try to support your claims with some references - you might convince someone on some planet far far away who doesn't understand English and when they do, get tired after reading rants the size of War & Peace.

I am unique in being the only Canadian posting here and thus know everything about canada, its history, culture, poliitics, cusine, geography, climate, Moosehead beer (careful AA - Alien Aryun don't even take twelve steps towards those beers) and sense of humour.  Is that a good enough parody of stellar performance or not?

Aryun Alien and I ( a self confessed Groucho Macho Marksist) have traded taunts here and he has come out funnier than me.  The reason is he has outsourced his writing to me - a case of reverse colonisation (nothing to do with colons and their output).  I wish my Bengal tiger friend further success as it lines my pockets.

A further Stern warning to those who relate the stories concerning Muftis:

I’ll address three issues with the pamphlet. The first is rather minor: Segal and Tadmor deal, in their last chapter, with the pro-Nazi activities of the Grand Mufti, Haj Amin El Husseini, trying to use him as a way to smear the entire Palestinian national movement as pro-Nazi. This is rather daring, coming from Im Tirzu: The movement is proud of the volkist Avraham “Yair” Stern, to the point of selling t-shirts with his image. Stern’s terrorist organization, known as the Stern Gang, made at least two attempts to reach an alliance with the Nazis, based, among other issues, on their commonly shared ideology – which, as any look at Stern’s political thinking will show (Hebrew), was indeed similar. So, if you’re a Jewish ultra-nationalist and you’re conspiring with the Nazis as they herd Polish Jews into ghettos, Im Tirzu will issue you a kosher certificate.

Snarkiness aside, both the Stern Gang and the El Husseini supporters turned to the Nazis because they were Britain’s most prominent enemies; and Britain was widely hated in the Middle East at the time, since it was a colonial occupier of much of it. Segal and Tadmor mention the 1941 Baghdad pogrom, the Farhud; they fail to note that it was led by a sister fascist movement, which was a part of Iraqi resistance to British presence in the country. For much the same reason – mostly justified hostility towards the British occupier – the two Stern gang assassins, Eliahu Khakim and Eliahu Beit Zuri, who killed British Minister of State in the Middle East, Lord Moyne, become for a short while heroes of the Egyptian nationalist movement. Ignoring the complexities of history and retreating historia lacrymosa is, of course, an old Jewish tradition; Yet, one would still expect a bit more nuance in the 21st century. Not from Im Tirzu, apparently. http://972mag.com/rightwing-group-publishes-nakba-denial-booklet/

Yossi gurvitz is also a Jew living in Israel and working as a journalist ("I am Yossi Gurvitz, a 40-year old journalist, blogger and photographer.

I write for several Israeli publications, including the influential financial daily Calcalist and the Nana portal. In the past, I’ve been deputy editor of Nana News, and with Itamar Shaaltiel edited its 2006 Knesset elections section.

I was raised as an Orthodox Jew, graduated from a Yeshiva (Nehalim), but saw the light and turned atheist at about the age of 17. After the mandatory three years in the military, much more strictly enforced in 1988 than now, I studied history and classics, earning a BA degree, and studying three additional years towards an MA, but abandoned the project in favor of earning my living as a journalist. [It seemed a good idea at the time".])

He might know a thing or two of what's going on and gone on in Israel.

And more on Herzel and Dreyfus: 

"In the severest sense, Herzl was a man of his time and class; a monarchist who believed the best ruler “un bon tyran”. [2] His Jewish State baldly proclaimed: “Nor are the present-day nations really fit for democracy, and I believe they will become ever less fit for it ... I have no faith in the political virtue of our people, because we are no better than the rest of modern man.” [3]

His universal pessimism caused him to misjudge totally the political environment of late-nineteenth-century Western Europe. In particular, Herzl misunderstood the Dreyfus case. The secrecy of the trial, and Dreyfus’s soldierly insistence on his innocence, convinced many that an injustice was done. The case aroused a huge surge of Gentile support. Kings discussed it and feared for the sanity of France; Jews in remote hamlets in the Pripet Marches prayed for Emile Zola. The intellectuals of France rallied to Dreyfus’s side. The socialist movement brought over the working people. The right wing of French society was discredited, the army stained, the Church disestablished. Anti-Semitism in France was driven into isolation lasting until Hitler’s conquest. Yet Herzl, the most famous journalist in Vienna, did nothing to mobilise even one demonstration on behalf of Dreyfus. When he discussed the matter, it was always as a horrible example and never as a rallying cause. In 1899 the outcry compelled a retrial. A court martial affirmed the captain’s guilt, 5 to 2, but found extenuating circumstances and reduced his sentence to ten years. But Herzl saw only defeat and depreciated the significance of the vast Gentile sympathy for the Jewish victim.

If a dumb beast were tortured in public, would not the crowd send up a cry of indignation? This is the meaning of the pro-Dreyfus sentiment in non-French countries, if indeed it is as widespread as many Jews estimate ... To put it in a nutshell, we might say that the injustice committed against Dreyfus is so great that we forget that we are dealing with a Jew ... is anyone presumptuous enough to claim that of any seven people two, or even one, favor the Jews? ... Dreyfus represents a bastion that has been and still is a point of struggle. Unless we are deceived, that bastion is lost!" [4] http://www.marxists.de/middleast/brenner/ch01.htm

My sequel to War and Peace.

i believe that when people send me messages apologizing for not having enough understanding of middle east politics to argue they actually stand behind their words rather other people's chewed up words and other people propoganda videos 

havea good day and a better tomorrow 

enjoy your middle east battles behind your computer and your discussions of love behind youtube 

a selected reading of history 

well to quote Albert Einstein , a Zionist , 

there are two things that are infinite and that is space and human stupidity 

and may i add youtube videos quoting and misquoting of history 

canadian, British, Dutch, Swiss whatever a person is i fail to see the motivation of visious slandor of Israeli people whose net you are actually priviledged to post on so you have a raison d'etre and ability to interact in the only way you can through poisonous posts 

i did not see you at the theater performance last night of jewish and arab children singing in arabic and hebrew hope for peaceful co existence

and i suppose we will miss your contribution to that insitution and other 

institutions working to build a bridge between arab and jewish people 

and i expect a flood of quotes and youtube as an answer

contridicting every word i write

but then again miracles might happen

and you might find love and give humanity a try  

In my opinion the zionism is a danger for peace as much as the rockets sent from Gaza. I tried often to discuss with people who defined themself as zionists just about facts and believe me It is very hard to talk with some of them who are persuaded to accomplish a divine mission. The zionism sees the Palestinians as intruders in Israel/Palestine.

Obama said on his speeche of the 19.05.2011 (http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110519/ap_on_re_us/us_obama_mideast) : 

"For Israelis, it has meant living with the fear that their children could get blown up on a bus or by rockets fired at their homes, as well as the pain of knowing that other children in the region are taught to hate them," 

 "For Palestinians, it has meant suffering the humiliation of occupation, and never living in a nation of their own."

"Palestinian leaders will not achieve peace or prosperity if Hamas insists on a path of terror and rejection,"

 "And Palestinians will never realize their independence by denying the right of Israel to exist."

"The borders of Israel and Palestine should be based on the 1967 lines with mutually agreed swaps, so that secure and recognized borders are established for both states,"

I agree with what he said but I don't understand why the Netanyahu government is agaisnt the 1967 borders line.

Is the naked truth forbidden as well?!

The Nothing Yahoo has also made his point (threat) clear: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-13466910

I have no idea what you're talking about. I can send you some tikka-masala, trust me, it can help colons and semi-colons that you've hurriedly stuffed into rounded-brackets. 

I'm more concerned with the "Eeee Greque (Y)" that you vandalizingly insert into my name. I've done all I can to disentangle from the ancient Greek civilization, ever since they coined and subsequently invented paedophilia.

Also, like somebuddy* has told me, we shouldn't invite any of them unless they bring their own lukewarm brew, in their own Grecian urns, while singing their own odes in Basque!

* Somebody. Sooomebuddy; I won't tell you who.

Ευχαριστώ,

AK74 aka Apollo 13.1

Even though i wrote it myself (I think)(id therefore I am) errant errand boy, it's all Greek to me.

Ares(tottle)

@Marksist : Don't forget, Israel use violence just for self-defence. Colonisation on the Westbank is not considering as an attack on the Palestinian territories…

Ok Felipe, I'll bite on your Zionism comment. Here's what I think.

For some Jews Zionsim might indeed be a divine calling, but I think that's the minority and let's agree they're partly crazy.  

For most Jews tho, Zionsim is born of a harsh reality: history proves that as long as the Jewish people don't have a state of their own, they get slaughtered and picked on. So Zionsim, in it's most basic form, says "let's get a country for the Jews so that stops". That's the base concept, and it makes sense to me. 

The implementation of the concept is a bit harder...The bite-size version of how it's implemented: 67 years ago the UN voted and agreed that part of Palestine / Israel would be the land of the Jews. The local neighbors didn't agree, and a few days later the 1st of many wars broke out. With each war Israel got more land (and settlers that moved to that land), with each war the distrust and hate from both side grew. That's where we are today. 

Today is crap for both sides:  

The Palestinians don't have a real state, have a very tough daily life (mainly the ones in Gaza), and few prospects. Most Israelis actually realise this and are bothered by it. But...

The Israelis see Hamas (who rule Gaza) saying "give me back all the land, but I'll still do my best to destroy Israel anyway". So Israelies conclude giving back land is suicide, cos it means Hamas is now 20 min away from Tel Aviv. 

So the region keeps bleeding and people keep dying. If you have a good solution for what's going on there, post it...

David, 

I don't know who Pilger is, and I don't know the exact considerations of the Israeli government, but here's my take on your question.

The West-Bank and Gaza are 2 totally different things:

- Gaza is ruled by Hamas, who declared they want Israel eliminated by force regardless of Israel's borders. So the blockage on Gaza (and the famous wall around it) serves to protect Israel from attacks, and make it hard for Hamas to bring more weapons in. 

- The West Bank is ruled by The Palestinian authority, who is speaking with Israel and who is far more open to a peace process. There's no blockade on it, but there are Israeli settlments there with hundreds of thousands of people. I think (and I might be totally wrong) it's just a question of time before Israel pulls out most of not all of its settlements from there. I think it's more an internal political thing: any Israeli politician who decides to pull out hundreds of thousands of Israelis from the West Bank will face very strong internal pressure. And you need a strong politician for that...

On a broader note, of course Israel would prefer to play by international law, to not be "the bad guy", and to live in peace with its neighbors. But first, it needs to ensure its survival...

Nir

What is he (Pilger) failing to take into account?

Reality? That chooses to always exist on more than one side?

Living the truth is very different from choosing sides on the basis of documentary films, even if one has made them oneself, in 'foreign' languages. For reality (on each side), is an ever-changing phenomenon. 

The good part is, the elements on both sides can change. The bad part is - if we point at one or the other; none of them will change (because of our efforts). Especially if we're only watching a movie and yet think we're good enough to blame one or the other side. If we want to do something about it, we need to act, only after having consumed equal doses of 'current', real information on all sides.

Now, in the conflicting interest of free speech (& arguably, world peace) and conflicting opinions of an existing conflict...

...I'd like to turn our compasses more middle & more east, towards another well-carpeted, peaceful & purrfect, Persia.

These folks used to be 'our' evil neighbours and even did their bit by giving a nickname to our all-encompassing religion sans global identity; until the bubble burst & we exchanged humans with our own people to make other, brand new neighbours against whom, we could truly continue to fight.

Regards,

Markoji
(on behalf of AK74, who's waking up sleeping alien babies with psychedelic, yet peaceful sitar ringtones, to sell Mastercards...playtinum & at rates "toooo good," he wants me to add)

Malalai Joya has problems of freedom of speech in Afghanistan but fortunately not in the US.

More freedom of speech from the US.

Freedom (?) of speech and expression in Canada.

Athough not explicityly stated my intention was to get your impressions on how far freedom of speech should go.

Do you think there are any limits on such freedoms?

Should 'hate speech' be banned?  I don't think so as action speeks louder than words and sticks and stones may break my bones but words will never hurt me.

Should one be allowed to shout 'fire' in a crowded theatre (and draw the consequences - economic and legal as far as potential deaths/injuries from a mad rush to the fire escape doors)?  I think yes and they should draw the consequences.

Let's get away for a while from the Israel/Palestine debate and look/think further afield.

What do you think?

Your points reminded me of the celebrated Kurosawa film, Rashomon

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0042876/  (contested interpretations of an event). Here's an interesting NYTimes article expanding on that idea w.r.t. east Jerusalem... 

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/10/16/rashomon-in-east-jerusalem/

Yes images can be deceiving especially without the full picture.  When I view the video I see a car veering out of his lane which appears clear and driving directly into children on the wrong side of the road on which he should and could have been driving on.  But I don't have a 360 degree view nor of the moments preceding the accident.  The driver stopped and if it was his intention to hurt the children I can't see why he would have stoppped.  I assume he stopped out of concern and when he reassured himself the boy was OK and feared for his life (self preservation being a strong and understandable justified motivation) he drove on.  It's a shame these incidents happen and I find it morallly repugnant for a former Israeli diplomat and former AIPAC worker (conflict of interest?!) to suggest these events (and the shootings of innocent Palestinians by 'settlers' (who receive generous financial support and incentives from the Israeli government - so one solution to the problem of all those settleers is to stop supporting them!) and IDF are staged.

Next thing we will be told is that the Apollo moon landings were staged!  Or that violently sexually assaulted women had it coming because they dressed like sluts (as a Toronto police officer - not fired or reprimanded - told an audience including young women at a Toronto university recentl)y.

I agree wiith the Canadian Jewish authour who raises the issue of provocative settlements in East Jerusalem by Jewish extremists.  None of these occupations - East Jerusalem, West Bank and previously Gaza are naturally occurring phenomena like snowfalls and tsunamis over which the Israeli governments have no knowledge or authority.  They are the authority and enact laws and should enforce them, otherwise one must conclude Israel is a lawless state.  I don't think Israel is a lawless state but rather chooses which laws to enact and enforce.

In the end there will have to be some serious negotiating and the Israelis cannot claim as they often have that they have no partner  in negotiations (witness the Palestine Papers).  I don't see that Israel has any incentive to negotiate especially when America funds it to the tune of billions a year, supplies the latest modern weaponry and gives it unprecedented diplomatic support by virtually vetoing every UNSC resolution of Israel.  Rather than talk and speeches Obama, let's see some action like Bush Sr. did with Israel suspending military supplies and got Israel to do his bidding (the supplies were later given and Israel carried on with its policies known to the whole world but not to those who support unconditionally Israel). Action speeks louder than words!

if the Jewish canadian writer is so smart why did canada not let in the jewish refugees and make canada the jewish homeland? or at least give it a bit of that vast land 

and by the way what does the great jewish writer say about the native americans who had lived there before your jewish ancestors settled there and occupied their land ?

at least Israel has thousands of years of Jewish history to back up its claims

in archeology and history and what claim do you have over occupied 

native american land ?

It is very easy to quote all kinds of odd sources but the history of Jerusalem 

can not omit the occupation of Jerusalem by Jordan that justified the claim 

that Israel occupied Arab homes when in fact there is clear evidence

that the homes occupied were purchased by jews long before Jordan occupied east Jerusalem in 1948 

Jordan is another place that should have been the palestinian state 

but let us omit in your hate of the jewish state that fact and how the palestinians were treated in neighboring lands by their moslem brothers

used for two purposes:

To get rid of the Jewish land

to get rid of the Palestinians and not give them a home 

Israel housed many Jewish refugees that could not get a visa to canada 

during world war two 

perhaps as a canadian jew you can research why exactly canada could not 

let in Jews? or the USA or other countries ? 

and now they want Israel to take care of the Palestinians and provide them 

a home 

It is not Israel's fault that the leaders of the palestinians insist on rejecting 

compromises and therefore creating a situation where Israel can not trust 

that again in return for land the palestinians would provide rockets and 

not keep to the agreements

The one sided focus on the wrong doing of Israel ignoring the dangers

of the violence on the side of the Palestinan authority that does not stop 

to call for war is not only not logical it is not moral and definitely not a claim 

one who wants peace should support

Peace should be supported by demanding both sides be held accountable 

for their words and actions

but the fact that you sit on your ass and post anti Israel posts constantly 

while living in a country that has not known war in 400 years

does not back up your claims at all 

I first learned about the MS St. Louis by reading Noam Chomsky, a Jew.  It is a shameful moment in Canadian history as is our treatment of Canadian natives.  My favorite political writers are Jewish: Chomsky, Howard Zinn, Gabriel Kolko, Eric Hobsbawm to name just a few.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MS_St._Louis

Yes, but Obama also needs support from the US Congress which holds the purse strings in the US system of government!

The US system of government has 3 co-equal branches and many people do not fully understand or appreciate the power of the purse strings held by Congress.

The last US president who knew how to handle the US Congress most effectively was Lyndon Baines Johnson.  That is precisely why he got so much vital social  and civil rights legislation passed.

That is why the work of J Street and that of other US progressive Jewish groups is so important to countering the often nefarious influence of the American-Israel Public Affairs Committee.  They can provide "cover" for members of Congress who want to support a more progressive approach.

What some people don't understand is that Obama has been getting and taking a great deal of heat from right-wing Christians and others who are saying he is anti-Israel because he has yet to make a state visit to Israel.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article7076431.ece

Finally, the Europeans need to get off the stick and start bringing some pressure to bear on the situation as well.  Good for Angela Merkel for telling Netanyahu

 http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition/news/merkel-chides-netanyahu-for-failing-to-make-a-single-step-to-advance-peace-1.345539

Many thanks!

Many familiar names: McQauig one of Canada’s greatest political writers to be found at Common Dreams among other sites (have a few of her books - It's The Crude, Dude, Holding The bully's Coat, Shooting The Hippo, The Cult of Impotence - and read her at the Toronto Star when I'm not sitting on my ass posting anti-Israeli rants), Warren Allmand former solicitor general in Canada, Judy Rebick, Maher Arar (tortured in Syria to which he was renditioned by the US on false evidence provided by the Canadian spooks services http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maher_Arar, Murray Dobbin frequent contributor to Counterpunch during the latest Canadian elections warning against Harper and critical of the other two main parties (Liberals and NDP) as well as writer on the criminal production and export of asbestos to poor third world countries who are used to the pollution and thus have no problem with asbestos: http://counterpunch.org/dobbin05172011.html, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sXy5rNyobVE, Yves Engler also at counterpunch http://www.google.com/search?q=yves+engler&domains=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org&sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org, http://www.google.com/search?q=yves+engler&domains=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org&sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org.

More names that I don’t know however so thank you very much for the information and wesite.

Freedom, I think is a very self-limiting concept with speech being only one of our ways to express it. Here's another Canadian (since they are in now in fashion), who summarizes it in a very 'long-form' method.

We begin life with the world presenting itself to us as it is.  Someone - our parents, teachers, analysts - hypnotizes us to "see" the world and construe it in the "right" way.  These others label the world, attach names and give voices to the beings and events in it, so that thereafter, we cannot read the world in any other language or hear it saying other things to us.  The task is to break the hypnotic spell, so that we become undeaf, unblind and multilingual, thereby letting the world speak to us in new voices and write all its possible meanings in the new book of our existence.  Be careful in your choice of hypnotists.  ~Sidney Jourard

Below, I'm connecting the 'hate speech' and 'fire' in a bizarre way to help understand it for myself...I'm only exercising my free speech and certainly not defending it, anyone is free to read and/or disagree. But don't quote me on it, because as usual, I haven't made my mind up, yet.

I don't think hate speech can be banned entirely. That would mean ignorance is to be banned and I'd just have to shut up and keep clicking & double-clicking. From a personal standpoint, hate speech can help go a long way in understanding - from where the hate originates, which most likely is from fear or of the mind foreseeing future intimidation. 

So to confuse myself (& everyone else) more here's an example - if I cry "Tiger Tiger" at a bright-burning Shere Khan (ancestor of Strauss-Khan-bin-Levi's), it's unlikely that he'll agree to play poker with me, because he may think I'm introducing myself to him. He, like I; has perhaps been taught by peers to be scared of Tigers!

Continuing with Canadians and their love for Punjabi poetry - Here's a 17/18th century poem by a Punjabi Sufi philosopher...seeking self-explanation to some (perhaps unexisting) metaphysics (the person my name holds within, knows not who I am), from a humanist angle. It is remixed to modern tempo, with English subtitles. He was controversial, as he criticized the religious orthodoxy in the world he knew & lived, in his time.

I hope I have managed to successfully confuse everyone who still reads my rants, as I use my freedom to sit on my 'hind'side for exactly that purpose.

Being a tiger I thought you might be posting a song by some Cat known as Yusuf Islam.  As you didn't I'll post one that I've discovered the last year or two.

Freedom being self limiting sounds a contradiction in terms but you're good at that and one man's (woman's?) freedom is another's prison or paradise.

Canadians are not in fashion - we import it from sweat shops!

Didn't recognise any Canadian scenes but that singer resembles what we in Toronto call taxi drivers - but not to their face as they carry Kirpans.

The quote on freedom and reality reminds me of the movie review of Inglourious Basterds by Gilad Atzmon who may overanalyse/interpret Tarantino.  The review is interesting in itself and I found interesting the comparison of dream and reality (Traum und Wirklichkeit: not my style of music but I like the contrast in the lyrics): 

"Rather than looking at the content of a dream, it may as well be possible to imagine the dream looking at us as its ‘content of reality’. As it happens, in the dream, it is usually us and our so called psychic reality that is being watched and even scrutinized.  The interpretation of dreams is, in most cases, based on the assumption that in the dream, some involuntary waves of thoughts are there to throw light on the kernel of our being. It is there to bring to our attention those things we suppress and deny. This idea brings to mind Slavoj Zizek’s  return to the 1960’s slogan that ‘reality is there for those who cannot face the dream’.

The film resembles the role of the dream. As much as we tend to believe ourselves to be the viewers, from time to time, it is actually us who are being watched. Tarantino’s latest is a classic example. It is there to elevate consciousness to the realm of thoughts we insist to avoid.  It raises questions that are regarded as taboo. It provides us with an opportunity to glance at ourselves from the perspective of the unconscious. Through the fantasy it draws our reality. As in the dream, Inglourious Basterds displaces and reshapes events without any commitment to any historical truth, it is not committed to well accepted facts either. It doesn’t follow any recognized narrative, yet, it provides meaning.  The success of the film may be due to its ability to communicate with some pre symbolic reality (The Lacanian Real ". http://www.counterpunch.org/atzmon09182009.html

As for hindsight and sitting on my ass, I don't know what else to sit upon.  I've tried my head without success (it's empty) - can't even stand on my head but I notice some are capable of turning the truth (whatever that might be) on its head.

Good luck with the struisvogel (Strauß) and the new pair of Bernard Henri Levys.

Nir,

In order to avoid confusion I am going to develop a little bit more my point of view about the Zionism, firstly I completely agree about the base of the Zionism which is to get a country for the Jews. Most of Zionists are for the colonies on the westbank and see the Palestinians as intruders in Israel/Palestine. When I used the term “Zionism”, I was talking about these people.

As you said these colonies or Israeli settlements is a Jewish civilian community built on land that was captured by Israel during the 1967 Six-Day War and is considered occupied territory by the international community. Such settlements currently exist in the West Bank. Israeli neighborhoods in East Jerusalem and communities in the Golan Heights, areas which have been annexed by Israel, are considered settlements by the international community, which does not recognize Israel's annexations of these territories. These colonies are ILLEGAL according to the International Court of Justice and the international community, this is why reason why I see those colonies as a danger for peace.

Even Amnesty International argues that Israel's settlement policy is discriminatory and a violation of Palestinian human rights.

As you are a one of the Glocals administrator; I take the opportunity to express my frustration, I don’t understand how a member as Star can still talk on forums and be a member of glocals by saying sentences that I qualify as racists and offended for the Palestinians, arabs and muslems people, she said:

“there is much suffering in the world and a great deal of it is created by extreme moslems” IN MY OPINION AN EXTREMIST IS AN EXTREMIST WHATEVER HIS RELIGION, HIS ORIGIN AND HIS COLOR; WE DON’T NEED TO FOCUS ON ONE RELIGION...

“the point is the Arabs are sore losers” IF I WAS AN ARAB I WOULD HAVE BEEN OFFENDED…

“what did the palestinians ever contribute to the world besides voting the Hamas in, sending rockets to Israel and playing the victim constantly ?” I GET CLEARLY THE IDEA THAT ALL PALESTINIANS ARE FOR SENDING ROCKETS TO ISRAEL…

You can find those sentences on the two forums below:

http://www.glocals.com/#/forums/politics-and-current-affairs/Amnesty-International--Palestinian-writer-imprisoned-without-charge--124345.htm

http://www.glocals.com/#/forums/politics-and-current-affairs/Amnesty-International--Palestinian-writer-imprisoned-without-charge--124345.htm

Btw if you a good solution to fight the starvation in the world, please feel free to post it…

Blaah blaah blaah

Another person who did not show up for the Arab and Jews youth

performance in Zurich

I just gave a CD of Arab and Israeli songs to my buddy , a Moslem

from Turkey who hates extremism too

and well, as most people who live in reality admit the extremism

that places bombs and sends rockets is not Tibetian Buddhism

however it is easy to choose and pick words and ignore the message

My message is zero tolerance to Hamas that declares its intention

to destroy my tiny beautiful country

I support projects of Arab and Jewish children in Israel

I support the right of Moslems to practice their religion

to cover and to build whatever towers they wish

I do not support violent protests by people who have been given

land and choose a violent path

I do not support people who chose to keep their people ignorant

Syria murders its own citizens during a funeral for god's sake

Libyan refugees drown at sea

Egypt has clashes between Moslems and Christians

yet when it comes to the Jewish land there is only ONE side 

on the minds and hearts 

as if the messiah will come when the palestinian state will be declared

I have no doubt the palestinian state will be declared 

i have no doubt that there is a dire need for the palestinian children

to get the same sort of education  most Israeli children get 

which is secular and liberal and then we can see palestinians 

publishing books, writing poetry, exhibiting art , making music 

much much more 

because i do believe that peace is not the problem but ignorance 

and religious fanatics who insist on keeping their people focused

on the so called zionist enemy when the real enemy is poverty

not because there is not enough money but corrupt governments

and a lack of social policy, and ignorance, 

the palestinians are living in the dark ages, their leaders acting 

as the leaders of europe during the dark ages urging them to fight 

the nonbelivers

NO , it is not a general extremism but a very specific one that is 

coming from Iran and other regimes that use religion to keep their 

people ignorant and hateful 

to blame Israel for the behavior of the masses is absurd

Israel is not responsible for syria shooting its citizens or libya 

or any other country in the area 

If i am a racist i definitely do not act like one 

I have never had problem speaking freely with Moslem Arabs 

have gone to university with Moslem Arabs, socialized with them

also on glocals by the way, and feel much easier with people of the 

east than europeans sometimes however it does not mean 

i think my tiny country has to put up with violence and slander

and lies 

freedom of speech is not freedom of hate 

and the demonizing of Israel is a fact that is not only true in the media 

but here on this forum generated by two members

who insist on focusing on Israel as if that is the only problem 

of the middle east and the world and as if Israel is responsible 

for extremism and hate 

Hate does not come as a result of living in overpopulated camps

jews did not come out of concentration camps seeking to kill European Nazis

they went back HOME , they did not steal land, they reclaimed 

you can not colonize a land that you live in and is tiny 

furthermore whatever you write it is clear your opinions are

very influenced by the media

International law also means Israel deserves to react to rockets

and since libya served on the human rights UN committee

i would not take the matter of international morality too seriously

however the silence to syrians murdered, libyans murdered

etc speaks very clearly of racism

If you want peace and love you encourage children learning

together and getting along together

but not one of the people arguing politically supposibly showed 

up for the event i posted or showed the slightest interest 

in the project of Jewish and Arab children doing theater together 

in Israel 

ask yourself because actions speak louder than words

I applaud the tolerance that Nir and Oded have for all those posts 

who have only one aim to provocate and stir anti Israel sentiments

As for the attack against me 

i stand by my deeds and my  intercultural friendships rather than words that have 

been distorted 

David

you wrote me in a private message that you do not know enough about 

the middle east and all of the sudden you are an expert ???

My grandmother was born in the old city of Jerusalem , is it east jerusalem now? 

and what makes you an expert , quoting the noble prize for peace winner who 

conducts several wars against moslem nations ??is that a credible voice

speaking against occupation ??

when Jerusalem was divided there was no religious freedom 

Read shlomo Avineri on www.haaretz.com 

I repeat now in large letters so you dont miss it 

WHAT ABOUT SYRIANS SLAUGHTERED

WHAT ABOUT LIBYANS DROWNING

WHAT ABOUT THE PALESTINIAN LEADERSHIP AGAIN ROBBING

THEIR PEOPLE AND DECLARING THEIR INTENTION OF DESTROYING ISRAEL ??

and another thing

Professor Shlomo Avineri of the Hebrew University where i and many Moslem Arabs attended university

(can a jew attend a university in Gaza ?)

said in his article that the Arabs did in fact reject the partition chose war

again and again and now once more do not want to engage in any

negotiation or even recognize the right of israel to exist which has been

recognized by international law

so much for international law

what about compensating the jews from Arab lands from being expelled

from Arab lands and having their property taken over by the Arab governments ?

What about the freedom of speech not to talk about ethnic cleansing?

what ethnic cleansing can there be with ONE BILLIARD moslems

and FOURTEEN MILLION JEWS ????

what ethnic cleansing can there be with over 20' Moslem countries who

dont even let in Jews and ONE jewish land

YOu can give your land away to anyone who declares they want to murder you

but actually David why do you even care?

you certainly dont seem concerned with somalia, syria, egypt, libiya, afganistan, pakistan, iraq

why focus on the jewish nation ?

dont you think Israelis who also allow you to constantly bombard the net with endless posts deserve a break ?

I am taking a break from this 

as i have as i said better things to do 

why dont you contribute David to projects that work on Jewish and Arab 

children working together 

why do you insist on aruging politics which has 

ABSOLUTLY NO AIM 

i really am tired  of the blah blah