Kindergarden places being allocated to those that know the staff and not according to the list maintained by the council.

"to health insurance that is accepted in Vaud not being accepted by the canton of Geneva". Not understood

Whilst being rated 7th out of 177 nations, things can hardly be as bad as you claim.

Working for the government since over 20 years, I only had one person, a foreigner, trying to bribe me. Didn't work out too well for him to say the least...

Do you have any proof (not just claims) that traffic police is targeting foreigners?

Oh, the police officers also searching the black men on the street. The don't take them to the office or any area not public.

The theme of this thread is corruption. I don't see how your claims have anything to do with corruption.

I rented a business apartment in Zürich from ATC Holding AG about 4 months ago for CHF 3200 per month. At the viewing time they promised me things like proper cleaning, internet, cable TV and all the facilities you can think of for such a price. Once I moved in the 2nd week, I was told by the cleaning lady that she would not clean the kitchen area “as it looks clean already” – I naturally gave it a wipe after cooking the previous night, but it was just a wipe down rather than a proper clean. She did not iron the bed sheets or even put them on the bed, they were left on the side for me to come back from work to make my bed, and so on. Furthermore the internet signal dispite being week, would work for  maximum of about an hour a day and had to be reset (every day). The reset could only happen the following day when the ATC Holding team got my email every morning informing them that the inter is not working again. When I was not in the apartment, admin people would entre and start taking inventory, or taking things away from the apartment such as the net curtains, chairs etc. You could imagine my surprise each evening when I got back after work….. I think you get the picture of the services or should I say lack of services provided….

After 4 months of having issues, I finally told ATC Holding AG that I no longer require the apartment and in accordance to the contract was giving them notice of a month. They accepted that but told me that I needed to move out on the 29th and could not stay the last day of the month cause they need to clean the place up….. No refund of the days rent naturally. For me that meant a day in a hotel, but at this stage I was well beyond the frustration levels to argue with them, so accepted that too

The 29th of the month came and by then I had moved all of my stuff out and dropped the keys in the letter box for them to collect (the letter box method was how I got the keys when I moved in also). I emailed ATC Holding to ask if all was ok with the apartment and contents. They confirmed that all was ok apart from the one missing key. I informed them that the key was in the post box and they should collect it from there. To my surprise they told me that there was no key in the letter box and I would have to pay CHF 600 as they would now need to change the key and the locks. Hmmm not much I can say, so I returned to the letter box to check for the keys. Sure enough no key!! I agreed to pay the CHF 600 but told them that they will have to give me receipts for the work carried out (from the company that will do the work – not from their company). 2 days later I get an email saying that they found the key in the letter box. How can this be….. I checked it myself and it was not there 3 day ago!!!!

Anyway, they promised to give me my deposit of CHF 3040 (rent minus the final cleaning charges) in the next 5 days. Happy to see the back of the apartment and dealings with ATC Holding AG, I thanked them and waited for the money to arrive in my account. 10 days later…. Still nothing. On enquiring again, I was told that its ATC policy to refund the deposit after a month, so I am still waiting …. Let’s see what happens next

I have to admit that I had very positive thoughts about this country and the people here, but after my above experience…… I better think again.

Are all these companies corrupt and trying to make money by charging for lost keys (which never got lost) or keeping money until the last moment, most likely getting interest from each tenant?

Welcome to the real world.

Personally I've experienced almost the full package from Switzerland expect being expelled from it! Lucky me

Collected to the experience of other friends + the sayings of local colleagues about how things runs behind the scene, it's quite dramatic what goes on... BUT! I can't say other countries are getting better. You can always end up living interesting times. It's just not any better, so I'll agree Switzerland should have lost its superb for the people knowing it but imagining it with only fresh air, green valleys and lovely cows is a fantasy for chinese tourists. Cows are there but there is plenty of room without them too, otherwise how could we play curling in the first place? :-)

I havn't heard anything about CH gaining a rep as a corrupt country. The fact you personally ran into a few bad examples doesn't mean the overall rep of the country is going down, or that corruption is wide spread over here. 

Like every country it reeks corruption.

My own experience is of the appartment above me( for which I applied twice) seeming to have become a Portuguese fiefdom handed down from one Portuguese family to another  over several lettings.The last time I applied,the flat had been empty for a couple of months.My application was refused without any reason given.

A friend of mine was shocked at how tricky business deals could be smoothed over by money offers ,likewise getting official permission for building - and even in one case the swifter processing of a work permit( all of this in Valais which,apparently,is known for being corrupt) He had previously done business in Asia and found the Valais situation quite a shock.

How about being a single person and not getting an apartment with a decent rent and knowing the management will choose a couple or a family, who has (at least) 2 people in the place earning income?

Why are savings always being offered to people who don't need them?  

And when you "suck it up" (as a single woman, who typically earns less than a man) and accept that you must pay a fortune, you find yourself unhappy that the management cannot even enforce house rules.

Carrie: that's not corruption tho. It's a business practice you may not agree with, but it's in the open and legal. 

Fair enough, Nir.

Afterall, the problem very well could be ME. I am not excluding it.

To anyone reading, I wish you a nice day and hope you get your money's worth, however you choose to spend it.

I didn't say or think the prob was you, I just said the problem you raised is not one of corruption. 

Nir, 

I apologize if my comment came out wrong, and I am not implying that you said or thought anything about me.

I am trying to get a handle on what interest people have in making life miserable for others?

As a foriegner , staying here from an year and half and interacting with couple of govt , canton depts for different sort of works,  travelling a lot to most of the famous cities , and dealing with a handful number of service apartments, gerrants, and immobiliers ,  and by comparing with a couple of other countries I know , some in middle east and few in europe,  I can say this.

1. I have'nt felt Switzerland as a corrupt nation ( alteast from my and my friend's interactions with Police, Canton , Govt Officials , Railway Staff, and in general all others ) ,  it is a lot better compared to many others.

2. The Housing system, letting apartments, finding a home on rent -- this is all together different , ss a newcome I found it as pain in the neck and am finding it even now -- mostly due to Bureaucratic hurdles and many "unsaid" rules and customs.

But from a Corruption perspective, I dont think Switzerland is anyway near top of lists ...

To Mr. Tax-Exile,.,

i would like to say to you just this,>>GO and live in France and see what it is like,..

wish u a pleasant stay

As a french guy I'll say it's a lovely place and I never had the tenth of the issues I went through here, but well, should I blame it on the canton? :)

They are searching blac man especially in Paqui, as there are drug-dealers.... The question is - why don't they take them away? Each time I have to pass by chearch or SCHOOL there, I see thouse people looking for clients.... I hate to pass by with my kids.... Hopefully for me I'm not leaving tgere, but we go to ludoteque and have to pass by "that" streets.... It's may be not corruption, BUT  Police  knows perfectly abt these people and places and just let's them go..,.

Geneva isuch better then many other countries, that's true. However, life is much easier here if you know somebody in the "top management". It's not necesary a corruption, bus some hoe "exchange of services" is well presented here. 

I confirm that supplying a clime helps here! Especially is picture of the car was taken by a radar (personal expearience). 

olala! I was living in France over four years, and in Switzerlad over 7... don't even compare! In France many things are comepletely disorganized.... In Geneva you can get clear expenation on anything, in France -never! Ask 3 person about any rule/law and you will get three different answers......

Sorry for all mistyping , I was writing using the phone.... :)

The issue of street drug deals (white or black or purple) was covered many times accross all local media. The issue is not the police, and it's not corruption. It's the legal system. The police arrest the small drug dealers, but the current laws mean the small dealers are out again very soon. 

So eventually the police stop arresting them...

hello to all,..lets say everytime the swiss voted for stricter rules and regulations in benefit of the security of the population in the city,..what do i always hear,//--- the swiss are so boring that they voted for this,.they are racists,..they are closed minded people,..above all,. non observation of ...HUMAN RIGHTS ,..so there you go,...some go as far as ..they have brain washed me to vote like the swiss.//how interesting,..,..not forgetting some french nationals are very good at finger pointing..

The problem is that the cops, is not really the cops, but there is no "investigation" as to where the drugs come from, and instead of investigating to find out who the "big players" or higher ups are which would probably easy when thinking about it.. just follow them.

But yea I agree with you it's not nice to see all those dealers in the streets of Geneva, and anywhere for that matter.

Especially the hard drug dealers, I personally don't care about marijuana but I don't like when some random dudes ask me if I want some..

Cannabis should be legalized and sold in shops so there would be no more dealers doing that, same for all the countrys in the world, in swiss it's not that bad, even it's france it's starting to look more and more like the USA with gangs fighting for territory and all that.. like what the hell, why do the politicians doesn't understand that repression isn't the solution here, it's quite obvious.

hello strong force,

you are right in certain ways,..not all,..cannabis should not be legalized,..in my point of view,..its a mythe to think that if there s a shop then no more dealers on the street,..any way can i ask u on question>?are you a cop ,strong force??

I get your point, but you're not accurate on 2 points:

1. You say the police doesn't go after the big dealers. 
I don't know what you base that claim on, but do know that occasionally the local media celebrates the catch of big distribution chains of drugs, incl the big drug dealers who are at the top.

2. You say it's obvious that cannabis should be made legal. 
I personally agree it should be legalised, but the point itself is highly debated, with a lot of politicians and experts dis-agreeing over what's the best approach. 

Nir

if cannabis is made legal and is sold in regular stores, where the quality is assured and it's all simple to buy like tobbaco and alcohol, why would there be a need for a black market for it?

There might be some marginal black-market deals, like you can buy smuggled cigarettes and alcohol today, but far less than today. 

After reading most of this, I find many comments to be

1) In-accurate, with alot of false claims & un-supported. i.e. Kindergarten dont have councils here in Geneva. i.e. Geneva isuch better then many other countries, I did not know Geneva is a country. But It woudl be great to have a separation and have a new country of Romande :) And still keep the name Lac Genève, heheheheehe

2) Many example of diverting  from the subject of Corruption. Most comments are refering to Ethics, unfair but legal business practice, morals, accepted laws and norms.

3) Racism : blac man, - why don't they take them away? thouse people, these people?

4)  Cannabis is a personal choice, if the citizens vote to allow it, dont judge a country if its illegal in your home country.

5) health insurance that is accepted in Vaud not being accepted by the canton of Geneva. I am sorry, is your insurance from a authorized Swiss company? If so, then this is certainly not accurate.

Nir has been very sensible in this conversation. But seems the start of this discusssion was just to wind up people, setup people up in a loss and loss arguements.

Finally, I thought peoples 'real' names were to but used for glocal profiles, so Tax_Exile should be banned or change the name? Oh, sorry I must be corrupt ? And such a profile name is 'provacative'?

I used to live in Vaud and the family insurance was arranged by Nestle.  when I moved to Geneva, the canton of Geneva wouln't accept the policy that Nestle had arranged.  They said, just cos it's accepted in Vaud doesn't mean it's accepted here. It's a clear case of forcing individuals to purchase an unnecessary insurance that benefits local insurance companies.   

Oh dear, it's getting personal!  I can't see how my name is provocative.  

5) it certainly is true.  see my response to another poster.

1)  Tecnically Geneva is the Republic of Geneva.  In the double tax treaty between France & Switzerland, it is actually between France, Switzerland and the Republic of Geneva.  

I did!  Shops open after 6.30 pm, 30% cheaper, higher speed limits on the motorway, much better food.......accommodation is lower priced too

Oh, believe me, I showed them stamps in my passport which proved I was not even in Switzerland when the alleged offense took place.  They didn't care.  

I complained to the canton of Berne about their police asking for a bribe when stopped for speeding (even though i was below the limit) and didn't even get a reply.

Swiss corruption is institutionalised.

Legalised tax evasion, albeit on a small scale.

Every five years I receive a letter from the Service d'Automobiles informing me that if I would like to keep the D categories transferred from my British driving licence, I must undergo a medical examination (nothing too complicated - reading the eye test chart + one general health question) which takes about 10 minues. Cost CHF 100. A list of "chosen" doctors is enclosed with the letter from which I have the freedom of choice to book a consultation.

The part I find unjust is that the letter states that the consultation must be paid in cash, that it is not reimbursable through my health insurance and that I will not receive a bill.

At my last consultation, the Dr took the payment and slipped it directly into his trouser pocket.

Small though it may be, at the end of the day it's undeclared revenue instigated and condoned by the State of Geneva.

The health insurance system in itself is a scam and the result of santé suisse lobbying in the government. I know of no other country where the government forces you to take out a shady and expensive private health insurance, where reimbursement is minimal and all the money is pocketed. People that are too sick aren't even covered anymore. I find that revolting. 

I totally disagree. 

While the basic health insurance here is crazy expensive, it's very clear what the coverage includes and what it doesn't, reimbursements (if they're covered) are made quickly, and the insurance conpany has to accept everyone regardless of the person's health situation. 

And the system of mandatory health insurance is wide spread in the world, including our neighbor Germany. 

Last, when you say "the money is pocketed", I assume you mean by the insurance companies. That's also not true, cos many of the health insurance companies are actually not making enough money to cover their costs (which are mainly reimbursements, although with some high management fees)

Dear Nir,

Take no offense here but let me tell you that you are blind to what the current situation is and sadely yes Kim is far more right on the spot.

And yes I have personal experiences on the matter and let me assure you this is bad, way bad how how it goes. But! I never heard about someone dying in front of others waiting for a doctor while being at an hospital's entrance here, so let's say it's not as broken as USA goes.

Hi Romain, 

No offense taken, I don't own the insurance company...(-;

But if I'm blind then pls help me see: what do the Swiss health insurance companies do that's so wrong?

I have personal experience with them too, and my experience has been that while they're exprience, they do what they say. 

Not corruption, but something like extortion, is Billag!

I'm fully with you about Billag being a bit like extortion, or a bit like a tax for just living in CH. Even if it's 100% proven that you never watch TV or listen to the radio or surf the web, you still got to pay...

Ok, so having skimmed through, it seems people need to clarify what corruption actually means.

1) Corruption is the abuse of entrusted power for private gain. It hurts everyone who depends on the integrity of people in a position of authority.

2) In philosophical, theological, or moral discussions, corruption is the abuse of bestowed power or position to acquire a personal benefit. Corruption may include many activities including bribery and embezzlement. Government, or 'political', corruption occurs when an office-holder or other governmental employee acts in an official capacity for personal gains.

one is I suppose the official tranpranecy definition and the other Wiki.

The word corrupt when used as an adjective literally means "utterly broken" - I would say that applies pretty heavily to a fair amount of things mentioned above (for examples, the topic of regies/apartments)

Just because it doesnt sit pretty, doesnt make it any less true. Also for a few that took offence to this thread, if you insist on responding to the OP, then maybe come back with something other than:

- if you don't like it, leave!

- You are wrong and I take offence!

We removed mj's reply as it included personal details. Let's keep this discussion focused on the overall point of corruption, not on personal name+shame specific cases

I have not had it confirmed from any Police personnel or other officials, but this is my personal view on arresting, or not, small dealers.
The Police knows of course that the guys in Paquis do not just stand there idly. The problem is, if you remove one from the street, another guy will take his place. There is no doubt about it - can you imagine an African youth living on a couple of dollars a day not saying "yes" to the possibility of earning some Swiss francs? Also, be aware that the costs of most small criminal procedures goes into hundreds of francs.
So, as long as such young fellow does not fall further into crime (violence) the Police lets him be, with the exception of spectacular mass actions the public enforces on the Canton from time to time. The dealers know it and try not to cross the line. Everybody is (more or less) happy.
As long as there is demand, the guys are here to stay.

Makes sense. Unless a strategic decision is taken to fight the street level dealers, in which case the authorities have to make it so painful for a dealer to stay on the street (repeat arrests, repeat controls, repeat harassing), that he'll want out. But that has to come with i) crazy investment by the police, ii) a plan for what occupation to give the ex-dealers, to avoid them going into other crime lines. 

Even if it's 100% proven that you are physically unable to do so, you have to pay. They told me on the phone. My parents left Communist Eastern Europe to escape this $hoot...lol.

Just accept paying for Billach, same as you accept paying the low tax rates here and having a bigger pay. You don't propose to pay same rate as in your country which must be much more, I suppose??? Each country has his own rules, and to my opinion we're quite ok here in Switzerland. No way to compare with any Communist country in the past, has nothing to do with.

I think it's really easy to get rid of the dealers actually.  Just hit them where it hurts, in the pockets.  Don't ever arrest them, but fine them everytime you see them in the street for loitering.  Then fine them again if you find something illegal on them.  Once they are unable to cover the number of fines the police keep hitting them with, they'll move on to greener pastures.

If a new dealer replaces the old one, keep doing the same thing, fine fine fine, eventually word will spread that Geneva is a fine city (see what I did there?) and dealers will stop coming. :)

Geneva is already a "fine city" when it comes to parking tickets...I've never seen such efficiency as the parking ticket law enforcement

We accept it (we have no choice), but we're saying that the system should just call the Billag payment what it really is: a tax for living in CH, regardless of whether or not you watch TV / listen to the radio.  

I wish they would fine all the idiots that drive while texting/phoning, and who speed through green walk signs while you cross with a baby carriage. They would make a fortune.

The authorities are great at enforcing parking stuff, but they suck at enforcing the laws when it comes to crazy drivers. I've seen drivers in Geneva allowing themselves to drive crazy, cos they know the chance of getting caught is so small. Crossing in red, speeding like crazy next to pedestrian crosses, doing crazy stuff on the road. Kills to me to see that, cos I know they can kill a kid in a second. 

BillaCH? Is that an inadvertant error? You should propose a name change.

I don't pay anything near to the extortionate Swiss rates in my country. As I have said, I have no problem with USER PAYS. But it's ridiculous that someone who can't (blind or deaf) or doesn't (most expats buy cable) use an entertainment service should pay for it. And don't tell me it's for news. Do you understand Swiss German? Because I sure as hell don't.

We almost got hit coming back home at lunch time from the park. It was a green walk sign, with a flashing orange warning to drivers. A driver floored it to turn right, then honked at us, I was trying to get out of the way she was swerving, swearing and flipping me the bird. I wish I had had a hammer instead of a small baby in a pram.

Bearded: and you look so gentle in your glocals picture...(-;

It's all fun and games until someone points a car at the baby! Or sends a duplicate BillaCH facture. Or adds two stories to the building...

The problem is, Billag may not be called "a tax", since there is in Switzerland a numerus clausus on taxes provided for in the Constitution.
I know people who do not pay and were never sanctioned. Some of them say it is their "civic negative duty" not to pay a (almost) population-wide levy they consider illegal. And since it saves them money in the same time, hey - not their fault :)

Billag told me that it is a "federal tax".

I heard another version: it's all fun and games until someone loses an eye. And then it's still fun and games, but you can't see them

I do not think this would work.

-Sir, you have been loitering.

-Oh yeah?

-Yes, It is CHF 100 fine for you.

Option 1

- Officer, I do not have any cash on me. I am an asylum seeker / illegal immigrant with no recorded domicile so you can be sure I will pay the orange payment slip you will hand me now.

- Perfect. Thank you for your precious cooperation.

Option 2
- I do not have any cash on me. I am an asylum seeker / illegal immigrant with no recorded domicile so you can be sure I will never pay the orange payment slip you will hand me now.

- Then we need to arrest you, sir. Please get into the car.

... back to square one.

Well played and well demonstrated...you should be a lawyer my friend...(-;

Thank you Nir.
I have indeed been thinking on leaving my current profession and doing something meaningful :P