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NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Thought people might find this one interesting...
Open Borders and Wealth Lure Thieves to Geneva
By RAPHAEL MINDER
Published: February 2, 2012

 


GENEVA — Gone are the days when diplomats and bankers could stroll around Geneva without worrying about having their briefcases stolen. Reported cases of property theft — including everything from wallets to cars — rose 23 percent in 2011, to about 61,000.


 


But in fact, the belongings of the Geneva region’s 450,000 inhabitants may not be any safer locked up at home. The number of break-ins climbed 20 percent last year to about 8,200 — an average of over 22 a day — according to figures provided by the Swiss city’s police chief, Monica Bonfanti.


The crime surge has been such that last summer the city’s tourism office removed from its advertising any mention of Geneva as a safe destination. Depicting Geneva as the secure and tranquil lakeside city that it once was would have been “misleading, if not actually a lie,” said Bernard Cazaban, spokesman for the tourism office.


Under pressure to halt the crime wave, the city authorities recently announced changes at the police department, notably requiring officers to spend more time patrolling the streets rather than handling paperwork back in the office. But the changes have run into opposition from the police officers’ powerful union, which last month started a partial strike, refusing to issue fines for traffic offenses, amid concerns that the overhaul would worsen their employment conditions rather than improve efficiency.


Ms. Bonfanti, the police chief, showed understanding for the discontent among her troops. “I don’t believe that we ever had to work under such pressure,” she said. In addition to crime, she argued, the police have also been overstretched by a doubling in the number of street protests last year, mostly held near the grounds of the United Nations in connection with the Arab Spring upheaval.


Besides pushing for the proposed overhaul, she suggested her 1,300-strong police force should also add 200 officers. But she said fighting crime also required “behavioral changes” in a city where people never had to show much vigilance. “Many people here still go out without locking their front door or leave their bag at the restaurant table when they go to the restroom,” she said.


As a private banking hub and one of Europe’s wealthiest cities, Geneva is arguably an obvious target for criminals. But other factors also explain why Geneva has becomeSwitzerland’s most dangerous city, ahead of the larger Zurich.


High on that list is Geneva’s geography. Apart from sitting on the shores of the eponymous lake, Geneva is surrounded by a 105-kilometer, or about 65-mile, border with France. With the removal of border controls under the Schengen agreement, which Switzerland joined in December 2008, international crime gangs have taken full advantage of the easier access. Some gangs, which previously operated mainly in French cities like Lyon and Marseille, have instead switched to Geneva, often spending only the time there needed to commit their crime before escaping back to France and its separate jurisdiction.


Police and judicial cooperation between Switzerland and its neighbors has been tightened — but within limits. For instance, under a bilateral agreement with France, the police gained the power to pursue criminals into each other’s territory. But any cross-border car chase must be abandoned as soon as the pursued vehicle falls out of direct sight of the police car, Ms. Bonfanti said, restricting such cross-border interventions to five last year.


Meanwhile, the police in Geneva are concerned that changes made last year to the procedures under the Swiss penal code have paradoxically placed additional hurdles in their path, notably when dealing with first-time offenders. “When we arrest criminals who come from France, some actually tell us upfront that they expect greater clemency in Switzerland than in France,” Ms. Bonfanti said.


Yves Bertossa, a public prosecutor, noted that the revised code made it significantly tougher to justify holding suspects in preventive detention. The legal change, he added, was “designed with small and quiet Swiss towns in mind, not a city like Geneva.”


Geneva’s crime problem has also raised concern in Bern, the Swiss capital. The Geneva residence of the Swiss ambassador to the United Nations was among about 20 diplomatic buildings that were broken into last summer. Since September, the Geneva and federal government authorities have been negotiating over who should pay for additional security. While Geneva wants the Swiss government to raise its annual contribution of 16.5 million Swiss francs, or about $18 million, to the cost of guaranteeing security for the 40,000 residents linked to the United Nations and other international organizations, Bern has questioned whether Geneva efficiently spent past subsidies.


 


Whatever the outcome of the negotiation, Olivier Coutau, who handles issues relating to international organizations on behalf of the Geneva government, argued that the security problem “should not be dramatized.”


Despite some recent armed robberies of bank branches, post offices and gas stations, only a fraction of crimes had involved physical violence. Meanwhile, the most recent police survey among Geneva-based foreigners, published in April of 2010, showed 92 percent of respondents would recommend moving to Geneva to family and friends. “There’s no point denying the problem, but we haven’t reached a level where expats feel that it’s become horrible to live here because of crime,” Mr. Coutau said.


Echoing such a view, Christian Dunant, a Swiss ambassador who is the director of the Geneva Welcome Center, which helps foreign civil servants and others settle in the city, argued the crime problem was probably less worrying for such expatriates than the recent rise of the Swiss franc against the euro and the dollar, the currencies in which most are paid. Still, he said that he personally deplored “having to avoid at night some neighborhoods that used to be perfectly pleasant.”


Some prominent Geneva residents have voiced their concerns more forcefully, however. George Koukis, founder of Temenos, a Geneva-based provider of banking software with about €379 million, or $500 million, in annual revenues, recently warned that he was considering moving to another city after having two suitcases snatched from him as he stepped out of a taxi. Mr. Koukis told Bilan, a Swiss publication, that several colleagues had also recently been robbed or assaulted. “Are businessmen meant to hire a bodyguard when they move around Geneva?” he said.


Guy Mettan, a former president of Geneva’s cantonal Parliament, said it would probably take two to three years to see any significant improvement because “our politicians were unfortunately slow to recognize the extent of the crime problem.” Still, he predicted that the changes in law enforcement would eventually improve the situation.


“In terms of crime, Geneva is now unfortunately on par, if not actually below, some otherwise comparable cities,” he said, “but this doesn’t mean that the situation is completely out of control and that this place is on its way to becoming like Baghdad.”


 

The text you are quoting:
Thought people might find this one interesting...
Open Borders and Wealth Lure Thieves to Geneva
By RAPHAEL MINDER
Published: February 2, 2012

 


GENEVA — Gone are the days when diplomats and bankers could stroll around Geneva without worrying about having their briefcases stolen. Reported cases of property theft — including everything from wallets to cars — rose 23 percent in 2011, to about 61,000.


 


But in fact, the belongings of the Geneva region’s 450,000 inhabitants may not be any safer locked up at home. The number of break-ins climbed 20 percent last year to about 8,200 — an average of over 22 a day — according to figures provided by the Swiss city’s police chief, Monica Bonfanti.


The crime surge has been such that last summer the city’s tourism office removed from its advertising any mention of Geneva as a safe destination. Depicting Geneva as the secure and tranquil lakeside city that it once was would have been “misleading, if not actually a lie,” said Bernard Cazaban, spokesman for the tourism office.


Under pressure to halt the crime wave, the city authorities recently announced changes at the police department, notably requiring officers to spend more time patrolling the streets rather than handling paperwork back in the office. But the changes have run into opposition from the police officers’ powerful union, which last month started a partial strike, refusing to issue fines for traffic offenses, amid concerns that the overhaul would worsen their employment conditions rather than improve efficiency.


Ms. Bonfanti, the police chief, showed understanding for the discontent among her troops. “I don’t believe that we ever had to work under such pressure,” she said. In addition to crime, she argued, the police have also been overstretched by a doubling in the number of street protests last year, mostly held near the grounds of the United Nations in connection with the Arab Spring upheaval.


Besides pushing for the proposed overhaul, she suggested her 1,300-strong police force should also add 200 officers. But she said fighting crime also required “behavioral changes” in a city where people never had to show much vigilance. “Many people here still go out without locking their front door or leave their bag at the restaurant table when they go to the restroom,” she said.


As a private banking hub and one of Europe’s wealthiest cities, Geneva is arguably an obvious target for criminals. But other factors also explain why Geneva has becomeSwitzerland’s most dangerous city, ahead of the larger Zurich.


High on that list is Geneva’s geography. Apart from sitting on the shores of the eponymous lake, Geneva is surrounded by a 105-kilometer, or about 65-mile, border with France. With the removal of border controls under the Schengen agreement, which Switzerland joined in December 2008, international crime gangs have taken full advantage of the easier access. Some gangs, which previously operated mainly in French cities like Lyon and Marseille, have instead switched to Geneva, often spending only the time there needed to commit their crime before escaping back to France and its separate jurisdiction.


Police and judicial cooperation between Switzerland and its neighbors has been tightened — but within limits. For instance, under a bilateral agreement with France, the police gained the power to pursue criminals into each other’s territory. But any cross-border car chase must be abandoned as soon as the pursued vehicle falls out of direct sight of the police car, Ms. Bonfanti said, restricting such cross-border interventions to five last year.


Meanwhile, the police in Geneva are concerned that changes made last year to the procedures under the Swiss penal code have paradoxically placed additional hurdles in their path, notably when dealing with first-time offenders. “When we arrest criminals who come from France, some actually tell us upfront that they expect greater clemency in Switzerland than in France,” Ms. Bonfanti said.


Yves Bertossa, a public prosecutor, noted that the revised code made it significantly tougher to justify holding suspects in preventive detention. The legal change, he added, was “designed with small and quiet Swiss towns in mind, not a city like Geneva.”


Geneva’s crime problem has also raised concern in Bern, the Swiss capital. The Geneva residence of the Swiss ambassador to the United Nations was among about 20 diplomatic buildings that were broken into last summer. Since September, the Geneva and federal government authorities have been negotiating over who should pay for additional security. While Geneva wants the Swiss government to raise its annual contribution of 16.5 million Swiss francs, or about $18 million, to the cost of guaranteeing security for the 40,000 residents linked to the United Nations and other international organizations, Bern has questioned whether Geneva efficiently spent past subsidies.


 


Whatever the outcome of the negotiation, Olivier Coutau, who handles issues relating to international organizations on behalf of the Geneva government, argued that the security problem “should not be dramatized.”


Despite some recent armed robberies of bank branches, post offices and gas stations, only a fraction of crimes had involved physical violence. Meanwhile, the most recent police survey among Geneva-based foreigners, published in April of 2010, showed 92 percent of respondents would recommend moving to Geneva to family and friends. “There’s no point denying the problem, but we haven’t reached a level where expats feel that it’s become horrible to live here because of crime,” Mr. Coutau said.


Echoing such a view, Christian Dunant, a Swiss ambassador who is the director of the Geneva Welcome Center, which helps foreign civil servants and others settle in the city, argued the crime problem was probably less worrying for such expatriates than the recent rise of the Swiss franc against the euro and the dollar, the currencies in which most are paid. Still, he said that he personally deplored “having to avoid at night some neighborhoods that used to be perfectly pleasant.”


Some prominent Geneva residents have voiced their concerns more forcefully, however. George Koukis, founder of Temenos, a Geneva-based provider of banking software with about €379 million, or $500 million, in annual revenues, recently warned that he was considering moving to another city after having two suitcases snatched from him as he stepped out of a taxi. Mr. Koukis told Bilan, a Swiss publication, that several colleagues had also recently been robbed or assaulted. “Are businessmen meant to hire a bodyguard when they move around Geneva?” he said.


Guy Mettan, a former president of Geneva’s cantonal Parliament, said it would probably take two to three years to see any significant improvement because “our politicians were unfortunately slow to recognize the extent of the crime problem.” Still, he predicted that the changes in law enforcement would eventually improve the situation.


“In terms of crime, Geneva is now unfortunately on par, if not actually below, some otherwise comparable cities,” he said, “but this doesn’t mean that the situation is completely out of control and that this place is on its way to becoming like Baghdad.”


 


Shelby HFeb 6, 2012 @ 16:31
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 1

As a 55 year old who moved to Geneva last September this rings only too true.


I have been subject to 3 attempted muggings, one succesfull.


I was brought up in the East End of London, and I have travelled extensively, this has never happened to me before moving to Geneva

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As a 55 year old who moved to Geneva last September this rings only too true.


I have been subject to 3 attempted muggings, one succesfull.


I was brought up in the East End of London, and I have travelled extensively, this has never happened to me before moving to Geneva


Jim Humphrey, Feb 7, 2012 @ 15:22
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 2

Yes, strange isnt it? I know of one person who has been carjacked, 4 people who have been mugged, one who was even kidnapped and held for 16 hours, two who have suffered home invasions where the robbers tried to gas them to sleep while they robbed them and a few who were burgaled when not home. I even intercepted a theft on a train when I was 8 months pregnant. I have lived in may big cities and this by leaps and bounds is the place where I know the most people who have had a crime committed against them. Strange isnt it? My friend lives across the street from a police station and they have never responded to her calls for help when violence breaks out in front of her apartments. Its really scary. Of course if the unions think officers should be doing paperwork and not helping to protect citizens, then we have a problem. Eek! I know my husbands company is starting to work with local police and are complaining to Bern as most of the poeple I just mentioned work for this company. They have just moved a whole bunch of people over from London and after a few employees were beaten badly and robbed and the other kidnapped on his way home from the office...well why would the other employees move, or the ones who are here stay. Scary stuff!!

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Yes, strange isnt it? I know of one person who has been carjacked, 4 people who have been mugged, one who was even kidnapped and held for 16 hours, two who have suffered home invasions where the robbers tried to gas them to sleep while they robbed them and a few who were burgaled when not home. I even intercepted a theft on a train when I was 8 months pregnant. I have lived in may big cities and this by leaps and bounds is the place where I know the most people who have had a crime committed against them. Strange isnt it? My friend lives across the street from a police station and they have never responded to her calls for help when violence breaks out in front of her apartments. Its really scary. Of course if the unions think officers should be doing paperwork and not helping to protect citizens, then we have a problem. Eek! I know my husbands company is starting to work with local police and are complaining to Bern as most of the poeple I just mentioned work for this company. They have just moved a whole bunch of people over from London and after a few employees were beaten badly and robbed and the other kidnapped on his way home from the office...well why would the other employees move, or the ones who are here stay. Scary stuff!!


Shelby H, Feb 7, 2012 @ 15:37
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 3

The other things that never seizes to amaze me is the complete absence of any traffic rules or enforcement. Commuting here has made me completely desensitized to red light jumping, driving without lights, yellow-box clotting, drinking and of-course, the inevitable mobile phone. Here's a fun depressing fact, in absolute numbers, the french, german and italian part have about the same number of traffic fatalities. (bpa.ch)

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The other things that never seizes to amaze me is the complete absence of any traffic rules or enforcement. Commuting here has made me completely desensitized to red light jumping, driving without lights, yellow-box clotting, drinking and of-course, the inevitable mobile phone. Here's a fun depressing fact, in absolute numbers, the french, german and italian part have about the same number of traffic fatalities. (bpa.ch)


mdiephuis, Feb 7, 2012 @ 23:49
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 4

The police in this town are completely USELESS.  I've lived in 5 countries in Europe and North America and never have I seen a worse police force.  They completely leave actual criminals alone, but so much as be black or Arab while crossing the border and they will treat you with a suspicion and condescendence that would make a narcissist blush.  I am not the slightest bit surprised the crime rate is higher than it used to be.  If one of them says they went to Police Academy, you can be sure they were talking about the movie.

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The police in this town are completely USELESS.  I've lived in 5 countries in Europe and North America and never have I seen a worse police force.  They completely leave actual criminals alone, but so much as be black or Arab while crossing the border and they will treat you with a suspicion and condescendence that would make a narcissist blush.  I am not the slightest bit surprised the crime rate is higher than it used to be.  If one of them says they went to Police Academy, you can be sure they were talking about the movie.


Nicelinguist, Feb 8, 2012 @ 23:29
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 5

Mdiephius what is yellow box clotting?


 

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Mdiephius what is yellow box clotting?


 


loublue, Feb 9, 2012 @ 09:26
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 6

Mdiephius what is yellow box clotting?

 


Feb 9, 12 09:26

Driving onto an intersection, regardless if you lane has green, while there is traffic jam thus blocking the entire intersection.  Word comes from the UK where you have these big yellow striped boxes on intersections as a friendly reminder. 

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Driving onto an intersection, regardless if you lane has green, while there is traffic jam thus blocking the entire intersection.  Word comes from the UK where you have these big yellow striped boxes on intersections as a friendly reminder. 


mdiephuis, Feb 9, 2012 @ 11:27
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 7

I have been mugged once at the station and burgled once also in the last 2 months despite all security measures taken.... the genevois attitude is to bury one's head in the sand and not take appropriate action quick enough. What concerns me most is the reluctance to discuss the issue enough publicly. I have alerted as many people locally as possible ...and when it comes up in discussion, it is amazing how many people have been attacked in the street or burgled up to 3 times in the last year ! When I leave teh city I certainly cannot recommend Geneva as a safe city to live, and this following my vast experience living aboard in other european cities. Watch out for neighbours giving out the code to pizza delivery, watch out for the emergency locksmith, and watch out also for handymen working months in the appartment building. And finally watch the poorly lit streets and agence immobilieres, who are arrogant and are too used to people reporting a theft, and almost laughing it off when one asks for the door code to be changed. When one pays high prices for rental one expects a good service from the agence ..Good luck to all !         

The text you are quoting:

I have been mugged once at the station and burgled once also in the last 2 months despite all security measures taken.... the genevois attitude is to bury one's head in the sand and not take appropriate action quick enough. What concerns me most is the reluctance to discuss the issue enough publicly. I have alerted as many people locally as possible ...and when it comes up in discussion, it is amazing how many people have been attacked in the street or burgled up to 3 times in the last year ! When I leave teh city I certainly cannot recommend Geneva as a safe city to live, and this following my vast experience living aboard in other european cities. Watch out for neighbours giving out the code to pizza delivery, watch out for the emergency locksmith, and watch out also for handymen working months in the appartment building. And finally watch the poorly lit streets and agence immobilieres, who are arrogant and are too used to people reporting a theft, and almost laughing it off when one asks for the door code to be changed. When one pays high prices for rental one expects a good service from the agence ..Good luck to all !         


ceri d, Nov 2, 2012 @ 20:00
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 8

It's good that the rising crime in Geneva is now a major headline locally and in the international press. This will force action (I hope) and speed up the allocation of resources for more police.


Msiephuis: fully agree on the yellow-box clotting, it drives me crazy to see that. I think that's less a police enforcement issue, and more an issue of driving etiqute, but still wish the police would do something about it.

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It's good that the rising crime in Geneva is now a major headline locally and in the international press. This will force action (I hope) and speed up the allocation of resources for more police.


Msiephuis: fully agree on the yellow-box clotting, it drives me crazy to see that. I think that's less a police enforcement issue, and more an issue of driving etiqute, but still wish the police would do something about it.


Nir Ofek, Nov 2, 2012 @ 21:10
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 9

Well, the police can't be bothered to handle criminals, but they can be bothered to deny a simple, normal, not-criminal citizen the right to leave their own flat.


A friend of mine was once hold for six hours in her flat by two police officers while two other officers secured the floor in front of her flat, and another two officers secured the entrance to her building. Not enough: 4 officers secured the car park in front of the building? Why? Because she lost conscience in the shower, didn't show up on time at work and her boss called the police. When they arrived at her flat, she was ready to go to work, but wasn't allowed to. The police kept her for two hours, then they called a doctor, because they were afraid she'd jump out of the window. The doctor came after another three hours and stayed for more than an hour at her place. When he left he still wasn't sure she was not into suicide.And my friend was glad she was allowed to call another friend for help who came immediately and fortunately was a doctor, too. If it hadn't been for that friend of hers, my friend would have ended up in a clinic.


All she did, or didn't do, because she couldn't do anything against it, was losing conscience in the shower and not being able for a while to call her employer and announce a late arrival. And it's not as if she was sick many times before or usually late at work. Nor did she show any behavioral disfunctions before - nor does she now. She's a perfectly normal, healthy, funny person.


The police explained their action with the following words: We have got the duty to protect people from theirselves.


Oh, that really is reassuring and comforting.


But that might be a reason why they can't be bothered to work on crimes and criminals as they have to protect too many innocent people from themselves.

The text you are quoting:

Well, the police can't be bothered to handle criminals, but they can be bothered to deny a simple, normal, not-criminal citizen the right to leave their own flat.


A friend of mine was once hold for six hours in her flat by two police officers while two other officers secured the floor in front of her flat, and another two officers secured the entrance to her building. Not enough: 4 officers secured the car park in front of the building? Why? Because she lost conscience in the shower, didn't show up on time at work and her boss called the police. When they arrived at her flat, she was ready to go to work, but wasn't allowed to. The police kept her for two hours, then they called a doctor, because they were afraid she'd jump out of the window. The doctor came after another three hours and stayed for more than an hour at her place. When he left he still wasn't sure she was not into suicide.And my friend was glad she was allowed to call another friend for help who came immediately and fortunately was a doctor, too. If it hadn't been for that friend of hers, my friend would have ended up in a clinic.


All she did, or didn't do, because she couldn't do anything against it, was losing conscience in the shower and not being able for a while to call her employer and announce a late arrival. And it's not as if she was sick many times before or usually late at work. Nor did she show any behavioral disfunctions before - nor does she now. She's a perfectly normal, healthy, funny person.


The police explained their action with the following words: We have got the duty to protect people from theirselves.


Oh, that really is reassuring and comforting.


But that might be a reason why they can't be bothered to work on crimes and criminals as they have to protect too many innocent people from themselves.


André O, Nov 2, 2012 @ 22:10
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 10

Well...there is met new to the area, been told that Geneva is a safe place to live! I come from the UK but spend 8 to 10 months each year at my home in South West Turkey where there are several break ins during the summer months by groups working their way down the coast and trying their luck at thieving from the high end and not so high end, holiday villas, but no muggings and generally local people honest. If you left your debit card in the cash machine it would either still be there or would have been handed into the bank for collection!

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Well...there is met new to the area, been told that Geneva is a safe place to live! I come from the UK but spend 8 to 10 months each year at my home in South West Turkey where there are several break ins during the summer months by groups working their way down the coast and trying their luck at thieving from the high end and not so high end, holiday villas, but no muggings and generally local people honest. If you left your debit card in the cash machine it would either still be there or would have been handed into the bank for collection!


wendy f, Nov 4, 2012 @ 12:55
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 11

I've been traveling and living in many places: amongst them, bad neighborhoods in Paris and banlieue, South of Italy, and poor cities of Eastern Europe.


Nowhere else I've seen drug dealers by the dozen as you can see in Paquis or Plainpalais.


Nowhere else I've seen so many scammers and other scum freely roaming the streets of the city center.


Almost every person I know here has been a victim of a pickpocketing, robbery, or theft in the last 2 years -- or an attempted one.  And again, I've heard that nowhere else.


But the most tragic aspect of all this (perhaps due to the Broken Windows theory) is the degradation of driving in Geneva.  Road violence and incivilities such as those mentioned by Mdiephuis used to be rare five years ago.  Now they're common.  I've had two hit-and-run (while my car was stationary so it was totally the other driver's fault) during the past year, and this happened to me only in Geneva.

The text you are quoting:

I've been traveling and living in many places: amongst them, bad neighborhoods in Paris and banlieue, South of Italy, and poor cities of Eastern Europe.


Nowhere else I've seen drug dealers by the dozen as you can see in Paquis or Plainpalais.


Nowhere else I've seen so many scammers and other scum freely roaming the streets of the city center.


Almost every person I know here has been a victim of a pickpocketing, robbery, or theft in the last 2 years -- or an attempted one.  And again, I've heard that nowhere else.


But the most tragic aspect of all this (perhaps due to the Broken Windows theory) is the degradation of driving in Geneva.  Road violence and incivilities such as those mentioned by Mdiephuis used to be rare five years ago.  Now they're common.  I've had two hit-and-run (while my car was stationary so it was totally the other driver's fault) during the past year, and this happened to me only in Geneva.


TheOmegaMan, Nov 12, 2012 @ 17:35
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
Post 12

I've been traveling and living in many places: amongst them, bad neighborhoods in Paris and banlieue, South of Italy, and poor cities of Eastern Europe.

Nowhere else I've seen drug dealers by the dozen as you can see in Paquis or Plainpalais.

Nowhere else I've seen so many scammers and other scum freely roaming the streets of the city center.

Almost every person I know here has been a victim of a pickpocketing, robbery, or theft in the last 2 years -- or an attempted one.  And again, I've heard that nowhere else.

But the most tragic aspect of all this (perhaps due to the Broken Windows theory) is the degradation of driving in Geneva.  Road violence and incivilities such as those mentioned by Mdiephuis used to be rare five years ago.  Now they're common.  I've had two hit-and-run (while my car was stationary so it was totally the other driver's fault) during the past year, and this happened to me only in Geneva.


Nov 12, 12 17:35

I don't know which south of Italy you are talking about ..... probably yours....I only know that my south of Italy "Puglia" is pretty quite and I'have never seen anything of what you describe or ,better,


it might happen as in any other place all over and in some bad neighborhoods.


Before making any wrong comment you have to think first,and specially be more specific!


 

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I don't know which south of Italy you are talking about ..... probably yours....I only know that my south of Italy "Puglia" is pretty quite and I'have never seen anything of what you describe or ,better,


it might happen as in any other place all over and in some bad neighborhoods.


Before making any wrong comment you have to think first,and specially be more specific!


 


Bluette, Nov 16, 2012 @ 18:00
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Re: NY Times Article - Crime in Geneva
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Casuistik, Jun 24, 2014 @ 22:05
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