I don't think anyone expects that killing Bin Laden will stop world terrorism or stop Al Quaida.

But still, getting him was a good move. It doesn't help the thousands of people his organisation killed, but it does give them some closure. And it sends the message that even if it takes 10 years - terrorists get their eventually.

yes but 

Hamas leader, Ismael Hanyeh the head of the Hamas had come out with the following statement today in response to the US operation

"we regard this as a continuation of the American policy based on oppression and the shedding of Moslem and Arab blood."

"We condamn the assassination and the killing of an Arab holy warrior -We ask God to offer him mercy with the true believers and the martyrs"

The Hamas leader has recently reconcilled with the Fatach and runs Gaza and the west bank.

The American spokesman reacted by stating that the "holy warrior" was found hiding with women and children , had been responsible for the deaths of thousands all over the world.

I wonder if this is the end of anything ...perhaps it is a beginning

if so lets hope this leads to more closure and at the same time opening of eyes

hi Brett

I totally sympathize with your feelings, however we ignore it those issues do influence the entire world .

I dont want another thread on the middle east, just wanted to say how i think that there should not be a double standard concerning terror, 

I am sorry to tell you though my opinion which is that whether you like it or not you will be influenced by world events unless you find an island,

some people think switzerland IS an island but i think it is not, it is in the heart of Europe and is influenced by world events just like any other place 

perhaps more so as it borders so many countries ..

Good luck though with everything 

US made product (Osama Bin Laden) is Finally grounded by US. That should be the topic of this thread. 

According to the Times, bin Laden et al were CIA employees, given the best training, arms, facilities, and lots of cash for many years. That's what the Times reported on August 24, 1998.

There was a time when osama was an American hero and now, they are saying they have killed him. When Zbigniew Brzezinski (10th United States National Security Advisor) had meeting with him to discuss, how to start so called "Jihad", a Holy War.

Even the locals in Pakistan says they never saw bin laden there, even many people have contacts in that house for many times. They never saw laden and suddenly they say they have killed osama bind laden. Exactly how they made a story with sadam hussain. Who used to be an American hero,

It doesn't matter to me. who is bin laden or mujaheddin, The only thing that matters to me is that. They have ruined my country. Everyday so many innocents people get killed in this so called war against terrorism in their "tom and Jerry chasing show". No one talks about, Thousands of people died in bomb blasts in Pakistan.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terrorist_incidents_in_Pakistan_since_2001

 No one talks about these people. No one talks about the reasons and who makes these terrorists. 

Wow, this thread is really taking interesting turns 

First of all i am definitely with Brett on wishing to escape the media but Alaska might not be a good choice because of  sara Palin breathing down your neck on that nice farm you are dreaming of.

I agree that the media and tv make people desensitized to some extent but then again i dont watch tv and i only read the newspapers online and offline and when i do watch tv it seems to me very powerful to actually see the news but of course the media is very biased and selects what it wants you to see

depending on the intention , there is no neutral media. 

Second of all, to all of you from countries that seem to have (,how shall i put it gently?) unstable regimes

start taking responsibility for the home grown terrorists,

come on, i know things are not that simple but surely no one is suggesting

the USA is responsible for the ideology of extreme Islam that wishes to delete everyone except ONE way of existing?

As for sadam Hussein, an innocent lamb he was not, and for how things turned out, the very idea of suggesting to put a bullet through the head of Bush seems to contradict any peaceful agenda on your behalf.

Putting a bulltet through anyone's head is a pretty violent statement , to say the least, no matter how angry you are ..

I think that giving the USA SOLE responsibility to what is wrong with all those

countries where tyrant rule by violence is not fair and not facing

responsibility.

It seems that a positive change is taking place in the Arab countries and people are rising up and demanding basic human rights from their leaders.

I am so tired of bashing the USA when there are so many corrupt regimes

that should take responsibilty for educating terrorists.

I do agree that it is very regretable that so many civilians have been killed

and yes, it does not make sense but it is probobly the case of finding a needle in a hay stack

Sitting back like a sitting duck and not taking action against terror is also

not an option.

What i am against is a double standard

when Israel eliminated the head of the Hamas , sheik yessin, Israel was condamned by Germany, UN, and France

when Obama eliminated osama he received calls congradulating him

Both terrorists were responsible for murdering thousands

while i would agree that eliminating the terrorists has a high price

what do you suggest as an alternative? sitting back and let your country

get run by terrorists and corrupt regimes?

why is it ok to have Moslems kill moslems but when an American soldier shoots a terrorist all of the sudden it is not ok ?

I would call this a double standard, as long as the Moslems kill their own it is considered a natural turn of events but when foreign powers intervene trying to control the situation , all of the sudden it is a war crime.

Yes, there has been far too much violence but then again try to go back

to retrace where it all began, certainly the USA did not put a gun to these people's heads and forced them to become terrorists.

As for 911 being minimilized, i recall when it happened everyone was anxious because no one knew what was going to happen,

it was a huge strike for the USA and who knows what could have happened

had the USA not taken action.

It is a whole different ball game now and surely the result would have been

different had the USA done nothing but of course it is very easy to say that NOW 

P.S. 

I agree that it would have been wonderful not to have used violence against terrorists however as they hide within the population what do you suggest? 

waiting till they pop up in London or New york on the job?

I also wonder how Pakistan had no idea Bin Laden was there , 

he was just at the center of their army training base

very interesting indeed...

I am aware that the USA had taken on  some very strange partners

and justified the means with the aim in mind however let us look at the alternative regimes of the area

how are they better ? because they excuse violence by making it legitimate

in their holy scriptures?  

There are many murderers, corrupted people live in societies, so what does it mean, you start dropping bombs on their cities, homes, kill their women, children in the name of collateral damage, What if tomorrow, Army comes and drop bombs on your house, kills everyone and after that with a smiling face, they excuse you, Ohh sorry, it was technical fault/Collateral damage, just because we had doubt a murderer is hiding at your neighbour's For God sake, its not about you or me, its not about bin laden, its not about any religion or faith, I'm talking about people, Who die, burnt alive, imagine the smell of burning human flesh. 

obviously everyone in Pakistan is wondering that bin laden was there, CIA has even has access to corrupted Pakistani Military HQ, if there was anything to know, they would have known it since the first day.


USA had taken some very strange partners. huh,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wars_involving_the_United_States

When you say "no none talks", I recognise you don't mean that literally but it is close to the truth and almost th whole truth when examining mainstream media including thos of my two native lands Canada and England.

Many do talk but are drowned out by the willing stenographic (pornographic) embedded mainstream journalists.  You will be familiar with Tariq Ali (The Clash of Fundamentalisms) who writes about these issues, Arundathi Roy on India and Kashmir etc.  Much on these topics can be found at Counterpunch and Common Dreams and many other non-mainstream media.

One mustn't forget the role of Britain in partition, perhaps even the father of modern Pakistan, Jinnah and his successors, the ISI close rleationship with the CIA et. al., Musharaf and Zadari to name a few.

I cannot begin to fathom your sense of frustration at how Pakistan is misperceived and misunderstood and more importantly raped and pillaged by foreigners and the wealthy upper class of Pakistan itself but hope that as the American empire winds down, the Indian economic miracle is exposed for the fraud it is, that Britain and others stop arming Pakistan, one day Pakistan can heal.  I might be waiting for pigs to fly however.

I agree but think you paint the military with too broad a brush.   I've read many active and retired US and UK military officials who voice dissent but unfortunately they seem to be outnumbered/outflanked by the careerists.

FYI: http://dnipogo.org/labyrinth/

I cannot agree with your wish.  I'd rather see him stand trial.  Former US marine and weapons inspector Scott Ritter was emphatic that no WMD existed and despite Bliar's sexed up dossier relying on an internet discovered PhD by a person of dubious links we know that Bliar is also a war criminal (even before the 2nd Iraq war when sanctions killed many unfortunate and innocent children.  Let's hold these people and the few rogue soldiers accountable and throw in the CEOs and others of arms manufacturers.  Saddam Hussein's brother (son?)-in-law also confirmed the destruction of WMD, was lured back to Iraq and executed.  Truth is stranger than fiction but no stranger to f(r)iction.

http://counterpunch.org/landau05062011.html

http://www.newsbusters.org/blogs/clay-waters/2011/04/28/ny-times-uses-wikileaks-discredit-guantanamo-bay#ixzz1KvFrbmil

i am really happy to hear from somone from Pakistan 

but i dont think everyone was surprised there that osama was hiding 

and while i full agree with the painful observation that innocent people 

are killed and how unjust that is 

i think that nations who produce and/or encourage terrorism and extermism 

certainly have to be confronted with certain consequences to the choices 

their leaders make , sadly innocent people suffer

which is probobly why finally people are rising up and hopefully 

a change is coming to the middle east and the whole  east but first 

people have to demand that change and not expect the countries 

affected by terror to be sitting ducks either.

Again, killing is always wrong, it is a lose lose situation but then again 

the goal is to not allow those killing and plotting to kill to continue their 

actions ,

is the goal acheived ? probobly not 

is doing nothing an option ? probobly not 

is this a good way of dealing with violence by  using violence? most probobly not 

is there a better way ? there must be, there should be but still no ideas yet

let us hope things will improve 

racism dies out and peace comes 

Rejoice Not!

The Death of Bin Laden and the Future of Bin Ladenism

By URI AVNERY

“REJOICE NOT when thine enemy falleth, and let not thine heart be glad when he stumbleth, / Lest the Lord see [it], and it displease him, and he turn away his wrath from him.”.

This is one of the most beautiful passages in the Bible (Proverbs 24:17-18), and indeed in the Hebrew language. It is beautiful in other languages , too, though no translation comes close to the beauty of the original.

Of course, it is natural to be glad when one’s enemy is defeated, and the thirst for revenge is a human trait. But gloating – schadenfreude - is something different altogether. An ugly thing.

Ancient Hebrew legend has it that God got very angry when the Children of Israel rejoiced as their Egyptian pursuers drowned in the Red Sea. “My creatures are drowning in the sea,” God admonished them, “And you are singing?”

These thoughts crossed my mind when I saw the TV shots of jubilant crowds of young Americans shouting and dancing in the street. Natural, but unseemly. The contorted faces and the aggressive body language were no different from those of crowds in Sudan or Somalia. The ugly sides of human nature seem to be the same everywhere. http://counterpunch.org/avnery05092011.html

An excerpt from Uri Avnery on terrorism and the use of violence against those accused of being terrorists:

THE REJOICING may be premature. Most probably, al-Qaeda did not die with Osama bin-Laden. The effect may be entirely different.

In 1942 the British killed Abraham Stern, whom they called a terrorist. Stern, whose nom de guerre was Ya’ir, was hiding in a cupboard in an apartment in Tel Aviv. In his case too, it was the movements of his courier that gave him away. After making sure that he was the right man, the British police officer in command shot him dead.

That was not the end of his group – rather, a new beginning. It became the bane of British rule in Palestine. Known as the “Stern Gang” (its real name was “Fighters for the Freedom of Israel”), it carried out the most daring attacks on British installations and played a significant role in persuading the colonial power to leave the country.   

Hamas did not die when the Israeli air force killed Sheikh Ahmad Yassin, the paralyzed founder, ideologue and symbol of Hamas. As a martyr he was far more effective than as a living leader. His martyrdom attracted many new fighters to the cause. Killing a person does not kill an idea. The Christians even took the cross as their symbol. http://counterpunch.org/avnery05092011.html

Yes those that support terrorism should face some consequences but not if you are the biggest guy on the block!

By SAUL LANDAU

"He who sows winds will reap hurricanes."

"Quien siembra vientos recogerá tempestades" – Spanish proverb

Luis Posada Carriles, now in his 80s has returned to Miami as a triumphant hero after an El Paso jury acquitted him of 11 counts of lying on an immigration form. Strangely enough, the Justice Department had presented evidence showing Posada had orchestrated a series of bombings in Cuba in 1997 – which killed one tourist.

Posada returned to Miami where he makes celebrity appearances at fundraisers. According to one US official who requested anonymity, “Posada has become a colossal pain in the ass.”

The blow back syndrome has struck again. In the 1960s and early 70s CIA officials worked intimately with Posada, but he didn’t mind making money from other three letter agencies. He planned terrorism and simultaneously informed on his collaborators. An October 14, 1976 CIA memo from Caracas reports that “a few days after a fundraising dinner Posada was overheard to say `we are going to hit a Cuban airplane [bombs exploded on Cubana 455] and that `Orlando [Bosch] has the details’.”

On November 10, 2001, Baby Bush warned UN members: “Some governments still turn a blind eye to the terrorists, hoping the threat will pass them by. They are mistaken. The allies of terror are equally guilty and equally accountable.” But Bush and his Florida congressional backers didn’t mean Bosch and Posada -- freedom fighters not terrorists.

http://counterpunch.org/landau04292011.html

More supporters of terrorism:

The Bush dynasty and the Cuban criminals http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2002/dec/02/usa.books

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011/apr/28/orlando-bosch-cuban-exile-dies

While those that don't promote terrorism but rather try to prevent it sit behind bars in the US:  

http://www.google.com/search?q=cuban+five&domains=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org&sitesearch=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.counterpunch.org