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Swiss Border Controls

It has been reported that Swiss Customs officials are asking to see the passports of all passengers on trains from Italy. I understand this action by the Swiss customs or border authorities to be a breach the Schengen Agreement and the domestic law implementing it. If you are subject to a passport or immigration check (not merely a check to see if you are importing goods and paying appropriate dutes, which they are entitled to do) please let me know. If possible, note the name of one or more of the offficers carrying out such checks and email me with the date, time and train...and your name and contact if you wish or anonymous is fine. Thanks in adavance for helping to secure the rule of law.


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It has been reported that Swiss Customs officials are asking to see the passports of all passengers on trains from Italy. I understand this action by the Swiss customs or border authorities to be a breach the Schengen Agreement and the domestic law implementing it. If you are subject to a passport or immigration check (not merely a check to see if you are importing goods and paying appropriate dutes, which they are entitled to do) please let me know. If possible, note the name of one or more of the offficers carrying out such checks and email me with the date, time and train...and your name and contact if you wish or anonymous is fine. Thanks in adavance for helping to secure the rule of law.



Curtis DJun 9, 2014 @ 18:07
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 1

That happened to me coming in from Frankfort 2 weeks ago. I didn't think that was normal. I'll make sure to report it next time.

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That happened to me coming in from Frankfort 2 weeks ago. I didn't think that was normal. I'll make sure to report it next time.


Michael M, Jun 22, 2014 @ 20:16
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 2

Sorry, I meant 2 months ago.

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Sorry, I meant 2 months ago.


Michael M, Jun 22, 2014 @ 20:18
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 3

I got stopped leaving Switzerland recently.   I was told to pay a speeding ticket for 400 francs.   Even though I could demonstrate that I wasn't even in Switzerland on the alledged date of the offence the border guards made me pay the "fine" or miss the flight.  How corrupt is Switzerland these days?

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I got stopped leaving Switzerland recently.   I was told to pay a speeding ticket for 400 francs.   Even though I could demonstrate that I wasn't even in Switzerland on the alledged date of the offence the border guards made me pay the "fine" or miss the flight.  How corrupt is Switzerland these days?


tax_exile, Jun 27, 2014 @ 11:01
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 4

I got stopped leaving Switzerland recently.   I was told to pay a speeding ticket for 400 francs.   Even though I could demonstrate that I wasn't even in Switzerland on the alledged date of the offence the border guards made me pay the "fine" or miss the flight.  How corrupt is Switzerland these days?


Jun 27, 14 11:01

This is not an example of corruption. It would be, if the guard had let you pay him CHF 200.00 so you could leave.


I don't know the details of your case, but there seems to be no indications, that there was something off the books, that happened here.

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This is not an example of corruption. It would be, if the guard had let you pay him CHF 200.00 so you could leave.


I don't know the details of your case, but there seems to be no indications, that there was something off the books, that happened here.


Alan S, Jul 17, 2014 @ 10:21
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 5

You are probably right that forcing someone to pay a ticket without due process does not necessarily indicate corruption but it does indicate an abuse of power.

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You are probably right that forcing someone to pay a ticket without due process does not necessarily indicate corruption but it does indicate an abuse of power.


Curtis D, Jul 17, 2014 @ 10:36
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 6

You are probably right that forcing someone to pay a ticket without due process does not necessarily indicate corruption but it does indicate an abuse of power.


Jul 17, 14 10:36

tax_exile did not claim, that there was no due process. I seriously doubt, that he didn't get a instruction on the right to appeal. Plus I would really like to know, if it was the first time, that tax_exile had been made aware of the situation.


I do understand his frustration to a part, but it is not the job of a border guard to check if tax_exile was guilty or not. We have courts for that, his job is to enforce the laws.

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tax_exile did not claim, that there was no due process. I seriously doubt, that he didn't get a instruction on the right to appeal. Plus I would really like to know, if it was the first time, that tax_exile had been made aware of the situation.


I do understand his frustration to a part, but it is not the job of a border guard to check if tax_exile was guilty or not. We have courts for that, his job is to enforce the laws.


Alan S, Jul 17, 2014 @ 10:46
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 7

Neither a police officer or a customs officer has the legal right to force a person to pay a ticket under threat of detention. By making this threat the customs officer abused her/his power.

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Neither a police officer or a customs officer has the legal right to force a person to pay a ticket under threat of detention. By making this threat the customs officer abused her/his power.


Curtis D, Jul 17, 2014 @ 10:52
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 8

Neither a police officer or a customs officer has the legal right to force a person to pay a ticket under threat of detention. By making this threat the customs officer abused her/his power.


Jul 17, 14 10:52

Again, you are making asinine claims. tax_exile did not say, that he was forced to pay a ticket or be thrown in prison. That would be illegal, as far as I know. But again, I highly doubt, that your claims are based on reality. Border guards do have the right to collect fines (741.03 Ordnungsbussengesetz §9f) and as a Swiss, I see no reason, why foreigners should be excempt from paying their fines, as I have to.

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Again, you are making asinine claims. tax_exile did not say, that he was forced to pay a ticket or be thrown in prison. That would be illegal, as far as I know. But again, I highly doubt, that your claims are based on reality. Border guards do have the right to collect fines (741.03 Ordnungsbussengesetz §9f) and as a Swiss, I see no reason, why foreigners should be excempt from paying their fines, as I have to.


Alan S, Jul 17, 2014 @ 14:38
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 9

Yes it does. The Schengen Accords and the Swiss implementing legislation state that only customs inspections may be undertaken, not passport control. 

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Yes it does. The Schengen Accords and the Swiss implementing legislation state that only customs inspections may be undertaken, not passport control. 


Curtis D, Jul 18, 2014 @ 08:44
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 10

You maybe Swiss but you ate pretty ignorant of your own laws. First their is no section 9f in ordance 741.03. Second, if you read 742.03 you will see it applies only to transport fines being issued on the spot, for things like riding public transport without a ticket. Border guards don't have the right to enforce traffic tickets. They cannot even enforce fines, although they could refer someone to a court that if it provides due process  could enforce a fine. I fear the border guards who apparently threatened to detain someone to force them to pay a ticket were as ignorant of the law as yourself. Ignorance of the law, however, is no defense to the criminal offense of abuse of power. If tax_exile brought this matter to the attention of the Swiss police, the border guards could be prosecuted...although that might depend on how honest or corrupt the Swiss police to whom it was reported were. 

The text you are quoting:

You maybe Swiss but you ate pretty ignorant of your own laws. First their is no section 9f in ordance 741.03. Second, if you read 742.03 you will see it applies only to transport fines being issued on the spot, for things like riding public transport without a ticket. Border guards don't have the right to enforce traffic tickets. They cannot even enforce fines, although they could refer someone to a court that if it provides due process  could enforce a fine. I fear the border guards who apparently threatened to detain someone to force them to pay a ticket were as ignorant of the law as yourself. Ignorance of the law, however, is no defense to the criminal offense of abuse of power. If tax_exile brought this matter to the attention of the Swiss police, the border guards could be prosecuted...although that might depend on how honest or corrupt the Swiss police to whom it was reported were. 


Curtis D, Jul 18, 2014 @ 08:46
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 11

Corrected: You maybe Swiss but you are pretty ignorant of your own laws. First there is no section 9f in ordinance 741.03. Second, if you read 741.03 you will see it applies only to transport fines being issued on the spot, for things like riding public transport without a ticket. Border guards don't have the right to enforce traffic tickets. They cannot even enforce fines, although they could refer someone to a court which, if it provides due process, could enforce a fine. I fear the border guards who apparently threatened to detain someone to force them to pay a ticket were as ignorant of the law as yourself. Ignorance of the law, however, is no defense to the criminal offense of abuse of power. If tax_exile brought this matter to the attention of the Swiss police, the border guards could be prosecuted...although that might depend on how honest or corrupt the Swiss police to whom it was reported were. 

The text you are quoting:

Corrected: You maybe Swiss but you are pretty ignorant of your own laws. First there is no section 9f in ordinance 741.03. Second, if you read 741.03 you will see it applies only to transport fines being issued on the spot, for things like riding public transport without a ticket. Border guards don't have the right to enforce traffic tickets. They cannot even enforce fines, although they could refer someone to a court which, if it provides due process, could enforce a fine. I fear the border guards who apparently threatened to detain someone to force them to pay a ticket were as ignorant of the law as yourself. Ignorance of the law, however, is no defense to the criminal offense of abuse of power. If tax_exile brought this matter to the attention of the Swiss police, the border guards could be prosecuted...although that might depend on how honest or corrupt the Swiss police to whom it was reported were. 


Curtis D, Jul 18, 2014 @ 08:57
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 12

Yes it does. The Schengen Accords and the Swiss implementing legislation state that only customs inspections may be undertaken, not passport control. 


Jul 18, 14 08:44

http://www.ezv.admin.ch/themen/04097/index.html?lang=en


"This means that our synergy-rich customs system will be retained and within the scope of customs controls will check the identity of people in future as well.


A customs check remains a customs check even if on the occasion of a customs check involving people for reasons to do with staff safety or in connection with carrying out customs duties, identity papers are examined and queries are activated via the information system. This will not become a people check, it is and remains a customs check."


So they actually have the right to check your passport.

The text you are quoting:

http://www.ezv.admin.ch/themen/04097/index.html?lang=en


"This means that our synergy-rich customs system will be retained and within the scope of customs controls will check the identity of people in future as well.


A customs check remains a customs check even if on the occasion of a customs check involving people for reasons to do with staff safety or in connection with carrying out customs duties, identity papers are examined and queries are activated via the information system. This will not become a people check, it is and remains a customs check."


So they actually have the right to check your passport.


Alan S, Jul 18, 2014 @ 09:27
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 13

What one official says does not make the law. Read the law. It is clear that they do not have the right. But if you and Swiss officials wish to live in ignorance of the law that is fine with me. Other will make a living off of legal suits against ignorant Swiss customs officials. Agian, in this case the Swiss customs officials appear to have acted illegally against tax_exile. 

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What one official says does not make the law. Read the law. It is clear that they do not have the right. But if you and Swiss officials wish to live in ignorance of the law that is fine with me. Other will make a living off of legal suits against ignorant Swiss customs officials. Agian, in this case the Swiss customs officials appear to have acted illegally against tax_exile. 


Curtis D, Jul 18, 2014 @ 10:20
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 14

Corrected: You maybe Swiss but you are pretty ignorant of your own laws. First there is no section 9f in ordinance 741.03. Second, if you read 741.03 you will see it applies only to transport fines being issued on the spot, for things like riding public transport without a ticket. Border guards don't have the right to enforce traffic tickets. They cannot even enforce fines, although they could refer someone to a court which, if it provides due process, could enforce a fine. I fear the border guards who apparently threatened to detain someone to force them to pay a ticket were as ignorant of the law as yourself. Ignorance of the law, however, is no defense to the criminal offense of abuse of power. If tax_exile brought this matter to the attention of the Swiss police, the border guards could be prosecuted...although that might depend on how honest or corrupt the Swiss police to whom it was reported were. 


Jul 18, 14 08:57

Pot calling the kettle black, matey?


The f after an § refers to the next article. You then claim, that 741,03 applies to transport fines like public transportation. Which is not factual.


For your claim, that border guards don't have the right to enforce traffic tickes, I would like to see some evidence.


You again make claimse about detaining someone for paying fines. Bring some evidence for such claims.


The rest of your post is just asinine assumptions not based on any facts and not worth my time.

The text you are quoting:

Pot calling the kettle black, matey?


The f after an § refers to the next article. You then claim, that 741,03 applies to transport fines like public transportation. Which is not factual.


For your claim, that border guards don't have the right to enforce traffic tickes, I would like to see some evidence.


You again make claimse about detaining someone for paying fines. Bring some evidence for such claims.


The rest of your post is just asinine assumptions not based on any facts and not worth my time.


Alan S, Jul 18, 2014 @ 10:06
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 15

What one official says does not make the law. Read the law. It is clear that they do not have the right. But if you and Swiss officials wish to live in ignorance of the law that is fine with me. Other will make a living off of legal suits against ignorant Swiss customs officials. Agian, in this case the Swiss customs officials appear to have acted illegally against tax_exile. 


Jul 18, 14 10:20

Please back up your asinine claims with facts.

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Please back up your asinine claims with facts.


Alan S, Jul 18, 2014 @ 10:26
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 16

I should point out that there are two issues raised in this thread:


First, that Swiss customs officials do not have the right to carry out passport controls. According to the Schengen Accords these are to be carried out at the first point of entry into 'Schengenland' by immigration officials. Of course, customs officials can ask for identification if they have grounds to suspect someone of committing a crime against the customs laws.


Second, Swiss customs officials have no right to enforce fines. They can levy fines but only courts can enforce the fines after providing due process.


Finaly, I must admit that I have been quite amazed in about thirty years of travel to Switzerland how ignorant most Swiss are of the most basic laws. I guess it shoudl nto suprise me that the average citizens is ignorant of the law, but it does surprise me that Swiss officials are often ignorant of the law. It is troubling sign of a society that has lost respect for the rule of law, which in my view means it has lost its respect for individuals in that society whether Swiss of foreign.   

The text you are quoting:

I should point out that there are two issues raised in this thread:


First, that Swiss customs officials do not have the right to carry out passport controls. According to the Schengen Accords these are to be carried out at the first point of entry into 'Schengenland' by immigration officials. Of course, customs officials can ask for identification if they have grounds to suspect someone of committing a crime against the customs laws.


Second, Swiss customs officials have no right to enforce fines. They can levy fines but only courts can enforce the fines after providing due process.


Finaly, I must admit that I have been quite amazed in about thirty years of travel to Switzerland how ignorant most Swiss are of the most basic laws. I guess it shoudl nto suprise me that the average citizens is ignorant of the law, but it does surprise me that Swiss officials are often ignorant of the law. It is troubling sign of a society that has lost respect for the rule of law, which in my view means it has lost its respect for individuals in that society whether Swiss of foreign.   


Curtis D, Jul 18, 2014 @ 10:22
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Re: Swiss Border Controls
Post 17

Have not worked out how to create a new thread so using this old one.


Coming back to Switzerland last week from UK I had to show my passport, locator/location form which had not found on the iata check kist but was able to download and fill in at Manchester airport and wait for the confirmastion from FOPH which came after about 5 mins AND MY C PERMIT which I never take with me but is now needed to prove that whast you put on the locator form is correct.  I had an understanding border guard who also explained that the same is valid if I go to France.  I did not have to show my vaccination certificate.


Points to bear in mind


1. Had I not had my i phone with me, I would not have been able to fill in and send the locator form and have no idea what would have happened.


2. On the locator form you have to include your seat number on the plane


3. I only had cabin baggage and in theory could havce gone straight to the gate where problems could have been more serious especially if I was running late..  Fortunately I went to check-in to make sure I had the correct documentation.


4. Do these rules apply to day trips to France? I have no idea


5. I did not have to show a vaccination certificate


6. UK is now a third world country. Swiss and EU citizens have their separate passport queue and I assume only have to show passport and locator form


 


 

The text you are quoting:

Have not worked out how to create a new thread so using this old one.


Coming back to Switzerland last week from UK I had to show my passport, locator/location form which had not found on the iata check kist but was able to download and fill in at Manchester airport and wait for the confirmastion from FOPH which came after about 5 mins AND MY C PERMIT which I never take with me but is now needed to prove that whast you put on the locator form is correct.  I had an understanding border guard who also explained that the same is valid if I go to France.  I did not have to show my vaccination certificate.


Points to bear in mind


1. Had I not had my i phone with me, I would not have been able to fill in and send the locator form and have no idea what would have happened.


2. On the locator form you have to include your seat number on the plane


3. I only had cabin baggage and in theory could havce gone straight to the gate where problems could have been more serious especially if I was running late..  Fortunately I went to check-in to make sure I had the correct documentation.


4. Do these rules apply to day trips to France? I have no idea


5. I did not have to show a vaccination certificate


6. UK is now a third world country. Swiss and EU citizens have their separate passport queue and I assume only have to show passport and locator form


 


 


Paul E, Nov 7, 2021 @ 12:33
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