Mahmoud Al Sarsak

Footballer of the year

On hunger strike for 90 days

http://electronicintifada.net/blogs/ali-abunimah/israel-free-footballer-mahmoud-sarsak-after-epic-3-month-hunger-strike-lawyer

Guys, is this the place to do this here? Wether right or wrong - I'd like to stay away from that - but in IMHO this shouldn't be here....

Glocals was created by Israelis. You boycott Israeli products - we don't see you here anymore. Deal?

No deal, it is Irelevant that Glocals was founded by Israelis.

I' am raising awareness of what crimes Israel has committed. Being in Switzerland, I beleive it is a free country to do so.

Just a glimpse at how Palestinians are treated in Lebanon:

http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/lebanon-eyes-palestinian-refugees

I'm waiting for your call to boycott Lebanese products...

I agree with Casuistik's logic. Glocals is ran by Israelies. If Salem is calling to boycot Israel, he should start with Glocals. Guess that's goodbye to Salem.

I am often amazed with the Arab's obsession with Israel as opposed to their lack of action when it comes to other Arab countries and their human rights record. So many arab regimes treat their own people in sub-human ways, torture and kill their own, and give their citizens almost zero rights. Look at all the recent Arab revolutions to understand how much regular Arabs were crushed by their regimes. But you don't hear much about that, it's all Israel.

I dont think " all arabs" think its" all Israel'!!! Thats probably why there were all those revolutions in most of the arab countries against their regimes. However, I do agree, that this website is definately not a place to call for boycotting Israeli products. If anything, its a proof of the opposit! It's a prrof that some people from Israel created a platform where people could communicate with no discrimination! ... Hope you guys try to enjoy the luxury of having such a sunny lovely evening in a city like Geneva! :)

Ayman... err... amen to that, my friend!

You are my idol man :)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AbIQto3KPUM

The concept of promoting boycotting products from a certain country reminds me of old ladies organising a soiree againt poverty where they end up spending more than the raise! maybe if you go to the source of the problem and you discuss why regimes in the area promote discrimination, labelling, stereotyping, spreading fear, etc , it might be worth it. But just to spread more hate and ignorance... come on! ... seriously! :)

If Glocals is an Israeli platform so be it, I can't change that but can only try and make the rest of the international community in Geneva and beyond aware of the facts and promote a boycott to Israeli goods.

If you think it's an arab obsession, you are very wrong, some of my best friends are Jews and oppose Israel, for Example: David Landy and David cronin (the Guardian) are Irish nationals. 
 

I' am not spreading hate or ignorance, people should have the choice whether or not they want to Boycott Israel

BDS  is a worldwide movement http://www.bdsmovement.net/bdsintro

The global movement for a campaign of Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) against Israel until it complies with international law and Palestinian rights was initiated by Palestinian civil society in 2005, and is coordinated by the Palestinian BDS National Committee (BNC), established in 2007. BDS is a strategy that allows people of conscience to play an effective role in the Palestinian struggle for justice.

For decades, Israel has denied Palestinians their fundamental rights of freedom, equality, and self-determination through ethnic cleansing, colonization, racial discrimination, and military occupation. Despite abundant condemnation of Israeli policies by the UN, other international bodies, and preeminent human rights organisations, the world community has failed to hold Israel accountable and enforce compliance with basic principles of law. Israel’s crimes have continued with impunity.

In view of this continued failure, Palestinian civil society called for a global citizens’ response. On July 9 2005, a year after the International Court of Justice’s historic advisory opinion on the illegality of Israel’s Wall in the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), a clear majority of Palestinian civil society called upon their counterparts and people of conscience all over the world to launch broad boycotts, implement divestment initiatives, and to demand sanctions against Israel, until Palestinian rights are recognised in full compliance with international law.

The campaign for boycotts, divestment and sanctions (BDS) is shaped by a rights-based approach and highlights the three broad sections of the Palestinian people: the refugees, those under military occupation in the West Bank and Gaza Strip, and Palestinians in Israel. The call urges various forms of boycott against Israel until it meets its obligations under international law by:

The BDS call was endorsed by over 170 Palestinian political parties, organizations, trade unions and movements. The signatories represent the refugees, Palestinians in the OPT, and Palestinian citizens of Israel.

Boycotts target products and companies (Israeli and international) that profit from the violation of Palestinian rights, as well as Israeli sporting, cultural and academic institutions. Anyone can boycott Israeli goods, simply by making sure that they don’t buy produce made in Israel or by Israeli companies. Campaigners and groups call on consumers not to buy Israeli goods and on businesses not to buy or sell them.

Israeli cultural and academic institutions directly contribute to maintaining, defending or whitewashing the oppression of Palestinians, as Israel deliberately tries to boost its image internationally through academic and cultural collaborations. As part of the boycott, academics, artists and consumers are campaigning against such collaboration and ‘rebranding’. A growing number of artists have refused to exhibit or play in Israel.

Divestment means targeting corporations complicit in the violation of Palestinian rights and ensuring that the likes of university investment portfolios and pension funds are not used to finance such companies. These efforts raise awareness about the reality of Israel’s policies and encourage companies to use their economic influence to pressure Israel to end its systematic denial of Palestinian rights.

Sanctions are an essential part of demonstrating disapproval for a country’s actions. Israel’s membership of various diplomatic and economic forums provides both an unmerited veneer of respectability and material support for its crimes. By calling for sanctions against Israel, campaigners educate society about violations of international law and seek to end the complicity of other nations in these violations.

The BDS National Committee

The efforts to coordinate the BDS campaign, that began to grow rapidly as soon as/once the 2005 Call was made public, culminated in the first Palestinian BDS Conference held in Ramallah in November 2007. Out of this conference emerged the BDS National Committee (BNC) as the Palestinian coordinating body for the BDS campaign worldwide. See the BNC page for more details.

@Salem:

You imply that because some Jews oppose Israel, then all critism against Israel must be true. I just don't get that argument. Let's take the other side of it: more Jews support Israel than oppose Israel. Would that mean Israel's policies are right? No. You see, the argument of "some Jews support / oppose Israel" doesn't mean anything. 

Here's my suggestion to you: Syria is killing hundreds of Syrians each month AS WE SPEAK. That's far more serious and pressing than what's going on in Israel. Focus your energy on raising awarness for that. 

And guess who's going to suffer the most if the Israeli economy is weakened by a moronic boycott...

Economic Relations Between Israel and the Palestinian Authority (Information Division, Israel Foreign Ministry - Jerusalem)

Introduction

It is Israel's clear political and security interest to act for the advancement of the Palestinian economy and the well-being of the Palestinian population. The two economies are strongly interrelated, and this relationship between them during the interim period has been set forth in the "Paris Agreement" (incorporated into the Interim Agreement - "Oslo 2"). In order to prevent the formation of economic borders and to allow the free flow of good, the agreement creates a uniform customs framework for Israel and the Palestinian Authority (PA). Although criticism is sometimes voiced against the agreement in international forums (mainly due to political motivations), it is clear that any departure from this principle would primarily damage the Palestinian economy.

Employment in Israel

1.In view of the importance to the Palestinian GNP of income from labor in Israel, and in light of Israel's interest in reducing the numbers of foreign workers, actions are being taken to allow more Palestinians to work within Israel proper. As a consequence of this policy, the number of Palestinian workers in Israel is being determined by market forces alone (within security requirements) and the number of work permits is not subject to quantitative limits.

2.Palestinians wishing to work in Israel must obtain a work permit. Today, about 45,000 Palestinians holding permits work in Israel - 25,000 from the Gaza district and 20,000 from Judea-Samaria.

3.Another 12,000 Palestinians work in industrial parks and Israeli settlements within the West Bank and Gaza - 3,500 in the Erez industrial park and settlements in the Gaza Strip and 8,500 in such areas in Judea-Samaria.

4.In all, Israelis currently employ about 57,000 inhabitants of the territories under permit.

5.Additionally, tens of thousands (20,000-40,000) are known to cross from Judea-Samaria into Israel without permits each day for work.

6.This brings the total number of Palestinians employed by Israelis to 80,000-100,000 - the highest number in several years.

Israeli Initiatives to Increase Palestinian Employment

In view of Israel's intent to replace foreign workers with Palestinians and its interest in improving the economic situation in the PA areas, the Israeli Government has recently announced several new initiatives with respect to employment of Palestinians within Israel:

In order to ease the burden on those workers who commute several hours daily to and from Israel, it has been decided to allow 5,000 laborers to stay in Israel overnight.

A program has been approved to allow 30,000 Palestinian workers to enter Israel, even during security closures of the territories.

In order to recruit more Palestinian workers into the Israeli construction industry, an employment fair was recently held in the Erez industrial park.

Commerce and Merchants

1.Goods are allowed to flow freely between Israel and the PA. Furthermore, there is no restriction on the number of trucks that may cross between the sides; the extent of traffic reflects market requirements alone.

2.In an effort to advance the activities of the Palestinian business community, Israel has designated a group of merchants, notables, and businessmen who may enter Israel under special permits. The program currently includes 7,500 businessmen from Judea-Samaria and 4,500 from the Gaza district - the highest number ever.

3.The extent of bilateral trade between Israel and the Palestinians now stands at $2.0-$2.5 billion annually.

4.The volume of trade measured in traffic (not including Israeli vehicles) is about 800-900 truckloads daily.

Industrial Areas and Investments

1.As part of its efforts to improve the economic situation of the Palestinians, Israel is acting, together with the Palestinian Authority, to build additional industrial parks in Gaza and the West Bank.

2.The concept of joint industrial parks along the dividing line, elaborated several years ago, has several advantages:

a.conomic development (Palestinian and Israeli) b.Reinforcement of Israel-Palestinian economic cooperation c.Convenient access for workers and employers d.Preventing friction between Palestinian workers and Israelis

3.One industrial park is in operation today, at Erez. More than 80 enterprises are located there, providing jobs for 3,000 workers from Gaza. Almost half of the enterprises are owned by Palestinian entrepreneurs.

4.The plan to establish an industrial park at the Karni checkpoint (GIE-Gaza Industrial Estate) is in its advanced stages of implementation. Israel has contributed $7.5 million to the project, which is expected to become operative in the middle of 1998. The Karni industrial park, located in territory controlled by the Palestinian Authority, is to serve as the central industrial area of the Gaza Strip and to provide tens of thousands of jobs.

5.Additionally, staff work is being done by the relevant agencies (Ministry of Industry and Trade, Ministry of Defense, Coordinator of Government Operations in the Territories) to designate a site for the first joint industrial park in Judea-Samaria.

The Transfer of Taxes

1.Under the Paris Agreement, Israel forwards to the Palestinians monthly clearances on five accounts:

a.Import Taxes b.Value Added Tax c.Fuel Excise Tax d.Income Tax e.Health Tax

2.These transfers totaled NIS 1,871 million ($540 million) in 1997, as against NIS 1,416 million ($423 million) in 1996.

3.This sums represent 60-65% of the Palestinian budget - clearly illustrating the importance of the Paris Agreement for the Palestinian Authority.

Conclusion

Israel is making considerable efforts to improve the economic situation within the areas of the Palestinian Authority. These efforts can be seen in the increase of Palestinians working in Israel, free passage (subject to security inspections) for Palestinian exports and imports, cooperation with the PA in establishing joint industrial parks, and the promotion of foreign investment within PA areas. Israel has found, however, that the PA occasionally subordinates economic considerations to political ones. In order for these initiatives to succeed, Israel requires the responsiveness and cooperation of both the Palestinians and the international community at large.

Thank you very much for the detailed enlighting definition of BSD! :)

so, are you actually trying to understand what everyone is telling you or is this a one way conversation where you just copy paste what you were told to copy paste all over the web?!!

what has BSD achieved for Palestenian rights since 2005?!

Do you think you are helping Palestenians and their image by going on a portal created by Israelis to boycott Israeli products?!!!

Do you think demonstrating ignorance and announcing boycotting Israeli people would change their politicians positions?!

You are not doing Palestenians any favors, even worse, you are just making all Arabs look bad by spreading those messages and starting those forums.

Try to better use this site in communicating instead of boycotting, you will see that you might learn much more! :)

I' am giving you the detailed defenition of BDS as a worldwide movement to enlighten you as you were referring Boycutt to an '' old ladies organising a soiree.. ''

Since 2005 we have made more and more people and Multinationals aware of what Israeli crimes has been commited and to avoid doing business with the Apartheid. Also we wencourage artists  not to perform in Tel Aviv.

You calling this Boycutt ignorant, it is your own view, politicians will have to react once Israeli markets close in Europe.

I quote from Labor MK Benyamin Ben Eliezer last year: “Listen, Bibi,” MK Benjamin Ben-Eliezer growled, “I congratulate you on your hug from Congress, but it will not take us off the path to confrontation. Our situation in Europe is very bad. President Obama said everything we wanted him to say. Now you have to announce that Israel will vote for a Palestinian state in the UN this September … As a former industry and trade minister, I tell you: The markets are closing. We will suffer a devastating economic blow.”

Again this is not an Arab uprising issue it is a universal one, like what happenned in South Africa, it was wrong then, Apartheid is also wrong in Israel.

I' am defending the argument this being an Arab absession against Israel which is not the case, in the Republicof Ireland we have political parties that are all for the Boycott.

In the Republic of Ireland we are more aware of what a brutal army can do, like the British did to us.

I'll be the judge of what or where I spend my energy, cheers.

OK Salem, so your new argument is now that Israel practices apartheid. Great catch phrase to catch people who don't know the facts. Let's see if it holds in reality.

Apartheid is racial segregation, where the ruling party uses political, legal, and economic discrimination against its citizens. In Israel and Palestine the discpute is over land, not over discrimination.

The palestinians in the west bank, represented by Hammas, openly say they want to erase Israel and establish Palestine on the land that will free up with the Israelis are dead. Israel keeps settling in disputed lands. A complex scenario where both sides are messing up for sure. But the argument of apartheid is totally the wrong analogy, as is the argument that Israel is the clear bad one in that complex situation.

Wake up, open your eyes to reality. 

And speaking of reality: if your boycott does work and Israel's economy suffers, the Palestinian economy will suffer much more as it depends on Israel .

BDS mouvement has always been against Israel being Apartheid

Being sold by Migros and Coop there are some examples like SodaStream products, new potatoes and dates of MAJOUL Hadiklaim, this has to be denounced as an apartheid policy that benefits Israeli companies. 

Indeed, the latter benefit from Israeli state policy based on the exploitation of Palestinian labor, the occupation of lands confiscated and discriminatory access to water.

Finally, after meeting a delagation from BDS, Migros has expressed an openness on the issue of lack of transparency of the labeling of products from the Occupied Palestinian Territories (OPT), currently sold as "Made in Israel"

I think you playing it a bit fast and loose with the term Apartheid, to insinuate that the Palestinian issues are a result of Israeli racism, rather then the fact that Palestinian resistance movements have deliberately targeted Israeli citizens,  is a straw man argument at best.  I also think a boycott is a rediculous idea as many of the products Israel exports actually employ Palestinians.  Why not instead of making posts like this from the safety of Switzerland you go to Gaza and start a grass roots movement there? I suggest non-violent civil disobedience.  We know from history that this works. 

@Bob:

Agree with you 100%, well put.

Sadly my take is that Salem is not here to debate facts & views, and is not open to any other point of views. He's here to spread propaganda, that's it. 

Have a great weekend.

Hey guys,

Really interesting post. I think it's great to have open and frank conversations about this topic so thanks for starting it Salem. 

I don't think it's fair to accuse Salem of propaganda. That's an intellectually lazy way of dismissing someone's views as being invalid. Whether or not one agrees with the boycott what one cannot dismiss is the fact that Israel is stealing land that doesn't belong to it - no argument there right? We can't all move to Gaza. But boycotting food produced on stolen land is a reasonable and non-violent way to express our feelings of solidarity with the Palestinian people. 

Here is a recent op-ed article by Peter Beinart, calling for a boycott of products made in West Bank settlements. The opinion piece addresses many of the issues raised throughout this thread, including comparisons to apartheid.

"That Israel systematically oppresses West Bank Palestinians has been acknowledged even by the former Israeli prime ministers Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert, who have warned that Israel’s continued rule there could eventually lead to a South African-style apartheid system."

Here is the author's main argument for a boycott of these products:

"Instead, we should call the West Bank “nondemocratic Israel.” The phrase suggests that there are today two Israels: a flawed but genuine democracy within the green line and an ethnically-based nondemocracy beyond it. It counters efforts by Israel’s leaders to use the legitimacy of democratic Israel to legitimize the occupation and by Israel’s adversaries to use the illegitimacy of the occupation to delegitimize democratic Israel.

Having made that rhetorical distinction, American Jews should seek every opportunity to reinforce it. We should lobby to exclude settler-produced goods from America’s free-trade deal with Israel. We should push to end Internal Revenue Service policies that allow Americans to make tax-deductible gifts to settler charities. Every time an American newspaper calls Israel a democracy, we should urge it to include the caveat: only within the green line.

But a settlement boycott is not enough. It must be paired with an equally vigorous embrace of democratic Israel. We should spend money we’re not spending on settler goods on those produced within the green line. We should oppose efforts to divest from all Israeli companies with the same intensity with which we support efforts to divest from companies in the settlements: call it Zionist B.D.S."

By the way, there is a difference between the Israeli state, the current Israeli government, and the Israeli people. One can be against the policies of the Netanyahu government and still support Israelis and have Israeli and Jewish friends.

Here is the link to the Beinart op-ed:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/19/opinion/to-save-israel-boycott-the-settlements.html?pagewanted=all

While you like it or not our capaign to Boycott Appartheid Israel will continue, your point that you employ Palestinians is derivation of the truth, you humiliate the Palestinains people.

We strive for a non-violent response to the IDF crimes over the years... 

I was also involved in sending the Irish ship to Gaza simply to send Sports equipment to the people there, and it was seized by the IDF.

Salem you have our support , many thanks to you and to those who understand what humanity is all about. knowing that I have many swiss friends who does know the truth

Salem you don't have our support because you're bringing half truths and refusing to see the rest.

Omar:

The truth you speak of is also that Hamas support suicide bombing of women and children, encourages Palestinian children to become Shahids in the war, and openly says it will only stop killing Israelis when all of Israel is in Hammas hands. Very humane.

I don't have anything against making an argument against Israel. But I don't support a 1 sided view that puts all the blame on Israel, ignoring who Israel is up against - Hamas - and what Hamas do.

here's what hamas says of Israel, America, and the world. 

Enjoy the humanity!

@mark spencer: dear mark, what does this video have to do with a boycott on food produced on stolen land?  

choosing not to buy a bag of potatoes is not the moral equivalent of blowing up a bus full of innocent people. Let's all get back to the original topic: to boycott or not to boycott. and please, keep contributing, i genuinely would like to know why you think boycotting is wrong in this situation. You don't need to tell us Hamas is dangerous, that is a given and no one is arguing that point here. the floor is yours my friend...

Funny how a boycott on all Israeli products (culture, food, all kind of goods, inside and outside Israel) becomes a boycott on food produced on stolen land.

@ Casuistik: The problem is the labelling of products is dishonest. Folks producing fruit and veg on stolen land know only too well there are many of us who won't to buy their harvest if we know it comes from farms established on stolen land.  So until the labels are sorted out(telling us exactly where the food was produced) I will continue to boycott those food products labelled as coming from Israel.  

Now, back to my question: how is posting a video of Hamas relevant to a decision not to buy a bag of potatoes produced on stolen land?

Sober up, my friend... and hit the right thread: this is NOT the thread dedicated to the pai's support groups wishing to label Israeli products made in the disputed territories.

I believe the purpose of the boycott is to damage the economy of Israel and to show support for the Palestinian cause.  Therefore when we see that the Palestinian people support Hamas as they voted them in to power (in Gaza).  And we understand that Hamas as a group has vowed to obliterate Israel. Hamas has launched thousands of rockets from population dense areas of Palestine in to population dense areas of Israeli. Resulting in the deaths of hundreds of people on both sides.   So yes we must consider the actions of the Palestinian people including Hamas before we decide to sanction Israel for their benefit. So that is why Hamas videos are relevant to a decision to not buy a bag of potatoesfrom Israel.     

Secondly I do not agree with the term "stolen land" to refer to Palestine.   As you know that region was divided up by the British empire. With the Arab population gettig the vast majority of the land.  When Israeli declared its independence foreign powers including Egypt, Jordan and Syria invaded the Palestinian territories and attacked Isreal.  Isreal defeated them.   The Arab forces were not able to destroy Isreal.  But they did maintain a military presence in the Palestinian area.  They did not offer to create a Palestinian state.  It was not until subsequent wars that Isreal managed to fully liberate palestine from the invading Arab armies.  Isreal has offered the Palestinians a state on numerous occasions.  The palatinians refused. Isreal stole nothing.

Hi Shaun.

What do you mean by 'I am Anti the Zionist State of Israel'.

Does that mean you object to some / all of the policies & behaviors implemented by the current Israeli government, or you are opposed to the idea of an Israeli state?

Thanks,

Oded

Thanks Shaun,

The question was my attempt to understand your statement.

I'm not going to try to argue with you here, but I would suggest to you that this issue is much more complex than you make it out to be.

Both sides have made, and continue to make, a ton of mistakes and I don't think that blanket 'these guys are good and those guys are bad' statements / ideas help bring about a solution.  On the contrary - I think that blanket statements just make people, on both sides, circle the wagons and defend things they may not beleive in 100%.

So again, without getting into the arguments, I would suggest that bringing up realistic solutions to the problems would be more helpful than trying to prove who's right and who's wrong.

Thanks

Oded

Shaun - you are indeed entitled to your conclusion, and I know you're as sure of your conclusion as people on the other side are of theirs.

My point is that this conclusion does not help bring about a solution.

Israel violates international law.  ok.  Point taken.
Hammas also violates international law. 

So what's a viable solution that both sides can live with?

Let me try to illustrate my point with a simplification:

2 guys are fighting, and after a while, guy # 1 gets guy # 2 in a headlock (these guys have a long history of fighting, and each of them distrusts & fears the other guy).  While guy # 2 is in the headlock, he's still thrashing around and yelling that, as soon as guy # 1 releases him, he's going to stab him in the heart.

A crowd gathers around and starts to shout their 'conclusions'.

Most of the conclusions are along the lines of 'guy # 1 is right' or 'guy # 2 is right'.

Guy # 1 says 'I can't let him go, cause if I do, he'll stab me in the heart.  He says so himself'.

Guy # 2 says 'I'm not willing to accept any pre-agreed terms.  If he lets me go, I'll stab him'.

Despite this, the people gathered around still insist on shouting their 'conclusions' (guys # 1 is right or Guy # 2 is right).

All of the conclusions are relevant and backed up by years of research, but they don't help the guys figure out a way in which they can stop fighting and still stay alive.

A biased over-simplification I know, but I'd still like to hear ways in which both sides can improve the situation wile still protecting their people and being able to live semi-normal lives.

Oded

David - let's pretend that we already spent a few hours going back and forth about who's fault is is and who's right or wrong.

How do both sides move forward?

What immediate steps would you suggest to end the conflict and create a feasible solution?

Oded

I thought I knew what you were going to say, but I was wrong.  This, for me, is a good example of what happens when people talk solutions instead of talking blame.

I don't think that removing the wall is feasible at this point because of security concerns, but I think that the 2 other steps you suggested are great. Seriously.

Would have been nice if you also suggested that Hammas stops bombing Israel and removes 'we aim to demolish Israel' from their official charter, but maybe that will come later.

Oded

Guys, its almost 6pm... Time to get off work... Lets see what that "Holy Land" has to offer...

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/27/world/middleeast/jewish-settlers-begin-evacuation-of-ulpana.html

"With Israel’s Supreme Court having ruled that five of Ulpana’s 14 multifamily buildings had to be removed by July 1, the government spent the past several months struggling to find a solution that would appease the settlers without enraging the international community. Last week, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu announced that he would not only add around 300 homes to Beit El but also 500 elsewhere in the West Bank and that he would try to relocate rather than demolish the Ulpana buildings in a feat of engineering the prospects of which are yet unclear.

So while the court ruling was seen as a victory for Palestinians and the Israeli left that advocates for them, Tuesday was hardly a celebration on either side. Many experts and advocates said the handling of Ulpana — and two other settlements on private land scheduled to be evacuated this summer, Migron and Givat Assaf — simply proved Mr. Netanyahu’s commitment to the settlement enterprise and made any future two-state solution less likely."

Then again, one can't blame everything on the Israelis, of course. The legendary corruption of the Palestinian Authority under Arafat -- as well as his successors -- essentially aided the rise of Hamas whose leaders know enough to feed, clothe and house ordinary Palestinians more effectively than the so-called mainstream Palestinian leaders. This is not to say I support Hamas but that they are providing basic forms of assistance that other are not.

Finally, many of the other Arab nations only pay lip service to aiding the Palestinian. I have cited in other threads the consistent manner in which monetary pledges for programs to aid Palestianian people and refugees from Arab nations are routinely made and then ignored. That says a great deal about lack of commitment of those nations.

@Manics: you're probably the only one who still believes this thread is just about boycotting Israeli food products.

The video showing Hammases' humane views (with pearls like "all non muslims must die") is in response to Omar, who implied that those who understand humanity should be anti-Israel. If I follow Omar's criteria of looking at humanity in the Israel vs Hammas issue, Hammas can't possibly score any lower.

Oh dear. With the mess they left behind, I'm not surprised that even Her Majesty's subjects get confused about the Palestine mandate. How about we hand over the whole shebang to the French and have a good laugh

The government of Israel is violating the international public law for decades. What can the international community do, so that the State of Israel finally respects the international public law?

For much less than that we've assited to invasions from the International community...

I am totally convinced that there is no soluation, I hate to say it, but thats the ugly truth. not to forget that Israel keeps on building settlements and they have nuclear wepons and the full support from USA.

Amir,

What I was saying is that the conflict will not end soon, its been already around 40 years and things are just getting worse day by day.

I am for sure against killing civil innocents people from both sides.

The boycott idea was not initiated by me, but I always support peaceful means to stop violence.

You have no right to say that my degree should be revaluated, and to address me in such aggressive, mean, and disrespectful way. Sorry for not being able to reply to you with the same impolite manners.

I guess you can use the (reply with qoute) in order to reply directly to someone post.

since mine was the last, I thought you are addressing my comment.

misunderstanding

Keep well

I deleted some posts that contained profanity, personal insults and threats.

Oded

Very much appreciate your post, finally a voice of reason, especially appreciated you pointing out that :

one cannot dismiss is the fact that Israel is stealing land that doesn't belong to it - no argument there right?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9YqW_YD-wM

The government of Israel is responsible for the killing of thousands of Palestinian civilians (shoot on women, kids...), after having stolen their land, confiscated their water supply, and reduced them to starvation... all this in complete violation of international public law. The international community needs now to put an end to these horrible crimes.

The only difference is I never see any products from any other middle eastern country in the Migro or Coop (maybe turkish figs ?).

If you want to read about the history of the Isreali-Palestinian saga (until the mid 1970ś)I suggest reading the thesis of Jean-Paul Pirlot (two volumes, about 1500 pages, and bound disgracefully by the HEI). You will find it in the library at the HEI here in Geneva. The documented deceit on the part of the Isrealis is appalling.

Dr. Pirlot was blocked from defending his thesis for 14 years due to the pro Isreal lobby. He finally won his right to defend his thesis in front of outside examiners and received his doctorate. The city of Geneva offered him a paltry 100 000 CHF in compensation due to the obstruction by the rector.

Several hunger strikes later, in the end this man committed suicide at La Treille near to the entrance where the politicians entered their chambers (his last politcal act).

I see a large number of intolerant bigots on both sides of the argument. Human rights and international law have been treated like toilet paper particularly by the US, Isrealś most important ally.

My personal point of view is that a state needs to protect the interests of all inhabitants and not favor a particular group based on religion, sex or race. After Auschwitz in 1948 we had the International Declaration of Human Rights. It is a wonderful document. I only wish more people would read it and promote it.

Thanks,

Gerold Rupprecht

Thanks for present some partial details, but you pointedly leave out the behavior of Isreal as per the exploitation of the airport near Ramallah or the blocking of fishing rights or the use of port facilities or the exploitation of natural gas off the coast of Gaza never mind the freedom of movement to begin a small list of noteworthy problematic behavior on the part of the Isreali state.

The Palestinians have obviously weighed the above considerations before calling for a boycott. I am quite sure they now which side their bread is buttered.

To try to understand your opponent you have to imagine walking in their moccassins.

Best regards,

Gerold Rupprecht

http://www.ipsc.ie/press-releases/teachers-union-of-ireland-calls-for-academic-boycott-of-israel-in-unanimous-vote-first-academic-union-in-europe-to-do-so

Hey, nothing is ever black or white ! Before critisicing, yelping about and using words like injustice, human rights, apartheid, and all the hoopla, I prefer seeing and experiencing things for myself ON THE SPOT.

Salem : have you actually LIVED in Israel to know what you're talking about ? And I mean ON BOTH SIDES ?

When will the government of Israel stop the genocide of Palentinian people, with the support of the US war department? Israeli government has been condemned many times by the UN for international public law and human rights violations, but they simple consider themselfs above any international law...  Horrible!!!

I am by no way a fan of Israel or Judaism, but Israel does not commit genocide against the Palestinian people. I do see Israel having a racist world view, but it is not the only country in that region with the same problem, not by any means...

Using the term genocide does denigrate the real genocides in our history, like what Germany did against the Jews and Roma, like Turkey did against the Armenians, like US did against its indigenous population and (among others) what happened in Ruanda and Kongo.

The "reality" is indeed horrible, but it's important to be realistic and face the truth.....

The systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS of human rights perpetrated by the Israeli occupying Power, in particular MASS KILLING and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY.

(Reference : United Nations resolution to Palestine  : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF/0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E)

The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories ILLEGAL under international law. The United Nations Security Council, the United Nations General Assembly, the International Committee of the Red Cross, the International Court of Justice and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention have ALL affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply.  But Israel maintains (?!?) that they are consistent with international law because it does not agree that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the territories occupied in the 1967 Six-Day War...

(for more details, one can read the mentionned references in this link :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements)

And finally : an interesting article summarizing the point of view of international lawyers, which concludes: "in this regard, Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon is what international lawyers call a genocidaire--one who has already committed genocide in the past" (Reference : Mr. Francis A. Boyle, Professor in International Law, linnk: http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=467_1184770243).

But maybe, the whole international community has "no clue of the reality"? Please inform them they are wrong....

@Amir Yes, lets put some facts straight:

1. The Six-Day-War was started (as in the first shots were fired) by Israel, not by the Arab states. Yes, please do check the history books.

2. You are saying, that the powerful has the right to take property from other people. By claiming that Israel has the right to keep the Golan heights, WB and Gaza, you still cling to a concept of the past (pre WW2). If you check your history books, you will see, that this in many cases is no basis for a peaceful resolution of conflicts. Plus, if Israel wants to keep WB and Gaza (and indications seem to show, that they don't want to keep Gaza), they ought to give those residents the same rights as its own citizens.

3. You write about genocide, but are as ignorant as Juan. You list genocides in "Syria, Egypt, Iraq, Iran, Lybia, Tunisia, Maly" but neither country has commited genocide in the recent past. You continue to bash Juan again by claiming "the real gencoides (sic) that are happening in most of the Arab countries". Can you show any proof or evidence of such genocides?

4. You also bash Ireland for not being academic enough. Hm, the Israeli universities do not rate that high in any of the ratings I checked. True, The Republic of Ireland hasn't got many great universities (it has after all, much less citizens than Israel), but Israel isn't the shining light you make it to be. Switzerland has about the same population than Israel, but its universities are higher ranked than the Israeli.

http://www.usnews.com/education/worlds-best-universities-rankings/top-400-universities-in-the-world

http://www.shanghairanking.com/ARWU2012.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academic_Ranking_of_World_Universities

So, if you keep bashing other people for the lack of knowledge but continue to make claims without the facts to back them up...

Interesting to see that the discussion still goes on. 

I have just read an article that Hamaz is slowely "talibanizing" the Gaza strip. Schools need to seperate boys and girls, Girls are not allowed to smoke a waterpipe anymore, are not allowed to ride on the back of a motor bike. Male barbers are not allowed anymore to cut the hair of woman, and so on. Sharia law is beeing implemented. 

Is that what you call freedom? I think it's going back to the stone age. Luckily the Palestinian Authority distances itself from this rubbish, but am afraid the same faith is awaiting Syria... The proplem is that these people have been democratically elected, but than abuse democracy to implement their own set of theocratic rules. 

There was a very interesting documentary on the subject not so long ago on the BBC. It showed the story from both sides. And both sides have various valid arguments, but also invalid arguements. What appeared is that Israel has a big problem. The normal common people - they want change, they want peace. But it's the hard core religious groups, who don't pay tax, don't go to military service etc.etc. who's growing. Ofcourse these people believe (like Hamas) that they own the truth. As longs as religious fanatics are involved, Israel, and the Palestinians will keep on suffering. 

It seems that the various "revolutions" in the area are not really going to help the situation with more hard line theocratic gouvernments in place. 

A difficult subject - as said earlier, with only loosers.

Hi Nathalie,

You are right to say that you have to see what's happening on the ground, that's a valid point.

I have no doubt that there are mixed opinions among people living in Israel..

We are not hating the new Israeli generation but we are only emphasising the that the IDF has commited too many crimes. Ever since the blockade started in 2007 Palestenians live evry day in extremly poor conditions and inhuman ways where Gaza is the most densley populated place on Earth 365Km2 for 1.4 million people (UNDP), have been denied continuously foreign aid from improving their livelihoods (Cement, medicine, basic necessities..)

We want evrybody to live in dignity!

Lastly, I want to add that Trinity College in Dublin is one of the oldest universities in Europe and was Founded in 1592, home of ''the Book of kells''
The Republic has contributed 4 Nobel Laureates in Literature,
That's more Nobel Laureates in Literature than Israel and Switzerland combined...

It shows how ignorant you are (Literature'lly)

Dear all,

When will the ISRAELI GOVERMENT stop the systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS rights perpetrated AGAINST PALESTINIA?

In particular MASS KILLING and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY? The United Nations has condemned Israel dozens of times (one can check this United Nations resolution : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF /0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E)

Morever, the international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories ILLEGAL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW (gross violation by Israel of the Fourth Geneva convention). In particular: 

-the United Nations Security Council,

-the United Nations General Assembly

-the International Committee of the Red Cross,

-the International Court of Justice,

and the High Contracting Parties to the Convention

have ALL affirmed that the Fourth Geneva Convention does apply...  But Israel maintains in a cynical way (not only incredible, but horrible!) that they are consistent with international law because it does not agree that the Fourth Geneva Convention applies to the territories occupied in the 1967 Six-Day War... So, no matters what the worlds says, Israel doesn't care about it, is "above international law" (for more details, one can read the mentionned references in this link :  http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law_and_Israeli_settlements)

So, what can be done to force the israeli government to respect the international consensus decision to stop violating the international law and crimes against humanity?

One you can read in the many dozens of the United Nations resolutions, for instance the one at this webpage : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF /0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E

I quote part of this UN resolution :  "Gravely concerned at the widespread, systematic and gross violations of human rights perpetrated by me Israeli occupying Power, in particular mass killings and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute war crimes, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and crimes against humanity,"

If you want, I can mention many other UN resolutions, condemning the Israeli government for gross violation of human rights ? 

I wanted to ad that I could give you more details "with pleasure"... but in this case, I would write "with horror" : it's a minimum of respect one can have for the decades of suffering of the Palestinian people, due to the attrocities made by the isrealy government, which has been condemned many times by the international community, but who consider themselves above any international law...

I am concerned about Israel violations of the international law... just to mention another recent violation: UN Security Council Resolution 1701 halted Israel's 2006 assault on Lebanon. Israel has violated Lebanon’s airspace daily since then. This week (May 2013), the United Nations peacekeeping force has again complained to Israel about violations of Lebanon airspace. 

But we know that the israeli governemnt doesn't care much about international law, or the dozens of UN resolutions...  acting as if they were above international law! Therefore, they continue to commit violations as they please...

Juan, Salem, Amir et al..

So far, you guys have been throwing statistics, rankings of universisties, company names and what have we more to each other.

Juan: What are you trying to prove with all these Un resolution numbers? please give me a freaking break. 
The only way this problem can solved - and I'm going to be highly controversial here - is if we stop the "poor people industry" 

All normal people want peace. All normal people want to get on with their life. Only people with their own agenda's - financial, theocratical, resourses or what ever - will disrupt the lifes of normal common people.

So I will turn it around here - all of you having a job with an NGO, and being in a way involved with the middle east issues, have in my opinion no interest in ending this issue, because it would simply mean the end of your living!

Having said that, it would be the most easy to attack Israel, because they are the guys with the money, and the power, so it is the other way around. the poor Palestinians against the big bad Israelies.

Sorry Juan - et all, but I havent seen any proof whilst extensively traveling trhought the middle east that certain groups want a solution. The only thing I heard was : let's roll the "jews" back into the sea where they came from. Really nothing different!. Thought the sounds I heard from Isreal is that people really want a solution. They want peace. But the moment these iditiots of Hamas fire an other rocket again - it breaks down carefull politics and plays into the hands of the extremist zionists. who are growing (see my earlier post). 

Now again - you can easily lean back here and say - these poor Palestinians. But - and I'm not going into history, but have you ever been, or lived in the middle east. I had the luck to live there for a year. And though some places look really nice - all people are oppressed. Bahrein, Kuweit, Iran, the UAE. They are dictators. they might be "ok" dictators, but so was Ghadaffi for his people the first plenty of years of his reighn. 

You all skip to easy over the fact that all of these countries are ruled by dictators, under a religion. and you can twist and turn it as much as you want. You can throw as much history, UN resolutions and quotes as you want. But - the middle east is in dire need of a "reformation". Without that - in MY PERSONAL OPINION - the only good place so far down there is Isreal. Even though it's doing so many things wrong. But... All of you, please do move to Saudi Arabia... Or Iran... All the best! 

Yes, with pleasure. For solidarity and respect of the palestinian people, who is suffering for decades due to the israeli government gross violations of human rights and war crimes, which continue nowadays... in complete violation of dozens of United Nations resolutions! Simply horrible

1. Your claim was that Israel was attacked in the Six Day war, when the actually attacked their neigbours. Your further points about former and later attacks does not validate the lie or misinformation you were giving with regard to the Six Day war.

2. You claim that "each time they have got free movements into Israel, they have abused it". This is an other lie or misinformation. I don't deny, that there have been terror attacks. but you claim that Arabs have attacked Israelis every time.

3. You claim that there are genocides going on in many Arab/Muslim countries. It is not up to you, to change the meaning of words. Genocide has a clear definition, it is the "deliberate and systematic destruction of a racial, political, or cultural group" according to Merriam Webbster. Please show examples of genocide in the countries you listed.

4. I didn't support a boycot, so that part of your argument is a strawman. The criterias of the rankings are given on the pages I linked. I feel no need ot repeat them here. 

Nobel Prizes are not a good measurement for excellence. Especially the Peace and the Literature Nobel Prizes are political. Why did Obama and Arafat get one and I doubt, that the majority of the Israeli Nobel Peace Prizes are justified.

The other Nobel Prizes are also often political and the way Nobel Prize winners are choosen, does not give me much trust in the selected. Why Jagadish Chandra Bose never got one is a scandal!

Then the list by religion is also bogus. Einstein for one is listed as Jewish, when he clearly was an Atheist and self-declared Agnostic.

Is there any religious Jew that got a scientific Nobel Prize?

Syria and Israel are still at war. True, in 1949 they made a cease fire agreement, but this has been broken several times by both sides.

So as they are de jure still at war, why should those airstrikes violate international war? They don't! They just do violate a bilateral agreement.

Israel’s aggression on Syrian sites were likely launched from Lebanon’s airspace, which the Jewish State violates on almost a daily basis, in complete violation of UN resolutions. Those attacks to Syria killed a number of civilians.”

Therefore, how can we remain silent over Israel's bombing of Syria?

Israel must stop using its aggressive policy but respect other countries’ sovereignty and comply with international resolutions... Nevetherless, Israel doesn't care about international law and UN resolution, and keep violation international law

Israel is still at war with Lebanon. Therefore, a violation of airspace is not a violation of international law. It is in violation of UNSC Resolution 1701 which both sides have regularly broken.

To this moment, there are no independant sources which confirm any numbers of casulties. All parties, the Israelis, Assad and the FSA have lied in the past and are not credible.

Even if we would accept the highest number of civilian casulties by the Israeli attacks, these would be nothing compared to those killed by Assad and the FSA. Again, I have no problem with critizising Israel. But comparing the numbers and to single out Israel in this conflict is, pardon my French, bullshit. It is as if you would arrest a jaywalker and ignore the serial killers.

Israeli government must stop violating the sovereigny of states (violation of air space), which is a violation of the principles  of the international law. Israel must also stop kiliing people as they have been done, in violation of dozens of UN resoutions

Juan, you seem to have little knowledge of sovereignty and international law. In a state of war, violation of borders are typical and not unlawful. A war ends with a peace treaty. Neither the wars between Israel and Lebanon or Syria have been ended by a peace treaty. Therfore those countries are still at war. A cease fire does not equate to a peace treaty and does not end a war, it just temporary end hostilities.

If Lebanon and Syria want peace with Israel, they have to sign a peace treaty like Egypt signed in 1979 and Jordan signed in 1994.

I am concerned about Israel violations of the international law, which keeps on going, for instance the recent violation of the United Nations UN Security Council Resolution 1701 which halted Israels 2006 assault on Lebanon...But Israel has violated Lebanon’s airspace daily since then. And this month (May 2013), the United Nations peacekeeping force has again complained to Israel about violations of Lebanon airspace. 

Juan, please show where Israel violates international law. Don't just repeat such claims without backing it up with facts. The UNSC Resolution 1701 and others UN Resolutions are not international law.

Again, I pointed to the fact, that Israel and Lebanon are in the state of war, which Lebanon as well as other Arab states started in 1948. Only Egypt and Jordan have ended this war with Israel in two seperate peace treaties. These two peace treaties have been upheld by Israel and Jordan and to a lesser degree by Egypt.

On the other hand, there have been numerous attacks over the Syrian and Lebanese borders towards Israel and numerous attacks by Israel into Lebanon and Syria. I haven't seen you complaining about those attacks perpertraded by Lebanese and Syrians.

Ignoring UN resolutions is not just a speciality of Israel, but does also not constitute breaking international law.

International law applies when there are problem between countries. The United Naitons have taken several resolutions condemning the numerous gross violations of human rights and war crimes from Israel, therefore one can speak about international law.

Israel fully violates international law, and consitutes a real danger in the region. It must be therefore stopped, and force to respect UN resolutions.

For much less than what israel is doing to its neighbours, countries have been invaded.

The Term "International Law" refers to treaty law made in and between sovereign states.

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_law

So UN resolutions are not international law, as Isreal (in our example) has not signed a treaty based on UNSCR 1701.

If you keep lecturing others about laws and resolutions, you should at least know, what each term means.

The international community considers the establishment of Israeli settlements in the Israeli-occupied territories ILLEGAL UNDER INTERNATIONAL LAW, and fully condemn the attrocities perpetrated by the Israeli government for decades

But maybe, the whole international community has no clue of what "international law" is ? Please inform them they are wrong....

I never said, that the settlements are not a violation of international law. Even though Israel has a different opinion, I see the settlements as a clear violation of internationl law, similiar as the situation of the Turkish invasion of Cyprus and its policy of ethnical cleansing and the invasion of Tibet by Chinese forces.

But, this still does not make the attacks by the Israelis in Syria, even if they violated Lebanese airspace violations of international law.

Now will you boycot also Turkish and Chinese products?

Israel represents a real threat in the region. And despite the international community condemnations, the Israeli government keep on violating United Nations resolutions, because they simple do not care about what the world and the United Nations thinks : simply horrible!

Furthermore Israel has weapons of mass destruction, and refuses to collaborate to the non-proliferation treaty, despite the international consensus asking israel to allow inspectors to visit its nuclear plants! In the meantime, the israeli government keep on violating humans rights and commiting war crimes in the region...

In the interest of the human being, and of the world, the international community must act now in order to stop this criminal government and its nuclear program, which represents the real threat to the region. For much less than that, countries have been invaded...

I am no fan of Israel, but it is not rational to claim that Israel is more a danger to its neighbours than the other way round. Israel has been more often attacked by its neighbours than Israel has attacked them.

Yes Israel has WMD, but I don't see them being used as an offensive weapon. The IDF has shown more than once, that it is far superior than its enemies even without using WMD or threatening to use them.

Israel, like any other country, has first and foremost its own interest and the interest of its citizens in mind.

You further claim that Israel commits war crimes. I don't see Israel commiting more war crimes than its neighbours. If I look at the last wars, it is rather the other way round.

I am a human being and I see no reason, neither for the world (do you mean the planet here?) nor the international community to stop Israel. Again, I am no fan of Israel, but combared with the other countries in that region, Israel is a saint. And I see no reasons for worse states to invade a bad state like Israel.

There are enough countries in that region, which have a far worse human rights situation, than Israel has (excluding the WB situation, maybe).

When will the government of Israel stop the attrocities done to Palentinian people, with the support of the US war department? Israeli government has been condemned too many times by the UN for violation of international public law, of human rights, and guilty of war crimes.

When will the israeli government stop those violations?When will they stop those attrocities? It represents a real threat to the region, which has last too long...

The US government, like any other government, will stop supporting Israel, when it is in their interest.

So either Palestinians do a better job then the Israelis in getting Pro-Palestine and not Pro-Israel politicians elected in the US or they show, that the Muslim countries can create better societies than the Jewish one.

Having a holy book which vilifies Jews, Atheists and Polytheists and murdering those opposing the Koran and Islam might not be a good policy in a world where Muslims are a minority and Christian-Jews, Atheists and Polytheists are a majority.

Loosing their main sources of income in a post-oil-peak world and murdering tourists, what does the Arab/Muslim world do have to offer to the rest of the world, except a surplus of uneducated bozos?

Back to your question? When will the world care more for Palestinians than for Israel? Based on the past? When hell freezes over.

Dear all,

When will the  criminal ISRAELI GOVERMENT stop the systematic and GROSS VIOLATIONS OF HUMAN RIGHTS rights perpetrated AGAINST PALESTINIA?

In particular MASS KILLING and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY? The United Nations has condemned Israel dozens of times (one can check this United Nations resolution : http://unispal.un.org/UNISPAL.NSF /0/16EC5D0CFAB45921852569AE00502C5E)

But the Israeli government doesn't give a damn about International law...and act as a criminal and terrorist state. It's time to stop this criminal government, in the name of the humanity

The David Pakman Show produced this video which is not exaclty the topic of this tread, but does make some good points which are important when talking about boycutting (sic!) Israel. I always thought, that Jews were not the only ones wanting to cut little boys, but Circumcision might be a topic for an other thread.

Salem wanted to convince us to boycott Israel. The wellknown, even brillant, Physicist Hawking has announced, that he would boycott a conference in Israel. The David Pakman Show makes a very good point, when he aks why Hawking's boycotts Israel, but had no problems going to China and Iran.

Now China, a country which he praised, is ruled by a one-party, psuedo-communist, pseudo-capitalist, which invaded Tibet and oppresses the indigious people. Iran is a country where even its citizens have less rights than the Palestinians on the WB.

I have no problem, when people bash Israel. But when they at the same time stay silent to other, bigger problems like China, Turkey and Iran as well as the atrocities in Arab countries like KSA, Syria and Egypt, I do wonder, what makes them so adamant about Israel. I do dislike the Jewish claims of being special, of being Gods own people, but I also dislike those singling out the Jews, claiming they were responsible for all the wrong as well as those claiming to be "Gods own country" or a "City on a Hill".

The criminal government of Israel is responsible for the killing of thousands of Palestinian civilians (shoot on women, kids...), after having stolen their land, confiscated their water supply, and reduced them to starvation... THE ISRAELI GOVERNMENT is responsible of war crimes, and CRIMES AGAINS HUMANITY all this in complete violation of international public law. The international community needs now to put an end NOW to these horrible crimes! :

And the west is supporting these people.... I'm confused.. very confused.

http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/05/16/us-syria-crisis-executions-idUSBRE94F0AM20130516

Just keep on moaning about Israel... there is so much more wrong on this planet...

Please show any proof, that "the west" is supporting the Al-Nusra-Front.

http://www.globalresearch.ca/america-is-loosing-its-covert-syria-war-us-sponsored-al-nusra-rebels-defeated-by-syrian-armed-forces/5334827

http://weaselzippers.us/2013/05/09/report-entire-free-syrian-army-unites-defecting-to-al-nusra-front-because-of-its-islamic-doctrine-and-advanced-weapons/

Though you have a good point - it might not be directly - my apologies for mis-representing the facts, but inderectly via the "offical rebels" weapons and resources for sure get these guys. but it's slightly off-topic... we need a seperate thread for the Syrian humanitarian disaster. 

Globalresearch is one of the worst news-site on the internet. Which says a lot...

In the article you linked, GR writes "Confirmed by CNN, the Al Nusra terrorists have also been trained in the use of chemical weapons by special forces on contract to the Pentagon:". As their source, they mention a CNN article which itself does not even mention Al Nusra.

I highly doubt, that any of the major western powers has supplied Al Nusra with equipment.

What is my view on Israel, do you ask?

Simply the same as the vast majority of the world : the government of Israel is violating the international public law for decades. What can the international community do, so that the State of Israel finally respects the international public law?

For much less than that we've assited to invasions from the International community... If it was not for the US war department veto, Israel would have cessed its war crimes and gross violations of international law...

Juan D, the parrot gene is strong in you. Instead on participating in a discussion by reacting to posts other people make, you just keep repeating the same diatribe over and over and over again.

"Israel bad, blah blah blah, USA bad, blah, blah, blah, Intrenational law, blah, blah, blah, war crimes, blah, blah"

I am in opposition of the way Israel treats the Palestinians, you just make us look bad.

RESPECTING fully THE SUBJECT of this thread "What are your views of Israel", well, I would like to give you mine :

It's a fact that hopefully the vast majority of the world population, as well as the UNITED NATIONS consensus, fully recognize and CONDEMNS the horrible gross HUMAN RIGHT VIOLATIONS and WAR CRIMES COMMITTED BY THE ISRAELI GOVERNT IN PALESTINE, who has an terrific and illegal policy of Apartheid and occupation.

Therefore, I would propose to join me the in the boycott, desinvestment and sanctions (BDS) against Israel, until the end of the Apartheid and the illegal occupation of Palestine. More information can be found in the following link :

http://www.bds-info.ch/fr

I do say Israel is behaving like America right now, both the countries are against islamic countries and more than that views can be handle but killing innocent people is not to be tolerated.

There are hundreds of new mosques in the USA in the recent history. Where are the new churches in Arab/Muslim countries? When USA is against Islam, why are they allowing so many Muslims to enter their country and live there?

Everyone has the right to their own opinion, but noone has the right to their own facts.

When we look at the facts, there is not an US led war against Islam/Arabs/Muslims, but it is the other way round.

The fact is that the US war department and the Israeli government are violating international law, invading islamic countries, killing people without previous trials, despite International condemnations, and... just for their oil: horrible... The US and the israeli government both act as terrorist states : they consider themselves above international law, violating the sovereignty of States.

There is a lack of coverage by the medias of the israeli goverment gross violations of human rights and war crimes..

The United Nations condems Israel for the gross violation of international law, but the majority of the medias don't speak much about that...

Dont' you think it strange??

Yes the Jews are controlling not only the banks, but also the news....

Sadly, I don't think you'll get, that that was meant as irony, so for the retarded ones, I'll have to spell it out.

So to your points, even though I know I will waste my time...

The "US war department" (sic) has been dispanded in 1948ish. The US DoD (Department of Defense) is not invading Islamic countries. You might be to stupid to know the meaning of the term invading. You also might be to stupid to know the difference of singular and plural.

After the withdrawal of US troops for Iraq in 2011, the US only have troops in Afghanistan. Those will be withdrawn next year.

You could have a point about the Israeli occupation of the Golan Heights, which are part of Syrian territory, but besides that, I don't know what you are talking about.

You also mention oil. There is no evidence, that A'stan (short for Afghanistan) has any oil nor that the war against Iraq had anything to do with oil. Again, you may have your own opinion, but the facts don't support it. Neither has the US control today of the oil in Iraq, nor has the US profited (financially) in any way from that war nor has oil been any point of interest in A'stan.

Besides some leftwingers and their new friends, radical Muslims, I hardly hear any "international condemnations" concerning drone strikes. The PotUS has made some great points in his speech yesterday, concerning risks and alternatives to drone strikes. One of his arguments was, that in such cases, when a SWAT team takes down a dangerous criminal or terrorist, there is also no "previous trial". An other alternative would be an invasion, where you would be one of the frist to bitch about, I guess.... Plus invasions would cause more harm to civilians than a drone strike or two.

A short point about sovereignty. Take Pakistan as an example. The lawful government of Pakistan does not hold sovereignty (meaning the supreme power) over all its territory, at least not de facto. As long as a state is not capable of controlling  its territory, like Pakistan, I don't think they have a right to claim sovereignty over those parts they don't control. Harbouring Osama bin Laden in Abbottabad under the eyes of the ISI and the PA does not help claims of their government to sovereignty.

The rest of your phlegm just continues to show your ignorance.

In regard of the international condemantion by the United Nations, the israeli government must stop violating the sovereigny of states (violation of air space), which is a violation of the principles of the international law. And Israel must also stop kiliing people as they have been done, in violation of dozens of United Nations resoutions

As I already told you (and you never denied) Israel is still at war with Syria and Lebanon. A war Israel did not start. So why should they have to respect the sovereignity of Syria and Lebanon, when both countries attacked Israel in an attempt to destroy the Jewish state?

As you know, Isrelis are mainly Jews, so why should they follow the Christian doctrine of turning the other cheek?

Please also site those other UN resolutions as well as the cases you believe they apply to which, according to you, is in violations of dozens of UN resolutions.

The criminal government of Israel icontinues to violate international law in the region, and is condemned by the UN for those violations.

The israeli government is responsible for the killing of thousands of Palestinian civilians (shoot on women, kids...), after having stolen their land, confiscated their water supply, and reduced them to starvation...

It's fully recognized by the world that the ISRAELI GOVERNMENT is responsible of war crimes, and CRIMES AGAINS HUMANITY all this in complete violation of international public law. The international community needs now to put an end NOW to these horrible crimes

Where are those starving Palestinians? An other bogus claim by Juan D.

Dear all,

In particular MASS KILLING and collective punishments, such as demolition of houses and closure of the Palestinian territories, measures which constitute WAR CRIMES, flagrant violations of international humanitarian law and CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY?

The United Nations has condemned Israel dozens of times, But the Israeli government doesn't care about International law...and act as a criminal and terrorist state.

It's time now to stop the criminal Israeli government, in the name of the humanity

http://blogs.jpost.com/content/israel-boycotters-are-world-their-own

just read..

Yes, I will.

For one single reason : the minimum of respect the people of Palestine desserve, suffering for decaded from the israeli government gross violations of human rights

hot potato as a topic

agree on the Palestine argument, but then again none of the other arabs are doing much to support their so called 'brother' suffering in Palestina.

i watched a film that was informative about this called 'o jerusalem'

also try the bbc documentary below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GFVozmiNxXY

about what can be done : If it was not for the US veto, complices of the israeli government crimes, Israel would have been forced long time ago to stop its gross violations of international human law and other mass killings in Palestine.

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4391533,00.html

Let's not go off topic here.

It is not USA, Syria or Pakistan that we are talking about.

We are talking about Israel here, Jerusalem is a sacred place for Christians, Jews and muslims.

If you ask Christians arabs all over the world they would tell you they cannot go and pray in Bethlehem in peace, do you think this is right?

Mass grave dicovered of dozens of palestinians in Jaffa earlier this month ? that is no fiction !

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2334205/Mass-grave-uncovered-containing-dozens-Palestinians-killed-1948-war-founded-Israel.html

What about this... Child soldiers?!?!? This is a gross violation of the universal rights of children. 

http://gigapica.geenstijl.nl/2013/06/hamas_summer_camp.html

Not a fan of Hamas nor Israel, I can't see any child soldiers in that pictures. At least not according to any legal definition.

I too shot guns before I was 16 and had martial art training. That does not make me a child soldier.

I do condem the religious indoctrination and the lack of trigger dicipline.

I normally agree with you fully, however :

- Did you intend to kill somebody with your gun training (having kids shooting  guns is a different discussion all together - other place :-) )

- Look at the last picture. That boy is not older than 18. Not sure (please correct me if I'm wrong) but that's not a martial arts training. These kids (that's what most of them are) - are being trained to kill people. Not sure what you did at that age, but this wasn't part of my holiday regime.... It has more to do with friends, beaches, girls and a lot of fun!

- I've said it before in my opinion everybody is wrong in that conflict, and everybody thinks they have right on their side. I'm just sometimes amazed that the Palestinians are always pictured as the "poor" victoms. Which they might be in some cases, but Hamas.....

@Martin I am a bit guilty of nitpicking.

- I shot round and silhouette targets. So not sure if there is a truthful and political correct answer to your question.

- My martial arts remark was to the second picture. I would have loved to do, what they showed on most of the pictures, but I was a stupid kid back then.

- I don't think that either Palestinians nor Israelis are solely victims nor culprits. I see neither party as interested in peace (which would mean sharing the land with equal rights). Israelis more or less got what they want, control over Erez Israel and they are willing to pay the price, even if this means loosing some own lives in attacks or wars. Palestinians feel rightfully forgotten by most of the world, as they don't mangage to create enough sympathy and have enough crazies like Hamas to shoot their own cause in the foot.

As an Atheist, I have no sympathy for Jewish claims that god promissed the land to them but of course Palestinians, esp. Hamas, don't have a very good track record for religious freedom. As much as I dislike Israel, I know, that I could live freely in Israel as an Atheist, but not in border controlled by Hamas and other fundies.

But still, I wouldn't call those kids child soldiers. Thats just the lawyer in me ;)

As the vast majority of the world population, I am shocked by the Israeli government war crimes, and the mass graves discovered of dozens of Palestinians earlier this month.

When will the UN decide to take some action against the criminal israeli goverment, responsible of war crimes, mass killing, and gross violations of international law? The Palestinian population has been suffering for decades of the criminal israeli regime, and the world condems it.

What can be done to stop the israeli criminal regime?

Haha Alan! I knew it! ;-) that you are a lawyer:-). But it's not good - because we agree. Perhaps it's time to bring up something controversial again. Love your debating style! But than again - it's part of your profession I guess. Thanks so much, it makes an educated and Interesting read! Martin

The people of the world, though the United Nations, expresses grave concerns about the criminal goverment of Israel, again this year in 2013, as many other dozens UN resolutions. But we all know the criminal Israeli regime doesn't give a damn about International law and continue its infamous crimes.

Source : http://www.un.org/ga/search/view_doc.asp?symbol=A/RES/67/121

(quote of this UN resolution expression the view of the world):

The United Nations Resolution (A/RES/67/121) of 14 January 2013 adopted by the General Assembly deeply condemns the Israeli practices affecting the human rights of the Palestinian people in the Occupied PalestinianTerritory, including East Jerusalem :


-"the continuing systematic violation of the human rights of the Palestinian people by Israel, the occupying Power,
-including that arising from the excessive use of force and military operations causing death and injury to Palestinian civilians, including children, women and non-violent, peaceful demonstrators;
 
-the arbitrary imprisonment and detention of Palestinians";

... (the list of these crimes is so long, I prefer to mention only a few of these violations...)

What can be done to stop the criminal israeli regime commiting these crimes against the people of Palestine, in complete violation of international law, and despite dozens of United Nations resolutions?

In fact, for much less violations than that, countries have been invaded..

Israel has violated every law UNO, but i did not see any reaction from this so-called organization. I think this organiztion is not exist in real. This organization works to give safe path to israel and some other countries.

Very interesting thread I must say. I am not going to add on another view as mine has been represented clearly already by another party. 

All I will say is, take a look at another big ole British Empire mess in my fair country. With a parent in the British Military as an Irish Catholic stationed in Northern Ireland, I can tell you we seen both sides of the fence and watched it petrol bombed. But here we are now 2013, and an area once famed for finding bodies is now hosting the G8 summit. NI is a testement to what can happen when people want it to happen. 

Israel and Palestine is a beautiful part of the world with beautiful people and unique history, some day, I hope maturity can be found to co exist without pain. 

The people of the world, though the United Nations, expresses grave concerns about the criminal goverment of Israel, again this year in 2013,

Dispite dozens of UN resolutions condemning teh gross international violation of internatinal law by the criminal israeli government, this regime continues to kill people, invade foreign territories, is responsible of groos violations of human rights.

The world is now mature, and condemns the israeli government for those crimes, taking place each single day, for decades, agains the people of Palestine.

Does the israeli regime wants to live in peace, when it continues its gross violations of international law, keep on killing Palestinian civilians for decades, etc.....

What is still more terrifying : the criminal israeli regime consider itself above international law, not respecting the United Nations resolutions.

Israel and America both are having complete control on United Nations. We cannot expect anything from UN because of their control and stong existance. A resolution is the only soultion for this injustice.

Sense, you don't make any...

Why are there so many resolutions against Israel, when according to you, Israel has a "complete control on (sic) United Nations"?

And shouldn't we expect a lot from an organisation with so much "control and strong existance"? What is strong existance? Are you trying to say, that the UN is made out of Dark Matter? Or is Arnold Schwarzenegger "strong existance" and Obama "weak sauce"?

And what kind of resolution as a soultion (sic) for this injustice are you talking about? If I hadn't seen your other posts, I would think you were witty and making some word-plays.

But let me end with the (nonexistant) Beatles Song: Resolution

You say you want a resolution
Well, you know, we all want to change the words
You tell me that it's intelligent design
Well, you know, we all want to change the words
But when you talk about discussions
Don't you know that you can count me in
Don't you know it's gonna be all night
All night, all night

Yes, you're right. When it refers to take action and the appropriate measures in order to prevent international law crimes by the israeli regime in Palestine, the US can oppose and block everything, using a totally anti-democratic tool called "the veto". In that way, the US has some control of the United Nations interventions.

After reading dozen of United Nations(UN) resolutions condemning the criminal government of Israel for gross violations of international law against the people of Palestine, one can see that surprisingly, and furthermores against the world's point of view, the US has been opposed to any United Nations intervention, using this "veto" anti-democratic tool to block everything. This is an authorization from the US to Israel to continue its crimes. Israel can continue to commit those crimes as long as the US allows thems to do so.

Everyday's violations of international law by the Israeli criminal regime against the people of Palestine could have been prevented by international intervention, which is exactly what the people of the world is asking.

What is still more terrifying : the criminal israeli regime consider itself above international law, not respecting the world's United Nations resolution asking it to stops its horrible crimes against the poeple of Paletine.

Look it is quite simple. America gives shelter to Israel, America is the super power of world which can oppsose anyone and support anyone. Israel just needs the support of america and america is delivering. In fact i do believe that Israel and America are different names but the purpose is same. Their purpose is to rule the world and thats what they are doing.

Yes, the Jews with their Lazer-Sharks controll the world with their Doberman USA and the Poodle UK.

It really must be a crazy place you live in. Where is this US control you are talking about? They got kicked out of Iraq, they are getting kicked out of Afghanistan and Kazakhstan and are loosing military and political power every day.

It is true, that they still do support Israel. But if the Arabs weren't putting Allah and Quran in front of education and development, they would have had 50 years to build a strong society and kick Israel and USA's ass.

Just look what South Korea could achieve without religion with only 50 million citizens. And their country suffered a great war and separation. The Arabs with all their wealth in oil would be able to wipe Israel off the map (and I am not advocating this at all) if they just would stop blaming other nations and quit their silly superstitions and educate and train their own people.

Yeah, but blaming Israel and the US is so much easier to do, than asking, what you can do to advance your society and then changing it. Praying to allah is as effective as praying to the Flying Spaghetti Monster, Ramen.

Exactly :)

Alan,

You are contradicting yourself by saying that you want to be respected as an ethiest and then you go and say something  disrespectful towards muslims and arab christians who pray to Allah. That's completely uncalled for.

In regards to the USA, there has been recent news in the media by formal NSA consultant Edward Snowden who admitted giving away classified information and revealed a huge telephone and internet traffic spying scandale. Can anybody deny that the USA dominates the world now?

I don't think I ever asked anyone to respect my Atheism. I used the term "live freely" which is not respect but tolerance.

I can tolerate the bad small that comes from a dogs ass, but I don't respect it.

I can tolerate silly beliefs, like those in homeopathy, but I don't have to respect those believing in homeopathy. Do you need more examples to understand the difference between respect and tolerance?

Even if you don't, do you really expect me to tolerate a religion based on a book which denigrates me as an Atheist? I am not that retarded, thats similiar to demanding a wife to respect her husband who nearly beats her to death on a regular basis.

So, the USA spy? I guess, there is a Chinese man eating rice. Nothing new under the sun. But still no evidence of global domination.

My remarks about Christians were not exclusive to Arab Christians. I just used the term allah as a placeholder for any god, could have used yahwe or Jesus instead.

One can only agree with you.

This person keep on denigrating groups of persons because of their religion, insulting in a totally unacceptable way the dignity of those people.

What is more shocking :it seems that for this so called user "Alan S", these denigrations are his basis to justify the horrible crimes against humanity perpetrated by the government of Israel against the people of Palestine .

Such comments on this forums made by this person hidding under the nickname of "Alan S" cannot be tolerated anymore in this forum, in the name of humanity and dignity of the people of the world.

Order
Basis of this forum calls for a boycott products made in Israel.
First. More than 60% of the factory workers over the green line are Palestinians, confiscation of factories but will direct harm  those Palestinians with work permits.
Two.Israel is one of the leading medical development. Boycott the soda streamer is just headlines. I want to see you in boycotting Israeli medical advances that help prevent pregnancy complications, helping seniors with Parkinson , and many other developments.

Last night fired six rockets at Israeli towns, more than two million people were at risk of missile attack on their homes. Imagine the security signal system operates at Geneva and laussane and you have 30 seconds to take cover.
The rockets were fired from Gaza populated area, more than a million and a half residents are now being introduced in the Gaza Strip by a terrorist organization elected democratically.

 apologizes on my lacking English.

It's a fact that the whole world, in many occasions and with dozen of United Nations resolutions,has condemned the israeli regime for international law gross violations happening for decades already. About what can be done to prevent the israeli government to continue it's crimes against the people of Palestine?

If it was not because of this totally undemocratic tool called the "veto" used by the US, complices with the horrible crimes perpetrated by the israeli regime, Israel would have been forced long time ago to stop its gross violations of international human law and other mass killings in Palestine.

Look we do not need to talk about religious views of christians and muslims. We are here for general chat. Do you think America has the authority to interfere in other countries affairs? Do you think if any country do not want development, large buildings etc, so America has right to destroy them? There own economy is not good, their citizens are facing recession and they are involved in other countries affairs. The simple and wise point is that they want to capture all resources of the whole world.

Just a point about religion. I did not denigrate people, just because they belong to a religion. It don't cast every member of a religion in the same pot. Every religion has a huge variety in what the members of said religion actually believe. I don't claim, that all religious people are stupid. Having 90 percent of all humans having some kind of supernatural beliefs and many of the remaining 10 percent atheists have also stupid ideas, calling say 95 percent of the world stupid, would make little sence. Even though I disagree strongly with Newtons's religious views, I still consider him to be a genius.

But to your point: Has the USA the authority to interfere in other countries affairs? To answer this question, I would really need to to define authority better. Then the second point would be are you talking about legal questions or morale questions?

The second question is easy to answer, but I also think is not really relevant. Does the USA have the right to destroy countries, just because they don't want to develop? No. I don't think this is relevant, as I don't think this has ever happened.

Then your comment about capturing all the ressourses of the world. I don't see the USA trying to capture all the ressourses of the world. You still seem to be living in a colonial mindset. If the USA would still be a colonial power, why would they have left Iraq? A colonial power would still stay in Iraq. I have no reason to believe, that the Invasion of Iraq had anything to do with the control over oil, as Saddam Hussein still sold oil to the USA, even under sanctions.

You are right. the US has not authority to violate other countries sovereigny, it's completely illegal and violates international law. The US is an hegemonic empire, invading and killing hundreds of thousands civilians all over the world.

The US is in bankrupcy, surviving only with bank loans from all over the world. So, they decide to steal other countries to control them, either economically, imposing to them their neo-colonialist economic approach, or simply stealing their ressources, for instance oil, or financing and supporting "Coup d'Etat" in order to put some regimes favorable the their cause, as it has done these years.

The US also support the Israeli state terrorism in the middle East,opposing the world's condemnation, through the United Nations, of the criminal israeli regime. The US uses Israel to reach their goals, Israel will only do what the US allows it to do.

Well i think it is difficult for anyone to answer first two questions. But your views about third question related to resources are half right and half wrong. You said that america left iraq even though iraq has large oil reserves. No i do not agree to you, look it is pretty simple to acquire oil after payment is not same as occupying all the resources of oil. If america is not there in iraq then it does not mean that now america has no concern with iraq and its oil. America is physically not there in iraq but america is controlling the system of iraq. America has tranparent power in iraq which is not visible.

@ hassel lee Lets try to tackle both points. You asked "Do you think America has the authority to interfere in other countries affairs?" so you should be able to define authority a bit better.

I do not deny, that "america has no concern with iraq and its oil". I would even go as far to say that Switzerland has a concern with iraq and its oil. So I am not sure, what point you are trying to make.

Plus I am no fan of conspiracy theories. Do you claim that the government of Iraq has no control over its ressources?

Majnoon: Shell (UK, NL) 45, Petronas (MY) 30, Iraq 25

Halfaya Field: China National (CN) 50, Total (FR) 50

West Qurna Field: Exxon (US), Lukoil (RU) Statoil (Norway), Eni (IT), China National (CN)

Rumaila oil field: BP (UK) China National (CN)

East Baghdad Field JAPEX (JP)

Yeah, clearly, you have all the facts. Only US companies working in Iraqi oilfields /sarcasm off

Lets get a bit back to the topic of this thread. Hassel Lee has been claiming that the US and Israel are controlling the world and the USA holds control of the Iraqi oil.

This is the conspiracy theory I was pointing to.

The facts do not support claims, that the US has (directly or over US oil companies) control over the ressources of Iraq.

Now you (shaun123) post an oppinion piece by Antonia Juhasz where she claims "Yes, the Iraq War was a war for oil, and it was a war with winners: Big Oil." She can have any opinion she likes, but she offers little facts to back up her opinion.

Your second link is a 2009 states the opposite: "Out of over 40 companies constellated in various consortia, only seven firms present at the auction were American and only one actually entered a bid."

So what are you (shaun123) claiming? Is the US controlling the oil in Iraq like Hassel Lee claimed or not (like I claim)?

Thanks for the clear explanation, based on fact and good references, as always.

It's a attrocity and gross crimes against humanity, all these hundreds of thousands Iraqi civilians victims... only because the US wanted to steal iraqi oil...

It does not matter that a country has some concerns about oil resources. What does matters is the action to acquire those resources.I am talking about actions or steps taken by american govt to capture those resources.Their actions are in front of everyone, i do not need to make conspiracy theories.

I think everyone wants to close his eyes and want to avoid criminal facts about these cruel nations. And remember these nations have strong political influence in the world and they better know how to get rid of difficult situations against them.

Again, Hassel Lee, you claim that the US has "acquire(d) those resources (sic)" even though I have shown you the companies from different countries who have contracts to extract the oil. And the US isn't even the biggest player, despite having a huge oil industry.

US companies do make a profit when they extract the oil, but that is still far away from acquiring it. The US still have to pay, if they want to import Iraqi oil.

The conspiracy theory is to claim that they have control of the oil and are taking it (for free) when in fact they have neither the control nor are stealing the oil.

@shaun123 I do agree with some points you make and disagree with others.

I am not saying, that oil is of no importance in geo politics. I just don't see the USA having control over the oil in Iran or Iraq. I don't deny, that they would like to, but liking and having are different things.

Besides this point, the control of oil in the Persian Gulf, I disagree that the USA only support dictators. Obama could have supported Mubarak against the Arab Spring, but he did not. The USA is less monolithic than most of its critics would admit. Sure, they support the KSA monarchy, but there aren't that many democratic alternatives.

Even though I am no fan of Israel, calling it a criminal state is obscene. Israel of course has a lot of faults, but an honest observer would use Israel as a benchmark, many if not all of the countries in that region, even on that continent would be found lacking. So if most Asian nations are worse than Israel, is it really fair to single out Israel? Turkey is occupying parts of Cypres, China is occupying Tibet, but I don't hear most critics of Israel calling those states criminal.

Then I strongly disagree that Iran is a "decent democracy" like you claim. Iran is a theocracy with a mit of democratic windowdressing thrown in the mix.

I would like Iran to be an ally of the West, but its regime is far from democratic and its people seem to think, that nothing good can come from an other uprising.

Clearly, Iran has a far different culture than Arab countries and I wish the Iranian people the best in overthrowing their theocratic dictators (without intervention by the US and Israel, just to be clear).

Good observation.

Israel is a criminal state and, despite dozens of United Nations resolutions condemning it, the israeli regime continues to violates international law every single day for decades. Israel is a real threat in the region.

As Israel doesn't care about international law and about United Nations condemnations, would military intervention be a solutions to stop the gross violations of international law by the criminal Israel regime?

Instead of filling  the forum with headlines, let's have a real proposal solution of the Israeli - Palestinian conflict.
If you have the possibility to visit Israel I strongly recommend.
See how ten minutes from Tel Aviv Arab villages are living in peace and dignity with Jews.
Show me one country in the Middle East that in the  government sit Arab women  except Israel.
99% of Israelis want Palestinian state alongside Israel. One condition and clear - recognizing the Jewish state.

in your solution refer to the west bank and to Gaza as wall.

Thanks for your comments.

It's true that the people of Israel wants to live in peace, as all the people of the world, nobody doubt about it.

As Israel doesn't care about international law and about the dozens of United Nations condemnations, causing thousands of dead, military intervention could be a good solutions to stop the gross violations of international law by the criminal Israel regime. For much less than that, countries have been invaded