Sorry guys,

Here is link

http://www.glocals.com/#/guides/biz/Point-Beaute

The cancellation isn't the issue. Elizabeth was willing to pay a cancellation fee.

The issue is how she was treated. Did Matina say "yes, really stupid, you're a stupid bitch, don't ever call again"? If so, Matina owes an apology. Alerting other Glocals members that Matina has issues controlling her temper is an appropriate use of the Guides. I don't have any sympathy for Matina's poor handling of this and certainly don't consider it "unjust bashing."

This is a hard call. I’ve never used Martina, I don’t know Elizabeth E nor any of the other reviewers. My comments come merely from the point of view of a potential customer.

I find it hard to believe the appointment Elizabeth E. scheduled ‘slipped’ her mind. Arranging my weekend to include a beauty appointment requires some focus, which would be elevated to anxiety if I happened to be stuck on the toilet all morning. But this is irrelevant. Elizabeth E. has already admitted error over this.

What’s really disturbing is the ‘you’re a stupid b-----’ comment. It’s so shocking I have to wonder if Martina really said it.  So I read on. Instead of addressing this statement, Martina refers to Elizabeth as a ‘worthless character’. Now I'm inclined to think Martina did make the abusive comment after all.

Apart from the disrespect and lack of compassion displayed between two people I’ve never met, as a potential customer, I have to stop and think about how Martina talks about her other clients. The impatient ones, the demanding ones, the clients with unusual body odour, the ones she’s not so fond of. Because getting a beauty treatment is a very personal thing. It requires exposing ones shortcomings.

It sounds like Martina is good at her job. Martina sounds like she takes her job seriously. But to be honest, using ‘stupid’, ‘bitch’ and ‘worthless’ to describe a customer makes me think twice about trusting her with my imperfections.

If she did, indeed, say that. 

Matina, not Martina....my apologies. 

Exactly right. And "the provider" gave herself a worse review by her own response to E.E. 

Sometimes clients are ill and forget to call. Good business people -- from every corner of the world -- suck it up and move on without wasting any more time.  

I don't know either of them, but I do agree that Elizabeth E should have called to cancel. But I have on a couple of occassions forgotten to call when I have made an appointment then fell because the only thing on your mind at the time is how bad you are feeling not what appointments you have today. I have even in the pass forgotten to call work, so it can happen.

As for Matina she did admit to yelling at Elizabeth and only the two of them knows what was said, so in order to know the truth then all she has to do is comment on whether she did call her names or not, after all she did start this thread.

And Reka1123, I am not sure whether you have shares in Matina business as you seem a staunch defender of her, but when people are angry they tend to say things they wouldn't normally say. So while you have always found her polite and nice, she even admitted herself that she was angry so angry. So the way I see it they were both in the wrong at some point and should probably just kiss and make up.... Life is to damn short to make enemies over one missed appointment.

So, Matina contact Elizabeth and get her to pay for the cancellation and put the whole thing down to one bad experience and move on.

Yes Elizabeth should have called. BUT, I really think that Europe in general is a wee behind in customer/sales services. I worked in customer services for a year and we were trained to ALWAYS say we were sorry, whether it was the client's fault or the company's. The customer is ALWAYS right...why, you may ask?

Because one unhappy customer will tell all her friends, all her family and word gets around. Even if it was the company's fault, we were still sympathetic and listened patiently and tried to make the best of the situation so the customer would go away feeling pleased or sorry for making a mistake. Even if Martina was in the right, she has lost a lot of face through bad press and I can bet you there will be many women who will not want to use her services.

If she had been trained in customer services she would have called Elizabeth and said, no problem, we can arrange another day for you when you are feeling better. And you know what? Elizabeth would have gone on to tell all her friends and family what an amazing person Martina was.

I got a bad review about a year ago. It has several inaccuracies which paint me in a bad light. I wanted to respond, but the only facility to do that is to post my own review on my own Guides page, which just seems wrong to me - how many stars should I give myself? 5? that's just padding the numbers. 3? What - no confidence in myself? Anyways.

I ended up addressing the issue privately, directly with the reviewer. I pointed out the errors and asked for a retraction or at least an update. We had a few messages back and forth. Ultimately, the reviewer refused to say anything more.

So be it.

At the time, that bad review was one of about 6 so it had a visible effect on my rating. But since then, I've received many more reviews, all positive. I think that's the best way to deal with a bad review - get more good reviews, don't air out dirty laundry.

People forget things in the best of circumstances. When I'm sick with a stomach bug, the *last* thing on my mind is an appointment for a luxury service. Most times, I will remember and I will call to cancel, but if I don't - well, I'm sorry. But, it's no reason to respond like that.

@Matina as you can see, I understand your situation, but you have handled this in a manner which does not help your cause. Your response is so full of vitriol and anger: "slave and bash", "oh, really? Next Saturday, at Xmas?", "little lecture", "scammed and bashed unjustly", "taking any BS from...worthless characters", "looting anyone?".

Did you really use the word "slave"? How did she enslave you? She didn't bash you. She posted an unfavorable review and the worst thing she said was that you had said something "insanely rude". This, a bashing hardly be.

Did you really compare her actions to looting? scamming? Hyperbole is not your friend.

Whether or not you actually said "yes, really stupid. you're a stupid bitch" is a "she said, she said" issue, although you admit you snapped. Based on the way you wrote your response, I believe you are capable of saying something like that. Not a good look.

But, what you both agree on is that you said "never call again." Why?! One client is much more than one client. Positive reviews, negative reviews, referrals, repeat business, etc. Who knows, maybe Elizabeth has a huge social circle and after her rescheduled appointment, you might have gotten not only her business, but 5, 10, 50 more clients, all thanks to her. But, now you not only don't have her business, but she will certainly not recommend you and has posted this unfavorable review.

You could have said "I'm sorry you were taken ill and unable to make your appointment today. Would you like to reschedule for next Saturday?" and also pointed out your official cancellation or no-show policy. In this scenario, you would have gotten paid for the no-show, you would have gotten business next week, you would *not* have gotten a bad review and who knows, maybe even gotten a good one.

If Elizabeth had made an appointment with you several times and cancelled each time and never paid and/or was difficult about paying, I would understand your response, but after just one missed appointment?!? You've just cut off your nose to spite your face, imho.

Would she have paid for the missed appointment? Who knows? But, with the way you've handled the situation, you can be sure that she won't.

@reka i'm glad that you are happy with Matina and have given her a good review. Clearly she's a good beautician and deserves it based on her work.

But, based on what EE said and the way she said it, I don't see why you are amazed at the bad review. She basically stated facts, which Matina does not dispute, and then says she was handled in a rude manner. What's so amazing about that?

"Even if it was the company's fault, we were still sympathetic[..]" - The costumer, you mean? Then it would be perfectly reasonable ;)

sorry, my mistake :) I meant even if it was the customer/client's fault, we were still meant to say "how terribly sorry we were for the unfortunate/unpleasant experience the client was having, etc, etc." Basically, ALWAYS keep the customer on your side!

Yes, I do think it matters. I don't think there is any excuse for rudeness and that includes being French. And if she really wants to refuse a client I'm sure she can do it politely.

When you provide a service its not just the quality of the service that counts, its the quality of the person who is providing it.

In any case, the two parties to this could perhaps have sorted it out in private..

1: Client forgets appointment -> client owes the full fee

2: Owner insults client -> owner effectively waives moral right to the fee

Who called who, or not, and when or not, and who said what, should have been kept private and certainly shouldn't have been put online, in my opinion.

Yes, everyone should be treated with respect, regardless of occupation.

What some of us find so shocking -- on so many occasions in this city -- is how poorly we are treated as customers/clients/buyers. 

The Guide can be one of the most useful services of Glocals. Elizabeth E was correct in reporting her experience although not necessarily verbatim.

It hurts to say, but Translator is spot on.  Liz E is entitled to her view.  All the supplier can do is counteract her comments with a response.

On a separate note, does your firm provide waxing for men?

The legendary "back, sack and crack"   I may complain, but I am sure the women won't

The service provider should not complain, since the customer is always right. 

aka "The Baseball Wax."  Bat, balls, and dugout.

...try the peeling cream , and the rasor...So much better.

You're just bitter that I didn't let you do it this time.

Don't worry, it'll grow out soon enough and you'll have your chance.

You spoil me...

anything for you, princess.  =)

Elizabeth stated that she would have paid the fee, but after she was abused, Matina lost all right to expect any payment. If she had handled it differently, maybe. But not the way she handled it - the phone call, this thread on glocals and her response on her Guides page.

*If* Elizabeth had any inclination to pay for her missed appointment, she should donate the amount due to a local charity, but Matina should not receive anything. I mean, why would I pay someone who yelled at me and treated me like that?

Hello Gals & Guys,

Firstly, I wish to thank you for participating to this entertaining thread.

Everyone has the right to his/her opinion, and I do not wish to discuss further this matter as I need my energy for day to day activities.

I have read all of your answers and accect your comments and criticisms as they do help having a better insight on myself and on my business.

However, I cannot to everyone in person, but let me give again my impression on this whole drama :

What I said firstly may not be the best for my business and I could or should have handled the whole matter in a different manner ... probably. BUT, like you I am just a human being with her qualities (too many to display here) and some faults. AND YES I have a bad temper when people toy with me. AND YES I have enough experience to know who is sending me up and who has a valid excuse for not honouring an appointment.

I always do my best to accomodate people as I know our time schedules are crazy. I adapt and I have accepted valid excuses more than I should have, without charging a cent; not because I am a poor fool but because I run this business on my own and I would rather keep a long-time relationship with any person I value, than just think "Oh you could not make it this time ? Never mind. You owe me so much an amount in chf".

Shit can happen and I can handle it.

However, if and when I will yell at someone and even use a bad name (Oh I am so not sorry you know) there is no way I will consider apologizing no matter what. I know who I am and my value, and so do my many faithful returning customers.

I find it very interesting that some people think a business person should always be on the customer's side, no matter what. Well, if I did that, all the scammers such as E.E. (am still waiting for payment proposal on her part, by the way) would pass the word around and would just be more than happy to use + abuse me.

I cannot affort this as I have numerous bills to pay.l I do not wish to follow this route because I enjoy what I am doing, I love the contact I have with my customers; I love my job and value too much all of the above to waste some time and effort on bugs.

Voilà :-)

By the way, I am not French, but Swiss...

PS: I do men waxing, including bikini. I use hot wax only so as to make the whole experience as tolerable as possible & I have many male customers appreciating this service.

Thanks again gals and guys for your time and responses.

Kindest regards to all,

Matina

"The customer is always right".... when the Swiss service providers learn this then it will improve the shopping experience in this wonderful country.

If a provider "swore" at a customer, and then publicly stated that she would "never apologise"...well that just confirms to me that its a business I don't need to visit.  I will be sure to search another provider for my "monobrow waxing custom" .

Matina. Just a tip...remember "the internet is forever" --- I hope your last post doesn't come back to haunt you.

Matina, I find your whole attitutde absoulutely amazing! First of all you say

"I have read all of your answers and accect your comments and criticisms as they do help having a better insight on myself and on my business." But it is clear that you haven't really listened/

Secondly you say 

"What I said firstly may not be the best for my business and I could or should have handled the whole matter in a different manner ... probably. BUT, like you I am just a human being with her qualities (too many to display here) and some faults. AND YES I have a bad temper when people toy with me. AND YES I have enough experience to know who is sending me up and who has a valid excuse for not honouring an appointment.

I always do my best to accomodate people as I know our time schedules are crazy. I adapt and I have accepted valid excuses more than I should have, without charging a cent; not because I am a poor fool but because I run this business on my own and I would rather keep a long-time relationship with any person I value, than just think "Oh you could not make it this time ? Never mind. You owe me so much an amount in chf"."

But the thing is even if you have a bad temper, you should still try to control when you are in a business enviroment. And how did you know her reason wasn't valid, are you phycic? And after admitting that you did yell and abuse her did you really think that she was going to pay you? because if you did, you really do live in La-La land.

To be quite honest you are not doing yourself any favours on here. Your rants have been unbelievable, you admitted that you abused her yet you still want payment, and you wanty us all to believe that you were the victim. I say forget about the money it's your business you should be worried about now.

"i do not wish to discuss further" followed by 455 words.

"i have a bad temper when people toy with me" you were not toyed with. a simple forgotten appointment, first time, due to illness. you could have gotten what you wanted during that phone call, but your approach clearly didn't work. and won't work. I'd be more inclined to say "you have a bad temper" full stop.

"i have enough experience to know who is sending me up" clearly you don't.

"i always do my best to accommodate people" no evidence of that here.

"i would rather keep a long-time relationship..." excellent. professional. laudable. so, why didn't you do that in this case? 

"shit can happen and i can handle it." apparently, you can't.

"i have accepted valid excuses...without charging a cent." so, what's different about this case? are you saying Elizabeth didn't have a valid excuse?

"...use a bad name (oh i am so not sorry you know) there is no way I will consider apologizing" oops. there goes that earlier professionalism out the window. you admit to using a bad name, you then say you stand by doing it, and say that under *no* circumstance would you apologize. yikes!

"...a business person should always be on the customer's side..." you misunderstand. it is *always* in the business person's best interest to *try* to make things work. go the extra mile. be accommodating. you make the client happy, you keep the client, you get a good review, you get more referrals. Simple Business 101. Dismissing a potential customer after *one* *small* *forgivable* mistake - not good business.

"all scammers such as EE" you clearly do not understand the meaning of the word scammer, because this is not an example of scamming.

"am still waiting for payment proposal" read closely. she *would have* paid for the missed appointment, until the moment you called her a bitch. All bets are off now and I hope you're not holding your breath. You're not going to get paid for last Saturday. (btw, you could have supplied your payment details in your response or even by PM. Until then, it's kinda difficult to make the payment, don'tcha think?)

"...pass the word around and would be happy to use + abuse me." do you prefer the word that's being passed around now? What's more interesting is how often you use words like "abuse"..... i'm no psychologist, but it seems you may be projecting.

"....as i have numerous bills to pay...." what? unlike the rest of us? but, again, had you kept your temper, been "accommodating" as you say, you would have been paid, which would have helped you pay your bills.

"...waste some time and effort on bugs." There you go again with the name calling. I'd really consider curtailing that part of your public discourse.

(back to an earlier part)

"...I adapt and have accepted valid excuses more than I should have..." perhaps this is the kernel of truth.... It seems in the past, this has happened not infrequently and you have not been paid and even though you said "no, no, it's ok, i'd rather keep you as a client", internally you were stewing, upset and thinking "damn, my bills!" So, this time, you exploded.

I do wish you success, Matina. You are in control. You could have turned Elizabeth into a client, a repeating client. I hope the next time this occurs, you handle it differently. And less publicly.

Who pays the salary of a private service provider? It's the client?!

Such a cruel beautician business... Scumming, bullying, lots of pain (hot waxing)... 

http://www.perfectapology.com/corporate-apologies.html

Q. With regard to apologizing to customers (both individually and public apologies) and to business partners, what are the keys to a good apology? On the other hand, what are the biggest mistakes that businesses can make when trying to apologize?

A. As for the apology itself, the guidelines for any perfect business apology include:

Timing is important when delivering an apology, but the first thing for many businesses to understand is that customer retention isn't built exclusively on satisfaction; it's built primarily on relationships—and like any successful relationship, respect and trust are fundamentally crucial. Respect and trust come from how we conduct and manage our daily business relationships, especially in difficult circumstances, and from the service businesses provide.

Unfortunately, our first instinct when faced with a customer complaint (or thousands in the case of Toyota) is to view the situation negatively, which is usually the last thing we should do. Instead, these 'crises' should almost always be viewed as an opportunity, a positive step towards customer retention. This is true not only for customers who voice these complaints but even more so for the many customers who experience a problem but don't complain. Many of them will still be looking to take their business elsewhere but won't provide a warning. As Bill Gates once said "Your most unhappy customers are your greatest source of learning".

Proactive apologies (in your words, OVER-apologizing) can actually be pivotal in customer retention by immediately addressing customers' concerns while earning their respect and trust. The primary elements of good business and corporate apologies that speak directly to customer loyalty are: ownership/responsibility for the mistake, some meaningful compensation/restitution, and an explanation of how the problem will be fixed to avoid any future recurrence.

Accepting full responsibility when apologizing for an error or inconvenience is key, followed by a clear, credible and quick solution, and then some form of restitution that lets the customer know they are valued.

The most important thing to keep in mind in terms of restitution is how it is perceived by the customer. This might translate into a dollar value or a more convenient way for your customer to patronize your business in the future. Either way, it's critical to know how the compensation is viewed by your customer. A customer who feels valued is more likely to translate those positive feelings into remaining a loyal customer and, more importantly will become an advocate for your business which, in turn, will have an ongoing positive impact on your bottom line.

The link is a very interesting article. Thank you.

Dear Matina,

Do you have an e-reminder&confirmation system? My dentist have it, so that it's very difficult to forget about an appointment, because you obtain an sms several hours before. It can help in establishing a long term relationship ;-) I tend to forget about things, however, this system works very well.

Best regards,

ES

OMG, I know this is supposed to be a serious discussion guys, but this has truly provided me with entertainment for the day. I’ve been laughing out loud in my office mainly out of sheer amazement (and not in a good way).

Best Quote from Matina:

By the way, I am not French, but Swiss...

"Service!"

(as I often hear in Switzerland, when there’s has been absolutely sweet FA service!)

PMSL!!!

Jason M, Lucy W, Amna a, Zonker, Translator (and all the others I thanked in this post for their common sense) were spot on –

I really hope Matina take’s note of what they have said because what she has written is unbelievable and indefensible.

Is it so hard to say sorry these days?

Ok, my apologies people who are on this thread, I realise I have not been thorough in what has happened this week-end, and since Zonker has had enough sympathy to detail my last post with his knowledge of customer service and person psychology, I will do my best - my anger has faded by now - to expose my viewpoint.

"i do not wish to discuss further" followed by 455 words.

I agree, I expect too much people to read my mind or understand my feelings, since this is not the 1st time I have been unfairly dumped. Also I am not a forum community person.

"i have a bad temper when people toy with me" you were not toyed with. a simple forgotten appointment, first time, due to illness. you could have gotten what you wanted during that phone call, but your approach clearly didn't work. and won't work. I'd be more inclined to say "you have a bad temper" full stop.

This was not a forgotten appointment, and it was not due to illness, because I had to call from a different phone from the business one in order to get an answer, which is not uncommon when people know they have dumped you, they will not pick the phone if they can see the caller's number. Besides, after having lost 1 hour of my precious time, yes my bad temper has builk OK.

"i have enough experience to know who is sending me up" clearly you don't.

Yes, I do, very easyly. When people give you flimsy excuses over the phone they hardly pretend anything, they do not care enough even to serve you a proper lie. They go like "ehr... I am not feeling well, I cancel the appointment, I will call some other time. In other words, it means I don't give a shit about you and my engagement towards you. As a business person, you know very well a spoken agreement has value as well. The fact that this people ignore this fact does not entitle them to send me packing at leisure. My time has a cost as with any other business. I do not count the times I have been hung up on the phone when I was simply making the enquiry "Why didn't you shop up to the appointment YOU have booked with me ?

Also, technically I could charge "missed" appointments. This would mean extra-work for me, a better reputation maybe ? I have doubts about that. So, I move on and BLACKLIST the person. Except this 1 time, I lost my temper, because my limit has probably been reached; yes, sorry to be just a person asking for a little respect.

"i always do my best to accommodate people" no evidence of that here.

Clearly not, same as above answer + this time I did not want because the response from E.E. - the poor victim - was just plain dishonest and mockery. However, I am not responsible for her words with me, so I therefore will not display them on the thread; but the attitude... I am not the only person I know who would have gone postal at her, poor little goodie, who screams without taking any risk. Ok, I calm down...

"i would rather keep a long-time relationship..." excellent. professional. laudable. so, why didn't you do that in this case?

Same as above + some customers I rather will not have at all, since they just waste time and nerve cells.

Now, if you some of the thread-readers think that a customer is the KING and it has all the rights, you therefore may think of the service provider as of a sort of slave. Sorry, but I cannot and will not accept this myself. I prefer "normal" peer to peer relationships; just a preference.

"shit can happen and i can handle it." apparently, you can't.

Well, thank you, I am just doing my best. Clearly this time I fuc... up a bit. At least a lot of people had a less boring we because of my complaining.

"i have accepted valid excuses...without charging a cent." so, what's different about this case? are you saying Elizabeth didn't have a valid excuse?

NO SHE DID NOT, unless you think "all" excuses as valid, which I do not.

"...use a bad name (oh i am so not sorry you know) there is no way I will consider apologizing" oops. there goes that earlier professionalism out the window. you admit to using a bad name, you then say you stand by doing it, and say that under *no* circumstance would you apologize. yikes!

Yikes, I answered that one as above comment. I learned a lesson, I should clearly not have done this, but words cannot be recaptured, so I move on.

"...a business person should always be on the customer's side..." you misunderstand. it is *always* in the business person's best interest to *try* to make things work. go the extra mile. be accommodating. you make the client happy, you keep the client, you get a good review, you get more referrals. Simple Business 101. Dismissing a potential customer after *one* *small* *forgivable* mistake - not good business.

I could not agree more with your statement. I totally understand it would have been in my best interest to remain normal, but.... Thanks anyway for sound advice. A little reminder cannot do harm, just the contrary.

"all scammers such as EE" you clearly do not understand the meaning of the word scammer, because this is not an example of scamming.

In my opinion it is the same as scamming since I am suffering a loss because of her and people like her are a plague to business; it is just difficult to avoid them altogether. Some hypocrites would pretend they LOVE and RAVE all their customers. Well, I prefer my customers chose me as well as I chose them, so to speak. As a 1 person business, you will understand that there is no way I can proceed differently.

"am still waiting for payment proposal" read closely. she *would have* paid for the missed appointment, until the moment you called her a bitch. All bets are off now and I hope you're not holding your breath. You're not going to get paid for last Saturday. (btw, you could have supplied your payment details in your response or even by PM. Until then, it's kinda difficult to make the payment, don'tcha think?)

No she would not have paid me anything, it is just another pretence to appear the goodie. Again, all scammers are equal, but you just have my word for it. What else can I say to justify myself ? It is from experience, as well as other peoples in this industry experience. I was kidding when I said I was still waiting for her asking about bank information; but there again I must apologize. This is obvious for people like me, not to everyone, so I am sorry I assumed you thought I was really expecting any form of payment.

"...pass the word around and would be happy to use + abuse me." do you prefer the word that's being passed around now? What's more interesting is how often you use words like "abuse"..... i'm no psychologist, but it seems you may be projecting.

Well, you are making a good point. I have a filfthy image now, but I had to fight back, that's all. Abuse is not the sole use of bad language, I am confident that some people realise this.

"....as i have numerous bills to pay...." what? unlike the rest of us? but, again, had you kept your temper, been "accommodating" as you say, you would have been paid, which would have helped you pay your bills.

Oh, come on now. This is so obvious that we all have to pay bills, I thought it would go without saying...

"...waste some time and effort on bugs." There you go again with the name calling. I'd really consider curtailing that part of your public discourse.

I do not know how other people call them in their own businesses, but I am pretty confident it is quite close.

(back to an earlier part)

"...I adapt and have accepted valid excuses more than I should have..." perhaps this is the kernel of truth.... It seems in the past, this has happened not infrequently and you have not been paid and even though you said "no, no, it's ok, i'd rather keep you as a client", internally you were stewing, upset and thinking "damn, my bills!" So, this time, you exploded.

This time I exploded because I had to, that's it ! But yes, I have learned from having been scammed, so much is true too.

I do wish you success, Matina. You are in control. You could have turned Elizabeth into a client, a repeating client. I hope the next time this occurs, you handle it differently. And less publicly.

I appreciate your advising and your valuable time onto this matter. I always will benefit greatly from respected and wise persons like you.

Besides, there will be no "next time" but my policies remain unchanged.

I hope you understand my view point.

Kind regards to all who have tried to understand and not just had a good laugh at my craziness.

I look forward to talking again in better circumstances this time.

Kindest regards,

Matina

All I can say is "I give up!", I am truly lost for words.

At least I know now, where to send my "ex wife"  so she can get some abuse. Shes crap at keeping appointments as well, so will be an excellent and guaranteed future victim for some Swiss verbals followed by some painful folicle extraction.

As to others here, sorry to say Matina, I doubt your thread has won you one single new customer... and probably lost you one or two... sometimes its better to keep ones mouth shut and fingers in ones pockets...

Internet huh???...pfffttt ... it'll make you or break you...

Oh, so your ex-wife also sucks at keeping apointments ?

Well, it seems I am not the only 1 not putting up with this then.

thats ONE of the reasons why shes my "ex"..... "service" was also poor..

Amen David :)

Matina, you really are not doing yourself any favours here. So far, there have been 764 views of your thread. How many of those viewers do you think will make appointments with you now?

If you really care about your reputation and business I would advise you to stop responding and just lie low now.

Nice one Charlie - in ridiculing Matina, yourself and your ex, you're keeping this post just at the level where it should be - i.e. Ridiculous.  (But I did laugh!)

Lucy - Matina has not listened to one single piece of advice so far and her latest verbal diahorrea slamming Zonker proves that she's definitely not lost for words though......waiting......waiting.....waiting.....

you know me... hardly ever serious when on Glocals. "self-ridicule" is one of my many talents, and im not scared of people laughing at my expense.

Back to the point in hand...I suspect that the original poster now rues the day she started this thread.

should change the name of it to "justly bashed", IMHO

(why I participate on a thread concerning "waxing" is another issue altogether.)

It was meant as a compliement BTW - Ridiculous AND Hilarious!  Not sure about justly or unjustly bashed, but it IS turning into a one-woman-self-flagellation-show!

....and here I thought one must fly to AMS to witness such a spectacle.

@matina

I don't want this to sound sarcastic, so if it does, I apologize in advance, but I'm honestly amazed at your ability to discern over the phone whether or not someone is sick and whether or not an excuse is flimsy/valid. People get sick. Period. When people are sick, many things including appointments might slip their mind. Period.

You mention having to call from a different phone number to get people to answer. Is this something that *you* do when you try to avoid a phone call? Frankly, I don't think anyone is afraid to talk to a beautician about a missed appointment.

I want to get back to the word "scam". Without being too pedantic, scams usually involve a way to get money from someone or get something for free. This is why I said you don't understand the word. You have not been scammed. Elizabeth got nothing (but an earful). You lost potential income, which is unfortunate, but you have not lost money that was already in your hand.

Which brings me to another question: do you think that Elizabeth (or anyone else for that matter, since apparently this has happened to you many times before) made an appointment with the express and deliberate intent of forgetting it? I may be off here, but I'm willing to bet that she's got much better things to do than plan and execute such a devious plan.

BLACKLIST - that's an option. but it seems to me a burnt bridge is really expensive to rebulid. again, with this particular client, something went wrong *one* time. And that's enough to blacklist her? I like to give someone the benefit of the doubt. Maybe it was just an honest mistake, misunderstanding. It *is* possible. And what have you got to lose? Seriously.

losing your temper is not a way to ask for respect. just sayin'

so far, you *are* the only person i know "who would have gone postal at her." i and others have mentioned several times other win-win scenarios. none of them involved going postal. that should never be an option. (btw, the US postal service is one of the best in the world and does not deserve to be a verb with that meaning. a few rotten apples 'n' all that.)

I'm frightened at your snap judgement regarding Elizabeth, whether she would have been a customer worth getting/retaining or not.

Many people have said "the customer is always right" but I hope you don't take it literally ("...think that a customer is the KING..."). It's a philosophy, more than anything, but in succinct terms: treat the customer well, no matter what the circumstances, and you will be rewarded many times over. Yes, sometimes it becomes clear (not after the first interaction, though!) that you and a customer are not right for each other. But even then, you thank them for their time, shake their hand while looking them straight in the eye, smile and open the door for them. You don't grab them by the scruff of the neck and toss 'em through the window.

words cannot be recaptured, it's true. But one can say I'm sorry. One can say *other* things that don't reiterate and reinforce what you said. So far, you have confirmed several times that you called Elizabeth a bitch and then you seemed to stand by your words or make excuses as to why it was justified. (It wasn't.)

you are right, your image in the eyes of many people on glocals is heavily tarnished, but I disagree with you about 'fighting back', just based on the words you choose. I would have opted for something like "set the record straight" or "tell my side of the story". But, fight you did, and like it or not, you've got the black eye. Even if you are 100% right, is it worth it?

i don't understand the whole "numerous bills to pay" bit. My comment was to point out how silly it was to say that, because you are not alone in having bills to pay. You wrote it as if you were a special case; I pointed out that you were not.

and again, you stand by your use of derogatory comments ("bugs"). No matter what names you call someone in private, when you have a bitch session with friends, etc. you NEVER use such language about a client in a public forum. NEVER. Not once, and certainly not repeatedly. with flourish.

anyway.....back to our regulary scheduled programming..... (damn! it's almost noon and i haven't seen Jon Stewart, Steve Colbert or Rachel Maddow.....) 

well, now I know why im here...waxing and flagelation... gosh this site just cant get any better.

Well said!

Will it be taken on board? No way!

"this is not a dating site...but if you need waxing and flagellation, you've come to the right place!" can sign-up fees be far behind?

FIGH FIGH FIGHT, Gosh Matina is my favourit dueller if not a beautician.

oh on a different note. Did anyone else get the stomach bug here ? Man it was hard. I even forgot my own name I only remeber the toilet seat's brand.

Thanks for sharing that with us at lunchtime! 

Luckily I haven't gotten the stomach bug here yet but can definitely relate.

Fortunately I'm blessed with a very strong stomach and have had very few problems while living, working, or travelling in developing countries.  However there have been a few incidents where I had food poisoning or stomach bugs--a truly miserable experience with a nasty fever, literal shaking, nausea, and no energy to move out of bed (or the bathroom).  It feels almost like you are on your deathbed.  In those circumstances I probably would have tried to call or SMS to cancel any appointments but my biggest concern at the time is my own survival.

Maybe you guys should start a new thread?!

True, this could merit a new thread, especially if there is a bug going around.  Although I did want to say I empathized with EE's (and also Farz's) condition.

No Amna, we are officialy hijacking the thread. This thread has been hijacked. ......

I also don't think she was expecting the new negative review: "I had my nails done here once and I was not really impressed. The nail polish came off within a day ! After the owner`s rants in the Forum I am definitely not going back."

Perhaps this was all just miscommunication, as in this video 

LOL, how do you find these?  reminds me of this one--an oldie but goodie: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3rJT5IpyAok

whoever said there is no such thing as bad publicity should be eating his words now i imagine....

way to make friends and influence people - not

let's not WAX lyrical... this is simply bad management practice

fact

LOL excellent

Lol!

This thread is in the wrong place (it's not a "Review of Member Activities") so we'll have to move it soon.

To add perspective from the site moderators' side: we don't remove reviews of places even if the owner claims the reviews are not justified, unless:

- the person who posted the review asks us to remove it

- the business owner is able to provide clear proof the review is not right.

It might be that a few reviews are wrong or even fake. As the Guide section grows and more reviews are posted, each single review will carry less weight, and a more correct "average" will emerge.

Until then we suggest to all business owners to encourage their clients to post reviews.

Nir

Ah, I was expecting this.....

And just to reiterate that the Guides are a very helpful resource! Thanks!

For these business reviews, I guess the owners have to learn to take the rough with the smooth.

it's a strip off the old block

a brazilian temper some may say

it's a plucking joke

stop being a twease....

learn from your mistakes or your customers will soon get the massage (elsewhere)

On some other websites where reviews are posted, the business is allowed a right to reply - in bad review cases this is usually an apology, or an explanation of why things went wrong and how the situation will be rectified.  Perhaps glocals could consider something similar for the Guides section?

Good idea. Although in this case the business did reply. And thats why we have this topic now.

Exactly right, this topic was created by the business and her comments and reactions have spoken volumes more than a few consumer remarks.

Wax on; wax OFF!

Now, where can I get my nails done?

Nir  - at the risk of playing Devil's Advocate - this thread is EXACTLY in the right place. 

The original "post" was in the wrong place (possibly - and should have been dealt with privately) and, you are right, this is NOT (sorry for the caps) a "Review of Member Activities". 

Its an open discussion about whether or not it should have gone public, whether or not the supplier should have posted the original complaint in an open forum in the first place, and all our opinions about this (right or wrong) as to how the situation has been dealt with.

As you so rightly say - the thread can be removed if "the person who posted the review asks us to remove it" - I doubt Elizabeth E will do that as she's probably laughing her knickers off right now (which will cost her a bit more for the next bikini wax, but hey!)....

Or "the business owner is able to provide clear proof the review is not right" - well, the "business owner" has shot herself in the foot so many times, I'm surprised she's still walking, never mind doing business or trying to prove that the review is "not right".

So lets encourage both suppliers and their clients to post reviews AND their opinions on an open forum such as this - if not for the entertainment value alone and, obviously, Translator's wonderful You Tube links.

Pretty please :-)

to all women:  would anyone pay someone a cancellation fee after being insulted by the profesional.

Emma,

I like the idea, thanks!

But when looking at big Review sites I can't find any who implement that system. Would you mind pointing me in the right direction so I see what it looks like on other sites?

Thanks,

Nir

@nir without trying to find another example, would it suffice to say what we would like to see?

i think that the provider should be able to 'respond' to a review. best would have it be somehow 'attached' to the review in question. second best would be to have it appear chronologically afterwards. A provider should be able to make comments at any time, but without any stars being attached.

just my $0.02.

I believe that eBay & PayPal offer exactly what Zonker described, to cater for challenging disputes/bad reviews.

I have been following this thread with a mixture of amusement and disbelief. As a small business owner I am also subject to many a cancellation, to the point where I book 25% more work than I need in order to protect my income.

A word of advice, TAKE PAYMENT IN ADVANCE! If your business involves single sales and it's not feasible to do this face to face, invest in a website with a payment facility. Save yourself a load of hassle, dispute and the need to abuse your ex-clients on a public forum.

@amy great ideas. my only comment is there is never a *need* to abuse your ex-clients on a public forum.

Nir,

Tripadvisor has such a system. It's a site that collects user-generated reviews. Managers of hotels/restaurants can also reply to user reviews.

As an example, I picked my favorite hotel (Sheraton in Bangkok) and looked through the reviews. You don't have to scroll down too much to see examples of the management team replying to users.

- Jouni

Nir -

yelp.com

http://www.allagents.co.uk/review/5060/

Judging by all that's gone on above, I would suggest that you only allow the business themselves to comment on individual reviews, not all and sundry!!!

a) It was the business owner's decision to air her grievances against the client review in the larger Glocals forum, amongst the waxed and unwaxed alike.

b) If you check the City Guide section you will see that one or two business owners have taken the opportunity to respond to a critique. Other business owners have provided updates under the same section.

c) While improvements can always be made, this thread was clearly atypical and it would be silly to assume that "all and sundry!!!" want to comment on every critique and response.

Upon reading all this fuss about the initial "public bashing" I am appalled.

Unfortunately for her, Martina proves her unprofessionalism in her public, nasty response to Elizabeth here for us all to see.

I've never seen anything so rude aired publically - very unwise.

All:

Thanks for the idea of allowing business owners to respond to reviews on the Guide, and for sharing specific examples of how best-in-class sites do that. 

We've added this to our future To Do list. There are a lot of earlier things we're working on tho. so it'll take a time for the "owners comments" to happen.

Nir

I actually don't agree that the business owner should always get the last word. If someone decides to give a business a bad review that's their right. It would be too easy for the business owner to come up with some kind of excuse.

I won't comment on this specific case because it's the owner's word against the client's. If Matina was rude to the client, then the bad review was deserved and she can learn from it. Even so the single bad review is in contract with the 3-4 very positive ones so anyone reading the reviews can make their mind up.It's also clear from the bad review that it wasn't about the service/product, but about the response the client got when she didn't show up.

Hi Nir

TripAdvisor has the system in place. 

22.12.2014 JUSTICE Une amende de 500.000 euros a été infligée à la filiale italienne du site américain TripAdvisor pour avoir dupé les internautes avec de faux commentaires... L'autorité italienne de contrôle de la concurrence a annoncé lundi avoir infligé une amende de 500.000 euros à TripAdvisor pour avoir fait croire aux consommateurs que les commentaires émanaient tous de touristes, alors que certains étaient postés par des professionnels. Saisie par plusieurs associations de consommateurs, l'Autorité garante de la concurrence et du marché (AGCM) a estimé que le site américain et sa filiale italienne n'étaient pas suffisamment honnêtes avec les internautes.

This thread dates from 2011.  Couldn’t we just let it lie in peace?

I have been unjustly emailed an alert for this post section. 

I want you people to know.