This is not what this forum is for, not to mention you are suggesting profiling.

All in all, I think it's a bad idea.

Both organizers and attendees have had problems here. We're adults, not petulant children. We deal with it.

If you're having difficulty with people who sign up, maybe you need to change how you organize events to prevent the problems from occurring. 

I'm with Zonker; it's a bad idea. I understand the frustration that Julian and other organizers experience when people don't show up, and I would recommend that anyone who organizes events regularly creates his/her own blacklist. But making it public goes much too far.

1. it's much too vulnerable to personal biases, i.e. if I don't like someone I could post him/her here with a negative review.

2. It's subjective. Someone may cancel the day before or call an hour before the event to say he/she can't make it. He/she could have a good reason for it (which is personal), but for some organizers may be enough to 'blacklist' him.

3, It tells only one side of the story. The organizer may have been unclear when/where the event was held, or done something else to confuse potential participants. He/she may have been unfriendly in their communication. A blacklist like the one suggested put all the power in the hands of organizer.

In short, bad idea.

I understand the desire for this.  I'm sympathetic.

But I agree that it's a bad idea for the reasons outlined above.  The process would very quickly become a toxic cesspool of malice and personal attacks.

Worse still, you are perpetuating a racial stereotype i.e. that black is bad and white is superior.

Go to art galleries, natural history museums, science fairs, the European Patent office, planetariums, literature societies, medical colleges, physics institutions and so on, and so on throughout the western world and you’ll be surprised just how much a contribution black people living in Africa have contributed to global culture over the last 2,000 years+.  

um, what?

um i think he was refering to blacklisting ... hmmm  Like you richard im against this kind of thing. I organise many events, sometimes people dont turn up for all kinds of  reasons, it doesnt matter that much. I have also not turned up to events in the past, stuff happens, i live with it, so do most of the organisers i know.

I organise events for fun, and entertainment, not for my ego :)

I, personally, am not on an ego-trip of any kind... I just make sure my w/ends count and am able to count on ppl when they sign up... or at least have the courtesy & common decency to remove themselves before the activity or msg me on the day (at least).  I don't think that is too much to ask for, but perhaps it is these days(??!)  :o)  JT.

julian, i do understand your concern, i do.

but......if you measure/gauge the quality of your weekends not based on the wonderful things you do and the wonderful people you do them with, but rather on the odd no-show or cancellation, then I submit that you are looking through the binoculars through the wrong end.

As we were all reminded in Forrest Gump, "Shit happens." Just roll with it and spend less time bitching about it. And if it's too much/too often, seeing as you can't change the behaviour of others, the only option you have is to change how you organize events or stop organizing all together.

Personally, I hope you choose the former, not the latter.

And smile.

If someone cancells last minute and contacts the organizer to be excused that is ok Edward. The problem is people that don't bother to do that. Or have excuses regularly. This is what we are trying to avoid.

And yes, organizers should have the power to invite to their activities whoever they feel like. Personally I don't want to invite to my events people who sign up and don't bother to cancell if they are no longer interested.

This message is to report that Konny Schade: http://www.glocals.com/members/member_profile/116688, joined one of my events and did not notify me he was not coming. He is in my grey list and I write this here to warn my fellow friends who organize events to be aware of the issue. I have send him an email asking for excuses if I don't get a reply he will be in my black list. Up to you what you want to do with this information.

Apologies to those who are very racist sensitive. I suggest you write your suggestions to English Language forums if you want to get rid of all the terms with "black" in it (black list, black mail, etc). A very good friend of mine is black, and very proud to be. He does not care how that adjective is used in other contexts. Do you?

So what do you suggest, Zonker?

I have changed the way I organize events to prevent the problems from occurring, as you suggeste: I have created a way to report the problem...so that it can be avoided :)

@ocio you are airing your laundry in public. If you have colored lists of people, that's great. But keep it to yourself. There is no reason to "Name and shame."

You said you have changed the way you organize events to prevent the problems from occurring, but you haven't. You've merely created a public outlet for your (petty) frustrations. As I said before, I still think it's a bad idea. I agree it's frustrating, but as I said above, we deal with it.

You are talking about an event that happened today with a woman (according to her profile, she's female) who just joined glocals in August and has signed up for only three events. Have you made contact with her to find out why she didn't show up or why she didn't call?

On your event, I did a quick scan. There is no phone number listed. There is a line that says "My number is available on my profile for my friends." But.... she's not in your network of friends, so is it safe to assume she doesn't have your phone number and therefore she couldn't actually call you?

All you have done is unfairly label a relatively new member of glocals.

I understand your frustration, but I really don't think your way of dealing with it is the most constructive. I also don't think it's what Ghandi would have done.

Guys,

I'm one of the co-founders of glocals.Thanks for taking part in this discussion.

We know no-shows are an issue. I do events myself, and know how frustrating it is when you plan on folks showing up and they don't. For some events, no-shows aren't a big problem (except causing some frustration). For other events, especially if places are scarce or reserved, no shows can be a real problem. 

We currently don't have a good technical solution for the no-shows, but we're hard at work on designing a solution that will track serial no-showers, and allow organizers to avoid them if they want. It will also allow organizers to mark their event with some indication of whether showing up is critical to the activity's success or not. With all the other work happening, this solution will not hit the site in 2012 tho.

Until we have such a solution in place, I'd ask the organizers to not post public no-show lists, for the reasons already posted on this thread. I do understand these lists could be useful to other organizers (and I am tempted myself many times to name and shame folks who don't show up to my events too), and if you want to send these lists to other organizers privatly, pls go ahead.

Thanks,

Nir

No Shows are just as frustrating as people who dont bother to rsvp for an event. I host a regular event on Saturdays, thats been continuous for every saturday for the last 3 years or more. It has become such a regular event that a lot of people no longer register there interest. They always know that there will be people there.

The effect of this is that some people are put off attending the event, especially the new members to whom it appears that the event is poorly attended, so they will not attend. I dont mind no shows unless it is an event with a limited amount of places.

As an organiser and attendee of regular events i can understand both sides. The more people who actually do rsvp the better the event appears to be. If only a few people rsvp then the event appears to be of little interest.  

I however do not agree with some of the suggestions above of Blacklisting people, all kinds of issues can arise from this. It would also cause a blacklisted person to feel publicly humiliated, which certainly does not aid either the organiser or the member.

Maybe as organisers had some kind of list we could refer to, so that we know a person who is a likely no show, and then be able to send them a mail to double check if they would appear. This avoids any public humiliation, and also lets the offending no show that they are on such a list. ?

Just my opinion. Ill continue to organise events as long as people show up, and support the event.

K

While cycling through town and being forced out of the bike lane because of doble parked cars I thought of _Zonkers comments on traffic and Julian's comments on the type of people who sign up.

I do not think anything has changed.  For those like me who were brought up in an age where calculators could only be afforded by offices and your friends were those you mwet through activities, other friends, chiurch, scouts youth clubs, we were shielded from the type of person Julian complains about. If we met them we took a dislike to them and there were no problems and no interaction

Now friends can be obtained, requested through facebook, glocals etc and if you post an event you are going to have people turn up or promise to turn up whom in a prefvious gnereation you would not have tolerated

So, in short, people have not changed. We are just exposed to them thanks to modern communication.

ack to reason for this thread. I can see a reason for those who organise similar events to advise each other of consisitent no showers but not on the glocals site where everybody can see it

So if an organiser of mountain hikes want to swap blacklists with me, contaft me by glocals mail

Paul, since you might appear to be running a private registry (pseudonyms are people, too), have you applied for a permit for this with the data protection authorities? ;)

As it is me and my not-showing up, it is only fair that I answer as well. I hope no one ever invents something like these "flags".

I had serious reasons not being there and owe no one explanations. I am not aware of costs related to my absence.

Usually, people and groups are relaxed and accept when people attend without notice or people are late, unprepared or absent. I think it is very bizzar to make this taht serious.

I do not know to what event your refer but the purpose of it is

1. If you say you are attending then you should give notice of cancellation

if not able to you should ast least apologise

2. If the organiser has additional costs because you did not turn up then you pay up.  It is not difficult unless you come from Yorkshire

Konny,

I'm not for the public flags either, but I fully understand why organizers get frustrated when people pull no-shows without notice.

Some organizers put a lot of effort into organizing the events, and in some cases places are planned / reserved. When folks pull a no-show it not only shows total disrespect to the organizer who put in the time, but you also might be messing up the activity for others.

What ever the reasons for not showing up, and I'm sure they're good, it helps to let the organizer know if you won't make it.

When you organize your own events I'm sure you'll find the same.

Nir

Sorry I fail to understand but maybe I am somewhat dim

1. What pseudonyms are you referring to? My blacklist contains only real names and they are not limited to glocals

2. If someone signs up for a hike of mine I have the right to grey list him or her (that means second time he/she is blacklisted and blacklisted people are put at the back of the queue.  If they are members of O£xygene74 or CAS they will be accepted at the last minute if places are free. If they are not members I will not even reply

What is wrong with this?

My blacklist by the way has less than 10 people in it

Dear All,

I've just read your posts to my forum, which was meant to be a list, not a discussion (I redirected everyone to Julian's forum for that), but nevertheless a very interesting discussion.

MY CONCLUSION:

We organizers need to know about who is "more likely" to let us down.

We participants need some privacy and have the right to make mistakes from time to time.

SOLUTION?

I will add the following lines to all my events:

<< Please note that if you sign in for this activity and you don't turn up, your behaviour will be reported. Your name will be in a private list labelled "?". To get your name off the "?" list, just email me to apologize. A suggestion to cover possible extra costs is apreciated. If your name is already published in that list then you will be move to a list labelled " :( ". These lists will be shared with other users who organize activities. Many of them (including myself) may not accept " :(" users. By registering in this event you give us rights to use these lists.

Disclaimer of responsability: You are personally responsible for yourself and your actions. Nobody else in the group including myself can be held responsible for anything you do under any circumstances. I am NOT a mountain guide a nanny or a guardian angel. I'm not spiderman either. By registering, you accept these facts and assume your own risks.

Thank you. >>

CopyLEFT 2012 * Alvaro (Alias OcioSano)

* This means that you can copy my lines too. Please change "spiderman" for another superhero/cartoon/famous character of your choice. Make your message funny your way.

I hope this satisfies the majority. I have tried to follow the suggestions indicating that organizers should "prevent the problems from occouring" but at the same time taking care of the legal issues due to responsabilities of showing information in a public place, data protection act, possible misunderstandings of some adjectives refering to colours and few other suggestions. Thank you for those.

If you are an organizer and you can help me select participants in the ":)" list, please email me your suggestions.

I have nobody in my "?" or ":(" lists. Konny (see above) emailed me to apology. and I removed her from the "?" list. She is more than welcome to join any of my activities and I've told her that.

Do I keep a record of the ":)" lists? Sure! Just click on any of my events. EVERYONE listed is in the ":)" list. People that come with a smile, with a thank you, people who make me think I am lucky to have the posibility of organizing events.... PEOPLE WHO MAKE IT ALL WORTH IT :)

Thank you,

Alvaro

Just a little note on Konny's post "I had serious reasons not being there and owe no one explanations". I interpret it as " I had personal reasons and do not need to explain them here in detail" I agree, Konny. You did not have to tell me what you did in your email, which by the way I keep confidential. But you do need an "I am sorry for not being able to go" or "I had personal problems, sorry" or one of the many things that you can (have to, if you want to be polite) say to a person who has spend some time and whose only reward is to make people enjoy an activity and who might think otherwise that you are just someone who does not care about his time or the fact that someone else could not attend the event because it was full. Hope this is clear.

@ocio since we've both communicated with Konny about her reasons for not showing up or contacting you, you also know that the delay before you posted may not have been enough. The activity started around 10:00am. You posted at 9:30pm, less than 12 hours later.

You didn't respond to my post above, specifically as to whether or not you contacted Konny before posting here. It seems like you didn't, but I'm not sure.

Perhaps, you should incorporate a two-tiered response. Before posting online or adding someone to your ? or :( list, contact that person. Give them a few days to respond. If no response or an unsatisfactory one, then yes, sure, make a mental note.

I still think sharing these lists is a bad idea. As much as you keep them private, inevitably, one day they will become public. And that will create a firestorm of discussion, debate, libel, he-said-she-said......

Just one more comment for now. You talked about the :) lists. You said "... people who make me think I am lucky to have the posibility of organizing events..." It seems you are pinning your happiness on the behavior/presence of others. I organize events because *I* want to do the activity. If I do it alone or if 20 people show up, I'm happy either way. Food for thought.

Zonker

Yes I have a list but I do not regard it as confidential. If someone organising a mpountain hike asks me about a certain person - capability or reliability. I reply. If booking a hut is involved with prepayment the organiser has a right to kn ow.  Bill, Ali and I regularly exchange onfo but then we arfe members of the same  club(s)- With a alvaro to a lesser extent   because he is based in Lausanne.

The lists are private and are personal but not confidential

@Ocio:

Your posts here and adding those lines to your future events, will probably have you end up at your events alone.Paul E is going in the same direction.

Having frustration is fully understandable when you put time and effort in organizing things and people don`t show. However, by what you post here, you lower yourself even below the level of those no-shows. 

"Please note that if you sign in for this activity and you don't turn up, your behaviour will be reported. Your name will be in a private list labelled "?". To get your name off the "?" list, just email me to apologize." WTF?!?

Rich

I think you summed it up very well and a good choice of video.

I have had two cancellations for my walk this weekend (not yet posted on glocals) each with a valid excuse and in plenty of time.

Thomas. I have absolutely no problem if I am the only person present as I love solo expeditions into the mountains.

At the moment I have too many people and so I can take a hard line and get my way.  In two or three years I will be on my own anyway as I am already much slower than I was 15 years ago. 

So I continue to organise on the basis of being a grumpy old man

I'm done with this nonsense. Closed groups? No thank you! I like the idea of open groups. Glocals is for people who come and live in Switzerland and might not know anybody. I have been in that situation and it is when you need to meet friends the most.

Ending up up my events alone? You could not be more wrong, sir. Check my events. I end up having more and more people comming. Hence why I want to avoid the no-shows-I-dont-care-about-others-not-being-able-to-go-if-event-is-full.

And no, I don't "pin" my happiness in other people attending the event. I would be also be quite happy going on my own. Which I do, from time to time. I am just happier with other people. Especially when they make me feel they are happy to attend my events. 

Paul on his own? Have you ever been to one of his events? I have. It was great to meet so many people in such a nice setting. If I lived in Geneva I would attend many more.

So. I am going to follow my suggestion as per my message above:

I will add the following lines to all my events:

<< Please note that if you sign in for this activity and you don't turn up, your behaviour will be reported. Your name will be in a private list labelled "?". To get your name off the "?" list, just email me to apologize. A suggestion to cover possible extra costs is apreciated. If your name is already published in that list then you will be move to a list labelled " :( ". These lists will be shared with other users who organize activities. Many of them (including myself) may not accept " :(" users. By registering in this event you give us rights to use these lists.

Disclaimer of responsability: You are personally responsible for yourself and your actions. Nobody else in the group including myself can be held responsible for anything you do under any circumstances. I am NOT a mountain guide a nanny or a guardian angel. I'm not spiderman either. By registering, you accept these facts and assume your own risks.

Thank you. >>

CopyLEFT 2012 * Alvaro (Alias OcioSano)

* This means that you can copy my lines too. Please change "spiderman" for another superhero/cartoon/famous character of your choice. Make your message funny your way.

I think that answer typifies what we as organisers have complained about. 'You owe no one explanations'

It could be that your excuse was genuine but that does not stop you from sending an apology to the organiser. If the reason was such that it was impossible to contact the organiser then a belated apology is standard decency in any society.

Fortunately you are in Lausanne, so you will not be signing up for anything I organise

And now it starts....

@Paul as it turns out, Konny *did* tell Ocio after the fact as soon as she was able. But, apparently the 6 hours that Ocia "waited" were not enough for him to continue this silly charade. In fairness, however, Ocio *did* remove Konny from his "?" list because they did communicate privately.

But, despite the fact that Konny is no longer on his list, it appears that, by spurious association, she is now on your grey list and you are relieved that she will not (likely) attend your events.

For god's sake, people, grow up and remember why we all came to glocals.....to find hot dates! (sorry, just had to add some levity.)

Okay, I've tightened up the disclaimer a bit. This should do the trick!

<< Please note that upon signing up to this event, I need a scanned notarized copy of your Permit B or C along with a utility bill no more than two months old proving your current address. If you sign up for this activity and you don't turn up, your behaviour will be reported. And that’s just for starters! A nationwide billboard campaign will be undertaken plastering your face and name in all four Swiss languages (and English for good measure) just so everyone in the country knows what an unreliable tosser you really are! There will also be regular TV spots on RTS 1 and 2 at primetime, radio adverts on WRS and Radio 1 echoing the same thing – you are a tosser! (All costs for these campaigns will naturally be borne by you!)

Your name will be in a private list labelled "Twat!". To get your name off the "Twat!" list, you have two options: (1) just email me to apologize along with a token item to demonstrate your repentance for your sins. This could be flowers, wine or a new TV. I am also considering implementing prima nocte but this is to be confirmed. You will also cover any costs borne by me at 10% interest compounded daily.

If your name is already published in that list then you will be move to a list labelled "You’ll wish your mother had a headache the night you were conceived!". These lists will be shared with other users who organize activities. Many of them (including myself) may not accept you "You’ll wish your mother had a headache the night you were conceived!" users. By registering in this event you give us rights to use these lists. No doubt after you have been fired from your job, shunned by the community and your families due to the shame you’ve bought upon them, you will end up alone, uncared for, unloved, sitting in your bedsit, drinking heavily, cockroaches running under your feet, with bailiffs hammering on your door, sobbing yourself to sleep every single night.

Disclaimer of responsibility: You are personally responsible for yourself and your actions. Nobody else in the group including myself can be held responsible for anything you do under any circumstances. I am NOT a mountain guide, a nanny or a guardian angel. I'm not Wonder Woman either. By registering, you accept these facts and assume your own risks – and may God have mercy on your soul.

Thank you.>>

Excellent

I think all that needs to be done is to enter this into the general terms and conditions of glocals in very small print somewhere in the middle of 60 pages of such terms and conditions and we are covered

Another small print insertion could state that whenever you sign on to any activity you automatically accept the terms and conditions of glocals.

These terms and conditions can be inspected at the offices of (give address) for a fee of CHF 100, such fees will be used to buy alcohol (or other pleasures) for organisers who feel let down and are depressed

I had not realised that she or he had been publicly named until I was told last night. My posting was therefore late but it specifically referrred to the tone of her/his email, not whether the excuse was valid or not

IN the words of the famous Zonker, "for gods sake people grow up"  :)

"Silly charade"? Now who hast to grop up, Zonker? This a forum where we try to improve things, right? I think if your view is different as a grown up you should respect mine.

It happens to be that thanks to my post quite a few people contacted each other. And now people are going to put more effort in presenting excuses when they don't show up. It is call good citizenship. We did that in the 20th century. Now it is call digital citizenship. So we send people an apology by email instead. No difference. 

Konny did contact me as I put in the post. But she forgot to clarify her own post. See my previous post: << "I had serious reasons not being there and owe no one explanations". I interpret it as " I had personal reasons and do not need to explain them here in detail" I agree, Konny. You did not have to tell me what you did in your email, which by the way I keep confidential. But you do need an "I am sorry for not being able to go" or "I had personal problems, sorry" or one of the many things that you can (have to, if you want to be polite) say to a person who has spend some time and whose only reward is to make people enjoy an activity and who might think otherwise that you are just someone who does not care about his time or the fact that someone else could not attend the event because it was full. Hope this is clear.>>

it is abundantly clear, that some of you obviously have issues that you feel the desparate need to air. Ok so this is an open forum and you are all entitled to your own opinions.

However this thread is now decending into the realms of the ridiculous, and becoming a farcical he said, she said syndrome.

It achieves nothing, not to the posters not to the readers, and certainly not to the forum. SO please organisers get over yourselves.. enjoy posting events, enjoy running them and really worry less about who doesnt attend and more about those that support your events. Shit happens.... GET OVER IT and move the F***k  on ...  pretty please :)

@ocio i call it a charade because you felt the need to name/shame (a new) someone after only 6 hours, without first trying to contact her and without answering some of the concerns / questions that others have raised, I among them.

I stand by my original post: this idea of lists is bad and doing it publicly is worse.

"I'm outtie. Here, tell these *** people something they don't know about me."

Wow 'been away about 5 years from this wonderful community and voilà, the point of publicly lynching those pests no-shows has been eventually reached?  

What a great step forward... towards the canyon

Apparently the "social etiquette" of attendees has also somewhat diluted in gloabl mediocrity. Shame! I got used to friendly and discreet "really sorry buddy, tied elsewhere but I'll make it up"... 

This being said organizers may use more "invasive" profiling for smaller events where number is really critical (i.e. cash advance is involved). Personally I have always overbooked by 50%. But again my events where... ah! never mind that's not the point here lol

This is the beginning of the end for Glocals. All those years when cynical armchair hit-men were allowed to hijack and abuse all friendly social interactions; when a small core of members thought it was their god-given right to snipe and abuse anyone with a different point of view, is now coming back to haunt Glocals. By allowing every topic to be swamped by either insults or crude-dating the overall level of respect between members has now hit rock bottom. The warning signs were there, but were ignored. I read a topic where someone was hitting open a crying fat girl at a party, and all that was said was “good luck, go get her...”.

It’s time to move on and start afresh. 

Hi guys,

We already asked that public No Shows lists not be posted and now you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

No Shows are a problem, publicaly naming them is not a solution we're considering or condoning.

Thanks

Oded

Everyone should try to practice courtesy and consideration for others.

That said, Ms Schade, perhaps the guy organizing this event really, really wanted to meet you and was absolutely crushed that you did not attend....

As an apology, you could provide Mr. Sano with Tweets as to your whereabouts...

Mr. Sano, I notice you have a Gandhi quote as your status...so I will note that he supposedly said, "An eye for an eye only ends up making the world blind."

well, technically that makes the world a cyclops..